Favorite Magic/Power System

[SteveLightblade]

Since many RPGs take place in a world that is unlike our own, or perhaps a more fantastical version of our own, many of these games have players and enemies alike have the abilities to use special powers that are fantastic or supernatural in origin. Since many of these games have to balance the use of these special powers with normal abilities, there is usually some kind of limitation as well. What is your favorite "magic" system in an RPG?

To define the term, "Magic" refers to any non normal abilities, whether powered by a supernatural force, Science!, or some other special force that is distinct from regular skills and abilities that are considered "normal". This term is very nebulous, so you may have to add more to the definition yourself.

This thread covers the entire extent of a magic system, including but not limited to: resources/limitations, powers, external effects, effect on the worldbuilding, fluff, effectiveness compared to nonmagical abilities, and items.

I actually really like the pre 4e magic system for D&D. For some reason, spell slots, CL scaling, and the saving throws are all simple to understand and use ways to play a caster.

On the other hand, I also do like the system in both WFRP and Call of Cthulhu for the same reason of magic being able to create more issues to deal with, and having a trade off of a short term problem for a long term one.

[Telok]

Ooh, so many options that do many different things...

CoC is nice for magic being some force beyond rational knowledge & understanding. Especially since the bad guys can have truely terrible powers and you don't have to worry about PCs spamming it if they can duplicate it, just slap a 3d10 sanity cost plus human sacrifice on it to make it an instant "crazy NPC cultist only" spell that still totally makes sense in the game world.

The Warhammer systems are nice for dangerous magic, but they don't always have good math behind them. They're an easy system to accidentally screw up mechanically. Ideally you want to give players choices between fast/strong+danger and slow/weak+safe for the casting, plus a choice of "fast power-up with more danger" and "slow power-up with greater saftey margins" as the character progresses.

Several point buy supers games have good power systems that do "magic" just as well as the random comic book powers. Particularly nice is the ones that let you put different limit types on your magic power. Those let you build your 3/day caster, skill based caster, risk based caster, and others, any way you like for your character.

[Mastikator]

I prefer classless levelless systems over classed and leveled. Thus I also prefer magic to fit into a skill based system. I also think that the prevalence of magic should correlate with the number of magical skills, if magic is rare then a single "magic" skill is fine, if magic is commonplace then I prefer when it's split between multiple skills.

I generally prefer systems that reward creativity, that offer magic that isn't just for combat, I prefer low powered . I prefer mana systems over spell slots.

I also generally really prefer it when theme and mechanics come together, if magic is supposed to be volatile and dangerous to use then magical fumble tables are a good thing (but then you can't have a world where magic is common because wizards would be dying left right and center from the chaos of their spells)

[Batcathat]

I might change my mind after thinking on it, but the first one that strikes me is Mutants & Masterminds. I love being able to build my own abilities rather than just picking a class or choosing spells and M&M is pretty easy to use while still being very flexible.

For the most flavor, maybe Spire (https://rowanrookanddecard.com/product/spire-rpg/), though that might be my love of the game and the setting's flavor in general, rather than the magic and powers in particular. I also haven't played it much (I should really get around to that...) so I can't say much about how well it works in practice.

[Anonymouswizard]

Unknown Armies is, hands down, the best magick system in an RPG. It's a much more cynnical take on the same basic ideas as Mage: the Ascension.

First off you get rituals, which have a specific effect for performing specific actions, rolling your skill, and maybe spending Charges. Plague of Hiccups is a classic, but you've got everything from creating ghost servants to getting a new identity in there. They have a brute force version in Gutter Magick, where you use symbolic logic to get one time bonuses.

Avatars are a step up. By making your life reflect that of a commonly held Archetype you gain powers related to that archetype, whether it be the Mother, the Hacker, the Unsung Champion, or the True King. Depending on how close you match the archetype you get one to four powers, with the best in the world potentially getting a fifth DIY power. You also get slightly better access to rituals.

