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Emperor Demonking
2007-11-23, 12:18 PM
Does a half celestial /half fiend/half dragon/half orc a 16th of everything.

In star wars saga, does a noble with wealthy, gain credits on levels he doesn't take in noble.

herrhauptmann
2007-11-23, 12:39 PM
I don't get the first question. I think a few words are missing in it.

The second, never played starwars d20, so no idea.

truemane
2007-11-23, 12:41 PM
I can't figure out if those are serious questions or not...

Anyway. Two simple answers.

1. Someone cannot be four "halves". That would be two people. As far as the templates go, you couldn't have more than one "Half-Blank" template applied to your character. This is simply due to the fact that you only have two "halves" to give away. There's the half for the template and the other half, which is the base creature.

There are no rules for a "1/16th Celestial" template, and such as far as I'm aware. That being the case, there's no mechanical effect for having ancestry less than in "halves." You can say that your character is 1/16 Celestial on his mother's father's side, but there are no bonuses attached, at least as far as RAW is concerned.

Except for Half-elves and Half-Orcs, I suppose. You could be a Half-Orc with the Half-Fiend template, thereby making you 1/4 Orc, 1/4 human (presumably) and half-celestial.

Now my brain hurts.

But there you go.

2. The RAW says every time you gain a level. It doesn't specify. So yes, you get money for those levels. You do, however, ONLY get your Noble level when multiplying. So if you mutliclass, you still only get your NOBLE level in credits, not the whole shebang.

RoboticSheeple
2007-11-23, 12:50 PM
Does a half celestial /half fiend/half dragon/half orc a 16th of everything.


If you asking if a Half-Celestial/Dragon/Fiend Orc has a +16 bonus to every ability the answer is no;
+20 Str
+6 Dex
+8 Con
+6 Int
+2 Wis
+6 Cha

Or the answer is No, you can't have two half templates much less three.

I don't know a thing about Star Wars

Fenix_of_Doom
2007-11-23, 12:54 PM
you can't have two half templates much less three.


Is this rule actually written somewhere or do you just say this because it would be stupid to have more than one "half" template?

RoboticSheeple
2007-11-23, 01:09 PM
Is this rule actually written somewhere or do you just say this because it would be stupid to have more than one "half" template?

here's the actual rule:


Adding More Than One Template
In theory, there’s no limit to the number of templates you can add to a creature. To add more than one template, just apply each template one at a time. Always apply inherited templates before applying acquired templates. Whenever you add multiple templates, pay attention to the creature’s type—you may add a template that makes the creature ineligible for other templates you might want to add.

So while you can be more templates adding more halves than one is simply silly, come up with the parents (best idea I had was normal baby is magically blessed to acquire the templates).

Also, one cannot be a Half-Celestial, Half-Fiend (forget about the Dragon for now) Orc because the alignment conflict.

truemane
2007-11-23, 01:10 PM
Is this rule actually written somewhere or do you just say this because it would be stupid to have more than one "half" template?

I was looking for a stated rule and couldn't find one. Maybe someone knows where one is. The FAQ says that the rules are silent on how or whether templated creatures pass on their templates to their offspring (so it's up to the DM), but that's not really an answer.

But "common sense" should apply. If you're a Half-Celestial, then you HAVE to be a Half-Celestial SOMETHING. Take the rules for the SOMETHING, add the Half-Celestial, and you're done.

Of course, is there a rule against being a Celestial, and taking the Half-Celestial template? That would be even MORE fun to argue across a gaming table.

Setra
2007-11-23, 01:19 PM
Why is it that common sense only applies half the time in arguments about D&D?

In one thread it's "Well per RAW", and the other its "Well common sense says".

This always confused me.

tyckspoon
2007-11-23, 02:10 PM
Why is it that common sense only applies half the time in arguments about D&D?

In one thread it's "Well per RAW", and the other its "Well common sense says".

This always confused me.

I think it's because some posters are working from a perspective where when somebody asks a question about the rules, they'll answer with exactly what the rules say about the situation and then let the question-asker use that information as he will. Others are answering based on how those rules might be altered to use in a real game, in which case common sense (let's call this the 'Reasonable DM' standard.) says that being more than one-half anything is silly and nigh impossible.

truemane
2007-11-23, 02:19 PM
Why is it that common sense only applies half the time in arguments about D&D?

In one thread it's "Well per RAW", and the other its "Well common sense says".

This always confused me.

