Best ways to "live" forever?

[Hurnn]

I have been pondering what the "best" way to "live" forever as a D&D character would be.

So far I have:

Nested astral projections, become, a Lich, Vampire or Necropolitan.

They all have their flaws. Nested astral projection isn't easily available to all characters, and your astral projections still age. Lich is effectively un-killable as long as you hide your phylactery well, but the template its self is lack luster. Vampire is a much better template with one relatively easily mitigatable weakness, but is easier to kill permanently than a lich. Necropolitain's only advantage over the other 2 undead templates is the lack of LA.

Currently I'm leaning towards Vampire being the best option, but am looking for other opinions.

[loky1109]

Any timeless plane.

[Venger]

There are a wealth of options and you can either start immortal like an elan or warforged or dedicate your whole career to it with an epic destiny and pretty much anything in between. Immortality handbook (http://minmaxforum.com/index.php?topic=1179) has all the other ways in there.

[Rater202]

Be a ghost with 15 or more hit dice under a GM who doesn't use critical fumbles
In most cases, it’s difficult to destroy a ghost through simple combat: The "destroyed" spirit will often restore itself in 2d4 days. Even the most powerful spells are usually only temporary solutions. A ghost that would otherwise be destroyed returns to its old haunts with a successful level check (1d20 + ghost’s HD) against DC 16. As a rule, the only way to get rid of a ghost for sure is to determine the reason for its existence and set right whatever prevents it from resting in peace. The exact means varies with each spirit and may require a good deal of research.With 15+ hit dice, it becomes impossible for you to fail the roll.

And if your unfinished business is just that you're that pissed off that you can't live forever, then the only way to resolve that tether is to grant you an existance as a better form of immortality. I don't think one specifically exists though, otherwise, I'd suggest that instead.

It does have a higher La than a Lich, but it's also much easier to meet the qualifications of the Ghost template.

[Maat Mons]

My current character is on track for immortality via the Imperious Bloodline (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/sorcerer/bloodlines/bloodlines-from-paizo/imperious-bloodline-sorcerer-human/). Oh, but he's not a Sorcerer. That would be more limiting than I'd like. He's an Arcanist (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/hybrid-classes/arcanist/) with the Blood Arcanist (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/hybrid-classes/arcanist/archetypes/paizo-arcanist-archetypes/blood-arcanist) archetype.

If you're wondering why I'm not just playing a Wizard, it's because I don't subscribe to the interpretation that Immortality (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/wizard/arcane-discoveries/arcane-discoveries-paizo/immortality/) is anything more than a retroactive Timeless Body.

[Particle_Man]

A nature friendly way is to be part of a circle of mid level druids with a mutual reincarnation pact.

A pretty way is to get ten levels of green star adept. If something might threaten you just stand still and let them cart you off as a valuable statue, then sneak away later. :smallbiggrin:

[noob]

There is an option as an occultist to become an ai contained within the robot you want provided you can get it still for 8 hours.
The robot get all your abilities once you are an ai in control of it so you can restart that and have all your abilities and all the abilities of the robot within a new robot and thus stack all the abilities of all the robots you captured and made defenceless long enough.
So try to get more and more robots with abilities that make you tougher and you are golden until someone gets to immobilise you for 8 hours and use that ability on you or something.

[Jervis]

Easy answer is to gain a divine rank. Only way to get that mechanically is to get a arbitrarily high bonus to diplomacy and contact a appropriately powerful deity and ask them very nicely with a +150 bonus

[Doctor Despair]

Easy answer is to gain a divine rank. Only way to get that mechanically is to get a arbitrarily high bonus to diplomacy and contact a appropriately powerful deity and ask them very nicely with a +150 bonus

Music of the Gods can let epic bards fascinate and suggest deiti3s into parting with their divine ranks

Making an ice assassin of a deity is another mechanism to get divine ranks

Dragon Ascendant 10 gets quasi-deity status

[Jack_Simth]

I have been pondering what the "best" way to "live" forever as a D&D character would be.

So far I have:

Nested astral projections, become, a Lich, Vampire or Necropolitan.

They all have their flaws. Nested astral projection isn't easily available to all characters, and your astral projections still age. Lich is effectively un-killable as long as you hide your phylactery well, but the template its self is lack luster. Vampire is a much better template with one relatively easily mitigatable weakness, but is easier to kill permanently than a lich. Necropolitain's only advantage over the other 2 undead templates is the lack of LA.

Currently I'm leaning towards Vampire being the best option, but am looking for other opinions.

1) Find or create a timeless plane.
2) Ward it well.
3) Cast Astral projection from there (ideally via a pet nightmare or something, so you don't need to keep spending components).

No LA, no aging of your real body, come back from death much more quickly.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Do the aforementioned astral projection while storing your body on a timeless demiplane of your own creation, which is stored behind further defenses. Doesn't matter if your projected body ages, because your real body won't. Grab a constant protection from evil effect to protect against mind-control to prevent you from undoing your own defenses and an iron circlet of guarded souls (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/h-l/iron-circlet-of-guarded-souls/) to protect your soul from anything that could affect it (and take it off when casting astral projection), and you'll be decently good to go. You may also want to polymorph your body into a race that is immortal (such as elan), and if you're on a plane that's timeless with regards to magic, you won't have to worry about its duration expiring.