Adepts are where the fun is. Adepts get power from obsession and paradox, exploiting seemingly paradoxical statements to get power over reality, assuming you charge up. If you don't perform the specific actions for your version of magick you get no mystical mojo. If you do you could get anything from flesh shaping (requires self harm to charge) or making movie clichés real (if you act out clichés). The highest levels of Adept Magick run from 'bring a fictional character to life' to 'change who the last President was'.

Both Adepts and Avatars have taboos, behaviours they can't engage in. If they do they either lose skill points (for Avatars) or all their Charges (for Adepts).


For more D&D style magic I like the way Blue Rose 2e does it. Learning a discipline gives you three basic spells, and then advancing it givesyou two additional spells. If you already know two of the basic spells when you first learn it you get another spell. Spells are at will, but problematic ones require a save against Fatigue to avoid spamming. It all feels very much like fantasy book magic.

Plus very few spells are inherently evil, for most they become corrupting if used without consent (important for things like the mind alteration spells).

[olskool]

The Design Mechanism's Mythras rpg is my favorite system with Animism, Folk Magic, Sorcery, Divine Magic and Mysticism all being practicable magic. The system is a Skill-Based, manna driven percentile system based on Chaosium's BRP system and is very flexible with a very broad power spectrum for the magic used.

[Tanarii]

Warhammer is probably my favorite. Especially any version that includes possible headsplosion.

I also like Forbidden Lands, which includes a chance a demon comes out of a rift and drags your character away to hell permanently.

Basically, any version that comes with risk of outright sudden death is my top choice. Followed by hard to cast in melee combat (can't get hit, AOs, or flat can't cast in melee). Followed by casting comes with a health/HP/fatigue cost.

[Pex]

Ars Magica is my favorite magic system. The structure of how it works makes it feel mystical. It's a process.

I'm also a fan of 3.5E/Dreamscarred Press for Pathfinder Psionics. It functions well within the games' framework. There is math involved but doing that math is what makes it fun for me.

[Lord Torath]

My extremely limited experience with magic systems:

Dungeons and Dragons (BECMI/2e AD&D)
Shadowrun 2E
Warhammer 40k 2E
Deathwatch (Warhammer 40 RPG)

Of those, I think my favorite is Shadowrun. I really like the drain mechanic.

Warhmmer40k 2E is probably my least favorite. Dealing Warp cards out always seemed to limit my high-level psykers. I paid 100 points for that 4th level psyker ability! I want to use it!

I guess that puts Warhammer40k RPG in the number 2 slot (optional on-the-fly casting levels with varying chances of accidentally summoning a daemon are fun - if terrifying), with moderately early Vancian D&D in the #3 spot.

If I can count the 2E Complete Psionics Handbook as a 5th system of magic, I'll put it between Shadowrun and Deathwatch. Revised 2E Psionics goes to the bottom of the list.

Favorite to Least Favorite:
Shadowrun 2E
2E AD&D Psionics
Deathwatch
2E AD&D Vancian
2E Warhammer 40k
2E AD&D Revised Psionics

[Faily]

Ars Magica is my favorite magic system. The structure of how it works makes it feel mystical. It's a process.


Another vote for Ars Magica.

The magic can be very flexible, or you can stick to formulaic magic if you prefer it more structured. I really like how mages become more powerful by studying and doing research instead of adventuring.

[Anonymouswizard]

I really like how mages become more powerful by studying and doing research instead of adventuring.

We could make a whole thread about advancement systems. Personally I like how Glitch/Chuubo's/Nobilis 3e does ity: ou decide on a quest/project your character want's to do and work towards it. When the quest has enough XP you reap the rewards (which could be improving your stats, but could also be more along the lines of 'I can now play the trumbone' or 'there is now a national holiday in honour of my cat'). You do get bonus XP for roleplaying properly or engaging with the other intended loops of the game, but it all feeds back towards those things you're working towards

The miracles system is also pretty good. Want to summon a kettle, fly to the moon, or survive setting yourself on fire? The game doesn't tell you 'you can't do that' (mostly, I believe not everybody can do the kettle summoning), but rather how much it'll cost you to achieve it

Plus in Nobilis and Glitch if you truly love the journal you've used every day since you were six you can turn it into a Treasure and enhance it.

