Coming up with a Dungeon Keeper-esque D&D game

[Drakeburn]

So after looking through Tyler Kamstra’s two Monstrous Races books, I've decided to work on making a Dungeon Keeper-esque D&D 5e game.

But I didn't get very far into the project before I realized a few problems, with a couple of them being:

How can the players build the dungeon?
One aspect of this game I've thought about is giving the PCs the ability to build and expand their dungeon. However, I don't have any mechanics in place for that aspect.

What’s to stop the PCs from abandoning the dungeon?
At first I thought about starting off with a sort of one-way teleportation gate that only lets adventurers and creatures inside the dungeon, and that the party would have to clear out rubble and debris to access other parts of the dungeon till they eventually find a way out. That way, they could find potential allies and enemies throughout the whole dungeon. But then I asked myself "Wouldn't that make it more of a dungeon crawl than an actual reverse dungeon? Would I be railroading the players too hard with this setup?" Also, I'm pretty sure players can find creative ways to escape the dungeon early.
I don't mind letting the PCs leaving the dungeon to raid, pillage, or wreak havoc. I'm just afraid of them abandoning the Reverse Dungeon aspect of the game to go do their own thing.

[Batcathat]

What’s to stop the PCs from abandoning the dungeon?
At first I thought about starting off with a sort of one-way teleportation gate that only lets adventurers and creatures inside the dungeon, and that the party would have to clear out rubble and debris to access other parts of the dungeon till they eventually find a way out. That way, they could find potential allies and enemies throughout the whole dungeon. But then I asked myself "Wouldn't that make it more of a dungeon crawl than an actual reverse dungeon? Would I be railroading the players too hard with this setup?" Also, I'm pretty sure players can find creative ways to escape the dungeon early.
I don't mind letting the PCs leaving the dungeon to raid, pillage, or wreak havoc. I'm just afraid of them abandoning the Reverse Dungeon aspect of the game to go do their own thing.

You probably need the players to buy into the concept. Though that's also true of any other concept — what's to stop the party from just going somewhere other than the dungeon in a regular dungeon crawl?

To encourage it (and provide some in-universe justification) you could make the outside world dangerous, so that abandoning the comparatively easily defended dungeon doesn't look very appealing.

[Florian]

The real problem with something like Reverse Dungeon is that your players just sit around and have to wait for things to happen.

Now look at something like Pathfinder Kingmaker, a campaign that has you build your own cities and kingdom along with more regular adventuring and exploring.

[Satinavian]

How can the players build the dungeon?
One aspect of this game I've thought about is giving the PCs the ability to build and expand their dungeon. However, I don't have any mechanics in place for that aspect.

Give them a Dungeon Heart artefact that can do this but is also not movable. Maybe it was the center of an old mythical fortress of some epic mage from which now only a ruin remains after he lost interest and went to his even better fortress in some demiplane.

What’s to stop the PCs from abandoning the dungeon?
At first I thought about starting off with a sort of one-way teleportation gate that only lets adventurers and creatures inside the dungeon, and that the party would have to clear out rubble and debris to access other parts of the dungeon till they eventually find a way out. That way, they could find potential allies and enemies throughout the whole dungeon. But then I asked myself "Wouldn't that make it more of a dungeon crawl than an actual reverse dungeon? Would I be railroading the players too hard with this setup?" Also, I'm pretty sure players can find creative ways to escape the dungeon early.
I don't mind letting the PCs leaving the dungeon to raid, pillage, or wreak havoc. I'm just afraid of them abandoning the Reverse Dungeon aspect of the game to go do their own thing.
First : Don't do a dungeon keeper game without explicit buy in. Don't railroad your players there

Second : The superpowerful sungeon heart and the ability to shape its surroundings are the biggest treasure here and also can't be moved. That should be enough motivartion for characters who want a stronghold or power over the region or at least want no one else to get it.

Third : What you really need is a reason why the PCs should employ primarily monsters and why primarily heroes invade. That is, if you want to keep that aspect.

[Drakeburn]

You probably need the players to buy into the concept. Though that's also true of any other concept — what's to stop the party from just going somewhere other than the dungeon in a regular dungeon crawl?

To encourage it (and provide some in-universe justification) you could make the outside world dangerous, so that abandoning the comparatively easily defended dungeon doesn't look very appealing.

True. While I'm confident that players would quickly buy into the concept of playing as monsters (from a imp to a Tarrasque), I shouldn't confuse that with confidence that they'll buy into a Dungeon Keeper-esque game.


The real problem with something like Reverse Dungeon is that your players just sit around and have to wait for things to happen.

Now look at something like Pathfinder Kingmaker, a campaign that has you build your own cities and kingdom along with more regular adventuring and exploring.

Well, that's true. A Reverse Dungeon game would work better as a one-shot than a campaign.

Though that's why I wanted to include a dungeon building mechanic which could lead to the party accidentally connecting their dungeon with other dungeons.




First : Don't do a dungeon keeper game without explicit buy in. Don't railroad your players there

Second : The superpowerful dungeon heart and the ability to shape its surroundings are the biggest treasure here and also can't be moved. That should be enough motivation for characters who want a stronghold or power over the region or at least want no one else to get it.

Third : What you really need is a reason why the PCs should employ primarily monsters and why primarily heroes invade. That is, if you want to keep that aspect.

First: That's definitely the plan.

Second: Not a bad idea actually. An artifact that the PCs can use to shape the dungeon to

Third: I've actually thought up of a couple ideas to explain that:

1) The monsters were taken and experimented upon by an evil wizard/mad scientist until one day an accident occurs that not only kills the evil wizard/mad scientist and frees the PCs, but it also draws the attention to a nearby kingdom. The king of said kingdom sends soldiers and adventurers to investigate. While this would explain how normally unintelligent monster that the PCs choose to play as become sentient and why some monster PCs are smaller than their Monster Manual counterparts, though the whole Reverse Dungeon premise falls apart if the PCs talk their way out of the fight and the lab (unless I throw some Miko Miyazakis into the mix of soldiers and adventurers).

2) The monster PCs were once part of the dark lord's forces. A final battle between the dark lord's forces against the forces of good in the dark lord's domain (similar to Mordor). But then when the dark lord is destroyed, the ground collapses under all the monsters and buildings the dark lord's realm, burying them underground. The PCs are the ones that survived, and find themselves inside what's left of one of the dark lord's fortresses. In it, they find a piece of an artifact that used to belong to the dark lord. With this artifact, the party can shape and expand the dungeon. But there are also other dungeons scattered underground, lead by lieutenants of the deceased dark lord with their own pieces of the artifact. In the land above, soldiers posted at the borders keep a lookout for the potential threat of any dark forces that may have survived, while adventurers come looking to scavenge any valuables to take for themselves.

Edit: I probably shouldn't post replies so late at night.

And thank you everyone for the feedback.