Hello all. Can you help me make a party full of healers?

[Itsfrank]

Hello all! Me and a group of friends just started really playing dnd a few months ago getting used to the game and looking for some help on the new campaign one of the players is trying to homebrew.
So we'll all be starting new characters and the dm said told us that the world is going to be kind of filled with plague and famine and it will be our jobs to hunt down the source and turn everything around. We decided we all want to be healers but is there a way to do that with everybody being a different class? Like if there's a couple the same that's fine. I've been doing some research and I know we could have a Cleric and a Paladin and maybe a Druid would work.
What do you think?

[Itsfrank]

Oh yeah there's 5 of us playing not counting the dm and this is the first time we get to start at level 3.

[Tawmis]

Cleric, Paladin, Druid, Ranger (later they get the potential to heal), Bards (get the potential to heal).

[Dr.Samurai]

What sources are allowed?

1. Cleric
2. Paladin
3. Druid
4. Bard
5. Mercy Monk
6. Celestial Warlock
7. Any caster with Mark of Healing Halfling as race
8. Rogue with Healer feat

That's what I can think of off the top of my head.

[Sigreid]

Paladin: Any
Aritificer: Any
Cleric: Any
Druid: Any
Warlock: Celestial
Rogue: Healer feat, herbalism kit, etc.
Fighter: Much like Rogue.
Wizard, sorcerer: Much like Rogue

So, yeah. Easily done.

[Itsfrank]

Dm said we can use pretty much whatever online as long as its official.

[Eldariel]

Twilight Cleric
Peace Cleric
Watchers Pally 6/Divine Soul X
Shepherd Druid
Lore Bard


Every single character in the party is a highly potent healer while also having disgusting synergy with one another.

1. Twilight Cleric's Twilight Shroud regenerates Temp HP every round in 2 fights per SR while Peace Cleric's Bond on level 6 lets everyone share damage to the point that nobody is taking full damage meaning the temp HP will block everything,
2. Shepherd's Unicorn Totem will make it a breeze to heal anything that gets through,
3. Pally has a huge nuke heal + save boost (also Peace Cleric and Bless as additional save boosts),
4. Lore Bard can make any particularly dangerous hits miss, allies succeed saves with Inspiration, and Counterspell and such.


Could go straight Watchers too but I think you want a second Counterspeller eventually even though the Divine Soul is awfully late to the party. Jorasco Halfling Wizard would be a great addition but the given party is straight-up absurd too far as survivability goes. Twilight Cleric + Peace Cleric in particular is such a stupid good combo it's almost impossible to go wrong with it. Hell, you could use Dragonmarked Races to get the Clerics Counterspell too to address that slight shortcoming. And perhaps dip Life Cleric on the Shepherd Druid for super-Goodberries on top of everything else. That's almost certainly an overkill but something you can do.

[Pildion]

Cleric, Paladin, Druid then for the last 2 you could go Bard \ Ranger \ Celestial Lock \ Divine Soul Sorc

Cleric go for Life or Nature maybe per theme. Paladin could be any, but Devo might fit the theme best. Your Druid could go Stars for heal or Spores for expert in plague and famine. The Ranger could go any, maybe Swarm Keeper for more expertise in plague and famine again. For Bard I would go Lore, or Celestial Lock or Divine Soul Sorc to bring it up to 5 characters

[Itsfrank]

That does sound really strong. I was gonna ask about subclasses since apparently there's a ton of healers but are they all good?

[LudicSavant]

What sources are allowed?

1. Cleric
2. Paladin
3. Druid
4. Bard
5. Mercy Monk
6. Celestial Warlock
7. Any caster with Mark of Healing Halfling as race
8. Rogue with Healer feat

That's what I can think of off the top of my head.


Paladin: Any
Aritificer: Any
Cleric: Any
Druid: Any
Warlock: Celestial
Rogue: Healer feat, herbalism kit, etc.
Fighter: Much like Rogue.
Wizard, sorcerer: Much like Rogue

So, yeah. Easily done.

Basically what I would have said.

Paladin: Any
Cleric: Any
Druid: Any
Warlock: Celestial or Jorasco
Wizard: Jorasco
Sorcerer: Divine Soul or Jorasco
Monk: Mercy
Rogue: Thief with the Healer feat

Of these, Rogue is probably the most limited, as they have no way to deal with status effects unless they find magic items to UMD or something. Also it's important to note that it's the Thief subclass specifically that makes the Healer feat stand out for them.

[nickl_2000]

5 PCs huh?


Way of Mercy Monk, Striker
Any Strength based Paladin - Tank and backup face
Celestial Warlock/ Divine Soul Sorcerer - Blaster
Arcana Cleric - Backup Tank and Has Wizard Spells
Lore Bard - Face, Skillmonkey, and controller


I think that is the way I would play it if given full choices

[Sigreid]

5 PCs huh?


Way of Mercy Monk, Striker
Any Strength based Paladin - Tank and backup tank
Celestial Warlock/ Divine Soul Sorcerer - Blaster
Arcana Cleric - Backup Tank and Has Wizard Spells
Lore Bard - Face, Skillmonkey, and controller


I think that is the way I would play it if given full choices

I'd personally swap the monk with a battlesmith artificer for a tank pet and a good bit more access to arcane options and versitility.