[HumanFighter]

I don't know, I guess I like Mana-based systems for Magic. I know it may seem video-gamey, but I like it best nonetheless. There's so many cool things you can do with a Mana-based system, if you try and get creative with it. The homebrew system I've been working on uses such a Mana system. There's some drawbacks to it, like keeping track of yet another number on your character sheet, alongside HP, XP, money, etc.
I didn't want to completely rip off Elder Scrolls though so I gave Mana to the spellcastery classes, and Stamina to the warrior or thief-type classes, Mana and Stamina being mutually exclusive. Monks get Ki though, which is kind of a cross between the two stats. Different classes have different amounts of mana, like obviously a full-on Wizard gets more Mana than a Battlemage.
And each spell has a specific mana cost and specific effect. I tend to organize spells into 4 different categories: Tactical, Exploration/Utility, Ritual, and Improvised.

1. Tactical: Good to have these spells for combat. I've seen some systems (including ones I have made in the past) where spells are all pretty much improvised and kind of made-up on the spot, the GM and the player doing the casting having to "negotiate" the cost, effect, time it takes to cast, difficulty of cast, AOE, this and that and it just slows down combat horribly. I can see why a magic system like that would be cool and risky and dangerous (in theory) but in actual practice it is just not great most of the time. This is one advantage D&D has with their spell system. The D&D spells are written out with specific numbers, levels, descriptions, effects, etc. to keep the game moving at a decent pace, rather than having to make up something on the fly every time you want to cast a spell.

2. Exploration/Utility: This one gets a little more tricky as it can kind of blend and overlap with the other categories sometimes. With this category you got your movement-enhancing spells like Jump, Fly, Knock, Find Traps, Teleport, Telekinesis, Create Food, Detect Magic, Identify, etc. Useful little things that can be very helpful for adventuring, but don't necessarily get used in combat. You could have this category entirely improvised, but once again, sometimes you need specific costs and casting times for things. Part of the fun of being a spellcaster is strategizing and deciding whether to spend more resources on Utility, or combat.

3. Ritual: These are big, impactful type spells. World-changing, even. They usually have some dramatic effect, like bringing back someone from the dead, or changing the very face of the landscape. But they also have a high cost, usually more than just a few mana points or a daily spell slot. Often instead having some material component cost, like gold or the heart of a dragon, for example. They also tend to have longer casting times and may need multiple participants for it to work. These spells could also be called "Story" spells because sometimes entire campaigns can be based around them. A Ritual Spell might kick off a campaign, or maybe the point of the whole campaign is stopping the dark ritual from happening.

4. Improvised: You need your Wizard or Cleric to do something in a pinch that isn't necessarily covered in the rules? Try the improvised way. This might be simple as spending a few mana points or a couple of daily spell slots to do that one thing to keep the story moving, or maybe its just a fluff effect. Things can get pretty weird and off-the-wall with the improvised magic, so use it sparingly and rarely to avoid the game devolving into a chaotic mess, where anyone can just do anything. These spells might also require an Attribute check or skill check or something in addition to the spent mana points/spell slots, to keep it more balanced. As a GM I feel i can't just say, "No Improvised Magics! You can cast only what the RAW says you can!" because that would be missing out on the fun of improvised stuff that would keep the game fresh and interesting.

[Pauly]

I haven’t played magic in GURPS (historical and sci-fi only) but I really like the “tech tree” concept of learning new spells. i.e. you have to master pre-requisite lower level spells in order to unlock higher level spells of that type. You can be specialized in one field of magic or have a broader base capable of dealing with a wider range of situations.

I like the idea of mana pool magic, although the only playable version I’ve come across is Warhammer FRP with it’s random winds of chaos system.

