Aotrs Commander
2022-03-07, 02:51 PM
I am for various reasons, going through basically the universal monster rules and having a tidy-up/clarification session for my houserules. This perforce includes understanding the RAw and potentially RAI. (Can't sign on to the Paizo forums without clearing my cache and I'm damned if I'm doing that just because THAT website is notoriously janky, and Reddit did not provide much assistance, so I'm back here.)
I'm looking at Flight, as in the universal monster ability.
From Archives of Nethys, universal monster rules:
Flight (Ex or Su)
Source Bestiary 6 pg. 293, Pathfinder RPG Bestiary pg. 300, Bestiary 2 pg. 297, Bestiary 3 pg. 295, Bestiary 5 pg. 293
The creature can cease or resume flight as a free action. If the ability is supernatural, it becomes ineffective in an antimagic field, and the creature loses its ability to fly for as long as the antimagic effect persists.
Format: fly 30 ft. (average)
Location: Speed.
Okay. So, one of the things I'm doing it taking a good look at that "Ex or Su" stuff and actually DEFINING under what conditions something is Ex or Su. (I found one of DR, for instance. Maybe from 3.5, but that was good enough to put it down.)
Now, the thing is, Flight the universal monster ability does not appear to pertain to, well, anything that can fly. Or if it IS supposed to, why does it not say "see Fly skill" or somesuch, since it has, like no rules for it. So I am making a presumption that it is only supposed to be used on creatures that have a natural ability to fly which is not just part of their Fly speed. It feels like one of thse relics of 3.5 that PF just copy-pasted and didn't overhaul, except that wasn't really a thing in 3.5, save for maybe on the Beholder's entry.
I have not checked the ENTIRE Nethys bestiary, but I did do a search for "Flight" and the examples I looked at, the only time Flight special ability is mentioned is when it is to call out that the creature's flight is supernatural.
Thus I'm not sure what sort of flight would qualify for Flight (Ex). Since I have already seen automatons in said bestiary which don't fly using wings (rotors), which did NOT have this listed as a special ability.
So either:
a) This universal monster ability is intended to tacitly be attached to any creature with a fly speed. It's kind of illogical in that case though, since creatures with a swim speed don't have a Swim special ability, nor do creatures with a burrow or climb speed. In this case, it also does an extremely poor job, since the only thing it says for non-supernatural creatures is they can cease or resume flight as a free action. (I mean, technically, any creature with any speed can do that, so it's at best misleadingly redundant.) So I find this to be the least likely option.
b) It is INTENDED to be applied to any creature that does not fly via the use of wings (whether through magical or technological means or like, being a balloon-monster) and as such technically ought to have been on the aforementioned Automaton stats I looked at as an Ex and that was just a forgivable omission. As when you get down to it, the stat blocks also don't officially define what flying creatures have wings and what don't, either, since we're generally expected to extrapolate that fundementally from the fluff descriptions and common sense. I mean 99.99% of the time it is, as they say, obvious. I feel that appending the flight universal monster ability to anything that flies without using wings would not be a bad idea, and then it makes sense to define it as either Ex or Su.
c) It is largely only relevant for creatures that have specifically magical Su flight to note them as having such and thus the possibility of it being Ex can be largely ignored. But that is basically is an ability you kind of HAVE to write the line down for every time, because there's not an official way to put it into the stat blocks like some of the other universal monster rules. (I mean, it'd be trivial to just invent on so an appropriate stat blook to be Speed: 50' Fly (Good, Su), but...)
I know we're long past the point of even a quasi official answer at this stage, but it would be helpful if anyone could shed any light on this, or at least help convince me in my own mind which approach to take.
I'm looking at Flight, as in the universal monster ability.
From Archives of Nethys, universal monster rules:
Flight (Ex or Su)
Source Bestiary 6 pg. 293, Pathfinder RPG Bestiary pg. 300, Bestiary 2 pg. 297, Bestiary 3 pg. 295, Bestiary 5 pg. 293
The creature can cease or resume flight as a free action. If the ability is supernatural, it becomes ineffective in an antimagic field, and the creature loses its ability to fly for as long as the antimagic effect persists.
Format: fly 30 ft. (average)
Location: Speed.
Okay. So, one of the things I'm doing it taking a good look at that "Ex or Su" stuff and actually DEFINING under what conditions something is Ex or Su. (I found one of DR, for instance. Maybe from 3.5, but that was good enough to put it down.)
Now, the thing is, Flight the universal monster ability does not appear to pertain to, well, anything that can fly. Or if it IS supposed to, why does it not say "see Fly skill" or somesuch, since it has, like no rules for it. So I am making a presumption that it is only supposed to be used on creatures that have a natural ability to fly which is not just part of their Fly speed. It feels like one of thse relics of 3.5 that PF just copy-pasted and didn't overhaul, except that wasn't really a thing in 3.5, save for maybe on the Beholder's entry.
I have not checked the ENTIRE Nethys bestiary, but I did do a search for "Flight" and the examples I looked at, the only time Flight special ability is mentioned is when it is to call out that the creature's flight is supernatural.
Thus I'm not sure what sort of flight would qualify for Flight (Ex). Since I have already seen automatons in said bestiary which don't fly using wings (rotors), which did NOT have this listed as a special ability.
So either:
a) This universal monster ability is intended to tacitly be attached to any creature with a fly speed. It's kind of illogical in that case though, since creatures with a swim speed don't have a Swim special ability, nor do creatures with a burrow or climb speed. In this case, it also does an extremely poor job, since the only thing it says for non-supernatural creatures is they can cease or resume flight as a free action. (I mean, technically, any creature with any speed can do that, so it's at best misleadingly redundant.) So I find this to be the least likely option.
b) It is INTENDED to be applied to any creature that does not fly via the use of wings (whether through magical or technological means or like, being a balloon-monster) and as such technically ought to have been on the aforementioned Automaton stats I looked at as an Ex and that was just a forgivable omission. As when you get down to it, the stat blocks also don't officially define what flying creatures have wings and what don't, either, since we're generally expected to extrapolate that fundementally from the fluff descriptions and common sense. I mean 99.99% of the time it is, as they say, obvious. I feel that appending the flight universal monster ability to anything that flies without using wings would not be a bad idea, and then it makes sense to define it as either Ex or Su.
c) It is largely only relevant for creatures that have specifically magical Su flight to note them as having such and thus the possibility of it being Ex can be largely ignored. But that is basically is an ability you kind of HAVE to write the line down for every time, because there's not an official way to put it into the stat blocks like some of the other universal monster rules. (I mean, it'd be trivial to just invent on so an appropriate stat blook to be Speed: 50' Fly (Good, Su), but...)
I know we're long past the point of even a quasi official answer at this stage, but it would be helpful if anyone could shed any light on this, or at least help convince me in my own mind which approach to take.