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View Full Version : FUN TWF Build: Any Ideas?



goken04
2007-11-23, 02:40 PM
I would like some advice about how to make this idea mechanically better, w/o violating the nature of the build.

Ever since I read Complete Adventurer I've wanted to make this character, because I thought the very idea is intimidating. I fully realize that Two-Weapon Fighting is pretty significantly mechanically inferior to Two-Handed Weapons, but I think this TWF fighter would be more fun for a change (I have played a Leap Attacking, Greatsword, Frenzied Berserker and had a blast). I def. realize that EWP(Bastard Sword) is a waste of a feat, knowing full well that it gives me an average of only +1 to damage (well, technically +2 w/ this build, but still...). Still, I want to play a Two-Weapon Fighting, Bastard Sword using, Heavily armored Type. So, How can I make this idea (TWF BS) at least mechanically decent (for a melee character), if not optimized w/o losing the TWF or the Double Bastard Swords? This is the build I came up w/, any suggestions would be appreciated. I have access to nearly any books.

Human Samurai (CW) 1/Fighter 2/Lion-Totem Barbarian 1 (Whirling Frenzy Variant)/Warblade 3/Ronin(CW) 2/Scarlet Corsair(SW) 3 (ECL 12)

I haven't abilities scores yet, but this build needs pretty high Dex, decently high Str and could benefit form moderate Con and Int. Dump the crap out of Wis and Cha.

Now I realize, right off of the bat (OMG CW Samurai?!?!?!?!) that this build isn't the greatest damage dealer or even the greatest TWFer the game can create. However, I do think that it is quite possibly the strongest 2 Bastard Sword Wielding TWF it can be for it's level w/o the Two-Headed Template. I also think that it can be played decently from Level 1 on and, at MOST, only takes 1 level of Multiclassing Penalties (which could be easily avoided by taking more Ronin rather than the third level of Warblade).

Let me explain...

Feats:
Samurai 1 - Human: TWF, Character: Oversize TWF, Samurai Bonus Feat: EWP(Bastard Sword)
Fighter 1 - Bonus: Weapon Focus (Bastard Sword) (Note: Could be exchanged for another feat; Not essential to the build, but taken to offset the TWF Penalties. Essentially, you only take a -1 to your BAB for your first attacks w/ each Bastard Sword)
Barbarian 1 - Character: Power Attack
Warblade 1
Fighter 2 - Bonus: Leap Attack
Warblade 2 - Character: Improved TWF
Ronin 1
Ronin 2
Scarlet Corsair 1 - Character: Extra Rage, Bonus: Improved Feint
Scarlet Corsair 2
Scarlet Corsair 3
Warblade 3- Character: Greater TWF

Class Features of Note:
(Barbarian) Pounce and Whirling Frenzy: Self-Explanatory.
(Ronin) Bonzai Charge: Like Shock Trooper's Heedless Charge, except there is no benefit to weilding a 2H-Weapon and the -2 AC you automatically get from a charge is added to the damage.
(Scarlet Corsair) Corsair's Feint: Feint as a free action 1/2d4 rounds.
(Ron. and SC) Sneak Attack: Total of +2d6!
(Warblade) Stances and Maneuvers: HOORAY!

Full attack (assuming at least 16 STR by level 12 and +4 from BoGS, as well as 2 +1 BS, well w/in level 12 WBL)
Primary: +17/+12/+7 Damage: 1d10+5(STR)+1(Enh) per hit
Secondary: +17/+12/+7 Damage: 1d10+5(STR)+1(Enh) per hit
Average Damage: Just hitting 2/3 of the time, that's still 46 damage per round on average.

But what's really fun is his favored tactic:

Leap-Attacking-Bonzai-Whirling-Frenzy-Pouncing Charge.
Primary: +19/+19/+14/+9 Damage: 1d10+7(STR)+1(Enh)+24(LA-PA, -12 to AC) per hit
Secondary: +19/+14/+9 Damage: 1d10+7(STR)+1(Enh)+24(LA-PA) per hit
Average Damage: Still assuming his two lowest BAB attacks miss, he does an average of 187.5 damage per round. He takes a total of -10 to his AC (Whirling Frenzy adds 2), but who cares? His enemy is dead.

If he goes first (common enough, since the character needs to have at least +4 Dex), he can get SA. If he doesn't go first, he can feint as a free action for this first round's attack and get SA. With SA on the five attacks we are assuming to have hit, that's a total average damage of 222.5.