[Anonymouswizard]

I don't know, I guess I like Mana-based systems for Magic. I know it may seem video-gamey, but I like it best nonetheless. There's so many cool things you can do with a Mana-based system, if you try and get creative with it. The homebrew system I've been working on uses such a Mana system. There's some drawbacks to it, like keeping track of yet another number on your character sheet, alongside HP, XP, money, etc.
I didn't want to completely rip off Elder Scrolls though so I gave Mana to the spellcastery classes, and Stamina to the warrior or thief-type classes, Mana and Stamina being mutually exclusive. Monks get Ki though, which is kind of a cross between the two stats. Different classes have different amounts of mana, like obviously a full-on Wizard gets more Mana than a Battlemage.

(Something something TES warriors run off a stamina bar, although IRC not to Dark Souls levels.)

Honestly, I recently stopped seeing the point of separate spell point tracks instead of combining it with the Fatigue track*. It tends to add on a consequence for reckless casting, although it also tends to require more rolls as more powerful spells tend to be more likely to cause fatigue (unless you go the GURPS route and just have them straight up drop you a number of points).

Not that multiple resources are inherently bad, I like it in Nobilis, Chuubo's Marvelous Wish Granting Engine, and Glitch. But those are also diceless, and split up their resources in different ways with different intents. The Costs in Glitch are designed to let you pull a high grade miraculous or mundane action out of your arse several times if necessary, which doing once will drain you in Nobilis without heavy investment into stats or MP.

Actually that reminds me of another potential issue with spell point systems, actions rarely become effortless. A minute fraction of your available pool, but rarely 'you know what, you just don't have to pay to do that anymore'.


Going more into how powers in Glitch work, you have five stats which each have a Cost associate with them and a level. If you want to perform an action you have to take points of Cost equal to the the action's level minus your level in the stat. But you can't have more than 108 points of any one Cost. Your mighty powers include:

Eide: the ability to impose your personal identity on the world. For high level factions the laws of physics are secondary to your identity.
Flore: the ability to connect to things of Creation. You technically shouldn't be able to do this, but you can do cool stuff like sensing your anchors, teleporting to them, or enhancing them.
Lore: understanding of the Void outside creation. It allows you to bind alien Not-creatures and Not-objects and use them effectively. Kind of like Flore, but you're meant to have it.
Wyrd: the strength of your powers inherent to being a member of the Not-nobility of the Not-reality that composes the Void. It can be used to destroy stuff, you're good at destroying stuff.
Ability: the capacity to do normal stuff, like paying your bills, remembering to shower, or explaining to the noce police officer why you're not wearing trousers. You're probably not very good at this.

Interestingly magic is done with Ability, as it's something mortals can do. The other stats are for Miracles.

You can also purchase Gifts that just let you do a thing, using a DIY Gift design system based on the various actions you can do with the stats. If you want to be able to be immortal, destroy anything by pointing at it, or get out of any conversation you can do that! Just pay the CP and note the Gift on your sheet, you won't ever have to pay the Cost for that trick!

* Obvious requirement that the game uses fatigue.

[Pex]

I haven’t played magic in GURPS (historical and sci-fi only) but I really like the “tech tree” concept of learning new spells. i.e. you have to master pre-requisite lower level spells in order to unlock higher level spells of that type. You can be specialized in one field of magic or have a broader base capable of dealing with a wider range of situations.

I like the idea of mana pool magic, although the only playable version I’ve come across is Warhammer FRP with it’s random winds of chaos system.

That aspect of GURPS magic I like. I enjoy character building and this method reinforces that. I don't care for the implementation of how GURPS does it as I mentioned in another thread in terms of requiring useless spells and spells that don't do anything effective until the combat is over, but spell prerequisites has a logic I find fun in doing.

[meschlum]

I prefer classless levelless systems over classed and leveled. Thus I also prefer magic to fit into a skill based system. I also think that the prevalence of magic should correlate with the number of magical skills, if magic is rare then a single "magic" skill is fine, if magic is commonplace then I prefer when it's split between multiple skills.

