How to play a Ranger that isn't a liability?

[Sindri]

I've got an idea for a character in an upcoming campaign that seems like a Ranger would be the best thematic choice.

I've heard that Ranger was bad in the past, but never looked too close into the details of why before. And it's a pretty low-optimization table and I've got a bit of a munchkin impulse that I try to retrain to keep myself in line with everybody else, so I figured that taking a sub-par class would be a good exercise.

And wow is Ranger terrible in this game.

The Favored Enemy power is not only limited to a single creature type (two at lvl 6+, three at 14+), but it doesn't actually do anything except teach you their language and give advantage on tracking rolls? Not so much as a +1 to hit, until you hit the level 20 capstone?
Natural Explorer would be pretty decent utility for getting the party around the map and exploring, except that it only works in a single terrain type? So as soon as the party leaves the mountain range, I go back to being as useless at dealing with the wilderness as the wizard and the rogue are. Probably more so.
I can tell when monsters are around... but not where they are, or even how many. I'm burning a spell slot per minute to get [you cannot rest while enemies are nearby] and nothing else.
What little spellcasting ability you have is full of things like first level spells that are dramatically worse than everybody else's cantrips, but still cost half my magical resources for the day.
Moving full speed through difficult terrain, a thing that Rangers have been known for since like, AD&D, is something you have to wait until 8th level for.
The big dramatic stealth bonus you get is something that requires a full minute to set up, and is broken if you move or take any kind of action.

I'm aware that Tasha's gave us some alternate class features. And they're less incredibly situational than the things they replace, but in the process they sacrifice all the flavor the class had left, and after all that they're still not good. Like, Favored Foe is just a flat damage bonus against anybody (one smaller than a Hunter's Mark), which manages to be even more boring than the fighter's Style, and his doesn't run out of charges. No longer needing to sleep at 10th level would be kinda interesting... except that even without exhaustion you still need to long rest to refresh any of your other powers, anemic as they are.

I could go on, but you've probably heard it all before. Several of the subclasses are conceptually cool, but their actual mechanics are nowhere near enough to make up for the base class. Is there a way to play a Ranger that doesn't suck, without either begging the GM to write a whole new class or like, taking a 1-3 level ranger dip before multiclassing the rest of my build into something competent?

Or would I be better off just playing a Fighter with the Linguist feat to simulate all the useful parts of this class?

[Tanarii]

Don't play a ranger in an urban or dungeon delving campaign.

Other than that, they're not a liability.

Especially powerful is Natural Explorer, when it applies Rangers can do things no other class can duplicate. Like retain passive perception while Navigating or Tracking or Foraging or Mapping. Or stealthily scout at full speed by staying a bit ahead of the party.

Also you missed that Favored Enemy gives a bonus to recalling things about your enemies, useful if your DM makes "knowledge checks".

One house-rule you might be able to talk your DM into is making is to get all the non-expertise bonuses from Natural Explorer in any terrain, especially if they're going to rule terrain on a micro-level as opposed to a macro-level. On a macro-level, most local campaign maps should usually only take place in 2 or so major terrains plus either Coastal or Mountains. Take a look at Faerun's map of the north as an example. But on a micro-level you might find them ruling that any copse of trees is forested terrain and every small bog area is swamp.

[Kane0]

I've got an idea for a character in an upcoming campaign that seems like a Ranger would be the best thematic choice.


The Tashas spells replacing phb awareness I think is a good trade, and if you have downtime you can just learn languages the ling way instead of picking favored enemy or spending a feat on them.

How open is the DM to straying from the official? You could for example ask if you can take some of the Tashas stuff in addition to what they would ordinarily replace (eg Favored Enemy as well as Favored Foe).
Or go full homebrew, theres lots out there (mine included, sameless self-plug).

[diplomancer]

Rangers work very well in Tiers 1 and 2 (better than Paladins in Tier 1, in my opinion) It's when later Tiers come in that they become less good. So the answer to your question is "play them at Tiers 1 and 2".

What makes Rangers feel bad is that they're the one class that, at level 1, apparently gets no combat features. Tasha's has changed that, and, with those changes (and all the post-PHB subclasses), Rangers become very viable. Specially in a low optimization table, if you go Ranger and do optimize a bit, you will still be better than other PCs.

[MeimuHakurei]

No matter what favored enemy or terrain you might have, your Archery Fighting Style coupled with your spells will always be live. Goodberry can be sustenance or extra healing, especially if you have slots left over. Fog Cloud and Entangle are good battlefield control options. Spike Growth too at higher levels. Pass without Trace basically lets your party get surprise on virtually any enemy. Conjure Animals adds a ton of damage and health to an encounter.