Or you could seek out or create a thought bottle, store your XP total in it, then undergo the rite to become elan for real, before restoring your XP total.

Or you could mind-swap with a warforged or a specially prepared riverine construct (such as a golem) with fast healing and regeneration (if you can swing it somehow).

Or you could mind-swap with the tarrasque. Its regeneration alone should ensure that it's impossible to kill you or for you to die by any other means.

Or you could polymorph into an illithid, take some levels in illithid savant, and eat a source of immortality (such as the above-mentioned tarrasque).

There are lots and lots and lots of ways to do such things.

[Jervis]

I disagree with the use of riverine, its indestructible until a dispel or disintegrate comes along.

[Crake]

Is everyone suggesting timeless planes forgetting that you still retroactively age when you leave a timeless plane? If you stay there long enough, it'll get to the point where, the moment you astral project off the plane, your astral body will crumble to ash every time.

[loky1109]

Is everyone suggesting timeless planes forgetting that you still retroactively age when you leave a timeless plane? If you stay there long enough, it'll get to the point where, the moment you astral project off the plane, your astral body will crumble to ash every time.
I see how that interpretation can work, but more likely "timeless" means "out of time", so while you are here you don't age, when you'll move out you'll strat from point when you stoped.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

I disagree with the use of riverine, its indestructible until a dispel or disintegrate comes along.Wall of force is immune to dispelling, and the disintegrate problem isn't one, since golems are immune to SR: Yes effects. Plus, there are lots of ways to make it a non-issue, what with it being a ray effect and all.

Seriously, you have to actually hit with it for it to work, and how many ways are there to deflect a ray effect or make yourself untargetable?

That, and you can just combine it with the astral projection from a demiplane thing to ensure you stay viable no matter what happens.


Is everyone suggesting timeless planes forgetting that you still retroactively age when you leave a timeless plane? If you stay there long enough, it'll get to the point where, the moment you astral project off the plane, your astral body will crumble to ash every time.I also suggested making yourself biologically immortal, in addition. That, and astrally projecting means never having to say you're sorry physically leave your demiplane regardless.

Also, acorn of far travel fixes it regardless.

[Kalkra]

Are you trying to be unkillable, or just ageless? Because if you don't want to age, just cast Steal Life from BoVD on something with every full moon. Any animal will be able to de-age you at least 6 weeks per casting, so you can set your age to be whatever you want.

[Jack_Simth]

Is everyone suggesting timeless planes forgetting that you still retroactively age when you leave a timeless plane? If you stay there long enough, it'll get to the point where, the moment you astral project off the plane, your astral body will crumble to ash every time.

If it's a problem in the campaign (and Spellcraft or Kn(the Planes) should tell you), then just include PaO and Steal Life in your plans. De-age yourself via a converted rock once a year, from on your demiplane.

[ShurikVch]

Currently I'm leaning towards Vampire being the best option, but am looking for other opinions.
Vampire isn't the best option - not because of sunlight vulnerability, or blood dependence, but because your PC wouldn't be able to enter private houses uninvited.
Wanted to search villain's lair while they're out? Sorry, no luck there!..

And anyway - if you want to make it as unkillable as possible - then any Undead isn't a best idea: 5th-level Hunter of the Dead is able to permakill any possible Undead: Vampires wouldn't be able to regenerate in their coffins, Liches wouldn't be restored by their phylacteries, Ghosts leave their "unfinished businesses" for somebody else to finish, Curst finally got their overdue rest, Bleakborns would stop drain heat from the surrounding environment, Beloved of Chemosh would be killed (despite being immune to anything else but direct DM fiat), or - heck - even Vecna himself would, by the RAW, stay dead...



If it's a problem in the campaign (and Spellcraft or Kn(the Planes) should tell you), then just include PaO and Steal Life in your plans. De-age yourself via a converted rock once a year, from on your demiplane.
In that case, the demiplane in question should have a moon and day/night cycle:

If the caster casts this spell on the night of a full moon, she becomes effectively one week younger for every point she drains.
(How timeless demiplane can have day/night cycle is beyond me...)

[icefractal]

Serial reincarnation is a good way to avoid the aging problem. You might still want to hole up in a secure demiplane to avoid non-age-related death, but by periodically reincarnating you won't crumble into dust if you have to leave it (including, say, by hostile use of Wishes).

Incidentally, hostile use of Wishes is a big problem in a high-op setting. "Regardless of local conditions" is a killer - it doesn't matter what kind of defenses your demiplane has, it can still be invaded. A possible answer (RAW unclear what happens) is filling up every bit of space with ghost-touch material so that there's literally no place for invaders to appear.

