Graz'zt position name if he were in a relationship with Lolth

[MarkVIIIMarc]

Warning, if I am the DM of a game you are in, please don't read any further.


If I had more experience in evil relationships where everyone is just using everyone else, I feel I'd know this so my apologies.

In a game I DM for evil purposes of world domination Graz'zt has cultivated a personal relationship with Lolth. To tie this in with a player character's backstory, to weaken a human dominated kingdom's military Graz'zt is also using a human general Violet Starshadow patterned after Admiral Helena Cain of the 2004 Battlestar.

The characters should be able to get some interaction with either Starshadow or Graz'zt soon.

If Graz'zt is the Patron of the secretly Warlock Starshadow what is she to him? Is it simply his Warlock?

Same for the mutually beneficial relationship between Graz'zt and Lolth. Lolth no doubt is using Graz'zt for something. Graz'zt is using Lolth for material plane servants. Besides evil, what do I have any NPC Drow, non-Drow or whoever call the members of this relationship? What would Lolth and Graz'zt call eachother?

[KorvinStarmast]

What would Lolth and Graz'zt call each other?
She: Studmuffin
He: Legcuddles or just Legs

[MarkVIIIMarc]

She: Studmuffin
He: Legcuddles or just Legs

Honestly that's great. The person getting mislead into believing the relationship is real would say, "But I thought I was your little Studmuffin!". Or maybe embarrasingly, "Legcuddles, say it isn't soo!"

[KorvinStarmast]

We aim to please...looks like a very fun game, best wishes on it turning out well. :smallsmile:

[Unoriginal]

Warning, if I am the DM of a game you are in, please don't read any further.


If I had more experience in evil relationships where everyone is just using everyone else, I feel I'd know this so my apologies.

In a game I DM for evil purposes of world domination Graz'zt has cultivated a personal relationship with Lolth. To tie this in with a player character's backstory, to weaken a human dominated kingdom's military Graz'zt is also using a human general Violet Starshadow patterned after Admiral Helena Cain of the 2004 Battlestar.

The characters should be able to get some interaction with either Starshadow or Graz'zt soon.

If Graz'zt is the Patron of the secretly Warlock Starshadow what is she to him? Is it simply his Warlock?

Same for the mutually beneficial relationship between Graz'zt and Lolth. Lolth no doubt is using Graz'zt for something. Graz'zt is using Lolth for material plane servants. Besides evil, what do I have any NPC Drow, non-Drow or whoever call the members of this relationship? What would Lolth and Graz'zt call eachother?


Two question: is the General aware she is a Warlock, and is she aware the entity she's been in contact is Graz'zt?

As for what they would call each other, well, Lolth probably call him a laundry list of insults, "Food" or "Who?".

Graz'zt would likely call her with bombastic, hyperbolic and borderline nonsensical titles that are designed to both stroke her ego and insult her at the same time, such as "She Whose Presence Alone Causes Suffering", "Your Highness Whose Mind Is Exterior to Herself", "My Twice-Crossed Queen of All Elves", or "Empress of the Many Pitfalls". When he thinks she will hear about it only, though. Otherwise he would likely call her petty insults like 'that jerk', stuff like "the spider" or "the bloated she-elf" or "not Tasha".

I know it's beyond the scope of the question, but the plot summary you wrote made me think it could be fun to have involve Raxxivort as an ally to the PCs. He would most likely want Graz'zt's plans to fail and get him on Lolth's bad books.

[MarkVIIIMarc]

Two question: is the General aware she is a Warlock, and is she aware the entity she's been in contact is Graz'zt?

As for what they would call each other, well, Lolth probably call him a laundry list of insults, "Food" or "Who?".

Graz'zt would likely call her with bombastic, hyperbolic and borderline nonsensical titles that are designed to both stroke her ego and insult her at the same time, such as "She Whose Presence Alone Causes Suffering", "Your Highness Whose Mind Is Exterior to Herself", "My Twice-Crossed Queen of All Elves", or "Empress of the Many Pitfalls". When he thinks she will hear about it only, though. Otherwise he would likely call her petty insults like 'that jerk', stuff like "the spider" or "the bloated she-elf" or "not Tasha".

I know it's beyond the scope of the question, but the plot summary you wrote made me think it could be fun to have involve Raxxivort as an ally to the PCs. He would most likely want Graz'zt's plans to fail and get him on Lolth's bad books.