The class would unironically be much stronger if Favored Enemy, Natural Explorer and Hunter's Mark were cut wholesale so that people don't think you need to focus on bad low impact features or concentrate on spells that do abysmal damage with no control whatsover.

[Leon]

Very easily, sure some of the class features in Core are a lil naff but they certainly don't make the class a liability. Have been playing a Core only ranger recently and its been a lot of fun, nominally TWF but regret that style choice and would go with Defense if i were to do it again as ive found that i do a lot of ranged work as well as melee depending on the situation and +4 damage to an occasional attack isn't that great. Have a couple of other ideas i'd like to try with Rangers at some point aswell and have a go at being a STR focused one particularly if i can use some of the Tash's changes to replace the naff Core ones.

Its long been my Fav class across multiple editions.

[Silpharon]

Just take a nice dip, and you'll feel much better. ;)

Options in no particular order:
Genie Warlock 1: +PB damage/turn, hiding/loot vessel, armor of Agathys...
Divine Soul Sorcerer 1: lots of cantrips, bless, healing word, shield, Favored by the Gods...
Stars Druid 2: Archery form, guiding bolt PB times, shillelagh, dragon form, healing word, faerie fire, great for a Swarmkeeper, could go wisdom primary stat
Peace Cleric 1: Emboldening Bond, Emboldening Bond again, sanctuary, bless, healing word...
Twilight Cleric 1: Vigilant Blessing, Eyes of Night, faerie fire, bless, healing word, great for a Gloom Stalker...

FWIW, my next character will likely be a Stars Druid X/Swarmkeeper 5, but I think going Stars Druid 2/Swarmkeeper X could also be fun.

[tokek]

I'm aware that Tasha's gave us some alternate class features. And they're less incredibly situational than the things they replace, but in the process they sacrifice all the flavor the class had left, and after all that they're still not good. Like, Favored Foe is just a flat damage bonus against anybody (one smaller than a Hunter's Mark), which manages to be even more boring than the fighter's Style, and his doesn't run out of charges. No longer needing to sleep at 10th level would be kinda interesting... except that even without exhaustion you still need to long rest to refresh any of your other powers, anemic as they are.



I have played a Tasha's Ranger from 1-13 now and it never ever felt like that. The flavour is there if you want it to be there.

You get two languages to reflect the disparate folk you deal with in the wild either in a friendly or hostile manner. You start out with an expertise which makes the Ranger an excellent scout - most players go for something thematic like Perception or Stealth

Then at higher levels you gain more mobility. The 10th level feature is actually very sweet, a constant flow of THP to reflect the hardy resilient nature of the archetype and the ability to recover fast from exhaustion is so much more than just "does not need to sleep".

Favored Foe has no action economy cost and for many characters will do enough that you don't feel the need of Hunters Mark. Its flavour is similar, you pick out your prey and take it down.

Primal Awareness is nice, a bunch of spells you would otherwise not really be able to have - due to the limitations of Ranger - which really fulfil the fantasy of master of the wild quite nicely

Nature's Veil replaces a useless ribbon feature with an absolute stunner of a feature, essentially a one-turn Greater Invisibility PB times per day. Its crazy good and has become the core of my character's fighting style. Pick your moments carefully but when you do its awesome, its just a BA and nothing can counterspell it.

[LudicSavant]

Don't play a ranger in an urban or dungeon delving campaign.

Other than that, they're not a liability.

Especially powerful is Natural Explorer, when it applies Rangers can do things no other class can duplicate. Like retain passive perception while Navigating or Tracking or Foraging or Mapping. Or stealthily scout at full speed by staying a bit ahead of the party.

That stuff's not Ranger-exclusive. :smallconfused:

Let's take "Stealthily scout at full speed." This upgrades your pace from Slow to Normal while moving stealthily, but only in your Favored Terrain, only if you've been there for more than an hour, and only if you're moving alone.

Now let's compare that ability to a Totem Barbarian, who takes Elk at 6. They turn everyone's Slow pace into the Ranger's Fast pace... thus far outpacing the Ranger, while retaining stealth. And they do this with no strings attached. Don't need to be in favored terrain. Don't need to be moving alone. And it works not only on you but everyone in the party, and their mounts and minions.

[Aalbatr0ss]

I'm aware that Tasha's gave us some alternate class features. And they're less incredibly situational than the things they replace, but in the process they sacrifice all the flavor the class had left, and after all that they're still not good. Like, Favored Foe is just a flat damage bonus against anybody (one smaller than a Hunter's Mark), which manages to be even more boring than the fighter's Style, and his doesn't run out of charges. No longer needing to sleep at 10th level would be kinda interesting... except that even without exhaustion you still need to long rest to refresh any of your other powers, anemic as they are.


