Yer arms off!! Things that make you lose limbs

[Blackhawk748]

So another thread stuck this question in my mind: What effects in 3.5 or Pathfinder make you lose a limb? Cuz Regeneration exists, both the spell and the ability, and it specifically lets you regrow limbs. So what actually causes that to happen in DnD?

Like, just taking HP damage doesn't. Falling doesn't. Can't think of any spells that do outside of Clutch of Orcus removing your target's heart when they die while metal music blares in the background. But I can't think of any spells or abilities that remove or otherwise destroy limbs.

And then the follow up to that is, should there be? Like, should there be abilities that do this? What would they look like and how much would they screw over martials?

[Doctor Despair]

Snatch Trophy (Champions of Ruin) lets you rip body parts off of opponents

Detach (Savage Species) lets you rip body parts off yourself

Anything that acts as Vorpal can remove heads from anything subject to the effect

[Blackhawk748]

Snatch Trophy (Champions of Ruin) lets you rip body parts off of opponents

Detach (Savage Species) lets you rip body parts off yourself

Anything that acts as Vorpal can remove heads from anything subject to the effect

Interesting, I was unaware of this feat. That being said, wow that's a weird feat.

Don't expect anyone to be doing that without Regen or a way to attach the limb.

Ya, but that's also an insta kill. Most of the time anyway.

[loky1109]

Heads Up feat remove heads, too.

[daremetoidareyo]

Bovds grim revenge. Pair with fuse arms for effective disarming

[satorian]

It's something that could come up in (the gruesome sort of) course of the game, without there needing to be a monster or feat that does it in combat.

But the original reason for it is that in earlier editions, the Vorpal Sword had a baby cousin called the Sword of Sharpness, which cut off limbs the same way a Vorpal Sword cut off heads. Regeneration was the palliative balm for just such situations.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Hide life (Tome and Blood, Wiz/Sor 9) lets you use a removed body part as a phylactery. Nothing says you can't grow the part back after removal.

If you polymorph (etc) into a hydra, you can get sundered, and regen allows you to regrow the removed head(s). (Not sure what this does for you other than losing HP and restoring it via regen, though.)

Sundering a natural weapon may or may not lose the victim a hand, etc.

[Saintheart]

And then the follow up to that is, should there be? Like, should there be abilities that do this? What would they look like and how much would they screw over martials?

Used against martial PCs? Sure, lost limbs would be a distinct inconvenience to the two-handed power attacking fighter unless you fiat it that healing HP also heals lost limbs ... but you shouldn't be doing that to PCs anyway.

Used against monsters? Yes, there absolutely should be. You should be able, as a martial without much to do in a fight other than trip and subtract HP, to do something cinematic if the opportunity presents it and which can do something of mathematical consequence. You want creativity from players.

I like the homebrew at this page (https://theangrygm.com/dungeons-and-dragons-and-dismemberment/) for rules on dismembering monsters.

In essence: deem a big, loppable part of a monster has X number of hitpoints in its own pool. If a player wants to aim at that specific, targetable part, then he rolls 2d20 instead of one on his attack roll and takes the worst result (so, importing disadvantage back from 5e). If the player hits, he subtracts his damage from X number (and the same number from the monster's normal HP total, so you're still working towards the end of the fight either way.)

If the monster part's hitpoint pool goes to 0, something associated with that part is no longer available to the monster. You targeted the creature's obvious wings, it no longer has a fly speed. You targeted the creature's tail, it no longer has a tail sweep attack. Things like that. Sunder against a natural weapon could totally work too. All the natural weapon needs is its own hitpoint pool. I could totally get down with stopping a big ugly monster's bite attack by busting its teeth in with a goliath greathammer. Disadvantage on the roll leaves enough of a question mark on whether you'll hit to give a player a decision point about whether to go for the body feature or not.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Some homebrewed crit tables allow for dismemberment, especially on a double-confirmed critical or on a nat-20 confirmation.

Also, some weapons and other items (such as piratical hooks and peg legs) allow you to remove body parts to have them fitted. Also, certain intrinsic grafts, such as the illithid humanoid skin graft.

[Saintheart]

Some homebrewed crit tables allow for dismemberment, especially on a double-confirmed critical or on a nat-20 confirmation.

Their usefulness depend on whether you want players aiming at dismemberment as a strategy or you just want it to happen as a sort of marquee event, something to break up the tedium of critical hits. Maybe a bit of both: against PCs, it only happens in limited-circumstances criticals, while PCs can aim for it all day long.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Since the game world is supposed to work like the real world unless otherwise stated, any surgical procedure could remove a body part, even if it's not otherwise part of the rules. Also, via torture, or via tourniquet, or via having a limb trapped under something heavy, or something else that constricts blood flow and destroys a limb.


Their usefulness depend on whether you want players aiming at dismemberment as a strategy or you just want it to happen as a sort of marquee event, something to break up the tedium of critical hits. Maybe a bit of both: against PCs, it only happens in limited-circumstances criticals, while PCs can aim for it all day long.Not sure what that has to do with anything. And while PCs get to try for such things more than any one NPC, they also have the potential of it happening to them WAAAAAY more than any one NPC, since every attack roll against them has the potential of it happening, and PCs get a lot more incoming attack rolls than NPCs do.

[Gruftzwerg]

We had a Starmantle (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?642582-Starmantle) thread not long ago. And as it seems (imho), they work against natural attacks and unarmed strikes too.

So, never headbutt someone wearing a mantle. It could be a Starmantle !!! Otherwise you'll lose your head^^

[SangoProduction]

There are a good number of limb damaging sphere abilities in Spheres of Might. Possibly mostly in Brute, Berserker, and Wrestling, if I remember correctly. Only one legendary talent that actually removes it though.

It is also fairly common to find Called Shot rules, though they are all third party. Often, you take a penalty to hit, in order to attack a limb. Most of the time, if you deal more than some percent of max hp to the limb, you disable or destroy it in addition to your damage.

And then you've got the ridiculous "drawback" in Spheres of Origin, Assistive Device, which replaces your limb(s) with tough little devices that can be sundered (as the sunder combat maneuver) separately to you to inflict penalties. And the damage doesn't carry over to you, if they do get through it.
And you can just replace it in 1-8 hours of work. So perhaps the most forgiving of the limb loss rules.

[Saintheart]

Not sure what that has to do with anything. And while PCs get to try for such things more than any one NPC, they also have the potential of it happening to them WAAAAAY more than any one NPC, since every attack roll against them has the potential of it happening, and PCs get a lot more incoming attack rolls than NPCs do.

I agree. As for what its usefulness has to do with anything, the usefulness to the DM in running a decent game is the first and primary assessment tool in whether something should or shouldn't be included at a player's request.

Which in turn means the DM has to ask: what's the effect of this system - as said, does it result in another tactic for players to try for, or is it really just more for marquee value since critical effect tables are basically just scenery given the frequency of criticals is low bar the most overoptimised critfishing build.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

I agree. As for what its usefulness has to do with anything, the usefulness to the DM in running a decent game is the first and primary assessment tool in whether something should or shouldn't be included at a player's request.

Which in turn means the DM has to ask: what's the effect of this system - as said, does it result in another tactic for players to try for, or is it really just more for marquee value since critical effect tables are basically just scenery given the frequency of criticals is low bar the most overoptimised critfishing build.We're not talking about crit roll tables other than "what are things that can dismember your character in-game?"

For anything else, there's Mastercard take it to a new thread, por favor.

[Saintheart]

We're not talking about crit roll tables other than "what are things that can dismember your character in-game?"

For anything else, there's Mastercard take it to a new thread, por favor.

The OP asked in the OP:


And then the follow up to that is, should there be? Like, should there be abilities that do this? What would they look like and how much would they screw over martials?

Which is kind-of why the DM considering such a rule made up the lion's share of my reply. I'm interested mainly in the DM who has to run the system, Merci mais non merci.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

The OP asked in the OP:

<Snip>

Which is kind-of why the DM considering such a rule made up the lion's share of my reply. I'm interested mainly in the DM who has to run the system, Merci mais non merci.That's a bit of a wider net than I'm sure the OP meant to throw. Honestly, that particular issue can easily cause TPKs if a few die rolls go badly, so it's probably not a good idea.

