A Reward System for Roleplaying--A request for peer review

[Sqwheelz64]

I've been employing a version of this reward system since DnD 3.0. Since I skipped version 4 and have just picked up DnD 5e, I'm looking for some experienced 5e players to peer review and give suggestions if you please. Thanks.

Karma Points

What are Karma Points? [KP]

Fifth Edition Dungeons and Dragons basically has two kinds of rewards: experience and loot (including wealth, property, lands, and magic items). While experience levels-up a character and loot expands their power and influence, Karma points are a third kind of reward for storytelling. These rules replace the Influence rules, but the Advantage/Disadvantage rules still remain active.


Players use Karma points to allow storytelling to supersede random dice rolls.

Poker chips are used to represent KP. Players should also keep a written record of their KP at all times.

Earning Karma Points
Each character begins play with 1 KP. The DM distributes additional KP rewards for roleplaying and play involvement. The following options are some of the ways that players can earn KP:

Character Backstory: Developing a character’s backstory earns KPs. After some sessions, the DM may offer the players writing prompts for small assignments for KPs that will help them develop their characters’ backstories.
Roleplaying: Excellent first or third-person roleplaying earns KPs especially playing to a character's flaws or weaknesses.
Heroic Character Decisions: Conducting heroic acts earns KPs; especially those acts demonstrating such personal qualities as sacrifice, loyalty, or accountability.
Contributions to Entertaining Play: Making play more enjoyable by adding humor, drama, tragedy, or mystery to the story earns KPs.

Maximum Karma Points: Characters can collect no more KPs than their current character level. Excess KPs earned while a character has maximum points are immediately lost. Karma points are intended to be spent not hoarded. The flow of KPs between the DM and players should be constant and fluid.

Spending Karma Points
Karma points can be used when a random die roll falls short of a player’s intent or need. When an unsatisfactory die roll occurs, the player should announce the expenditure of one or more KPs to the DM, and what is the desired outcome. Then, the DM accepts the player’s “karma poker chip” and changes the rolled die or adjudicates the player’s actions. Karma points can do more than alter dice rolls: they can provide specific advantages in play and make the DM’s assistance available. More than one KP may be spent towards a single outcome except where noted.

The Economy of Karma Points
Under this rules system, there may be instances when a player wants to gift a fellow player with some KPs, or the team wants to pool their KPs together for a group-related outcome. Gifting KPs to another player requires an additional payment to the DM for same number of KPs as the gift. For example, if one player wants to gift to another player with 2 KP, they would give the 2 KP gift to the other player and then pay an additional 2 KP to the DM for the cost of “being the other player’s lucky charm.” In instances of cooperative play, such as collaborative spell casting or a team tug-of-war, the players can petition the DM for a pooled use of KPs to positively influence the outcome and negotiate the specifics KP costs and outcomes. 

Improving die rolls with KP—

Initiative Action: 1 KP = The player chooses when they want to take combat initiative. This lasts until another initiative is rolled. Only 1 KP may be spent towards a single initiative action.
Extra Action: 2 KP = Gain one additional standard or move action during a turn. Only 2 KP may be spent towards an extra action in a single round.
D20 Skill Roll: 1-3 KP = Upgrade the result of a d20 roll by one degree of success/failure. For example, a fumble can be upgraded to just a failure, a failure can be upgraded to a success, or a success to a critical. In this example, 3 KP can change a fumble all the way up to a critical.
[Test for play balance] Critical Hits: 1-3 KP = The player can add a third set of damage dice to a critical roll. Another 2 KP can be spent in this way to add a fourth set of damage dice to a critical roll. A maximum of 3 KPs may be spent on a single critical hit.
Cumulative and Damage Dice Rolls: 1-2 KP = Maximize a die or dice roll intended to be added up. This only applies to rolls of d4, d6, d8, d10, and d12. Rolls of d20 and d100 are exempt. If the roll involves multiple dice, then a portion of those dice may be maximized based upon how many sides the die has. After rolling an unsatisfactory cumulative dice pool, the player should announce the use of a KP, and then change the lowest rolled dice to their highest values:
1-2 KP = Maximize 3d4 or 3d6. A maximum of 2 KPs can be spent in this manner.
1-2 KP = Maximize 2d8 or 2d10. A maximum of 2 KPs can be spent in this manner.
1-2 KP = Maximize 1d12. A maximum of 2 KPs can be spent in this manner.

