Aotrs Commander
2022-03-08, 05:43 PM
Sanity check time.
So after the thread a little earlier, what I expected to be a minor adjustment turned out to be a Whole Thing once I had to stop and think about it, since there were a few ambiguitiies and missing bits. As such, I have attemped to address these issues. I would appreciate an eye to see if I've missed anything blindingly obvious. Additions/deviations from Pathfinder in red. (I did not replicate the two tables, because I felt tht was more effort than was necessary.)
One thing I couldn't seem to find on Nethys was any sort of section on aerial combat/movement outside the Fly skill rules (at least not with any permutation of the searches I tried), so I may be missing some information, if that exists in Pathfinder.
(Sidenote: Falling speed is assumed to be 500' in the first round and 1000' in subsequent rounds, which is a close enough approximation of acceleration to terminal velocity as probably matters.)
Issues addressed:
1) A re-classification of the Flight Special ability to only be needed as a special ability when absolutely necessary (to fall in line with no other movement modes needing a universal monster rules entry).
2) Gliding, adapted from the Glidespell principally. (With an eye to ensure no silly shananigans like "to get away from the flying enemy, I'm just going to go into a glide and functionally have a speed of 300' plus 60' down" that the spell basically gives you.) You may argue I've still given it too much distance, even with a cap based on speed, but gliding comes with an opportunity cost that means you ideally don't really WANT to do it in combat anyway.
3) Likewise, a creature that wants to just stop flying and fall should have that be an option in my opinion; but I've tried to make it so you can't decide to use that to get free downward movement by flying, stopping, using falling a free action and then resuming flying once you've dropped however far you want, since that seems like that could be way too abusable, but I'm open to arguements. You could certainly argue that could be a skill check of some sort (with a DC that was likely higher for shorter distances, because it's harder to judge smaller distance right when in free-fall by my logic).
4) Properly classifiying mechanical flying stuff (i.e. rotors and fixed-wing aircraft) and how they pertain to the rules, which, in Pathfinder, has become a non-zero chance of showing up in automatons and robots (or, y'know, any passing Transformer or something. I mean, I once DID have Megatron cameo in one of my games - not a Pathfinder one, true, but still, I wouldn't rule it out entirely...)
(Corolloary; my house rules still use the 3.5 definition that winged flying creatures can be tripped (stalled), but this is significantly more difficult (+5 CMD) than tripping a creature on the ground. Mentioned for completeness, more than anything.)
Fly
Fly (Dex; Armour Check Penalty)
You are skilled at flying, either through the use of wings or magic, and you can perform daring or complex manoeuvres while airborne. Note that this skill does not give you the ability to fly.
Fly Speed: A creature with a natural fly speed receives a bonus (or penalty) on Fly skill checks depending on its manoeuvrability. Creatures without a manoeuvrability rating are assumed to have average manoeuvrability and take no penalty on Fly checks.
Clumsy –8, Poor –4, Average +0, Good +4, Perfect +8
Size: A creature larger or smaller than Medium takes a size bonus or penalty on Fly checks depending on its size category:
Fine +8, Diminutive +6, Tiny +4, Small +2, Large –2, Huge –4, Gargantuan –6, Colossal –8
Note: Creatures whose ability to fly is based on mechanical flying surfaces (i.e. rotors) are treated as “winged” for the purposes of their interaction with the flight rules, as are creatures with fixed wings.
Special Requirement: You cannot take this skill without a natural means of flight or gliding. Creatures can also take ranks in Fly if they possess a reliable means of flying every day (either through a spell or other magical manner, such as a druid’s wild shape ability).
Creatures with a fly speed treat the Fly skill as a class skill.
Flying Manoeuvre DCs
(As standard Pathfinder)
You generally need only make a Fly check when you are attempting a complex manoeuvre. Without making a check, a flying creature can remain flying at the end of its turn so long as it moves a distance of at least half its speed. It can also turn up to 45 degrees by sacrificing 5 feet of movement, can rise at half speed at an angle of 45 degrees , and can descend at any angle at normal speed. Sacrificed movement does not count towards your minimum of half speed.
Note that these restrictions only apply to movement taken during your current turn. At the beginning of the next turn, you can move in a different direction than you did the previous turn without making a check. Taking any action that violates these rules requires a Fly check. The difficulty of these manoeuvres varies depending upon the manoeuvre you are attempting, as noted on the following chart.