Yeah. If you don’t like rangers that much, play a fighter. Nice and easy. Take skilled for one of your extra feats. I don’t think rangers are bad, but if you can’t get over the weak points of the class, why spend your time playing one. It’s very easy to make a ranger-flavored fighter. Dip a couple levels of nature cleric or druid if you want some spells. You’ll be fine.

I’m a little confused how Tasha’s optional class features rob the ranger of flavor. While the enemy-terrain mechanics aren’t good for much in most situations, they’re also very easy to have as a free “flavor” mechanic. You can take survival and nature and role play a hunter from a swamp who really hates giants or whatever.

The word “liability”… are you playing with a bunch of power gamers? Is everyone else playing a charisma multiclass? There is a ranger at every one of my tables and not one is a liability.

[Contrast]

And it's a pretty low-optimization table

I mean I played a ranger at a low optimization table and was the most powerful one there by dint of choosing Sharpshooter as a feat.

You get Goodberry, Absorb Elements, Hunters Mark and Pass Without Trace. That's sufficient to keep you relevant and contributing. Admittedly it can undermine you a bit if there's also a druid in the party.

The real issue is that sooner or later you should probably drop out of ranger and start taking druid or rogue levels instead IMO.

[nickl_2000]

I can't speak for higher tiers, but in Tier 1 a ranger does plenty well. I'm playing a Swarmkeeper currently at level 4 with archery fighting style. He is steady, he is strong, and he drops more damage than most other PCs in any given fight.

Long term, I believe that this PC will be going Ranger Swarmkeeper 5/Circle of Stars Druid 15 though. This particular party needs healing and the PC isn't the cleric type. So, picking up Druid levels just makes sense.

[J-H]

Some subclasses add nice abilities as well.
Horizon Walker gives you a bonus action teleport for your melee or archery needs.
Monster Slayer (wizard slayer) helps you shut down enemy spellcasters a few times a day.
Even just the basic Hunter has some nice features.

[Pildion]

I've never had an issue with GloomStalker or Hunter Archery Rangers. BeastMaster is terrible but if you just play as a stealthy archer then Ranger does fine.

[Aalbatr0ss]

I can't speak for higher tiers, but in Tier 1 a ranger does plenty well. I'm playing a Swarmkeeper currently at level 4 with archery fighting style. He is steady, he is strong, and he drops more damage than most other PCs in any given fight.

Long term, I believe that this PC will be going Ranger Swarmkeeper 5/Circle of Stars Druid 15 though. This particular party needs healing and the PC isn't the cleric type. So, picking up Druid levels just makes sense.

Second this. Swarmkeeper is a ton of fun. A great urban setting ranger because you can push people off rooftops!

Also, swarmkeeper doesn’t have much bonus action demand unless you’re doing hunter’s mark. So it’s great for stars or wildfire multiclass. Stars is probably a bit more powerful but wildfire gives you a teleport option that is often good and occasionally fantastic.

[JackPhoenix]

You don't want to be a liability? Don't go out of your way to be a liability.

This isn't 3.x. It takes effort to be not only useless, but outright liability. Yes, you may not be as powerful as some other options. Yes, you may not use all your features all the time. So what? Is a rogue a liability because you never use Thieves' Cant in a typical campaign? Of course not. You can get proficiency in important skills, you aren't bad in a fight, and you have useful spells, and that's not going into subclass features (well, there's Beastmaster....). What more do you need?

[Keravath]

I realize that some folks have bad opinions of rangers but in my experience, at least for some of the archetypes, they are decent or great choices and at least the middle of the pack or better.

I've seen both gloomstalker and horizon walker from Xanathar's in play and the gloomstalker can be really good especially if they can leverage dark conditions. Even the hunter from the PHB isn't that bad and none of them are "liabilities".

The main complaint about the ranger class is that some of their abilities like Natural Explorer are both situational and when in use basically bypass certain parts of a survival/exploration experience. Without a ranger, these can be challenging situations while with one they can become trivial. So, parties with rangers don't tend to run into them since the ranger in the party just bypasses most of the challenge. Other than that, although they may not be "top tier", they are decent and at a table where optimization isn't much of a concern they should shine.

In addition, Tasha's introduced some options so that a ranger can swap out or add to the base options giving them either more they can do or something different from the base options. As for favored foe, it adds d4 damage, does NOT require an action, and can be applied proficiency bonus times/day - it requires concentration so you have to choose between this and a spell but it stacks with whatever fighting style you like to use (it also increases in damage as you level - at 6th level it is strictly better than hunter's mark damage wise). If you have a bonus action attack like Xbow expert, favored foe doesn't interfere with the bonus action attack while hunter's mark will. In addition, since a ranger is limited in spell slots, it provides a convenient way to get a modest damage increase without using another resource.