Although in this case in particular, I couldn't find the rule itself. I apply the "common sense" rule when no actual rule presents itself. And I enclose "common sense" in quotations because there's not really any such thing.

"Common sense" just means "what I want to do."

When there IS a RAW, I generally go with that. Saves arguments.

Chronos
2007-11-23, 02:24 PM
So, if you can't have more than one half- template, what happens when a half-dragon and a celestial have a kid?

tyckspoon
2007-11-23, 02:34 PM
So, if you can't have more than one half- template, what happens when a half-dragon and a celestial have a kid?

You wind up with a half-celestial draconic (Draconomicon, I think) whatever. A Half-template creature doesn't have enough influence on its offspring to pass down the entire half-template. I have no idea if that's an actual written rule anywhere, but I think it's fairly strongly implied by the fluff text for the Half-templates and the lesser-influenced templates like draconic.

Zincorium
2007-11-23, 02:38 PM
So, if you can't have more than one half- template, what happens when a half-dragon and a celestial have a kid?

Catgirls die. That usually evens it all out.

Edit: Oh, and this (http://www.feartheboot.com/comic/default.aspx?c=24) is screaming to be linked as far as the half- multiple things question goes.

WrstDmEvr
2007-11-23, 04:34 PM
It would be a dragon and a celestial mating, each one passing down the 1/2 template.

Shhalahr Windrider
2007-11-23, 05:12 PM
You wind up with a half-celestial draconic (Draconomicon, I think) whatever. A Half-template creature doesn't have enough influence on its offspring to pass down the entire half-template. I have no idea if that's an actual written rule anywhere, but I think it's fairly strongly implied by the fluff text for the Half-templates and the lesser-influenced templates like draconic.
Exactly.

For example, an assimar is a human with a full celestial ancestor more than one generation removed. "Great Great Great Granddady was a Trumpet Archon, Great Great Grandmommy was a Half-Celestial. Great Granddaddy was an Assimar. Granddaddy and Mommy were regular humans. And with me, those recessive celestial traits popped up again and I'm an Assimar just like Great Granddad."

Of course the "Planetouched" type races aren't actually templates. Most of them use a human base. You kinda have to go out of your way to find rules on the elven version of assimars or halfling genasi.


It would be a dragon and a celestial mating, each one passing down the 1/2 template.
You can't apply a template to another template. A template needs a base creature.

You'd wind up with either half-dragon applied to the base celestial or half-celestial applied to the base dragon.

Bryn
2007-11-23, 06:21 PM
I remember reading somewhere that despite the name, half-x templates just represent having x fairly recently in your family tree, explaining why you could have multiple half-x templates. So even though the halves add up to more than one, some of them represent grandparents or something instead.

I might be wrong.

SadisticFishing
2007-11-23, 06:40 PM
What happens if a half-dragon celestial has a kid with a half-dragon human?

Collin152
2007-11-23, 06:56 PM
What happens if a half-dragon celestial has a kid with a half-dragon human?

The DM punches you in the throat.

Shhalahr Windrider
2007-11-23, 09:20 PM
What happens if a half-dragon celestial has a kid with a half-dragon human?
I'd go with half-dragon assimar.

Overlard
2007-11-23, 09:28 PM
I'd go with half-dragon assimar.
Or a draconic half-celestial.

MCerberus
2007-11-23, 10:33 PM
Well as described the half- templates apply to all creatures with a significant portion of their genetic code being what the template is. It takes many generations of half-elves breeding with humans to get a human (catgirl dies in the distance). This is kind of touched with the "bloodline" thing and "planetouched"... but as for Core:


Therefore, Half-Dragon + Half-Celestial = One hell of a level adjustment for their kid

Collin152
2007-11-23, 10:53 PM
Or a draconic half-celestial.

Except the kid has a rather large amount of Draconic heritage, and relitavely less Celestial. However, it still equates to being at least half celiestial, and by the looks of it, about half dragon. Huh.

Idea Man
2007-11-23, 11:06 PM
Oh, just let him have his templates. He's nerfing his own character anyway. The templates could also be the result of magical experimentation, if you need a reason. :smallsigh:

What's the level adjustment on that, +11?

Ka-ther Fangfoot
2007-11-23, 11:17 PM
On page 293 of the monster manual it describes the process of adding more than one template to a creature, including this statement "In theory, there's no limit to the number of templates you can add to a creature." As long as a creature remains eligible for each template after adding the one before it, you can add as many as you like.