Creatures that do not use wings to fly (i.e. have the Flight special ability or are Incorporeal) and also have Perfect Fly speed do not have to make checks to hover or move less than half speed as long as they are not suffering from any penalties to Fly checks (e.g. from weather).
A hovering creature is considered to be hovering until the start of its next turn.
It takes no action to cease or resume flying on a creature’s turn, it simply occurs as part of movement. A creature can volentarily choose to cease flying and fall outside its own turn as an Immediate action. A creature that volentarily ceases to fly and fall cannot resume flight until the start of its next turn.
Helpless, Paralysed or Unconscious Flyers
If a creature is rendered Helpess, Paralysed or Unconscious, it automatically falls unless it meets one of the following criterion:
• If it is a winged creature that is already gliding, it contunes to glide.
• If it is a creature with fixed wings (such as fixed-wing automaton or drone), it begins to glide.
• If it is a creature that flies without wings (i.e. has the Flight special ability or is incorporal), if it is hovering, it remains hovering; otherwise, it begins to glide.
In all cases, if the creature is required to make Fly check (including if it would require a Fly check to glide or hover), ti automatically fails the check and begins to fall.
A Helpless, Paralysed or Unconscious glider moves its maximum gliding distance in a straight line.
Dead or Petrified creatures immediately fall.
High Wind Speeds
(As standard Pathfinder)
Action: None. A Fly check doesn’t require an action; it is made as part of another action or as a reaction to a situation.
Retry? Varies. You can attempt a Fly check to perform the same manoeuvre on subsequent rounds (if hovering or trying to fly less than half speed). If you failed on turns or flying at an angle, if have movement left, you may continue to try to make fly checks to try again (provided you have not already failed a fly check that requires you to move at least half speed).
If you fail your fly check you must make the appropriate action indicated by the table. If you are using wings and you fail a Fly check by 5 or more, you instead plummet 500 feet, taking the appropriate falling damage if you hit the ground.
Specific Uses
Avoid Falling After Being Attacked
You are not considered flat-footed while flying. If you are flying using wings and you take damage while flying, you must make a DC 10 Fly check to avoid losing 10 feet of altitude. This descent does not provoke an attack of opportunity and does not count against a creature’s movement.
Avoid Falling After Collision
If you are using wings to fly and you collide with an object equal to your size or larger, you must immediately make a DC 25 Fly check to avoid plummeting 500 feet, taking the appropriate falling damage if they hit the ground.
Negate Falling Damage
If you are falling and have the ability to fly, you can make a DC 10 Fly check to negate the damage. You cannot make this check if you are falling due to a failed Fly check, have been stalled (see trip) or a collision. See falling damage if you fail this check.
Gliding
A creature that flies using wings can choose take Full-round action to glide instead of fly. It is considered gliding until the start of its next turn. Because a gliding creature by definition cannot make sharp movements, it is denied its Dexterity bonus to Armour Class while gliding.
A gliding creature descends 60 feet per round (instead of 500 feet for falling) and can move in any horizontal direction 25 feet for every 5 feet it falls (to a maximum of four times its base flight speed, three times if it is in heavy armour), but it must move each 25-foot increment in a straight line and cannot change direction by more than 45º between. A gliding creature that reaches the ground (or other surface) lands safely, taking no falling damage.
Gliding requries a DC 10 Fly check only if the creature has Poor or worse manoeuvrability; if it fails, it suffers the same penalties as for failing a Fly check to move less than half its Fly speed.
A creature that flies by rapid wing oscillation (such as insects or hummingbirds) cannot glide.
Flight Special Ability
The creature has the inherent ability to fly without the use of wings (or mechanical flying surfaces). Creatures whose ability to fly is based on mechanical flying surfaces (i.e. rotors) are treated as “winged” for the purposes of their interaction with the flight rules, as are creatures with fixed wings. This special ability pertains to the ability to fly without flying surfaces, such as via magical flight, thrusters or anti-gravity systems. (I.e. brute force of magic or technology over physics.)
If the ability is supernatural, it becomes ineffective in an antimagic field, and the creature loses its ability to fly for as long as the antimagic effect persists.
Note that Incorporeal creatures do not have this special ability, since their ability to fly it is an inherent property of being Incorporeal (and thus their ability to fly is treated as Ex, like that ability).