For example, the party’s cleric with a WIS of 18 casts Cure Wounds (level 1 spell) with a 4th level slot to save the life of the party’s barbarian who needs at least 26 HP to survive. The rules allow the cleric to roll 4d8+WIS (4), and the player rolls a 2, 8, 1, and 5 = 16+4. Not satisfied with the result, the player announces the expenditure of 1 KP which allows the player to maximize 2d8, so the 2 and 1 rolls are maximized to 8; thus the roll becomes 8, 8, 8, and 5 = 29+4. Barbarian saved!

Gaining other benefits with KP—
Prepare to negotiate with the DM.

Insight: 1+ KP = Petition the DM for an out-of-story clue/hint for in-story mystery. The cost in KPs depends on the depth of the mystery. Clues/hints for deeper mysteries cost more KPs. If the DM feels that there is no revealing information to be gained, the karma point is not spent.
Recall: 2 KP = Reopen one spell slot or recall one special ability you have already cast or used. This only affects spells and abilities that can fully recharge after a long rest. Only 2 KP may be spent towards a recall once every 10 minutes of play.
Cheat Death: 2 KP = Cheat death. How this plays out is up to the DM and player to decide, but generally the character is left alive, [S]with negative hit points but stable but somehow inactive for the rest of the fight.
Special: ? KP = Petition the DM to allow an attempt at nearly anything that would normally be improbable. This includes the whole group of players pooling KP to improve a group outcome.

[oogaboogagoblin]

keep in mind that im just some random sleep deprived moron my opinion is in no way meaningful at all this is just my 2 cents

notes on the idea: ignoring balance for a second, this is a...problematic idea at heart (at least in my opinion) roleplaying should be its own reward, and while you might want to encourage people towards it its still their choice, for a roleplay heavy campaign then i can see this working, but then you don't really need it with the roleplay itself being the fun bit for the players, but i can still see that working. in a non roleplay centric campaign this could crash and burn, with some players ignoring it completely and others attempting to abuse it. the place i can see this working well is as a reason for a group of new players to rp more if they find it daunting, but if the dm has slight bias or if one player is better then the others then this could leave a bad taste in everyone's mouth. the idea of rewarding roleplay is a good one, but the best way to reward roleplay is in the roleplay, with some in universe reward (making a friend,impressing a noble, figuring out someone's motive, etc.) rather than in some real world points. dm bias could also very quickly screw this system over, if a dm likes a certain type of rp or character more the rest of the parties rp it could feel like they are targeting certain players. overall, i think the idea is a little unnecessary but i see where it could work

Balance notes: overall this is pretty well balanced, what i would do is make the crits more expensive because of how abusable a constant stream of crits is, as well as cheat death. id also give more abilities that arent straight die rolls like getting spell slots from it or even spells in general

[Anymage]

Two nitpicks. First, negative HP isn't a thing in 5e. Second, there's already Inspiration that attempts to do what you're describing.

Third, some of the options are bonkers strong. Recall in particular stands out for being able to get back any level of spell slot, when normal spell slot recovery mechanics cap out at 5th level. Getting back a high level spell slot or taking a whole second action should not be mechanically on par with maximizing 2d12.

Fourth. If we're going to try hacking inspiration to be like fate points, I'd want to try tying their spending as well as their earning to RP. Something like a cheat death is fine and sensible if you want your game to go that way. Asking the player to explain how the action ties to their character's ideal/bond/flaw means that the power up is tied to RP instead of just allowing you to charge up your point battery during quieter sessions.

[JLandan]

I don't think it's too overpowered, but it is incredibly complex. I suggest a great deal of simplification. My group used to play with Hero Points, which was not as complex as your system, but still was too much to keep track of. I recently installed a system that I call Inspiration Points. It's like Inspiration, but more mechanical, less arbitrary. It's purpose was to attempt to get more of the players at my table to role-play their characters. Some were of the my-human-champion-fighter-attacks-with-his-sword-and-has-no-opinion-on-what-the-party-is-currently-doing type. So, I came up with a mechanic to reward the use of their personalities, ideals, flaws and bonds developed in their backgrounds. It is somewhat whimsical because it was developed for a Witchlight campaign.

