Want to have a dragon hoard item scale up

[Darth Credence]

One of my players uses a rapier, and I would like them to have a good weapon that will grow with them as they reach higher and higher levels. I believe that I have found the ideal weapon - a Dragon's Wrath weapon from Fizban's (http://dnd5e.wikidot.com/wondrous-items:dragons-wrath-weapon). They have four levels - slumbering, stirring, wakened, and ascendant, and would perfectly go with what I am shooting for. I have a lore explanation for how the sword came to be, and why it is only slumbering right now (The sword was taken from an ancient black dragon a long time ago, and the person who took it died. A century, the heroes grave was robbed, and the legendary sword buried with him was recovered. Over the years, being away from a hoard or any use, it has become less powerful, but it has the capacity to be fully charged up again).

What I need is a way to make the sword 'level up', with some randomness involved but without it taking far too long or going far too quick. Right now, my best plan is that if they roll a natural 20, triggering the bonus damage on the weapon, they get to roll a d20 again, and on another nat 20, it goes up a step. The obvious flaw to that is that they could roll that in the first combat they have, or it could take them years to get there. Anyone have a better idea on what should trigger the increase, perhaps getting easier over time? (Now that I ask that, I wonder if I start with percentile dice, and lower the size of the die used at regular intervals.)

[DeTess]

I'd personally create a set of quests that the player can undertake to let the weapon go up a grade. It allows you to control the pacing of the rate at which it improves, while giving the player more reason to be invested in this weapon because of the adventures they undertook to improve it. The quests could in some way be tied into the sword's past, or be related to its properties (maybe have it involve hunting a dragon or two).

[Darth Credence]

I'd personally create a set of quests that the player can undertake to let the weapon go up a grade. It allows you to control the pacing of the rate at which it improves, while giving the player more reason to be invested in this weapon because of the adventures they undertook to improve it. The quests could in some way be tied into the sword's past, or be related to its properties (maybe have it involve hunting a dragon or two).

I agree with that in general, but I don't think I have time for it specifically. The player in question is not the type to pursue quests for themselves - I've used hooks for their background in the past, and they have ignored them. The other players all pursue their own quests, but he just doesn't. I would have to make the quests into something that the entire party would be interested in, and hope they take time out from the main quest to follow them.

I think I will create a couple of quests, though, and see if I can get the group to bite. If they do, problem solved, if not, then I'll work more on a random progression that doesn't require a quest.

[kaervaak]

A few ideas:

1. A repeatable half feat that awakens the weapon - basically, the player would have to make serious character progression decisions to power up their special weapon. Maybe too punishing, but you can also reward feats as rewards, so +1 to a stat and a bump in weapon power is pretty solid.

2. Just upgrade it when they get proficiency bonus boosts: Level 5 = slumbering, 9 = stirring, 13 = wakened, 17 = ascendent

3. Spend inspiration to power it up: ~3/5/7/9 inspiration points to bump it up a level. Rewards the player for doing cool stuff.

4. Specific conditions to awaken: example - a red dragon weapon would go from slumbering to stirring when it is immersed in lava, then from stirring to wakened when bathed in the breath weapon of an adult or older red dragon, then from wakened to ascendent when hit with an ancient red dragon's breath or plunged into some fiery thing in the elemental plane of fire, or something similar.

[Angelalex242]

I agree with that in general, but I don't think I have time for it specifically. The player in question is not the type to pursue quests for themselves - I've used hooks for their background in the past, and they have ignored them. The other players all pursue their own quests, but he just doesn't. I would have to make the quests into something that the entire party would be interested in, and hope they take time out from the main quest to follow them.

I think I will create a couple of quests, though, and see if I can get the group to bite. If they do, problem solved, if not, then I'll work more on a random progression that doesn't require a quest.

Not just quests, but quests for a dragon of the same type that's powering the weapon.

This presumes they have a metallic dragon weapon, not a chromatic weapon.

If it's a chromatic weapon, they have to kill the same dragon type as the weapon to power it up, at ever increasing age category.

[Dr.Samurai]

Do you need it to be in the player's control?

One idea is that the sword gains power as the dragon gets stronger. This way the DM has complete control over when it happens. But this would be completely behind the scenes and removed from the player so not sure if that's an option.

[Darth Credence]

A few ideas:

1. A repeatable half feat that awakens the weapon - basically, the player would have to make serious character progression decisions to power up their special weapon. Maybe too punishing, but you can also reward feats as rewards, so +1 to a stat and a bump in weapon power is pretty solid.

2. Just upgrade it when they get proficiency bonus boosts: Level 5 = slumbering, 9 = stirring, 13 = wakened, 17 = ascendent

3. Spend inspiration to power it up: ~3/5/7/9 inspiration points to bump it up a level. Rewards the player for doing cool stuff.

4. Specific conditions to awaken: example - a red dragon weapon would go from slumbering to stirring when it is immersed in lava, then from stirring to wakened when bathed in the breath weapon of an adult or older red dragon, then from wakened to ascendent when hit with an ancient red dragon's breath or plunged into some fiery thing in the elemental plane of fire, or something similar.
Hmm. All of these have potential, but I like 3 and 4 the best. 3 would work out well if I lay out for them exactly what they need to do so they can save up points - I'm not completely sure I want to do that. It is specifically from a black dragon, so I would need to come up with conditions based on the black dragon, but 4 looks like it could be the way to go, at least in combination with other things. I'll have to think a bit more about what would work for that - red would have been easy, but they already have so much access to fire damage.


Not just quests, but quests for a dragon of the same type that's powering the weapon.

This presumes they have a metallic dragon weapon, not a chromatic weapon.

If it's a chromatic weapon, they have to kill the same dragon type as the weapon to power it up, at ever increasing age category.
It is chromatic. I would say that killing a black dragon would work for one of the upgrades, but I don't want the game to become one of just slaying dragons. I think the final upgrade would be to fight an ancient black dragon - that kind of fits my previous thoughts, and seems to be a thought everyone posting is having.


Do you need it to be in the player's control?

One idea is that the sword gains power as the dragon gets stronger. This way the DM has complete control over when it happens. But this would be completely behind the scenes and removed from the player so not sure if that's an option.

It doesn't need to be in the player's control, although I envisioned it happening when the player does something, not just because something in the background happened. But, this has given me some thoughts for that dragon in particular, and how I can make it tie in to a quest they have to go on. It was ancient hundreds of years ago, so the only progression in power it can really have is to become a dracolich, and I was already toying around with a dracolich and dragon blood ooze encounter. Maybe that ends up being the final encounter that raises the sword all the way to awakened.

Thanks, everyone, for the ideas! Really got the juices flowing.

[Angelalex242]

I don't think the game will become just about slaying black dragons...

After all, the party's going to need some quality levels on it to take down that ancient dragon for the Legendary upgrade.

On the other hand, if they want to go homicidal on black dragons at every opportunity to power his sword up...you won't have to think about adventures for a while. You'd just have to get good at running Black Dragons.

[Kol Korran]

About quests/ sub- quests, conditions that awaken the sword's power and the player's disposition:

As you mentioned the player doesn't puruse their own side quests, I suggest integrating the requirement/ sub quest into the party's main quest, but as an additional challenge/ risk/ undertaking.

Examples:
# The party is going to the fire salamander fort? If the blade can be reforged in the elemental forge they use...

# The party is heading to the ancient ruins in the swamp? It is told a wicked hag there can unlock it's power, if they solve her riddle, and get the egg from the notorious half-fiendish hydra that lurks within the ruins...

# Facing off a troll invasion? If the sword will be swallowed by the three headed troll war caster, retrieved and cleanzed before it is digested by it's powerful gastric acids...

And so on...
Basically, don't make the sidequest/ condition too diverging from the main adventure, but enough to cause interest, challenge, and risk

Good luck!