Special Quality (Ex or Su). Flight is Su unless specifically noted as Ex.
So after the thread a little earlier, what I expected to be a minor adjustment turned out to be a Whole Thing once I had to stop and think about it, since there were a few ambiguitiies and missing bits. As such, I have attemped to address these issues. I would appreciate an eye to see if I've missed anything blindingly obvious. Additions/deviations from Pathfinder in red. (I did not replicate the two tables, because I felt tht was more effort than was necessary.)
One thing I couldn't seem to find on Nethys was any sort of section on aerial combat/movement outside the Fly skill rules (at least not with any permutation of the searches I tried), so I may be missing some information, if that exists in Pathfinder.
(Sidenote: Falling speed is assumed to be 500' in the first round and 1000' in subsequent rounds, which is a close enough approximation of acceleration to terminal velocity as probably matters.)
Issues addressed:
1) A re-classification of the Flight Special ability to only be needed as a special ability when absolutely necessary (to fall in line with no other movement modes needing a universal monster rules entry).
2) Gliding, adapted from the Glidespell principally. (With an eye to ensure no silly shananigans like "to get away from the flying enemy, I'm just going to go into a glide and functionally have a speed of 300' plus 60' down" that the spell basically gives you.) You may argue I've still given it too much distance, even with a cap based on speed, but gliding comes with an opportunity cost that means you ideally don't really WANT to do it in combat anyway.
3) Likewise, a creature that wants to just stop flying and fall should have that be an option in my opinion; but I've tried to make it so you can't decide to use that to get free downward movement by flying, stopping, using falling a free action and then resuming flying once you've dropped however far you want, since that seems like that could be way too abusable, but I'm open to arguements. You could certainly argue that could be a skill check of some sort (with a DC that was likely higher for shorter distances, because it's harder to judge smaller distance right when in free-fall by my logic).
4) Properly classifiying mechanical flying stuff (i.e. rotors and fixed-wing aircraft) and how they pertain to the rules, which, in Pathfinder, has become a non-zero chance of showing up in automatons and robots (or, y'know, any passing Transformer or something. I mean, I once DID have Megatron cameo in one of my games - not a Pathfinder one, true, but still, I wouldn't rule it out entirely...)
(Corolloary; my house rules still use the 3.5 definition that winged flying creatures can be tripped (stalled), but this is significantly more difficult (+5 CMD) than tripping a creature on the ground. Mentioned for completeness, more than anything.)
Fly
Fly (Dex; Armour Check Penalty)
You are skilled at flying, either through the use of wings or magic, and you can perform daring or complex manoeuvres while airborne. Note that this skill does not give you the ability to fly.
Fly Speed: A creature with a natural fly speed receives a bonus (or penalty) on Fly skill checks depending on its manoeuvrability. Creatures without a manoeuvrability rating are assumed to have average manoeuvrability and take no penalty on Fly checks.
Clumsy –8, Poor –4, Average +0, Good +4, Perfect +8
Size: A creature larger or smaller than Medium takes a size bonus or penalty on Fly checks depending on its size category:
Fine +8, Diminutive +6, Tiny +4, Small +2, Large –2, Huge –4, Gargantuan –6, Colossal –8
Note: Creatures whose ability to fly is based on mechanical flying surfaces (i.e. rotors) are treated as “winged” for the purposes of their interaction with the flight rules, as are creatures with fixed wings.
Special Requirement: You cannot take this skill without a natural means of flight or gliding. Creatures can also take ranks in Fly if they possess a reliable means of flying every day (either through a spell or other magical manner, such as a druid’s wild shape ability).
Creatures with a fly speed treat the Fly skill as a class skill.
Flying Manoeuvre DCs
(As standard Pathfinder)
You generally need only make a Fly check when you are attempting a complex manoeuvre. Without making a check, a flying creature can remain flying at the end of its turn so long as it moves a distance of at least half its speed. It can also turn up to 45 degrees by sacrificing 5 feet of movement, can rise at half speed at an angle of 45 degrees , and can descend at any angle at normal speed. Sacrificed movement does not count towards your minimum of half speed.
Note that these restrictions only apply to movement taken during your current turn. At the beginning of the next turn, you can move in a different direction than you did the previous turn without making a check. Taking any action that violates these rules requires a Fly check. The difficulty of these manoeuvres varies depending upon the manoeuvre you are attempting, as noted on the following chart.