House Rule

Inspiration Points; No hero points. Instead a new mechanic will be used. Similar to hero points, one point adds a die to any d20 roll; attack, ability check, save, even death saves. A point may also be used to decrease an opponent's save. Multiple targets in an area effect require multiple points; not all targets need be reduced, the player may choose which are.
A character begins play with one point per starting level. A point is gained anytime a character exhibits behavior according to its personality traits, ideal, bond or flaw. The player decides if a point is warranted and gets one on approval from the DM. Abuse will be frowned upon. There is no limit to how many can be held.
The particular die used is variable. It begins at d6. Whenever a 1 is rolled, the die increases to the next die up; up to d12. When a maximum is rolled, the die decreases to the next die down, down to d4.
Only one point may be used per roll with the exception of multiple target save reductions, but multiple points can be used for different rolls in the same turn or round. Inspiration points can only be used to affect d20 die rolls. They are not used to stabilize or auto-succeed death saves.

[Sqwheelz64]

Thank you, all, for your detailed and thorough reviews. If I may address each of you in turn:

To: oogaboogagoblin

I appreciate your input while sleep deprived, and if your 2 cents is all you afford now, I’ll consider myself fortunate. I completely agree with you, roleplaying should be its own reward, but I’m biased because I’m a roleplaying-style player. I was a drama-twinkie in both high school and college, and acting in-character with other players is one of the pleasures I get from the game.

You are very correct about my bias, though. It is a major concern that I know I must constantly be aware of. I usually check the player’s KP counts on the half-hour during play and offer players with fewer KPs opportunities to earn more when I can. You are also correct about the system’s impact on newbies. When my previous play group switched to 3.5 edition, we lost two players, and one of the remaining players asked if his two adolescent kids could join. The kids really enjoyed getting poker chip rewards. I think they liked the tactile nature of the reward because they stopped playing around with dice and started playing around with the chips. Hence my mention of ‘no hoarding KPs.’

Your suggestions are appreciated. I do think improving criticals should be more limited, and I should introduce more ways to spend KP that don’t require dice rolling.

To: Anymage

Thank you, oh Great Wizard of…

I didn’t know negative HP rules were gone, so I just reread the rules on p. 197 of the PHB, thanks. However, I was aware of the Inspiration rules but found them only marginally able to accomplish what I want with KP.

After examining some of the powers that could be recalled, I very much agree with your assessment of the Recall rule. It will need some serious limitations to be playable and not broken.

I’m a bit confused about your fourth point. Are you suggesting that I might have KPs regenerate over time instead of being rewarded for roleplaying? Interesting…

To: JLandan

I appreciate and agree with your input. The KP rules system is complex, and IT IS quite powerful. Part of what I want this rules system to accomplish is provide a way for the unluckiest players to overcome their “constantly failing dice rolls.”

I mean this most sincerely. I have sat at some gaming tables where one or two players could not roll a success if their characters’ lives depended upon it [and sometimes it literally did]. In fact, I came up with the basics of the KP rules after one of my players in a 3rd edition game session broke down and bawled over her poor luck at dice. She had just spent six hours playing with a pretty cohesive group, trying to get the most out of her elven bard, but rarely rolling anything greater than a 1 or 2 on the dice. After that, I resolved to make a rules variant that would allow a player to take total control the story instead of the dice, and so the KP rules were born.

Now, JLandan, there is the other side of that coin. Some of the best gaming stories I tell are the times when I or a friend fumbled a skill roll and the hilarity that ensued, and, yes, that has happened more than once or twice to me.

I appreciate your Inspiration Points rules system. It is much simpler and quite effective at adequately rewarding the players without being overly powerful. There is one thing your system does that I tried to avoid with the KP system: I did not want to add additional dice rolling to the game mechanic.



Thank you for your reviews. This thread remains open for additional reviews and comments as of 2/25

[Anymage]

I’m a bit confused about your fourth point. Are you suggesting that I might have KPs regenerate over time instead of being rewarded for roleplaying? Interesting…

The thought wasn't about an innate natural regeneration, so much as that players might be inclined to farm up karma during low pressure sessions, in order to have a stockpile to spend during high pressure situations. Asking the player to justify why the roll they're spending karma on is important to their character means that spending the point is tied to RP as much as earning the point is. (Of course when it's a matter of literal life and death it's important, but anything short of immediate fatal consequences it might be worth asking how this is character relevant.)