[nickl_2000]

I'd personally swap the monk with a battlesmith artificer for a tank pet and a good bit more access to arcane options and versitility.

That's a fair adjustment for overall awesomeness. I have a special place for Monks, so I like to include them whenever possible.:smallsmile:

[Itsfrank]

That's really cool I didn't know Monks had a healer subclass. Definitely gonna look into all this

[Frogreaver]

A Battlemaster fighter with the healer feat and rally maneuver works well too.

[Sigreid]

That's a fair adjustment for overall awesomeness. I have a special place for Monks, so I like to include them whenever possible.:smallsmile:

I'm a little salty as my most recent monk character suffered from phenomenally bad luck and got curb stomped on the regular. rofl

[Willowhelm]

Don’t forget anyone can do ordinary medical things without even proficiency.

In some extremely broken RAW reading you could maybe even sit at home and stabilise every creature out in the world… (no range or sight requirement)

https://youtube.com/shorts/FU9Pm7zig_A

[Itsfrank]

There's a lot more than I realized. Might need some help narrowing that down lol.
Oh figured out how to edit. That way of the mercy monk with the mask looks like it really fits the plague concept.

[No brains]

If your DM rewards out of the box thinking (or outlandish memes YMMV) and you want to fight plague and famine head-on, have someone play a Cleric or Druid with the spell Purify Food and Drink. Next, make sure they're a cannibal. Volo's says that Lizardfolk, Kobolds, and Yuan-ti make good candidates. This also works with Bards willing to spend a magical secret or anyone with the Ritual Caster Feat.

Now you can ritual-spam Purify Food and Drink, removing all poison and disease from 5-foot cubes of food at a time, which can include people. You are now the most benevolent prayerful purple people-eater.

You and your DM can have fun working out how this affects RP. Do you merely want people to admit they are an edible part of nature like everything else? Are you attempting to spread your faith? Do commoners think you're responsible for the plague as part of a magical pyramid scheme? How often do you actually eat people? Does it actually work?

Or maybe you can just cast Purify Food and Drink on crops and water and livestock like a boring cleric. It's still potentially useful.

[Kane0]

Life Cleric, Celestial Warlock, Divine Soul Sorcerer, Mercy Monk, any Paladin, Thief Rogue with the Healer feat, Alchemist Artificer, any Wizard with that MtG background that gives healing spells, Banneret Fighter by technicality, any Ranger or Bard at a stretch...

Edit: Dreams Druid! Knew I forgot one.

[Nidgit]

I'd also point out that Paladins are immune to disease starting at Level 3, and that they can use Lay On Hands to cure diseases and poisons too.

One thing you might want to consider is if you want healing-capable or healing-focused characters. For instance, Rangers and Bards both have access to healing spells but neither really has an subclass focused on healing. Both function well as backup healers but neither really wants to focus on it.

If you wanted to make a specifically healing-focused party, it might look something like:
Life Cleric
Dreams Druid
Mercy Monk
Any Paladin
Divine Soul Sorcerer

Though Celestial Warlock and Alchemist Artificer would also fit the bill.

But that's probably overkill. You've got a lot of options, what are you looking for more specifically?

[kazaryu]

Hello all! Me and a group of friends just started really playing dnd a few months ago getting used to the game and looking for some help on the new campaign one of the players is trying to homebrew.
So we'll all be starting new characters and the dm said told us that the world is going to be kind of filled with plague and famine and it will be our jobs to hunt down the source and turn everything around. We decided we all want to be healers but is there a way to do that with everybody being a different class? Like if there's a couple the same that's fine. I've been doing some research and I know we could have a Cleric and a Paladin and maybe a Druid would work.
What do you think?

cleric, paladin, druid, DS sorcerer, and bards can all make ok healers. and, notably, each of them brings some unique strengths to the table. J

clerics: almost exclusive burst heals. unless your DM is using alternative spell lists (specifically the one that adds aura of vitality to the cleric spell list, because ya know, **** paladins i guess) the earliest heal over time they get is level 13 with regeneration. However, they also get the earliest access to resurrection magic with revivify, and have exclusive access to mass healing word, and eventually mass heal.

Druids: specifically a shepard druid is probably better than a straight cleric (literally any healer benefits massively taking a 1 level dip in life cleric) particularly at high levels. their ability to heal the entire party for up to 20 hp every time they cast a healing spell is pretty strong. besides that goodberry and healing spirit are pretty useful out of combat heals (goodberry in particular if you do the aformentioned dip and your DM rules that disciple of life applies to the goodberries

Paladins: honestly their biggest strength in terms of actual healing is that they have the strongest single target burst heal in the game. 5xpaladin level in a single action is really strong. sure *technically* life clerics channel divinity is the same size, and can be used on a single target, but its capped at half the targets max HP. meaning a lot of the time you're not dumping the whole thing into a single person. in this setting particularly, their Lay on hands ability to cure a disease is also notable. with a second level spell slot a cleric can heal 2d8+5 hp (13 average) so using LoH instead of casting lesser restoration can be a very positive tradeoff. Also, paladins have the most longevity in terms of yoyo healing, if that ever comes up.