I generally prefer systems that reward creativity, that offer magic that isn't just for combat, I prefer low powered . I prefer mana systems over spell slots.

I also generally really prefer it when theme and mechanics come together, if magic is supposed to be volatile and dangerous to use then magical fumble tables are a good thing (but then you can't have a world where magic is common because wizards would be dying left right and center from the chaos of their spells)

I am rather fond of the system and setting in Reve, the Dream Ouroboros (https://www.malcontentgames.com/), which seems like it would satisfy all your needs!

The core conceit of the game is that everything (including the player characters) is a dragon's dream, and it's possible to manipulate the dreams, thus creating magic.

There are four skills for using magic, each focusing on a different aspect of the dream. Spells to reshape the world (turn all air in a region into water to get a spring, or a flood), spells to affect the senses and summon allies (disguise, invisibility, calling guardian beasts), spells to infuse magic into items (from healing potions to enchanted swords or flying brooms), and spells of nightmares and waking up (curses, polymorph effects, and other bad news). It's possible to learn all the skills, though the last tends to interact poorly with the others.

Many of the spells are quirky and benefit from creative applications - a spell that protects you from anything green, for instance. Combine that with paint and it's suddenly a lot more useful than expected! While there is a spell that turns air into fire, making for a fireball stand in, it's also immobile once cast and lasts a long time, so it's more of a terrain obstacle than a direct damage tool.

Spells are cast by shifting your awareness to be closer to the dragon's minds, and making changes there. You spend mana points to travel in the 'spell realm', and to cast the spells - each spell can be prepared in different sections of the realm (the overall map is rather large, and split into many sections). However, you don't need to trigger spells right away, and can store them for later use - the spells will go off as soon as you return to the same part of the 'spell realm', so you can set up interesting combos - or problematic ones - based on where and what you prepare. The advantage of preparing spells beforehand is that you can set them off much faster, rather than needing to travel to a suitable part of the realm in combat time. The disadvantage is that you WILL cast the spell the next time you go to that part of the realm, so you can lock yourself out of places if you don't want to cast the spell.

Using too much mana (and you need to use a bit with nearly every spell or enchanted item you use, including healing potions) means that the next time you sleep, you'll be much closer to the dragon's dreams - and can come out of it with a better understanding of the world (at best) or some troublesome quirks (albeit temporary ones). Using nightmare magic means the side effects will be darker overall.

[olskool]

I haven’t played magic in GURPS (historical and sci-fi only) but I really like the “tech tree” concept of learning new spells. i.e. you have to master pre-requisite lower level spells in order to unlock higher level spells of that type. You can be specialized in one field of magic or have a broader base capable of dealing with a wider range of situations.

I like the idea of mana pool magic, although the only playable version I’ve come across is Warhammer FRP with it’s random winds of chaos system.

You should check out ROLEMASTER aka "rules master." In Rolemaster's Spell Law rule book, you get a category of spells and you can use any spell on the list up to your PC's Level. Each time you level up, you gain access to new spells.

[Eldan]

Unknown Armies has been mentioned, and that's probably the best I've seen. Though we had quite a handful of homebrewed magic paths anyway, that were a lot of fun. But the general principle is really solid. And hte system is also just really good.

More mainstream, I like the binder. Binding spirits, getting roleplay restrictions based on the spirit you bind, but also spirit-specific powers. Nice. I'd build an entire system around that idea, if I had the time.

Also, rituals from Dresden Files accelerated. The basic magic is quite... basic in that game, but rituals are a good implementation. Very simple. You describe the effect you want, the DM assigns a rank to it, that rank determines how many costs the ritual has. You roll an ability check, if the player wins, they get to decide what the costs are, if they lose the check, the DM decides, usually choosing some costs that are difficult. Costs are things like "rare component", or "specific time" or "specific place" or "you owe a favor to a powerful magical creature if you do this" or "your lifeforce is drained and you get a disadvantage for the rest of the session". It's very freeform, but highly enjoyable with the right people.