A half-celestial-half-fiend-half-dragon halforc is very possible. If you do not like having that many halves, you can say it is an eighth of each. (not a sixteenth, there are only five needed ancestors, so you only need eight people in the first generation) Here is a plausible genealogy:A fiend, celestial, dragon, and orc all have children with four different humans. The half-fiend and halforc hook up and have a half-fiend halforc. (or quarter-fiend-quarter orc if you prefer) The half-dragon and half-celestial also hook up to have a half-dragon-half-celestial. (or quarter-dragon-quarter-celestial if you prefer) These last two hook up to give us our final monstrosity. He has level adjustment of +9. (OUCH!) But with only one hit die he has a CR of a mere 5.

He has stat adjustments of: Strength +18, Dexterity +6, Constitution +8, Intelligence +6, Wisdom +4, and Charisma +8. Plus a +6 to natural armor.

truemane
2007-11-24, 12:20 AM
The Official FAQ says that the rules are "silent" on whether templated creatures pass on their templates to their offspring. They offer a couple of ad hoc guidelines, but that sort of thing is a DM quesiton.

Mechanically, as other posters have said, there is no limit in theory.

Shhalahr Windrider
2007-11-24, 01:59 PM
Well as described the half- templates apply to all creatures with a significant portion of their genetic code being what the template is. It takes many generations of half-elves breeding with humans to get a human (catgirl dies in the distance).
Can you give me a source for this please?

I've never seen the issue directly addressed in 3rd edition, but in second edition it was the opposite case. You needed over 50% elf blood to be a half elf. Anything less than that and you were human.


Except the kid has a rather large amount of Draconic heritage, and relitavely less Celestial. However, it still equates to being at least half celiestial, and by the looks of it, about half dragon. Huh.
No, he's only a quarter celestial

One parent is one-half dragon and one-half celestial. So this parent will pass down one-quarter dragon and only one-quarter celestial.

The other parent is one-half dragon and one-half human. This parent will pass down one-quarter dragon and one-quarter human.

The resulting kid is two-quarters (i.e. one-half) dragon, one-quarter celestial, and one-quarter human.

I suppose this does look like half-dragon applied to a half-celestial human now that I think about it... but it's definitely that order. The character needs the Dragon type.

Wolfwood2
2007-11-25, 12:01 AM
Genetics as we know it don't necessarily exist in D&D-land. (Where the smallest particles are Fire, Earth, Water, and Air bound together by positive and negative energy.)

Possibly if the half-dragon character has strongly embraced his draconic heritage then his off-spring will also be a half-dragon. If he's tried to hide being a half-dragon all his life then the template might not be passed down.

Take all that modern science tells you about heredity and flush it down the toilet. In D&D-land, you can be born left-handed because a witch cursed your mother.

Collin152
2007-11-25, 12:06 AM
If he's tried to hide being a half-dragon all his life then the template might not be passed down.

Take all that modern science tells you about heredity and flush it down the toilet. In D&D-land, you can be born left-handed because a witch cursed your mother.

Yeah, witches nonwithstanding, how would being ashamed of one of your parents prevent your decendants from bearing the traits you obtaned from that parent?
What are the children of half-elves? Do they have poiny ears?
Where do sorcerers and warlocks come from?
The traits pas down. DNA does not exist. Heredity does.

Archangel Yuki
2007-11-25, 12:18 AM
Ok, technally, you are half of each of your parents, correct?

Could two half dragons give birth to a full blodded dragon?:smalleek:

Can you imagine that birth?
If it came out egg, it might be ok, but coming out like people do?

HORNS.

Oh. My. God. Horns.

herrhauptmann
2007-11-25, 12:20 AM
I say, go back to biology class and relearn Punnett's Square.
There are multiple versions, and my class only touched the 4 and 16 block Squares.

Xefas
2007-11-25, 12:28 AM
I'll look later, but I think that Savage Species has something to say about this. If I remember correctly, it says you can have as many halves as you want, and all the bonuses apply; you're just a quarter/eighth/sixteenth/whatever.

If I was right, I'll be back with a quote...

If not, then I suppose common sense wins.

MrNexx
2007-11-25, 12:30 AM
One parent is a Celestial Half-Orc, the other is a Fiendish Red Dragon.

Their offspring? Half-Celestial, Half-Fiendish, Half-Dragon Half-orc.

And very, very, confused. Thanksgiving is, quite literally, Hell.

:smallbiggrin: