Reaping the rewards

[KyleG]

This is food for thought on a character build for a mini campaign levels 7 thru 10.
The death cleric feature reaper is what i think i want to focus around. Now that might mean a full cleric build or just a dip. I am staying away from hexblade and I'm building for sustained damage.

One image in my head is of a typical grin reaper watching over a battlefield. Maybe he is a dhampir who casts spare the dying before feeding on the wounded at the conclusion of battle.

The other picture is more pirates of the Caribbean specifically Barbosa crossed with charon ferrying people into the next life. This one's more jovial perhaps a odd shadar kai or a reborn. Even dhampir still could work.

Bladesinger with single level dip in death cleric might work. With only a 13 in wis needed its not too mad, even without bladesong it could pump out some damage but it might be a little squishy for the front line. Any merit in ranged?

1 level in fighter then cleric the rest means less attacks than the above but strong conc. Spiritual weapon, spirit guardians possibly a couple of skeletons?

The more I've thought about dhampir the more a build designed to lean into bites as the attack sounds cool especially on a priestly sort but that could be background perhaps a non cleric build is better for this.

So there is actually three directions here and your thoughts on getting the most damage from these is most appreciated.

1. Focus on reaper. Multiclass.
2. Lean into death cleric fully.
3. Forget or sideline reaper and focus on bite.

[Khrysaes]

There are only 4 necromancy cantrips.
Spare the dying.
Chill Touch
Toll the Dead
and Sapping Sting from Wildemount

Sapping sting can have a lot of benefit from Bladesinger 6, namely in that you can Sapping sting to prone an enemy (or 2), then hit them with advantage while they are down.


Edit: also to note is that Alchemist Artificer at level 5 can add its INT to necrotic damage rolls.

[Eldariel]

I wouldn't multiclass. The best ability of Death Cleric is Touch of Death, which can be delivered through e.g. Spiritual Weapon (melee spell attack and it works on melee attacks). This lets you Reaper Toll the Dead followed by Spiritual Weapon attack tossing solid 20ish damage on top of the rider. This is actually pretty darn serious damage you're doing there: 2d12 + 2d12 + 1d8 + 5 + 19 on level 7, for instance. On level 8, add Blessed Strikes to that (much better than Divine Strike for you in that you might actually use Blessed Strikes - you'd still really love Potent Spellcasting though). This also means you don't need to Spirit Guardians + Telekinetic (though on the downside your action economy doesn't make Spirit Guardians + Telekinetic as good as it is on other Clerics; you're interested in just nuking people in the face).

[PhantomSoul]

I wouldn't multiclass. The best ability of Death Cleric is Touch of Death, which can be delivered through e.g. Spiritual Weapon (melee spell attack and it works on melee attacks). This lets you Reaper Toll the Dead followed by Spiritual Weapon attack tossing solid 20ish damage on top of the rider. This is actually pretty darn serious damage you're doing there: 2d12 + 2d12 + 1d8 + 5 + 19 on level 7, for instance. On level 8, add Blessed Strikes to that (much better than Divine Strike for you in that you might actually use Blessed Strikes - you'd still really love Potent Spellcasting though). This also means you don't need to Spirit Guardians + Telekinetic (though on the downside your action economy doesn't make Spirit Guardians + Telekinetic as good as it is on other Clerics; you're interested in just nuking people in the face).

Touch of Death is good, but it doesn't strike me as THAT good, mainly because (a) the scaling is small (2 damage per cleric level, which means a level elsewhere is just two damage lost per use) and it's twice per short rest (which might be plenty... or might be twice). Not bad by any stretch, but your biggest boost is definitely at level 2 for it (so the OP's single level might be ducking out early if the ability appeals to them, but levels past two have proportionally diminishing returns for this ability).

That said, going to 8 in Death Cleric seems pretty solid, though if wanting to leverage the variant Bladesinger's variant Extra Attack obviously that's too many levels given the campaign. (And really, the higher-level cleric spells largely don't appeal to me as much anyway, so if there weren't the effective cap for the build level I'd probably duck out at level 8 or maybe 9, earlier if not doing melee and maybe not even stick with it that long. Summon Celestial is appealing at 9, though, and this build might enjoy Holy Weapon if it wants that melee side!) It would also help with the slight anti-synergy in abilities: bolster the melee side through other classes, which gives more use from Divine Strike -- and potentially use those to deliver the Touch of death damage... but you'll then make less use of Reaper, which is pretty great (and extra great with variant Extra Attack silliness).

[LudicSavant]

This is food for thought on a character build for a mini campaign levels 7 thru 10.
The death cleric feature reaper is what i think i want to focus around. Now that might mean a full cleric build or just a dip. I am staying away from hexblade and I'm building for sustained damage.

One image in my head is of a typical grin reaper watching over a battlefield. Maybe he is a dhampir who casts spare the dying before feeding on the wounded at the conclusion of battle.

The other picture is more pirates of the Caribbean specifically Barbosa crossed with charon ferrying people into the next life. This one's more jovial perhaps a odd shadar kai or a reborn. Even dhampir still could work.

Bladesinger with single level dip in death cleric might work. With only a 13 in wis needed its not too mad, even without bladesong it could pump out some damage but it might be a little squishy for the front line. Any merit in ranged?

1 level in fighter then cleric the rest means less attacks than the above but strong conc. Spiritual weapon, spirit guardians possibly a couple of skeletons?

The more I've thought about dhampir the more a build designed to lean into bites as the attack sounds cool especially on a priestly sort but that could be background perhaps a non cleric build is better for this.

So there is actually three directions here and your thoughts on getting the most damage from these is most appreciated.

1. Focus on reaper. Multiclass.
2. Lean into death cleric fully.
3. Forget or sideline reaper and focus on bite.

Reaper isn't the Death Cleric's best ability, Touch of Death is. It has the same properties that make Divine Smite good (can't be wasted on a miss, requires no extra action economy, etc). And it's more smite-like oomph than all of a Paladin's spell slots combined (unless all those smites are critting).

Yes, you heard that right. In a standard 2 short rest day, the Death Cleric's Channel Divinity contributes significantly more damage than if a Paladin converts every single spell slot they have to Divine Smites (unless all of those smites are critting).

Since the features work in such a similar manner, they're easy to compare. Like so:

Comparison of Touch of Death vs Divine Smite
Level 2:
27 damage (Death Cleric over a 2-short-rest day) vs 18 damage (Paladin using all of their slots on non-crit smites)

Level 6:
102 damage (Channel Divinity over a 2-short-rest day) vs 63 damage (Paladin using all of their slots on non-crit smites)

Level 20:
405 damage (Channel Divinity over a 2-short-rest day) vs 243 damage (Paladin using all of their slots on non-crit smites)

___

So yeah, single class Death Cleric is very good, no need to multiclass to become a beast. Also, keep in mind they can append their Touch of Death to spell attacks -- including the likes of Spiritual Weapon. You can legitimately get into triple digit single target burst DPR (not damage on hit, I'm talking DPR including miss chance and all) with Touch of Death on a single class Death Cleric. And still be able to do all the usual Cleric stuff.

If you want some other ideas/options, I've used Death Cleric in the past as an Eldritch Knight finisher on Soulknife (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=24681222&postcount=523)-like builds (e.g. Eldritch Knights often want to jump into a full caster after hitting level 11 or 12, and Death Cleric is one of the options they can use for that).

[KyleG]

Whilst i do like your suggestion with your soul knife build in left wondering if there is an alternative progression that might see some cleric levels in the 7-10 range that this campaign will see. Im thinking for this f6/c1, f7/c1, f8/c1 or f8/c2. That last level perhaps swapped.

And for those talking about touch of death i can see its a powerful nova ability but the intent is to be a consistent force of damage. Happy to have it there if the build is focused on death cleric but no point in a dip i don't think.

Good feedback this far it is giving me pause on which life to live.

[LudicSavant]

And for those talking about touch of death i can see its a powerful nova ability but the intent is to be a consistent force of damage.

It isn't a super scarce resource. See above about comparing it to a Paladin's entire collection of spell slots for the day, then realize that's before you even used any spell slots on your full caster.

From level 6-17, Touch of Death is 6 times per "standard" adventuring day, meaning you can use it basically every combat. Not that you need to, because it's not all you're bringing. The great thing about Touch of Death is that you just bolt it on top of the usual things you do for good, resource-efficient Cleric damage (Spirit Guardians, Spiritual Weapon, Animate Dead, Summon Celestial, Bless, etc) and twinned cantrips from Touch of Death (especially helpful since Clerics can have plenty to do with their spell slots while still keeping their Action free much of the time), buffed with Blessed Strikes.

What's more, you can just plain circumvent a lot of defenses. What's that, the enemy's got Legendary Resistance, Magic Resistance, Necrotic Resistance, saving throws through the roof, and so forth? No problem, you can target AC just as easily as saves, and you pierce all Resistance.

Tools like Spirit Guardians, Animate Dead, and Summon Celestial often last for multiple combats. Spiritual Weapon at least lasts for multiple rounds. Twinned cantrips apply whenever the opportunity arises (if you have people in your party who can knock enemies around, like a grappler or Repelling Blast Warlock or people with Telekinetic or Crusher or Thorn Whip or the like, remind them of the value of playing pinball). Even Chill Touch is a meaningful addition to the Cleric list because they don't normally have a good AC-targeting cantrip (let alone one that gets twinned at will, pierces all resistances, and stamps out healing).

Basically, if you're playing your cards right your output should average out very well indeed over the course of a long adventuring day.

And this applies straight from low levels -- for example, at level 2 a typical Paladin just has one attack, and you've already got your twin cantrips and more smite resources than they do, plus 3 spell slots.

[KyleG]

I keep forgetting that cd on Cleric's is sr recharge.

[RogueJK]

Dipping Fighter isn't worth the delay to your Cleric spells/abilities, and going with a Death Cleric dip on a Wizard doesn't let you leverage Touch of Death. Instead of dipping Fighter for better Concentration, plan for the Resilient:CON feat on a single classed Death Cleric.

Something like this with Point Buy:
Dhampir Death Cleric X
STR 10
DEX 14
CON 14+1
INT 10
WIS 15+2
CHA 8
Take Resilient CON at 4th, then a WIS half-feat at 8th, and +2 WIS at 12th. If you want to be extra macabre, take the Chef feat as your WIS half-feat at 8th, and offer the party treats made from dubiously-sourced mystery meat (ala Sweeney Todd).

Wear medium armor and carry a shield, but leave your other hand free for casting. Use your CON-based bite if the occasional melee attack is needed (like an Opportunity Attack) or for times when you want to empower yourself, but otherwise stick to Chill Touch and Toll the Dead (twinned with Reaper as appropriate) as your go-to resource-free combat options, utilizing Chill Touch against enemies with high WIS saves or when fighting at range and Toll the Dead against enemies with high AC or when you're next to enemies.

You can make tactical use of your Spider Climb for extra positioning options to avoid some melee enemies, although there will be times when you want to wade into close range in order to make use of spells like Spirit Guardians, Inflict Wounds, and Vampiric Touch.

You'll have the option to deliver Touch of Death with your bite or with spells like Inflict Wounds, Vampiric Touch, Contagion, and Spiritual Weapon, all of which are melee attacks and therefore qualify. Of these, Spiritual Weapon will be the most commonly used route.

[XmonkTad]

And this applies straight from low levels -- for example, at level 2 a typical Paladin just has one attack, and you've already got your twin cantrips and more smite resources than they do, plus 3 spell slots.

Agree with this a lot. I've played a bunch of low level characters, but the best level 1 I ever played was a Death Cleric Tortle that had Toll The Dead. Twin d12s pretty much the whole way, which made the party happy. Level 2 was strong too, where I would basically front-line and burn spell slots on Inflict Wounds with the CD rider for some good single-target.
A strong character, and getting around the lack of heavy armor proficiency with tortle AC+ shield worked well.

[RogueJK]

and getting around the lack of heavy armor proficiency with tortle AC+ shield worked well.

Tortle AC + Shield = 19 AC

Medium Armor AC with 14 DEX + Shield = 19 AC

So Tortle doesn't really help you out there, unless you can't spare a 14 DEX.