[ross]

Prowlers and Paragons.

[paladinn]

When I was a teen and just got into D&D, I used to wrack my brain trying to make sense of why, when a spell is cast, anything related to said spell was removed from ones memory. When I studied for a test and then took the test, did I instantly forget everything afterward? The 3e verbage of "preparing" a spell make somewhat more sense, but I still didn't like it.

I also tried a few other systems as a teen, especially Rolemaster and Palladium. But trying to adapt all that to work with a AD&D1e chassis was.. interesting (i.e. a total hot mess).

When 3e's sorcerer class came out, I breathed a sigh of relief. There was a casting class I could really appreciate! Likewise with the other "spontaneous" casters that followed. Then when 5e came out and spontaneous casting (i.e. "spell slots") was the default, I nearly jumped for joy! It makes soo much more sense than anything that had come before. I will adapt spell-slot-casting for every D&D/OSR/clone game I ever run again.

But if All casters now cast like sorcerers, why are there sorcerers? The metamagic features and the idea of innate connections to a power source are great thematically; and I think the variant "spell point" can provide enough flavor and mechanical difference to warrant a separated class, especially if all the "sorcery points" and "spell points" go into one pool. And with a little tweaking, that "power point pool" concept can drive other "powers" systems.

Back in the D20 days, one game that I Really wish had gotten more traction was Silver Age Sentinels D20. While Mutants & Masterminds started out as a D20-ish game, it went off the rails in later editions and Really left the ballpark with 3rd edition. SAS D20 was very much "superheroes for D&D"; and I'd Love to see a new treatment of that game, possibly using Amazing Adventures 5e as a model. And I think the "power point pool" concept would work well with it too..

Just my ramblings.. Carry on.. lol

[Mordar]

You should check out ROLEMASTER aka "rules master." In Rolemaster's Spell Law rule book, you get a category of spells and you can use any spell on the list up to your PC's Level. Each time you level up, you gain access to new spells.

I don't think that is quite right...in fact, I think it is much better than that.

You learn spell lists in level chunks (like 1-20, 21-30, etc, as I recall), and you can cast any spell in the list that you "know". It is just harder and more dangerous to "overcast" - casting above your character level - but you can still try, if you have the spell points ("mana") to make the attempt.

I think it nicely models that idea of putting your life on the line to channel1 more energy and reach beyond your safe limits.

I'm confident this wasn't house rule, but it may have been in one of the Companions, so maybe not everyone played that way.

[ASIDE]Still best fantasy RPG ever.

- M

1 - Unless you used Essence. Or Mentalism. Then you "essenced" or "mentaled" more energy :smallsmile:

[solidork]

Chuubo's Marvelous Wish-Granting Engine has some of the most buckwild powers/miracles and I absolutely love that about it, but it's a little more on the freeform end of things.

[Anonymouswizard]

Chuubo's Marvelous Wish-Granting Engine has some of the most buckwild powers/miracles and I absolutely love that about it, but it's a little more on the freeform end of things.

Oh, the various Jenna-verse games are great. I love that the Child of Ash's Kaiju Form cannot help you.

[solidork]

Oh, the various Jenna-verse games are great. I love that the Child of Ash's Kaiju Form cannot help you.

Not at first, at least! Chuubo's got it doubly bad, because he turns into a giant snake.

One thing I realized recently is that Creature of Light is kind of perfect for playing a cryptid that haunts a particular stretch of woods. You can immediately sense whenever someone is wandering around in your woods (A Sense for Sin), use your connection to materialize before them (Appear), be dramatically lit by the moonlight (Well-Lit) and let out a haunting cry that will ensure that their encounter with you will be one of the most significant events in their life.(Obsession)

[Duff]

Ars Magica is my favorite magic system. The structure of how it works makes it feel mystical. It's a process.

And the Ars Magica magic system is very much "This is your toolkit. You have access to many tools and if you're creative enough you're party probably has a tool to solve any given problem