Finally, "optimization" in 5e is not the same as earlier editions. There are certain combinations in 5e that can do alot of single target damage - GWM, SS, and Agonizing blast Sorlock. The last uses resources and the first two really depend on the character having some way to get advantage or the -5 to hit actually does make a difference. In addition, PAM and XBE give bonus action attack options.

A variant human gloomstalker ranger with XBE, SS, and archery fighting style - operating in the dark will blow away most other classes in terms of single target damage since they have an easy way to obtain advantage on their targets which enables sharpshooter. However, if you want to believe they are a liability .. feel free.

Stack gloomstalker ranger with rogue levels for skills, expertise and sneak attack - amazing results). Gloomstalkers also pick up wisdom saves at level 7. Since wisdom is a secondary stat for rangers - they stack well with cleric levels as well. Life cleric combined with goodberries (if your DM allows it) gives the character the ability to generate immense amounts of healing using the berries. Twilight or peace clerics are both just strong choices if allowed. Twilight can stack well with any variant human ranger since they can pick up darkvision from it. A melee level 5 ranger/5 cleric could wade into combat using spirit guardians if they want. Anyway, neither a ranger or ranger multiclass are a "liability" in my opinion.

One of the characters I have played is a level 7 variant human/1 life cleric. They picked up resilient con at 1st level so at 8th now they are proficient with con, wis and dex saves. Point buy for stats so they started with 16 dex and wis. Archery fighting style and sharpshooter for fun. They will likely boost dex at ranger 8. They haven't been a liability at all so far.

Finally, 5e with the attunement limit on magic items and bounded accuracy results in most classes operating in a much narrower power band than previous editions. I haven't seen any class that is a "liability" to a party. The power "band" tends to broken by feats, not by classes.

[BoutsofInsanity]

Don't play a ranger in an urban or dungeon delving campaign.

Other than that, they're not a liability.

Especially powerful is Natural Explorer, when it applies Rangers can do things no other class can duplicate. Like retain passive perception while Navigating or Tracking or Foraging or Mapping. Or stealthily scout at full speed by staying a bit ahead of the party.

Also you missed that Favored Enemy gives a bonus to recalling things about your enemies, useful if your DM makes "knowledge checks".

One house-rule you might be able to talk your DM into is making is to get all the non-expertise bonuses from Natural Explorer in any terrain, especially if they're going to rule terrain on a micro-level as opposed to a macro-level. On a macro-level, most local campaign maps should usually only take place in 2 or so major terrains plus either Coastal or Mountains. Take a look at Faerun's map of the north as an example. But on a micro-level you might find them ruling that any copse of trees is forested terrain and every small bog area is swamp.

My god. Dawg finally. You are the first person I've seen talk about how freaking good Natural Explorer is. It's just absolutely incredible in a campaign that does overland travel. I'm a DM who loves overland travel and I'm just overjoyed to see someone else recognize how good it actually is.

My additional point. If your DM has you traveling to different locations a lot, ask them for the opportunity to retrain Natural Explorer so your key feature isn't useless if the campaign goes somewhere else that isn't covered by Natural Explorer!

THANK YOU Tanarii!

[CTurbo]

I do think they flubbed the 5e Ranger a little bit but it's far from a liability. It may be the least popular class, and it's had several revision attempts, but it's not THAT bad all the time. It's a decently rounded class that has something to offer in most circumstances. Compare it to the Fighter, Monk, and Barbarian that exist only for combat and quickly fade away into background fodder during the social and exploration pillars, and it doesn't look too terrible. It does look poor/weak next to a Paladin or any of the full casters.

Check out the US Revised Ranger. They overdid it a bit, but this version is much stronger than the phb version. Especially the Beastmaster. I'd actually play a Revised Beastmaster.

[nickl_2000]

My god. Dawg finally. You are the first person I've seen talk about how freaking good Natural Explorer is. It's just absolutely incredible in a campaign that does overland travel. I'm a DM who loves overland travel and I'm just overjoyed to see someone else recognize how good it actually is.

My additional point. If your DM has you traveling to different locations a lot, ask them for the opportunity to retrain Natural Explorer so your key feature isn't useless if the campaign goes somewhere else that isn't covered by Natural Explorer!

THANK YOU Tanarii!

Natural Explorer is amazing in the right campaign, if your DM worries about it. My experience is that most DMs pretty much ignore the exploration pillar of the game, or it is minor compared to the Combat and Social pillars. You hear about combat focused games, you hear about social focused games, I've yet to ever hear about an exploration focused game (but I also haven't looked for it or asked about it). It sounds like with you as a DM it would be amazing and feel really good, at my table it's a waste to have that ability.