I realize he's not 100% optimized, and I don't want him to be (since that would require him to drop TWF and BSs entirely). But considering he uses not one, but TWO commonly known to be suboptimal choices, PLUS took a level of CW Samurai, I think he has a pretty respectable damage output. Any suggestiongs on how to improve this build?

I'm not sure what Maneuvers/Stances I'd take, but probably at least the Wolf Fang Strike Maneuver. Suggestions?

Things I considered: Dropping WF and Extra Rage (which gives me 3 Whirling Frenzies a day, which is nice. Possibly drop Greater TWF instead) for Improved Bullrush and Storm of Flying Strikes (Knocks opponents prone if they don't make a fort save). To do this, though, you might as well take Shock Trooper (b/c you have all the Pre-reqs. at this point), making the Ronin levels nearly useless. But if you drop them, you can't get into Scarlet Corsair. At this point, the build needs reworked entirely.

Exotic Weapon Master is a possibility, but the problem is that nearly none of the abilities would work for Bastard Swords. If a DM would allow you to take Flurry of Strikes and/or Twin Exotic Weapon Fighting (I can see reasons they might, character-wise), then a level of two of EWM fit into the build might be nice.

After level 12, I'm thinking continuing in Warblade, to try to get as many TWF-related Tigerclaw maneuvers as possible. If continuing w/ the build as is, I'd def. pick up Storm of Flying Strikes. Any ideas of how to finish off this build?

martyboy74
2007-11-23, 02:48 PM
At the the level that you're at, wounding weapons are nice. They're a little expensive (+2 each), but can be quite useful. Also, if you can get hast of some form or another, you can get another attack at your full bonus.

If you switch out Weapon Specialization for Improved Critical, you can double your odds of getting a critical. At 5 attacks per round, you'd get one crit per round on average.

cupkeyk
2007-11-23, 02:49 PM
Get Ancestral weapon and use it to enhance your bastard sword into a Sun Blade. This is now your off hand weapon. It is treated as a light weapon too but is a bastard sword in all regards.

How about Kensai for more Asian appeal.

VerdugoExplode
2007-11-23, 02:51 PM
I would recommend replacing all of this with straight warblade, the higher level maneuvers you would be missing out on can make two weapon fighting a massively good time with you rolling an obscene amount of attacks every round, easily eclipsing the amounts you currently have written. Exotic weapon proficiency is actually a fairly good choice with a warblade as their Weapon Aptitude ability means they can change it to any exotic weapon they might pick up with an hour of training in the morning.

You can take a dip into barbarian for the pounce but a straight warblade focusing on tiger claw maneuvers can do ridiculous things using two weapons.

goken04
2007-11-23, 03:04 PM
I would recommend replacing all of this with straight warblade, the higher level maneuvers you would be missing out on can make two weapon fighting a massively good time with you rolling an obscene amount of attacks every round, easily eclipsing the amounts you currently have written. Exotic weapon proficiency is actually a fairly good choice with a warblade as their Weapon Aptitude ability means they can change it to any exotic weapon they might pick up with an hour of training in the morning.

You can take a dip into barbarian for the pounce but a straight warblade focusing on tiger claw maneuvers can do ridiculous things using two weapons.

Like what? I went through all the Tigerclaw maneuvers before I started this build and I only picked out 5 TWF maneuvers. I understand that Girallon's Windmill Flesh Rip is awesome and so is Raging Mongoose, but I couldn't get those by level 12. Keep in mind, as well, for my first WB level my initiator level is 2. By the time I get my second, my initiator is 4. And it's 7 by the time I get my third level of WB, so I can choose some higher level stuff.

AslanCross
2007-11-23, 03:51 PM
First of all, I approve of fighting with two bastard swords. (See avatar)

Anyway.
I'd drop the Scarlet Corsair levels for Warblade. Feinting is not really going to give you that much of a boost especially if your sneak attack is only +2d6. If you really want to use Sneak Attack, replace Scarlet Corsair and Warblade levels with Swordsage and get Shadow Hand disciplines. The Assassin's Stance will give you a 2d6 boost to Sneak Attack, raising it to 3d6. There are a couple of Swordsage maneuvers that can trigger Sneak Attack. (Distracting Ember is the first that comes to mind)

There are other maneuvers that you can benefit from. They won't be TWF maneuvers, but they'll certainly give you more flexibility. Mithral Tornado, Wall of Blades, etc.

Btw, it's "Banzai Charge." "Bonzai" is closer to the term for a small potted tree.