She is aware she is a Warlock and she is aware who Graz'zt is. Also honest, this is a long running campaign. I had this in the works before Tasha's.

I'm not familiar with Raxxivort. A demon who does is not in league with Graz'zt I assume?

[Chronos]

A less-powerful partner could be called "consort".

[Naanomi]

On the Cosmological stage, Grazzt isn't that much 'less' than Lolth if he is at all. He is the only demon lord in control of multiple layers of the abyss, has unique demon types in his service, has dealt with Gods before and come out ahead (albeit not to the degree he had planned). He's commonly put on the list of actual threats to Demogorgon for the title of Prince of Demons (Lolth never makes such lists)

[Unoriginal]

On the Cosmological stage, Grazzt isn't that much 'less' than Lolth if he is at all. He is the only demon lord in control of multiple layers of the abyss, has unique demon types in his service, has dealt with Gods before and come out ahead (albeit not to the degree he had planned). He's commonly put on the list of actual threats to Demogorgon for the title of Prince of Demons (Lolth never makes such lists)

Lolth is still ahead on the power scale, and not a small ammount, though.

She is a powerful goddess empowered by many worlds' worship, has two species/one species and one subspecies devoted to her, also has unique her own demon types, has shown herself capable of kicking Demogorgon out of his Abyssal realm, and one of her mortal priestesses was described as being able to rival a Demon Prince when Lolth empowered her for the occasion.

I agree that Graz'zt would be more likely than Lolth to take Demogorgon's crown, but it's because to him the Abyss is a place to conquer, while to Lolth it's a place to sleep while she does what actually matters.


She is aware she is a Warlock and she is aware who Graz'zt is. Also honest, this is a long running campaign. I had this in the works before Tasha's.

Then to answer the "If Graz'zt is the Patron of the secretly Warlock Starshadow what is she to him? Is it simply his Warlock?" question, I think it could be interesting if Starshadow was actually a threat to Graz'zt he took care to indebt to him early on.

Like "this person will likely get to the top on her own if left alone, and that would be a threat to my plan, so I'll sponsor her and let her climb to the top much faster than what she would have normally, and then she's an asset to me."



I'm not familiar with Raxxivort. A demon who does is not in league with Graz'zt I assume?

Raxxivort was Graz'zt's accountant until he stole a very powerful artifact from the Demon Prince's vaults. Now he's a demigod, with his own demiplane and everything, but is still hounded by entities Graz'zt directed at him, said entities hoping to steal his power.

To counter this, he created the Xvarts, a species of blue skinned humanoids in his image (but much shorter), and his basic MO is to show up on a world, general a bunch of Xvarts, and leave. Any divination or similar powers meant to find Raxxivort directs to the closest Xvart instead.

Amusingly Raxxivort is known to give Warlock pacts in exchange for interesting magic items.

[Naanomi]

I generally take a very 2e approach to divinity and planar power... Godhood gives a lot of personal power; but a ton of responsibilities, enemies, and vulnerabilities that make it harder to compete on the stage of planar politics. Lots of big players take active steps to avoid divinity, and being a God (even a major one) doesn't make you more influential than those who are not.

Asmodeus was more important than any given Power on Baator long before he ascended to divinity (after spending aeons avoiding it), etc. Those beings seeking divinity (like Orcus) are usually are doing so because they need a boost to compete with their non-divine enemies

[MarkVIIIMarc]

Then to answer the "If Graz'zt is the Patron of the secretly Warlock Starshadow what is she to him? Is it simply his Warlock?" question, I think it could be interesting if Starshadow was actually a threat to Graz'zt he took care to indebt to him early on.

Like "this person will likely get to the top on her own if left alone, and that would be a threat to my plan, so I'll sponsor her and let her climb to the top much faster than what she would have normally, and then she's an asset to me."


Thank you for the backstory. I snipped to show which portion I was replying to.

With Graz'zt's aid Starshadow plans on taking over the kingdom she serves and ruling WITH Graz'zt.

Oops for her, Graz'zt is set to be disappointed by Graz'zt. After using Starshadow to unwittingly weaken a great military power, one who 4 PC's had service or family in, Graz'zt plans on using Lolth's followers the Drow to take over the world then converting them to be his followers since he is more appealing.

Battlestar Spoiler
Remember Starshadow is patterned after 2004 Battlestar's Admiral Cain who was betrayed

[Samayu]

She: Studmuffin
He: Legcuddles or just Legs

Thankth for the LOLth