[Pezzo]

You could petrify a creature and break off an arm

[noce]

Crawling Eyes and Disembodied Hand are warlock invocations where eyes or hand detach from yourself.
Wither limb spell withers a limb.
Lahm's Finger Darts corrupt spell detaches your fingers.
Spider Hand spell detaches your hand.

[St Fan]

There's also Grazzt's long grasp in the Book of Vile Darkness. It's basically a more powerful version of spectral hand not limited to 4th-level spells max, but which physically remove a hand rather than just a bit of your lifeforce.

The hand can be reattached at the end of the spell, but if it's destroyed in the meantime, it's not going to regrow by itself. Better having regenerate handy if you're planning to using this spell frequently.

Note that, on the other hand (pun), Grazzt's long grasp can also be used to avoid some situations that could require amputation, like to free a hand from a shackle before cleanly reattaching it, so no doubt it is a double-edged sword.

[ShurikVch]

Spells:
Heartclutch (Book of Vile Darkness) - heart
Seething Eyebane (Book of Vile Darkness) - eyes
Vile Rebellion (Dragon #300) - arms, legs, and torso (head is magically alive, but slowly going mad)

Psionic powers:
Decerebrate - part of brain

Monsters:
Cadaver Golem (Heroes of Horror) - Brain, Ears, Eyes, Hands, Heart, Legs, or/and Tongue
Murder of Crows (Tome of Magic) - Eyes
Ocularon (Fiend Folio) - Eyes
Rotripper (Dragon Annual #5) - Arms (creature is obsessed with arms, and it's favored pastime is to rip arms off and graft them onto itself)

Also, when a bodypart was replaced with a graft, some artifact (like "... of Vecna"), or something similar - in case of replacement is unneeded/unsuitable anymore, its removal leaves the missing part

[Blackhawk748]

Used against martial PCs? Sure, lost limbs would be a distinct inconvenience to the two-handed power attacking fighter unless you fiat it that healing HP also heals lost limbs ... but you shouldn't be doing that to PCs anyway.

Used against monsters? Yes, there absolutely should be. You should be able, as a martial without much to do in a fight other than trip and subtract HP, to do something cinematic if the opportunity presents it and which can do something of mathematical consequence. You want creativity from players.

I like the homebrew at this page (https://theangrygm.com/dungeons-and-dragons-and-dismemberment/) for rules on dismembering monsters.

In essence: deem a big, loppable part of a monster has X number of hitpoints in its own pool. If a player wants to aim at that specific, targetable part, then he rolls 2d20 instead of one on his attack roll and takes the worst result (so, importing disadvantage back from 5e). If the player hits, he subtracts his damage from X number (and the same number from the monster's normal HP total, so you're still working towards the end of the fight either way.)

If the monster part's hitpoint pool goes to 0, something associated with that part is no longer available to the monster. You targeted the creature's obvious wings, it no longer has a fly speed. You targeted the creature's tail, it no longer has a tail sweep attack. Things like that. Sunder against a natural weapon could totally work too. All the natural weapon needs is its own hitpoint pool. I could totally get down with stopping a big ugly monster's bite attack by busting its teeth in with a goliath greathammer. Disadvantage on the roll leaves enough of a question mark on whether you'll hit to give a player a decision point about whether to go for the body feature or not.

Ya, the lack of called Shots, and Sundering not working on natural weapons (IIRC) is a big messed opportunity in the game, as it would A) make Sunder actually decent and B) open up a hell of a debuff for Martials.

[Zombulian]

An Ahuitzotl that makes a critical hit against an opponent permanently blinds them. While not explicit in the ability, it’s in reference to the real life mythology that the creature eats eyes.

[noce]

Teeth of Dalver Nar require you to remove one of your teeth.
Eyes of Gruumsh pluck one of their eyes out.
Pale Master replaces one of your arms.
Cranial Deluge power can pop your head.
Dissipating Touch is a Psychoportation power that dissipates a portion of the creature touched.
Also, Mind Flayers.