However, that still leaves the reverse - Wishing for you to be yanked out of your nice secure plane into the middle of a beatdown. It does have a save and SR, so Magic Immunity would protect you completely, high SR will block anyone without a correspondingly high CL, and a high Will save will partially block it (but nat1 is a still a problem, Pride domain or Moment of Perfect Mind would help). A Crafted Contingent Wish (or several) to put you back in the correct place could be an answer, but that assumes you can survive the instant of displacement - what if they Wish you into contact with a Sphere of Annihilation, or into a dead magic zone?

IIRC, the general rule is that you're aware when you successfully resist something via a save, so maybe the best defense is to seek and destroy anyone who starts trying this tactic on you.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

(How timeless demiplane can have day/night cycle is beyond me...)Most planes that are timeless aren't "without time." They only count as no time passing for certain functions, such as spell durations, biological aging, and certain biological functions (such as digestion, starvation, sleep, and exhaustion). Time still passes, but mostly just for consciousness and movement. So program the plane upon creation to brighten and darken at regular intervals, as well as to have a colder and wetter/warmer and dryer cycle to simulate day and year cycles. You can even simulate one or more moons going through phases, if you want.

[Endarire]

Does the spell hide life (Sor/Wiz9, Necromancy) from Tome & Blood work?

+1 to the notion that in D&D 3.5, timeless areas just suppress the effects of aging just like delay poison just suppresses the effects of poison.

[Jack_Simth]

Incidentally, hostile use of Wishes is a big problem in a high-op setting. "Regardless of local conditions" is a killer - it doesn't matter what kind of defenses your demiplane has, it can still be invaded. A possible answer (RAW unclear what happens) is filling up every bit of space with ghost-touch material so that there's literally no place for invaders to appear.Spellblade is a maybe, but it has the problem of "what about supernatural wishes" and "Does it work ONCE or unlimited times?"

However... there is a spell that explicitly blocks Wish Transport!
It's just really inconvenient to use: Imprisonment

Method:
1) Get:
a) an unknown 9th level casting minion under your thumb (we don't want it targeted).
b) A demiplane that's timeless with respect to magic.
c) A bypass for various material components.
2) Get on your demiplane, ward it up demiplane as best you're able. Including make it "full" so that there's no room for anything to exist there that's not already there.
3) Mind Blank yourself and your minion.
4) You (but not the minion) Astral Project out.
5) The minion casts Imprisonment (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/imprisonment.htm) on your in-stasis, empty body.
6) Minion fills the space you vacated.
7) Periodically, the minion checks to see if you've returned to your body (via Commune, perhaps; also checks if you've deaded by other means, imprisoned astrally, and so on). Once you've returned to your empty body (locked in stasis).
a) Minion clears up some space for you to exist.
b) Minion casts Freedom to get you back in the running.
c) GoTo 4.

Demiplane can't be found easily (it's full, all creatures on it are Mind Blanked).
Wish Transport doesn't retreive your real body (foiled by Imprisonment).
Mind Blank additionally foils the information disclosure normally associated with Wish Transport on someone suffering from Imprisonment.
When your astral form gets ganked, you end up in stasis until your next checkpoint.
At which point, you reset.

Thoughts?

[icefractal]

Seems pretty solid, unless they discover who the minion is. Mind Blank will help, but the problem is the existence of spells like Hypercognition and Commune which arguably do an end run around it. Still, if the minion is, say, a construct you create on said demiplane, and has literally never been seen by anyone else, there's a strong case to be made that even those wouldn't find the info.

Also, the minion could be a golem (using magic items to imprison/free you), in which case the magic immunity would prevent anyone using Wish to yoink them.

[Max Caysey]

I have been pondering what the "best" way to "live" forever as a D&D character would be.

So far I have:

Nested astral projections, become, a Lich, Vampire or Necropolitan.

They all have their flaws. Nested astral projection isn't easily available to all characters, and your astral projections still age. Lich is effectively un-killable as long as you hide your phylactery well, but the template its self is lack luster. Vampire is a much better template with one relatively easily mitigatable weakness, but is easier to kill permanently than a lich. Necropolitain's only advantage over the other 2 undead templates is the lack of LA.

Currently I'm leaning towards Vampire being the best option, but am looking for other opinions.

Use steal life on yourself while lying on a bed of restoration (Stronghold Builders Guidebook). That way you can reduce your age indefinitely! Its RAW, its cheap, and you dont have all the down sides of being undead!

[Maat Mons]

You could use Nybor's Psychic Imprint to create a duplicate of your mind inside an intelligent item.

[Crichton]

If you manage to make it to epic spellcasting, there's the fun option of casting Ioulaum's Longevity (or any custom epic spell variant you can concoct) every once in a while, coupled with a side-job as an industrial-scale mouse farmer or something. I mean, casting it on a tub of yogurt cultures could count for millions of years of lifespan, arguably, but you may need to use 'creatures' that have listed statblocks somewhere, to make it count for RAW.

[anamiac]

According to at least some of the lore, Medusas are supposed to be immortal. They were once human but made dark pacts with some nebulous evil. Anyway, become a medusa.

But you should probably figure out a way to prevent those pesky adventurers from chopping of your head and using it as a flesh to stone wand. It's all the rage these days.