[KorvinStarmast]

I have played, and been allied with, gloomstalker Ranger. The 'ally" was in a tier 3 campaign and he was both lethal and flexible. (Conjure Animals comes on line at level 9).
No matter what favored enemy or terrain you might have, your Archery Fighting Style coupled with your spells will always be live. Yes, take Archery.

Goodberry can be sustenance or extra healing, especially if you have slots left over. Fog Cloud and Entangle are good battlefield control options. Never used goodberry as a Ranger, but Fog Cloud and Entangle were used a lot. (As well as Hunters Mark).

Spike Growth too at higher levels.
If you boost wis, but MAD is a Ranger frustration when it comes to spell casting.

Pass without Trace basically lets your party get surprise on virtually any enemy.
If your group plays as a team, yeah, PWT is very helpful.

Conjure Animals adds a ton of damage and health to an encounter. It sure has its moments, but a lot of resistance/immunity issues arise insofar as damage.

The class would unironically be much stronger if Favored Enemy, Natural Explorer and Hunter's Mark were cut wholesale so that people don't think you need to focus on bad low impact features or concentrate on spells that do abysmal damage with no control whatsover. Hunters Mark isn't bad. But it's not the end all/be all of Ranger.

Horizon Walker gives you a bonus action teleport for your melee or archery needs.
Monster Slayer (wizard slayer) helps you shut down enemy spellcasters a few times a day.
Even just the basic Hunter has some nice features.
Also played Hunter. Worked fine.

@BoutsofInsanity: in ToA, my Ranger shone often in the wilds of Chult. He was the party leader for a lot of reasons, despite having a Charisma of 9. The rest of the party was Bard (lore) and Paladin (Devotion) and Cleric (Nature) with a Monk arriving after the Paladin player quit. (RL scheduling issues).

[Psyren]

I'm aware that Tasha's gave us some alternate class features. And they're less incredibly situational than the things they replace, but in the process they sacrifice all the flavor the class had left, and after all that they're still not good. Like, Favored Foe is just a flat damage bonus against anybody (one smaller than a Hunter's Mark), which manages to be even more boring than the fighter's Style, and his doesn't run out of charges.

1) Rangers get a Style too.
2) The Tasha's features have plenty of flavor.
3) Favored Foe might not be as strong as Hunters Mark, but it's not far behind at low levels (average damage 1 less), and the latter costs a spell slot. FF is also useful on rangers that are bonus-action starved, like BM and TWF ones. BM in particular not only needs its bonus action every turn but also its pet wouldn't get the HM bonus anyway, so you might as well use FF if you're not concentrating on anything else. (And even if you do concentrate on something else for a bit, you can benefit from FF on the same round you reapply it.)


Several of the subclasses are conceptually cool, but their actual mechanics are nowhere near enough to make up for the base class.

Like... none of them? Have you read Gloomstalker? Fey Wanderer? Swarmkeeper? The new BM?

Ranger might not be the best class in the game or anything, but I'd put them over Monk and probably Barbarian overall. They certainly scale better in higher tiers than both of those, and have more party utility and approaches to solving problems.

[CMCC]

Rangers are good. Like, pretty good. This isn’t 2016.

[CMCC]

Ranger might not be the best class in the game or anything, but I'd put them over Monk and probably Barbarian overall. They certainly scale better in higher tiers than both of those, and have more party utility and approaches to solving problems.

Def better than rogue and artificer. Fighter and warlock debatable but possible.

Do people forget that rangers get spells? Good spells.

[LudicSavant]

My god. Dawg finally. You are the first person I've seen talk about how freaking good Natural Explorer is. It's just absolutely incredible in a campaign that does overland travel. I'm a DM who loves overland travel and I'm just overjoyed to see someone else recognize how good it actually is.

You should check out other overland travel abilities too. For example the Totem Barbarian can take Elk at 6 to double overland travel speed.

A lot of people gloss over this and only think about doubling your fast pace, but you can also think of it as allowing the entire party to use all of the abilities that require moving at a Slow pace while moving at a speed equivalent to a Fast pace.

Contrast to, say, Natural Explorer's ability to allow you to move stealthily (just one of the benefits of a slow pace) while moving alone (instead of benefitting the entire party), at a Normal (not Fast) pace, and only in your favored terrain (instead of any terrain). Something that Tanarii claimed no other class could duplicate (which isn't the case).

If you want some really good evidence that people just totally blank on this implication of Elk Totem, you can find multiple Barbarian guides that rate Wolf Totem 6 higher than Elk Totem 6, even though Elk Totem 6 is a direct buff to Wolf 6 (it does the same thing, plus more). Some folks just fail to make that connection that hey, if you can double your slow pace, then you effectively are doing Slow Pace stuff at Fast Pace.