DS sorcerers: they can twin healing spells, or quicken a cure wounds (for that bit of extra healing). might let them heal in a way that it can't get countered (should that be a problem) and things like extended spell or...the range increasing one, could also come into play. for example, if you can extend an aura of vitality you double its out of combat healing potential.

Bards: Bards unique thing is that they're able to pilfer spells. so like, you can get aura of vitality but also grab mass haling word. there's also indirect ways they can use the spell secrets. for example aura of vitality/find steed may let you get 2 heals per round with the aura of vitality (if your DM runs the steed as having its own full initiative). or find familiar so you can cure wounds from a range. things like that.


obviously the warlock healing is pretty neat, and...im not 100% sure if the monk subclass that got healing was ever made official? but either way i know less about those

[Itsfrank]

Oh man that's really cool. Definitely gonna need at least one Paladin for all the disease stuff.
I think the goal is having as much resources possible to help as many people we can and also keep our own heads above water. We feel like it will probably be kinda survival heavy.
Backgrounds and races are pretty much open except anything that can fly.

[Frogreaver]

For keeping NPCs alive, temp hp could be more efficient than actual healing hp since many NPCs will have low max hp values and dropping to 0 may mean real death instead of death saves for them. This Doesn’t cure disease but the disease in question might not be curable with class features either.

Aid is a great spell for this too. Not healing, but can give additional hp and max hp. Fairly efficient spell for it as well.

[kazaryu]

Oh man that's really cool. Definitely gonna need at least one Paladin for all the disease stuff.
I think the goal is having as much resources possible to help as many people we can and also keep our own heads above water. We feel like it will probably be kinda survival heavy.
Backgrounds and races are pretty much open except anything that can fly.

well, depending on party size i'd pick them up in the order of: (if i note a specific subclass, its because im focusing on specializing in healing/support. most of the classes are good enough on their own, the subclass doesn't have to be picked in order for them to adequately fill the role of healer. )

life/nature cleric-nature clerics can get expertise in either survival or nature, depending on what skills you might think are important. the abiltiy to charm plants/animals (SR c/d) and at level 6 get an at-will absorb elements that they can use on their allies for damage reduction. Life cleric, of course, is just straight up better healz. either would work for the theme i think.
peace domain with its free bless that stacks with bless and later protective bond allowing the party to, essentially, choose how the damage is distributed is obviously really really good for a healer.

and twlight domains AoE herosim on crack (with a SR c/d) is also amazing pseudo healing.

in terms of pure keeping people alive, there's almost no reason to not go twilight domain. its so obviously busted i hate to mention it)

Paladin: any subclass should be fine. Devotion gets several good support spells 'free' leaving their fairly limited preparation slots more open to customization. also i, in particular, like their auras. They're also able to AoE turn fiends as though they're undead...which is solid. But really the paladin is there because you want a martial and Lay on Hands is amazing for healing, so the subclass is open for whatever you wanna focus on

Lore bard: bard is commonly picked as a '5th' party member, but thats because typically one of the 'standard' party members is a rogue. having a bard gives you some of that rogue-ish skill that can come in ever so handy. lore bard, specifically, because the thing that makes bards unique in terms of healing is that their magical secrets. Lore bard gets those early, otherwise you're waiting for lvl 10 in order to be anything more than just a cut-rate cleric...at least as far as healing goes.

DS sorcerer: this one might be interchangeable with the druid, depending on what the bard wants to do. its entirely feasible that the bard just picks up a couple of healing/restoration spells and from there focuses on playing a role similar to the wizard. in which case you don't necessarily need the sorcerer as much. But if the bard focuses more on the support/healing aspect then you should get a sorcerer in there to bring some of those arcane spells you're otherwise missing out on.

Dream druid: earlier i noted the shepard druid as being a particularly strong healer, and its true. the unicorn spirit can absolutely trounce the balm of the summer court in terms of healing. However, the rest of the shepards subclass revolves around summoning spells...and If you (or your table/DM) don't like using summon spells, then most of the subclass may as well not exist, whereas dream Druid actually get useful features.

again: the specific subclass suggestions are just there to point you in the direction of which ones are going to be best for *healing* but in all cases (except the sorcerer) the base classes themselves have plenty of healing on their own, especially with a party full of them.


you might also look into the healer feat. 1d6+level HP per healers feat, per short rest. Thats pretty good, also even if you've already been healed, they can still use a healer's kit to bring someone up to 1hp when they stabilize them. It also gives you a non-magical alternative to healing, should that ever become a worry.

[Azara5]

obviously the warlock healing is pretty neat, and...im not 100% sure if the monk subclass that got healing was ever made official? but either way i know less about those

The healing monk subclass is called the Way of Mercy, and was released in Tasha’s back in November.

[kazaryu]

The healing monk subclass is called the Way of Mercy, and was released in Tasha’s back in November.

fair enough then.

[animorte]

the disease in question might not be curable with class features either.

I immediately thought of that as well.

My recommendations are as follows:
- Celestial Warlock
- Twilight Cleric
- Dreams Druid
- Mercy Monk
- Any Paladin
This maintains a solid amount of versatility throughout the party for any type of encounter, combat or otherwise. Also depends on your background choices/feats/etc.