And Heavy Armor proficiency would only get you to 20, so a mere +1 AC, but then you'd need to have a 15 STR.

[Eldariel]

Tortle AC + Shield = 19 AC

Medium Armor AC with 14 DEX + Shield = 19 AC

So Tortle doesn't really help you out there, unless you can't spare a 14 DEX.


And Heavy Armor proficiency would only get you to 20, so a mere +1 AC, but then you'd need to have a 15 STR.

Well, it helps out on level 1 where you most certainly aren't affording a half-plate.

[KyleG]

OK so I've managed to split these ideas in my head now.
The biting dhampir will likely be a swarmkeeper in the future, maybe i won't be inclined to lean so heavily into it then but the image of my swarm surrounding me when i do attack someone for a bite is too cool.

I've walked back the pirates of the Caribbean idea entirely for now.
And the bladesinger idea wouldn't get enough death cleric for the concept.

Which leaves the death cleric itself, either ending as a pure DC10, or possibly having one or two levels of fighter.

The fighter gives me the armor to be walking thru enemies with spirit guardians up, spiritual weapon out, and hand out ringing deaths bell.

A second fighter gives me action surge at the expense of 5th level spells. That's a tough one and my instinct is its not worth it. If the story ran to level 12 or more i think i would have taken at least 4 in fighter or walked that idea back and pursued the bladesinger route.

The question then is really 0, 1 or 2 levels of fighter. And i think 1 level gives me more than cleric gives.

Walking thru a battlefield preaching and without a physical weapon just looks awesome in my head.

[LudicSavant]

OK so I've managed to split these ideas in my head now.
The biting dhampir will likely be a swarmkeeper in the future, maybe i won't be inclined to lean so heavily into it then but the image of my swarm surrounding me when i do attack someone for a bite is too cool.

I've walked back the pirates of the Caribbean idea entirely for now.
And the bladesinger idea wouldn't get enough death cleric for the concept.

Which leaves the death cleric itself, either ending as a pure DC10, or possibly having one or two levels of fighter.

The fighter gives me the armor to be walking thru enemies with spirit guardians up, spiritual weapon out, and hand out ringing deaths bell.

A second fighter gives me action surge at the expense of 5th level spells. That's a tough one and my instinct is its not worth it. If the story ran to level 12 or more i think i would have taken at least 4 in fighter or walked that idea back and pursued the bladesinger route.

The question then is really 0, 1 or 2 levels of fighter. And i think 1 level gives me more than cleric gives.

Walking thru a battlefield preaching and without a physical weapon just looks awesome in my head.

If all you want out of Fighter 1 is heavy armor, I'd say pass. Medium armor is just as good -- you trade -1 AC for 750gp and a better statline (with 14 Dex instead of 15 Str). Then it's just measuring a Fighting Style and Second Wind against a 5th level spell slot, Touch of Death scaling, and Divine Intervention.

[RogueJK]

The fighter gives me the armor to be walking thru enemies with spirit guardians up, spiritual weapon out, and hand out ringing deaths bell.

The question then is really 0, 1 or 2 levels of fighter. And i think 1 level gives me more than cleric gives.

0 Fighter levels.


If all you want out of Fighter 1 is heavy armor, I'd say pass. Medium armor is just as good -- you trade -1 AC for 750gp and a better statline (with 14 Dex instead of 15 Str). Then it's just measuring a Fighting Style and Second Wind against a 5th level spell slot, Touch of Death scaling, and Divine Intervention.

Exactly.

+1 AC from Heavy Armor isn't worth being a level behind in your spell slots and Cleric abilities. Even +2 AC from Heavy Armor and Defense Fighting Style isn't worth it. You'd still have a 19 AC with Medium Armor + Shield + 14 DEX.

Shoot for the higher level Cleric stuff, rather than diluting it by chasing entry level Fighter abilities for marginal AC boosts. If you're that concerned about AC, try to find a magic item like a Ring of Protection. There are magic items and spells that can give you +1/+2 AC. There aren't magic items or spells that can give you 5th level spellcasting, Divine Intervention, and a higher Touch of Death damage output.

[animorte]

2. Lean into death cleric fully.

This one right here.