[BoutsofInsanity]

You should check out other overland travel abilities too. For example the Totem Barbarian can take Elk at 6 to double overland travel speed.

A lot of people gloss over this and only think about doubling your fast pace, but you can also think of it as allowing the entire party to use all of the abilities that require moving at a Slow pace while moving at a speed equivalent to a Fast pace.

Contrast to, say, Natural Explorer's ability to allow you to move stealthily (just one of the benefits of a slow pace) while moving alone (instead of benefitting the entire party), at a Normal (not Fast) pace, and only in your favored terrain (instead of any terrain). Something that Tanarii claimed no other class could duplicate (which isn't the case).

If you want some really good evidence that people just totally blank on this implication of Elk Totem, you can find multiple Barbarian guides that rate Wolf Totem 6 higher than Elk Totem 6, even though Elk Totem 6 is a direct buff to Wolf 6 (it does the same thing, plus more). Some folks just fail to make that connection that hey, if you can double your slow pace, then you effectively are doing Slow Pace stuff at Fast Pace.

It's not a flat buff. They do different things. You are right though, Elk is very strong.

Wolf enables you specifically to do those things without being restricted by distance. So Wolf enables the Barbarian to be able to essentially scout ahead of the party performing an outrider role where Elk empowers the party to move as a herd at a rapid pace. It would depend on the flavor and what kind of benefits you are looking for when traveling.

Again, my interpretation of scouting is that the scouting party member moves ahead of the travel group a good distance, disappearing out of sight while they move several hundred feet ahead getting the lay of the land so to speak. If your interpretation of scouting is different than Elk is a flat buff.

[RogueJK]

taking a 1-3 level ranger dip before multiclassing the rest of my build into something competent

Pre-Tasha's, that was the best tactic for a Ranger. 2-5 levels of Ranger (Hunter or Gloomstalker), and then switch to something like Fighter, Rogue, Cleric, or Druid.

Post-Tasha's - especially with the newer Ranger subclasses like Gloomstalker, Fey Wanderer, Swarmkeeper, or Drakewarden - Ranger is now viable as a single class, with enough interesting class/subclass abilities available to carry you from low levels through to high levels. Even Beastmaster, arguably the worst PHB subclass overall, is now functional.


But if you find the Post-Tasha's Ranger still lacking, perhaps take a look at the older UA Revised Ranger. That may be the fix you seek to improve the PHB Ranger while still retaining some of the PHB Ranger's flavor. Although it's not directly compatible with any of the published subclasses, there are 3 included subclass options: https://media.wizards.com/2016/dnd/downloads/UA_RevisedRanger.pdf


Otherwise, you could make your own Ranger-ish character that doesn't actually have any Ranger class levels. Things like Nature/Twilight Cleric, Land/Stars Druid, Ancients Paladin, Scout Rogue, Archfey Warlock, or Arcane Archer/Battlemaster Fighter (or various multiclass combinations of these classes) can all be built to emulate a Ranger to one extent or another. Even something a bit further out there, like a Bladesinger Wizard or Valor/Swords Bard with Nature/Survival/Animal Handling proficiency who focuses on using nature- and elemental-related spells, could work as a quasi-Ranger.

Then feats like Wood Elf Magic, Fey Touched, Magic Initiate Druid, and/or Ritual Caster Druid can add in additional nature-y magic options.

[LudicSavant]

It's not a flat buff. They do different things.

You're sorely mistaken. Look again. It really is a flat buff, a rare case of an ability being strictly superior to another. Elk allows you to do the same thing Wolf does, better than Wolf does it. The fact that it can also do other things does not somehow diminish that.

Here's what Wolf does: "You gain the hunting sensibilities of a wolf. You can track other creatures while traveling at a fast pace, and you can move stealthily while traveling at a normal pace."

Those are things that anyone can do at a slow pace. All Wolf does is let you move faster while doing them. Elk also lets you move faster while doing them.

A Wolf Totem can move stealthily while traveling at a normal pace, but an Elk totem can move stealthily while moving faster than that, because their Slow pace is significantly faster than Wolf's normal pace.


Wolf enables you specifically to do those things without being restricted by distance. So Wolf enables the Barbarian to be able to essentially scout ahead of the party performing an outrider role Yep, Elk lets you do that. Faster than a Wolf can do it, even.

where Elk empowers the party to move as a herd at a rapid pace. Elk lets you do that too.