OR keep it simple
- Any Paladin
- Dreams Druid
- Life Cleric
- Shepherd Druid
- Twilight Cleric
Just all the healing powerhouses keeping each other immortal.

[Eldariel]

I'll repeat Peace + Twilight Cleric. Each is insane on their own but rarely do two (sub)classes synergise so well: together the survivability they provide is ridiculous.

[Itsfrank]

We have a unicorn lover in the group so we'll probably have one of the shepherd druids. Everybody might start out 1 level of life cleric just for extra heal bonus except if somebody is already gonna be a different kind of cleric.

[Dork_Forge]

I'd like to throw out the following as a potential combo:

-Alchemist Artificer

-Celestial Warlock (Aasimar)

-Soulknife Rogue (V. Human with Healer feat)

-Life Cleric

-Divine Soul Sorcerer (V. Human with Metamagic Adept)

If going with a Druid I'd recommend Stars over Shepherd.

[TyGuy]

We have a unicorn lover in the group so we'll probably have one of the shepherd druids. Everybody might start out 1 level of life cleric just for extra heal bonus except if somebody is already gonna be a different kind of cleric.

Your table sounds newer with lesser experienced players and DM. If so, I highly advise against shepherd for now. Minion play is a slow-down even for intermediate players. And it's not like "Oh, so combat takes a little longer, no biggie". It's a lot more juggling of things to track which strains your mental bandwidth of everything else you want to track like concentration and status effects.

[nickl_2000]

We have a unicorn lover in the group so we'll probably have one of the shepherd druids. Everybody might start out 1 level of life cleric just for extra heal bonus except if somebody is already gonna be a different kind of cleric.

One of my kids is a Unicorn lover. That kid is playing a Divine Soul Sorcerer who got their magic as a gift from a unicorn. A Unicorn could also be a Celestial Warlock patron easily.


Your table sounds newer with lesser experienced players and DM. If so, I highly advise against shepherd for now. Minion play is a slow-down even for intermediate players. And it's not like "Oh, so combat takes a little longer, no biggie". It's a lot more juggling of things to track which strains your mental bandwidth of everything else you want to track like concentration and status effects.

I agree with this statement. Avoid minionmancy unless it is the Tasha's Summon spells that bring in a single entity.

[Itsfrank]

I really appreciate that advice because we're not trying to make it any more complex than it needs to be.

[Sigreid]

I really appreciate that advice because we're not trying to make it any more complex than it needs to be.

I'd suggest an easy way to simplify things in combat is to do side initiative. Basically, just have the highest initiative modifier for each side make the roll and do all the players and all the enemy as groups each round. It really does make it easier to keep track of what is going on as the DM can do all the monster actions without interruption and can work their way consistently one way or the other around the table. Added benefit is everyone knows when their turn is and can more easily be ready to go when their turn comes up.

[CTurbo]

Life Cleric
Celestial Warlock
Divine Soul Sorcerer
Devotion Paladin
Mercy Monk

The Cleric and Paladin are your heavy armor front line characters. The Warlock and Sorcerer are your backline blasters, and the Monk is the skirmisher.

The Cleric and/or Monk can be a Dwarf and take Dwarven Fortitude feat that allows you to heal yourself when you take the Dodge action. The Warlock or Sorcerer can take Inspiring Leader for a temp HP buffer.

Would be a solid party.

[Itsfrank]

Lol how many ways can you include a unicorn? We got around the table for combat pretty simple. The chalice from stars druid looks kinda similar to the unicorn.

[Sigreid]

Lol how many ways can you include a unicorn? We got around the table for combat pretty simple. The chalice from stars druid looks kinda similar to the unicorn.

You sure after the results of the "how many ways to include a healer" discussion you want to start "How many ways to include a unicorn" discussion. :smalltongue:

[Nidgit]

It's not at all related to healing but I just got an idea for a Zealot Barbarian who's just a rabid unicorn-obsessed horse girl.

[nickl_2000]

It's not at all related to healing but I just got an idea for a Zealot Barbarian who's just a rabid unicorn-obsessed horse girl.

You don't insult her ponies!

[Itsfrank]

You sure after the results of the "how many ways to include a healer" discussion you want to start "How many ways to include a unicorn" discussion. :smalltongue:

That's pretty funny. What about that hearth of moonlight and shadow dreams druid thing? It looks really useful

[kazaryu]

That's pretty funny. What about that hearth of moonlight and shadow dreams druid thing? It looks really useful

yeah its sort of like a weaker private sanctum. and balm of the summer court is why people recommend dreams druid if you have a druid.

[stoutstien]

yeah its sort of like a weaker private sanctum. and balm of the summer court is why people recommend dreams druid if you have a druid.

It's potential depends on how the DM rules the whole "start of rest" issue.

[Itsfrank]

It's potential depends on how the DM rules the whole "start of rest" issue.
I mean we just talk about it and decide to rest. I'm not sure what you mean except for possible random encounters

[Itsfrank]

We just about have all the characters figured out. A paladin of with oath of the crown. A cleric with twilight domain. A druid with circle of dreams. A cleric with peace domain. A monk with the way of mercy. Now we need to get the right races.

[Itsfrank]

We were thinking about the warlock or sorcerer but this way everybody can take a hit and is in close enough proximity to help each other better.

