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View Full Version : Aristeia (Feats in Review)



SangoProduction
2022-03-03, 07:35 PM
Aristeia feats use the optional rules (http://spheresofpower.wikidot.com/aristeia) found in Spheres of Power. (And possibly other places, but as I've got no link for them, I don't care. Until someone gives me one.)

Basic gist: Become a nuclear missile, and then wait a couple of days to reload.

I used to rate that as a universal deal breaker. But I now get that it's highly dependent upon the campaign, and ranges from "literally not a penalty" to "you get to sit out for the rest of the campaign"
Of course, even in the campaigns where you do get plenty of down time between big fights, you might get even more between levels. And leveling up is the only time your pool refreshes.
And some DMs are particularly onerous with your condition.
So, your mileage may vary. A lot. A lot a lot.

Anyway. I will be assuming that you want to use the system, and that it's reasonable to you.

Post Review Analysis: Neat. More feats were at at least Good, than weren't. Now just to find that mythical campaign where this has potential.

(1) Superb: You always want this if it's relevant to you. And it probably is.
(1.5) Really Good: Particularly useful bits of kit, but aren't quite must-haves.
(2) Good: These make useful additions to the right builds. Among your first picks.
(3) Meh: Doesn't hurt to have. Wouldn't go out of your way for it.

(4) No: It technically has a use, but the cost to take simply doesn't outweigh the benefit.
(5) Never: There’s no non-trivial reason to pick it up, from its mechanics.
(6+) Harmful: Taking/using this is actively detrimental to your character.

<Angle brackets> around a rating indicates situational usefulness, and how good it is in that favorable situation.
[Square brackets] indicate a reliance on the group (players or DM) or campaign you’re playing in, and how well it does in those select groups.

Special Ratings:
(C) Cheese: A talent so broken that it will be instantly banned if you use it as you could.
(?) Unrated: I choose not to rate it. Often because it is just so far out of my wheelhouse, or it’s far too ambiguous.
(F) Flavor: This indicates that the main draw to the talent is going to be its inherent fluff or flavor, rather than raw power or utility.
(D) D***bag: Used for when your character wants to be a D***bag.

Aristeia Cost / Pool: Gain 1 maximum point per aristeia feat. When activating Aristeia, you may spend up to your remaining points to access that level of Aristeia. Points refill on level up.

Duration: 1 minute. No more no less. After this time, you suffer the backlash.

Hero Points: Hero Points may be spent in exchange for aristeia points.

Conditions: For each feat, you may specify a particular condition that allows you to enter the mode. Must be worked out with the GM.


Note: At some point, I just got annoyed at writing "Aristeia" and went with "beast mode" instead. Not sure when.


Liberating Triumph (1+): A passive +2 to all saves against action-preventers? 3 feats worth, passively? OK, only for "preventing actions" but those are the most obnoxious ones that you most want to save against. And it's got other stuff too...

Dimensional Pursuit (<1>): When you a facing a teleporter, there's nothing better... other than stopping the teleportation. Which this sort of helps with.
Typically worthless. Can't really flex into this either.

Heroic Senses (2): Perception is nice. Getting to see invisibility while beast mode is also nice.

Mage’s Triumph (2): Upwards of +8 to caster level, without dying. That's really not bad. But this is more like "Hey, casters, you get in on the fun too," rather than a true drive to be a beast mode caster.

Unbreachable Heroism (2): A usually better Toughness feat. Gets much better if you're regularly cycling your martial focus. And makes you particularly hardy during aristeia.

Heroic Perseverance (3): You get a half-power aristeia, and then suffer no backlash. Dunno how useful that is. Possibly somewhat, with a quick leveling group, and few days between adventures.

Ultimate Form (3): A situational 1 or 2 free alteration traits? Eh. I mean it's probably helpful. At minimum, it's more attacks. Unless you need more limbs to enable more attacks. But then just become a tentacle spider monster and you're all good.

Veiled Horror (3): Frightful presence is neat. If your DM says it's frightened, it can possibly clear out an entire encounter, and leave you just mopping up with your beast mode. He probably would say shaken though. Relies on fighting those lower level than you, yet still activating your beast mode.

Enduring Aristeia (5): Get to, on the upper end, gain (your lvl) rounds added to the duration. Which... might let you go between 2 fights in a dungeon. But then you're wracking up a bunch of negative levels. And I'm pretty sure you die when negative levels == real levels.
Nuclear missiles burn hot and fast. Not slow and thorough. Leave all the fallout you can!


Heroic Tenacity (?): To me, this would just be tedious. But this is probably the single most versatile non-magical flex ability in the game. But only while in beast mode.

Surging Triumph (?): Honestly? Dunno. The few times I've had hero points, I've literally forgotten to use them. Probably decent.

icefractal
2022-03-03, 08:53 PM
I've looked at these before (mainly because there's an Oath boon that grants them pretty cheaply), but ran into the same issue that it's really hard to evaluate them without knowing the specific pacing of the campaign. So, interesting analysis.

Mage's Triumph - It also gives +1 untyped whenever you could use Aresteia. So if you're a caster who likes to do huge-CL rituals (as in, out-of-combat spells with preparation), and you already have all other bonuses to them, and "doing a big ritual" is a valid Aresteia condition, then your big rituals are +1 better.

Surging Triumph - Potent, IMO. One Hero point lets you replenish any daily resource. 9th level spell slot? 1/day class ability? Mythic ability? All yes. So at higher levels, this can be very good. The passive effect? Good if you have a way of gaining Hero points on demand, like the Heroic Fortune spell (broken, incidentally) or the Reaver's Scythe.


Sidebar: Best passive Aristeia feats (without entering Aristeia or even qualifying for it), for when the campaign doesn't really suit them but you have a lot of Oath points and nothing better to do with them -
Heroic Senses - untyped bonus to Perception always handy.
Heroic Perseverance - qualify for Fighter-only feats, get more uses of per/day combat feats.
Unbreachable Heroism - free temp hp; could be the best if you regain martial focus a lot.
Veiled Horror - untyped bonus to Intimidation is good for some characters.

Serafina
2022-03-04, 04:31 AM
Oh hey, I gave a bunch of feedback to the designer when this got written. Obviously it's a pain to balance, so the "have a decent passive benefit to encourage people to actually take it, and thus introduce the mechanic to the game" is a kind of workable compromise - though not a perfect one.

Also, fun fact: this originally contained an endless loop with spells that gave you Hero Points. Just go to high enough Beast Mode (nice name) that you are able to cast effects that give you temporary hero points every round with your extra action. Make sure you can cast that spell forever. Have a means against exhaustion. Voila, endless Beast Mode. Or, even when not cheesed fully, much more at-will.
So that's why you can't use temporary hero points on this.
(also this means that icefractals trick would not work, since Heroic Fortune grants temporary hero points, that's specifically the loop I closed)

My general verdict on Aristrei feats is
- couple of them are generally useful, if you can spare the room (the bonus vs. all impairing effects, the tempHP one, extra CL, extra combat feat uses)
- few others are useful for other builds too
- check with your GM if they're alright with having this in the game, but then also enquire if everyone can get a handful of free Aristeia feats

icefractal
2022-03-04, 05:43 AM
Oh, lol, missed that you could spend Hero Points for this - although indeed that loop is prevented.

Heroic Fortune being broken isn't in a NI way (AFAIK), just that 190 gp for an extra 9th level spell or extra action (cost of a wand charge) is verrrrry cheap, even more so when it's doing something like allowing another use of Wild Arcana. So at the level you get it, it's fine, but it becomes increasingly OP as you get higher level.

thethird
2022-03-04, 04:25 PM
Also, while not their intended use note that some of them count as more than one feat/ability for prerequisites, so they give you an easier time qualifying for stuff that the feats that they are replacing would (specially if you can grab them for free).

SangoProduction
2022-03-04, 05:56 PM
Also, while not their intended use note that some of them count as more than one feat/ability for prerequisites, so they give you an easier time qualifying for stuff that the feats that they are replacing would (specially if you can grab them for free).

I am so deep into Spheres that I almost forget that feats other than Extra [ ] Talent exists. lol.
But very true.

Serafina
2022-03-05, 11:11 AM
You could actually write a whole mini-guide on Heroic Preserverance - though admittedly, it's mostly about stealing the Fighters thing, so those guides suffice.

Take any class that can qualify for Fighter Levels - normally, those can't grab Advanced Weapon Training or Advanced Armor Training, but the Advanced Weapon Training (https://aonprd.com/FeatDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Advanced%20Weapon%20Trai ning) feat and it's equivalent exist. Voila, you get most of the point of being a fighter.

With Heroic Preserverance and the Barroom Brawler feat, you'll already have at least two daily flexible feats to spend on Advanced Weapon Trainings (or something else). Once you're high enough level to take two AWTs, take Abundant Tactics to add another two uses.
But at that point, each Aristeia feat adds two more uses, so if you take e.g. Unbreachable Heroism and Liberating Triumph, you'll have eight uses which should be plenty to go.

Getting access to flexible Item Mastery usage like that wouldn't be worth four feats - but two of the feats are just good on their own, and if you have any other combat feat with daily limited usages (say, Stunning Fist) then you've added eight uses to that as well.

For Spheres it's particularly interesting since Item Mastery Feats just offer vancian spells, so you get your out-of-the-box tricks without much build investment (while still having a quite limited list).