Creatures that do not use wings to fly (i.e. have the Flight special ability or are Incorporeal) and also have Perfect Fly speed do not have to make checks to hover or move less than half speed as long as they are not suffering from any penalties to Fly checks (e.g. from weather).
A hovering creature is considered to be hovering until the start of its next turn.
It takes no action to cease or resume flying on a creature’s turn, it simply occurs as part of movement. A creature can volentarily choose to cease flying and fall outside its own turn as an Immediate action. A creature that volentarily ceases to fly and fall cannot resume flight until the start of its next turn.
Helpless, Paralysed or Unconscious Flyers
If a creature is rendered Helpess, Paralysed or Unconscious, it automatically falls unless it meets one of the following criterion:
• If it is a winged creature that is already gliding, it contunes to glide.
• If it is a creature with fixed wings (such as fixed-wing automaton or drone), it begins to glide.
• If it is a creature that flies without wings (i.e. has the Flight special ability or is incorporal), if it is hovering, it remains hovering; otherwise, it begins to glide.
In all cases, if the creature is required to make Fly check (including if it would require a Fly check to glide or hover), ti automatically fails the check and begins to fall.
A Helpless, Paralysed or Unconscious glider moves its maximum gliding distance in a straight line.
Dead or Petrified creatures immediately fall.
High Wind Speeds
(As standard Pathfinder)
Action: None. A Fly check doesn’t require an action; it is made as part of another action or as a reaction to a situation.
Retry? Varies. You can attempt a Fly check to perform the same manoeuvre on subsequent rounds (if hovering or trying to fly less than half speed). If you failed on turns or flying at an angle, if have movement left, you may continue to try to make fly checks to try again (provided you have not already failed a fly check that requires you to move at least half speed).
If you fail your fly check you must make the appropriate action indicated by the table. If you are using wings and you fail a Fly check by 5 or more, you instead plummet 500 feet, taking the appropriate falling damage if you hit the ground.
Specific Uses
Avoid Falling After Being Attacked
You are not considered flat-footed while flying. If you are flying using wings and you take damage while flying, you must make a DC 10 Fly check to avoid losing 10 feet of altitude. This descent does not provoke an attack of opportunity and does not count against a creature’s movement.
Avoid Falling After Collision
If you are using wings to fly and you collide with an object equal to your size or larger, you must immediately make a DC 25 Fly check to avoid plummeting 500 feet, taking the appropriate falling damage if they hit the ground.
Negate Falling Damage
If you are falling and have the ability to fly, you can make a DC 10 Fly check to negate the damage. You cannot make this check if you are falling due to a failed Fly check, have been stalled (see trip) or a collision. See falling damage if you fail this check.
Gliding
A creature that flies using wings can choose take Full-round action to glide instead of fly. It is considered gliding until the start of its next turn. Because a gliding creature by definition cannot make sharp movements, it is denied its Dexterity bonus to Armour Class while gliding.
A gliding creature descends 60 feet per round (instead of 500 feet for falling) and can move in any horizontal direction 25 feet for every 5 feet it falls (to a maximum of four times its base flight speed, three times if it is in heavy armour), but it must move each 25-foot increment in a straight line and cannot change direction by more than 45º between. A gliding creature that reaches the ground (or other surface) lands safely, taking no falling damage.
Gliding requries a DC 10 Fly check only if the creature has Poor or worse manoeuvrability; if it fails, it suffers the same penalties as for failing a Fly check to move less than half its Fly speed.
A creature that flies by rapid wing oscillation (such as insects or hummingbirds) cannot glide.
Flight Special Ability
The creature has the inherent ability to fly without the use of wings (or mechanical flying surfaces). Creatures whose ability to fly is based on mechanical flying surfaces (i.e. rotors) are treated as “winged” for the purposes of their interaction with the flight rules, as are creatures with fixed wings. This special ability pertains to the ability to fly without flying surfaces, such as via magical flight, thrusters or anti-gravity systems. (I.e. brute force of magic or technology over physics.)
If the ability is supernatural, it becomes ineffective in an antimagic field, and the creature loses its ability to fly for as long as the antimagic effect persists.
Note that Incorporeal creatures do not have this special ability, since their ability to fly it is an inherent property of being Incorporeal (and thus their ability to fly is treated as Ex, like that ability).
Special Quality (Ex or Su). Flight is Su unless specifically noted as Ex.