[stoutstien]

I mean we just talk about it and decide to rest. I'm not sure what you mean except for possible random encounters

Because you can't decide when to start a rest RaW. Anytime that you meet the criteria for a rest it starts itself because it's existence is determined at completion rather than an active decision. Its like you're in the middle of a fight with a dragon you can't decide to start a rest because being in combat prevents it but on the other hand if you are just standing around you've already started a rest regardless if you plan to complete it.

[Itsfrank]

Because you can't decide when to start a rest RaW. Anytime that you meet the criteria for a rest it starts itself because it's existence is determined at completion rather than an active decision. Its like you're in the middle of a fight with a dragon you can't decide to start a rest because being in combat prevents it but on the other hand if you are just standing around you've already started a rest regardless if you plan to complete it.
Oh I know that combat stuff prevents it but I didn't know it just started by itself. That's pretty neat we'll have to remember that.

[Sorinth]

One thing I would note is that having a couple characters with Warding Bond can be very useful for this type of party. The more you spread the damage about the more effective things like recurring temp HPs become, as well as damage mitigation stuff like Heavy Armor Mastery, Interception Fighting Style, etc...

[Itsfrank]

Warding bond looks good. We're also going to have somebody with inspiring leader probably paladin because of charisma.

[Urbanmech]

With a Twilight and a Peace cleric you shouldn’t need Inspiring Leader the Twilight clerics channel divinity is just better, unless you really are dead set on entering every encounter with temporary hp. Two clerics should give you enough Warding Bond coverage to make damaging anyone a real pain.

[Dork_Forge]

With a Twilight and a Peace cleric you shouldn’t need Inspiring Leader the Twilight clerics channel divinity is just better, unless you really are dead set on entering every encounter with temporary hp. Two clerics should give you enough Warding Bond coverage to make damaging anyone a real pain.

Traps are a thing, and Warding Bond will make it a pain for those Clerics to maintain concentration.

[Kane0]

We just about have all the characters figured out. A paladin of with oath of the crown. A cleric with twilight domain. A druid with circle of dreams. A cleric with peace domain. A monk with the way of mercy. Now we need to get the right races.

All Aasimar of course!

Edit: maybe a Multiverse Hobgoblin too as the odd man out

[Nidgit]

We just about have all the characters figured out. A paladin of with oath of the crown. A cleric with twilight domain. A druid with circle of dreams. A cleric with peace domain. A monk with the way of mercy. Now we need to get the right races.
Tabaxi is the top choice but any race with a speed boost compliments Peace Cleric nicely. More bang for your Channel Divinity buck.

Paladins tend to appreciate anything with a mobility boost or a ranged cantrips. Aarakocra and Winged Tieflings fit the former, while Fire Genasi, Levistus Tiefling, or potentially High Elf could do the latter. Paladins also appreciate particularly sturdy races like Goliaths or Half-Orcs so you've got a lot of options.

Monks like anything with an unarmed attack at early levels but that's irrelevant by level 5.

Aasimar could work for just about anything but I'd probably veer towards the Twilight Cleric or Druid since the others have other close-range healing methods.

[RogueJK]

We were thinking about the warlock or sorcerer but this way everybody can take a hit and is in close enough proximity to help each other better.

A Tome Pact Celestial Warlock with the Moderately Armored feat can certainly take a hit (and dish out the hits), while also staying in close proximity to everyone else and being a solid healer to boot. See the "Celestial Warlock Generalist" here: https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?583957-An-Eclectic-Collection-of-Fun-and-Effective-Builds/

The build is called "Generalist" because it can do just about anything fairly well: Melee damage output, tanking/frontlining, ranged damage output, blasting, healing, support, control, utility, scouting, party Face, etc. It's one of my favorite 5E builds ever, and I've had a ton of fun playing one in a couple different campaigns.


Also, a good way to incorporate some Sorcerer capabilities into your party would be for your party's Crown Paladin to switch to taking Divine Soul Sorcerer levels after reaching Paladin 6 or 7. This style of "Sorcadin" multiclass gets you nearly all of the best Paladin abilities, while also allowing you to access Sorcerer and Cleric spells, plus more rapidly acquire higher level spell slots to use with their Paladin Divine Smite ability. A Paladin 6 or 7/Sorcerer X build is extremely effective.

[stoutstien]

A Tome Pact Celestial Warlock with the Moderately Armored feat can certainly take a hit (and dish out the hits), while also staying in close proximity to everyone else and being a solid healer to boot. See the "Celestial Warlock Generalist" here: https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?583957-An-Eclectic-Collection-of-Fun-and-Effective-Builds/

The build is called "Generalist" because it can do just about anything fairly well: Melee damage output, tanking/frontlining, ranged damage output, blasting, healing, support, control, utility, scouting, party Face, etc. It's one of my favorite 5E builds ever, and I've had a ton of fun playing one in a couple different campaigns.


Also, a good way to incorporate some Sorcerer capabilities into your party would be for your party's Crown Paladin to switch to taking Divine Soul Sorcerer levels after reaching Paladin 6 or 7. This style of "Sorcadin" multiclass gets you nearly all of the best Paladin abilities, while also allowing you to access Sorcerer and Cleric spells, plus more rapidly acquire higher level spell slots to use with their Paladin Divine Smite ability. A Paladin 6 or 7/Sorcerer X build is extremely effective.