[Dr.Samurai]

I mean I played a ranger at a low optimization table and was the most powerful one there by dint of choosing Sharpshooter as a feat.
Just to echo this, I play alongside a ranger at a low-OP table and he routinely does the most damage with Sharpshooter.

The Grave Cleric will set him up with Guiding Bolts or his Channel Divinity that doubles damage at times. But even without that, he's the one usually killing things.

[BoutsofInsanity]

You're sorely mistaken. Look again. It really is a flat buff, a rare case of an ability being strictly superior to another. Elk allows you to do the same thing Wolf does, better than Wolf does it. The fact that it can also do other things does not somehow diminish that.

Here's what Wolf does: "You gain the hunting sensibilities of a wolf. You can track other creatures while traveling at a fast pace, and you can move stealthily while traveling at a normal pace."

Those are things that anyone can do at a slow pace. All Wolf does is let you move faster while doing them. Elk also lets you move faster while doing them

A Wolf Totem can move stealthily while traveling at a normal pace, but an Elk totem can move stealthily while moving faster than that, because their Slow pace is significantly faster than Wolf's normal pace.

Yep, Elk lets you do that. Faster than a Wolf can do it, even.
Elk lets you do that too.

I reread the ability. I stand corrected.

[ATHATH]

A lot of people here are saying that the rangers in their parties are great because they have Sharpshooter and the like, while ignoring that, uh, archery is not a ranger-exclusive ability or anything. Fighters get access to the archery fighting style too, and sooner than rangers get it (making them a better dip if you just want the +2 to ranged attack rolls on another class). And if you're not a variant human, fighters get the sharpshooter+crossbow expert combo up 2 levels before rangers do. What do rangers have that make the power of sharpshooter/archery unique to them?

[Unoriginal]

Rangers are not a liability.

A liability is a character who actively hinders the group by being here.

[Dr.Samurai]

A lot of people here are saying that the rangers in their parties are great because they have Sharpshooter and the like, while ignoring that, uh, archery is not a ranger-exclusive ability or anything. Fighters get access to the archery fighting style too, and sooner than rangers get it (making them a better dip if you just want the +2 to ranged attack rolls on another class). And if you're not a variant human, fighters get the sharpshooter+crossbow expert combo up 2 levels before rangers do. What do rangers have that make the power of sharpshooter/archery unique to them?
I would not have made my comment if the ranger in my party was a liability. Another way to read my comment is "The ranger in my party is low optimization, and not only is he not a liability, he consistently deals the most damage in the party with Sharpshooter".

It is very difficult to be a liability in a party, given that the ranger has HP and AC and can make attacks and cast spells like everyone else. People may not like the suite of class features that the ranger gets, but it hardly makes the ranger a "liability".

[Aalbatr0ss]

Rangers are not a liability.

A liability is a character who actively hinders the group by being here.

I think they’re saying that if you aren’t playing a crossbow expert hexadin coffeelock you aren’t living up to your full potential of 900 DPR, and therefore you’re letting someone down?

[Psyren]

A lot of people here are saying that the rangers in their parties are great because they have Sharpshooter and the like, while ignoring that, uh, archery is not a ranger-exclusive ability or anything. Fighters get access to the archery fighting style too, and sooner than rangers get it (making them a better dip if you just want the +2 to ranged attack rolls on another class). And if you're not a variant human, fighters get the sharpshooter+crossbow expert combo up 2 levels before rangers do. What do rangers have that make the power of sharpshooter/archery unique to them?

I don't think anyone is saying it's unique to them, but they get more mileage out of being the party Dex-monkey / scout so you may as well go archery with one. Like a Fighter might be the best shot in the game if they focus on it, but when I can be a close second-best as a Ranger while also feeding and stealthing the whole party through hostile territory I'm probably going with that option.

But if it's raw pincushion damage output you're looking for, the ranger spell list is the place to look, particularly at high levels with things like Guardian of Nature or Swift Quiver.

[animewatcha]

I might be missing this somewhere, but I thought the very first thing would be for the DM to allow the ranger the Concentration-less hunter's mark in UA rather than the Tasha one.

[Kane0]

I might be missing this somewhere, but I thought the very first thing would be for the DM to allow the ranger the Concentration-less hunter's mark in UA rather than the Tasha one.

My preference is to keep the Tashas one as is except that it also applies to allies (keeping the once per turn) attacking the same target (if they can see and hear you within 30 or 69 feet). Makes it way more attractive (especially for rangers that get pets/summons) without being a raw damage increase for themselves (since there are spells that already do that(

[Merudo]

I've got an idea for a character in an upcoming campaign that seems like a Ranger would be the best thematic choice.

I've heard that Ranger was bad in the past, but never looked too close into the details of why before. And it's a pretty low-optimization table and I've got a bit of a munchkin impulse that I try to retrain to keep myself in line with everybody else, so I figured that taking a sub-par class would be a good exercise.