I love the tome celestial but for massive damage mitigation the pact of chain celestial is in a league if its own thanks to maximizing all healing dice.

[RogueJK]

but for massive damage mitigation the pact of chain celestial is in a league if its own thanks to maximizing all healing dice.

Maximizing all healing dice on themselves.

Gift of the Ever-Living Ones is a cool ability, but it doesn't apply to healing others.

Still a very solid Celestial Warlock build, but compared to the Tomelock Generalist, it requires sacrificing your melee/tanking capability and delaying Warlock levels a bit in order to be a more effective healer (especially on yourself). A little more of a specialist and less of a generalist.


For those wondering, here's what he's referring to: https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=25029862&postcount=1095

[stoutstien]

Maximizing all healing dice on themselves.

Gift of the Ever-Living Ones is a cool ability, but it doesn't apply to healing others.

Still a very solid Celestial Warlock build, but compared to the Tomelock Generalist, it requires sacrificing your melee/tanking capability and delaying Warlock levels a bit in order to be a more effective healer (especially on yourself). A little more of a specialist and less of a generalist.


For those wondering, here's what he's referring to: https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=25029862&postcount=1095

True but if everyone is a celestial chain lock...

[Itsfrank]

I'll probably be playing the paladin so going with sorcerer later seems pretty cool. The celestial warlock looks good thanks! but should I replace the monk or one of the clerics? Or other idk

[RogueJK]

The celestial warlock looks good thanks! but should I replace the monk or one of the clerics? Or other idk

I'd sub in a Celestial Tomelock Generalist in place of the party's Peace Cleric. You could do Peace Cleric 1/Celestial Tomelock X, to retain access to Peace Cleric's Emboldening Bond and remove the need for the Celestial Warlock to take the Moderately Armored feat for medium armor and shield proficiency. This would also give them some 1st level Cleric spell slots, which are handy to use with spells like Bless, Hex, and Hellish Rebuke.

Doing that with a Celestial Generalist is a good option for this party, since it adds in a dedicated Party Face character, beefs up the party's ranged damage output with Eldritch Blast, gives them access to all ritual spells through Book of Ancient Secrets, and eventually adds some AoE blasting capabilities with spells like Shatter, Wall of Fire, and Synaptic Static. All in place of a semi-redundant 2nd Cleric character.

With Point Buy stat generation and starting at Level 3, this character could look something like this:
Variant Human
Peace Cleric 1/Celestial Warlock 2
STR 9
DEX 13+1
CON 14
INT 8
WIS 13
CHA 15+1
Take the Warcaster feat as your Level 1 racial feat.
Human Skill: Perception
Cleric Skills: Persuasion, Insight
Background Skills: Deception and one other of your choice (probably Medicine, Acrobatics, or Intimidation)
Cleric Cantrips: Guidance, Thaumaturgy
Warlock Cantrips: Eldritch Blast, Booming Blade
Celestial Cantrips: Sacred Flame, Light
Cleric 1st level spells prepared: Bless, Detect Magic (with Detect Magic usually cast as a Ritual)
Peace Domain 1st level spells: Heroism, Sanctuary (always prepared, although neither will ever see much use)
Warlock 1st level spells known: Armor of Agathys, Hellish Rebuke, Cure Wounds
Warlock invocations: Devil's Sight, Agonizing Blast

Wear medium armor and use a shield, and stick to Eldritch Blast as their primary combat option for now. From there, go Pact of the Tome next level at Warlock 3, picking up Shillelagh, Message, and a utility cantrip like Shape Water/Mold Earth as your three free Tome cantrips. You can now wade into melee with CHA-based Shillelagh+Booming Blade, along with Booming Blade Opportunity Attacks using Warcaster. Get the Green Flame Blade cantrip next at Warlock 4. You'll want to grab the Repelling Blast and Book of Ancient Secrets Invocations at Warlock levels 5 and 7, for forced movement as well as access to all the handy Wizard rituals that the party would otherwise lack, including Find Familiar. (And once you have access to the Detect Magic ritual that way, you can prepare something like Protection from Good/Evil or Shield of Faith in place of Detect Magic as your other Cleric spell prepared.)

For ASIs, do +2 CHA at Warlock 4, +2 CHA at Warlock 8, and then either +2 CON or +1 STR/+1 WIS at Warlock 12

[Itsfrank]

That sounds awesome and thank you for all the detail. Definitely gonna use that. Would it be too much to ask what the paladin+sorcerer would look like progression?

[RogueJK]

https://media1.giphy.com/media/3oAt20WaK4ZpWdD63m/giphy.gif

With a Paladin/Sorcerer multiclass, I like to take a 1 level Sorcerer dip early, either at the 1st level if I don't need Heavy Armor or after Paladin 2 otherwise. This 1 level of Sorcerer gets you some additional defensive spells like Shield and Absorb Elements, as well as ranged damage cantrips to shores up one of the traditional Paladin weaknesses: ranged enemies. Otherwise, get to Paladin 6 ASAP, for that sweet, sweet Aura of Protection.

Therefore, with your Crown Paladin I'd start something like this, assuming Point Buy and starting at Level 3:
Variant Human
Paladin 2/Divine Soul Sorcerer 1
STR 15+1
DEX 8
CON 14
INT 8
WIS 10
CHA 15+1
Take Polearm Master as your 1st level feat.
Defense or Blind Fighting fighting style (Depending on whether you want +1 AC all the time, or the handy situational ability to fight while blinded, in darkness, obscured, or against invisible foes)
Human skill: Perception
Paladin skills: Athletics, Medicine
Background skills: Two of your choice (probably going with CHA or WIS skills, although Arcana and Religion would be thematically appropriate)
Sorcerer Cantrips: A ranged attack roll cantrip like Chill Touch/Fire Bolt, a ranged save cantrip like Sacred Flame/Toll the Dead, and two utility cantrips like Mage Hand and Minor Illusion
Sorcerer 1st level spells known: Shield, Absorb Elements
Divine Soul spell known: Cure Wounds (Good) or Bless (Lawful)
Paladin 1st level spells prepared: Heroism, Divine Favor, Shield of Faith or Protection from Good/Evil, and either Cure Wounds or Bless (whichever you didn't get from Divine Soul)

Wear heavy armor and use a 2H polearm like a glaive or halberd. Polearm Master gets you 2x polearm attacks per turn, and then 3x attacks per turn starting at Paladin 5.

Divine Favor will often be your Concentration spell of choice, giving you +1d4 to your 2x/3x attack per turn. You can also have a Plan B to Concentrate on Bless in combats when the party's Twilight Cleric and Peace Cleric/Celestial Tomelock are both using their Concentration elsewhere. Favored by the Gods is a handy tool to help you maintain Concentration if you happen to fail a Concentration check, and after Paladin 6 you'll get +CHA to Concentration checks too, plus Bless' bonus applies to Concentration as well. (So you don't need Warcaster or Resilient CON, like most casters do.) You can use Shield/Absorb Elements with your Reaction to help avoid/mitigate nasty hits or elemental effects.

Thanks to your Sorcerer level, you'll already have some 2nd level spell slots, but no 2nd level spells known. You could use these for upcasting spells like Command, Heroism, and Cure Wounds, but you'll mostly want to reserve these for Divine Smites. And save your Smites for times when you roll a Critical Hit (since that Smite dice gets doubled too), or for times when you really need to tack on additional damage to end the fight quicker.

When fighting flying/ranged enemies, your polearm isn't much use, but you can use your ranged attack roll cantrip if they have high saves, or your ranged save cantrip if they have a high AC.


From Paladin 2/Sorcerer 1, continue to take Paladin levels until you hit at least Paladin 6, going Oath of the Crown at Paladin 3. After hitting Paladin 6, decide whether or not you really want Crown's Divine Allegiance ability at Level 7. (Personally, I'd lean towards skipping Paladin 7 and just stop at Paladin 6 here.) Either way, after Paladin 6 or 7, you'd switch to just taking more Sorcerer levels. When you start taking further Sorcerer levels, choose Sorcerer/Cleric support/healing/buff spells, with a focus on adding to your combat/defensive capabilities, such as things like Mirror Image, Enlarge/Reduce, Blur, Haste, Spirit Shroud, Spirit Guardians, etc. You can also take a few Area of Effect spells like Thunderwave and Fireball. At Sorcerer 3, take Twinned and Quickened as your Metamagic picks. Twinned is great for casting a normally single-person buff like Protection from Good/Evil or Haste on both yourself and another ally. Quickened lets you cast a spell as a Bonus Action and then still make 2x melee attacks with the Attack Action all in the same round. (Or if you take the Booming Blade or Green Flame Blade cantrip at Sorcerer 4, you can Quicken that for an occasional even harder-hitting Bonus Action attack than your standard Polearm Master buttstroke.)

For ASIs, take +2 STR at Paladin 4, Sentinel or +2 CHA at Sorcerer 4, and then at Sorcerer 8 take whichever one of Sentinel or +2 CHA you didn't take at Sorcerer 4.

A great thing about this build is that it allows you to makes full use of your action economy every turn: Action, Bonus Action, and Reaction. You'll always have something useful to do with your Bonus Action, between Polearm Master's buttstroke, Quickened Metamagic's spellcasting, Crown's two BA Channel Divinity options, and BA spells like Divine Favor and Shield of Faith. And you'll always have something useful to do with your Reaction too, between Opportunity Attacks, Polearm Master's attack on an enemy that closes with you, Sentinel's Reaction attack on an enemy that attacks an ally, potentially Crown Paladin's Divine Allegiance Reaction to absorb a hit against an ally, and Reaction spells like Shield/Absorb Elements. (Sometimes requiring a tough choice - As in: "I only have 1 Reaction per turn, so in this turn, am I going to use it to attack an enemy, intercede on an enemy attack against an ally, or mitigate an attack or elemental damage against myself?")

[Eldariel]

Removing Peace Cleric removes the combo of Peace Cleric + Twilight Cleric which is almost certainly stronger though. Though Celestial Genelock is fine too - there's just little competition for halving all damage when you have turn-by-turn regenerating Temp HP far as durability goes. And you need Peace Cleric 6 for that.

[animorte]

https://media1.giphy.com/media/3oAt20WaK4ZpWdD63m/giphy.gif


OMG I love this so much. Also I was going to recommend the Celestial Warlock again.


Removing Peace Cleric removes the combo of Peace Cleric + Twilight Cleric which is almost certainly stronger though. Though Celestial Genelock is fine too - there's just little competition for halving all damage when you have turn-by-turn regenerating Temp HP far as durability goes. And you need Peace Cleric 6 for that.

That's true, the 6th level allows your entire team to control the damage distribution a lot more. That's very difficult to replicate. Because of that, would you say that the GenieLock instead go 2 levels Twilight Cleric first? Then the Peace Cleric monoclass? Specifically because the sanctuary is available much earlier and further Twilight levels don't focus on that support anymore. Of course with only two levels it wouldn't scale, but if damage distribution is controlled, it doesn't make that big a difference. Personal preference, I guess?

[Eldariel]

That's true, the 6th level allows your entire team to control the damage distribution a lot more. That's very difficult to replicate. Because of that, would you say that the GenieLock instead go 2 levels Twilight Cleric first? Then the Peace Cleric monoclass? Specifically because the sanctuary is available much earlier and further Twilight levels don't focus on that support anymore. Of course with only two levels it wouldn't scale, but if damage distribution is controlled, it doesn't make that big a difference. Personal preference, I guess?

I think you'd want to single-class both (Twilight's Twilight Sanctuary is the key ability and scales by level and channel divinity uses) and just replace something else with the Lock (if there was a Monk or something, that's an easy choice), if you really want to maximize it. Or go Peace 6/X 14 if you want to multiclass that since Peace doesn't really need more than 6 levels to do all its things: its class abilities scale by proficiency so it's pretty free to multiclass past that point (okay, the level 17 ability is pretty nice but it's also level 17).

[Itsfrank]

We just about have all the characters figured out. A paladin of with oath of the crown. A cleric with twilight domain. A druid with circle of dreams. A cleric with peace domain. A monk with the way of mercy. Now we need to get the right races.
This is what I said earlier. But its changed a bit. So the things we're gonna have for sure is me on the paladin/sorcerer,
And a celric of twilight,
And a druid of dreams,
The celestial warlock,
Then you think we should do the peace cleric instead of the monk?

Also we're looking at races. I'm gonna be the variant human. Aasimar was mentioned and tiefling and a couple others. Dm ruled out races with flying though.

[Eldariel]

This is what I said earlier. But its changed a bit. So the things we're gonna have for sure is me on the paladin/sorcerer,
And a celric of twilight,
And a druid of dreams,
The celestial warlock,
Then you think we should do the peace cleric instead of the monk?

Also we're looking at races. I'm gonna be the variant human. Aasimar was mentioned and tiefling and a couple others. Dm ruled out races with flying though.

If you want the ultimate survivability, 100% Peace Cleric over Monk. It's just such an amazing combo with Twilight. Too bad about no Shepherd but Dreams is okay too - Unicorn Totem is unbeatable though. Clerics also do plenty of damage, stack well and fight well so you'll be just fine in every sense with the Cleric pick there. Giving everyone +1d4 on a roll per turn is already very strong and then you add to that the ability to split damage around your Twilight Sanctuaried party's regenerating Temp HP. That's completely irreplicable and absolutely awesome and then you have Warding Bond on top of it. And the Peace Channel Divinity is a lot of free extra healing too.

Monks can be fun but they are still, even when they are "good", the weakest class in the game so it really depends on what you're looking for but if you want to maximise healing, I don't think Monk does that.

[Itsfrank]

That does sound more reliable. We're supposed to have session zero this weekend and then starting campaign next week. Just touching up a few more things so there's still time.

[Itsfrank]

We really really appreciate everybody's help so far. I really like this community.

[Kane0]

Keep in mind this party will be well and truly beyond what the 'standard' party would be like that most campaign books assume. Your DM may have to recalibrate.

[Willowhelm]

Along with suggesting you do not take a deliberately OP pairing I’d also point out that if the campaign relies on difficulty healing and you just rock up with a party optimised for that challenge… it will drastically change the campaign and probably not for the better.

Trivialising the main challenge is a bit counter productive.

Eg. A gritty game about travelling harsh arid landscapes is less fun when you can create food and water on a whim. Or an all underdark/night game where everyone is (essentially) perma-invisible due to gloomstalker abilities.

If you make a character that is super low con and likely to contract the disease straight away… you’re going to be invested in story more than anyone else.

Of course if your fun is to just roflstomp everything put in your way then make the most OP party you can and enjoy yourself. I’m just putting out some food for thought.

[Bardon]

Basically what I would have said.

Paladin: Any
Cleric: Any
Druid: Any
Warlock: Celestial or Jorasco
Wizard: Jorasco
Sorcerer: Divine Soul or Jorasco
Monk: Mercy
Rogue: Thief with the Healer feat

Of these, Rogue is probably the most limited, as they have no way to deal with status effects unless they find magic items to UMD or something. Also it's important to note that it's the Thief subclass specifically that makes the Healer feat stand out for them.

For Rogue, wouldn't it also be reasonably good to have a Jorasco Arcane Trickster?