And wow is Ranger terrible in this game.

The Favored Enemy power is not only limited to a single creature type (two at lvl 6+, three at 14+), but it doesn't actually do anything except teach you their language and give advantage on tracking rolls? Not so much as a +1 to hit, until you hit the level 20 capstone?
Natural Explorer would be pretty decent utility for getting the party around the map and exploring, except that it only works in a single terrain type? So as soon as the party leaves the mountain range, I go back to being as useless at dealing with the wilderness as the wizard and the rogue are. Probably more so.
I can tell when monsters are around... but not where they are, or even how many. I'm burning a spell slot per minute to get [you cannot rest while enemies are nearby] and nothing else.
What little spellcasting ability you have is full of things like first level spells that are dramatically worse than everybody else's cantrips, but still cost half my magical resources for the day.
Moving full speed through difficult terrain, a thing that Rangers have been known for since like, AD&D, is something you have to wait until 8th level for.
The big dramatic stealth bonus you get is something that requires a full minute to set up, and is broken if you move or take any kind of action.

I'm aware that Tasha's gave us some alternate class features. And they're less incredibly situational than the things they replace, but in the process they sacrifice all the flavor the class had left, and after all that they're still not good. Like, Favored Foe is just a flat damage bonus against anybody (one smaller than a Hunter's Mark), which manages to be even more boring than the fighter's Style, and his doesn't run out of charges. No longer needing to sleep at 10th level would be kinda interesting... except that even without exhaustion you still need to long rest to refresh any of your other powers, anemic as they are.

I could go on, but you've probably heard it all before. Several of the subclasses are conceptually cool, but their actual mechanics are nowhere near enough to make up for the base class. Is there a way to play a Ranger that doesn't suck, without either begging the GM to write a whole new class or like, taking a 1-3 level ranger dip before multiclassing the rest of my build into something competent?

Or would I be better off just playing a Fighter with the Linguist feat to simulate all the useful parts of this class?

You are making a few mistakes.

The core of the Ranger class (fighting style, extra attack, spells) is great, and adding a bunch of extra features that are near useless (PHB) or low-powered (Tasha's) doesn't make the class any worse.

The Ranger's subclasses don't suck, and the Gloom Stalker specifically is very competitive.

[Kane0]

Gloom Stalker, Fey Warden, Swarmkeeper, Tashas Beastmaster/Drakewarden, all really good subclasses (the others are still solid but not my favourites)

[Contrast]

A lot of people here are saying that the rangers in their parties are great because they have Sharpshooter and the like, while ignoring that, uh, archery is not a ranger-exclusive ability or anything. Fighters get access to the archery fighting style too, and sooner than rangers get it (making them a better dip if you just want the +2 to ranged attack rolls on another class). And if you're not a variant human, fighters get the sharpshooter+crossbow expert combo up 2 levels before rangers do. What do rangers have that make the power of sharpshooter/archery unique to them?

The point wasn't 'rangers are the best because they can take Sharpshooter'. OPs observation was that they play at a low optimisation table and wanted to know how to not be a liability while playing a ranger.

My observation was that in a low optimisation table rangers are far from a liability and in fact by utilising pretty basic optimisation (i.e. take good feats and choose good spells) you will contribute just fine and may well in fact be well above average given SS/archery style is just inherantly strong.

[LudicSavant]

OPs observation was that they play at a low optimisation table and wanted to know how to not be a liability while playing a ranger.

My observation was that in a low optimisation table rangers are far from a liability and in fact by utilising pretty basic optimisation (i.e. take good feats and choose good spells) you will contribute just fine and may well in fact be well above average given SS/archery style is just inherantly strong.

Agreed. At a low-op table you should have no trouble making a Ranger contribute just fine, especially in the year 2022.

I haven't really kept up to date with how the Ranger performs with recent splats, but Gloomstalker was already more than competent enough to shine in a low-op party.

[Tanarii]

It's not a flat buff. They do different things. You are right though, Elk is very strong.Also, Elk also isn't core.



Again, my interpretation of scouting is that the scouting party member moves ahead of the travel group a good distance, disappearing out of sight while they move several hundred feet ahead getting the lay of the land so to speak. If your interpretation of scouting is different than Elk is a flat buff.
It's up to DM interpretation what counts as a separate party, but IMO 60-70ft is sufficient. That's also the average distance at which a party that isn't being stealthy starts its encounter ranges, and is a pretty good real world analogue for how far away you have to be for quite loud conversation to sound like a whisper.

A DM certainly shouldn't require a ranger to be more than 120ft, which is the maximum starting encounter distance.