Magic Trick fire Ball Build Advice 11Th level

[Nosta]

So question

What race and what class should I chose.
And any particular Feats I should take?

[Max Caysey]

So question

What race and what class should I chose.
And any particular Feats I should take?

I have no clue what you are asking… maybe form a coherent sentence and explain?

[MornShine]

... fine, here.

I strongly recommend taking the feat Magic Trick (Fireball) (https://www.aonprd.com/FeatDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Magic%20Trick). The spell Fireball is also useful. Thus, choose a class with Fireball.

Be mindful of the huge number of prerequisites for the various Tricks. Also, they pretty much aren't useful, especially at 11th level.

Widen Spell metamagic and Concentrated Fire trick synergize, but ultimately aren't worth the metamagic adjustment imo. Same for the Sculpted Flames trick.

Gnome has a Pyromancer alternate racial feature for a bonus to fire spell CL. If you really want to focus on Fireball, the sorcerer bloodlines should allow you some energy flexibility and/or bonus CL. Check out the sorcerer alternate features (blood havoc, etc.), they might be particularly useful.

If 3.5 is allowed, Arcane Thesis (Fireball) and Fire Gnome races are always doable.

[icefractal]

Didn't know about this feat. Interesting, although how lousy the first trick (alchemist's fire) is nearly made me give up on it - why does Paizo overvalue ongoing damage so much? Do their playtest fights typically go 10+ rounds and the PCs spread out damage as evenly as possible?

Concentrated + Cluster Bomb has a nice effect (free Empower and no cap) at the cost of dropping it to a 5' radius. Cluster Bomb used to actually spread things out not so much, but could be good if you're attaching a rider effect.

With Widen ... 6th level slot, 5d6 per two levels (in a 5' radius) - pretty good actually. If you can't combine those two (didn't see any restriction but maybe missed it), then that's pretty meh until high levels, where Cluster Bomb at least uncaps it at the cost of smaller area.

The smoke one isn't impressive in general use, but does fill a niche you might not otherwise have.

[Gorthawar]

A level of sanctified one (Kord) turns all your fire spells into divine fire if you want to which could help with fire immune opponents. Don't know if you can use it in Pathfinder though.

[AsuraKyoko]

That is a super cool feat, and I like the idea behind it a lot. t allows a character to specialize in a single spell, while still getting some versatility with it. There's only a handful of spells that it affects, but it gives some nice templating for the kinds of things that can be done with other spells. Hell, I'd probably work with a PC to develop the special effects they can get for their favored spell, perhaps having some dedicated research or experimentation time for the character to try things out.

[TheStranger]

Cluster Bomb essentially removes the damage cap at the cost of a smaller AoE and/or lets you be a little bit creative with who you're hitting and how hard, so that's pretty useful. It's basically a combination Intensify/Widen with no level increase, and no prerequisites beyond Spellcraft ranks. And as noted, Concentrated Fire is a free Empower on top of that if you really need to hammer a small target. Sculpt Flames could also be situationally useful when you need an oddly-shaped Fireball for something. Selective Spell is a prerequisite for both Concentrated Fire and Sculpt Flames, so unless you really want Widen Spell it's probably the way to go to unlock those (though Widen does synergize well with Concentrated Fire).

I assume you'll focus heavily on the Fireball spell, so the Magical Lineage trait is a good choice - cheaper metamagic on your favorite spell is handy. At higher levels, you could take Spell Perfection instead and get free metamagic, but that doesn't come online until level 15. But metamagic rods are a thing, and you should have a bunch of them - you'll only need the Lesser version for Fireball. Keep one in each hand, and you basically have two extra feats that you can swap out as needed.

I like to attach debuff metamagic like Blissful Spell, Authoritative Spell, or Dazing Spell to AoE spells, because it gives them a lot more utility than just dealing damage. Cluster Bomb or Sculpt Flames should let you tag most of the battlefield, too. (Greater) Spell Focus is helpful in boosting save DCs so your debuffs hit. Spell Penetration is handy when you need it, but a Piercing metamagic rod is a cheap alternative. You could also take Spell Specialization to boost your caster level, since the effects of Cluster Bomb and Sculpt Flames are level-dependent and uncapped. For just boosting damage, Empower Spell is generally better than Maximize. Intensified Spell is good at higher levels if you're not using Cluster Bomb, but useless if you are. It should stack with Concentrated Fire, though.

In terms of classes, Sorcerer and Wizard both have some advantages. Sorcerer is good for sheer number of spell slots and being able to metamagic on the fly. If you just want to spam Fireball, that's probably the way to go, and you still shouldn't be so much of a one-trick pony that you're completely shut down by anything with fire immunity or Evasion. Wizard, as always, gives you tons of flexibility and non-gimped metamagic, and bonus feats and earlier access to spell levels never hurt. OTOH, as a Wizard you can only cast as many Fireballs as you actually prepared (and if you're preparing nothing but Fireball, you might as well be a Sorcerer and have more of them) and you have to pick your metamagic ahead of time unless you're using a rod. Personally, I think Sorcerer would be more fun for this build, just to load up on metamagic via rods and feats and see how many different tricks you can pull off with one spell before your DM throws something at you. "I cast Fireball again, but *this* time it actually does cold damage and anybody who fails their save has to bark like a dog for two rounds."

[Jack_Simth]

But metamagic rods are a thing, and you should have a bunch of them - you'll only need the Lesser version for Fireball. Keep one in each hand, and you basically have two extra feats that you can swap out as needed.Problem: You need a free hand for casting anything that has Somatic components, which Fireball does. Also for manipulating material components, which Fireball has. So to do two rods, you'll need either a third hand, or a way to avoid needing to manipulate the components (e.g., Eschew Materials & Still Spell, a Caster's Tattoo (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/r-z/tattoo-caster-s/), or some other route).

[TheStranger]

Problem: You need a free hand for casting anything that has Somatic components, which Fireball does. Also for manipulating material components, which Fireball has. So to do two rods, you'll need either a third hand, or a way to avoid needing to manipulate the components (e.g., Eschew Materials & Still Spell, a Caster's Tattoo (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/r-z/tattoo-caster-s/), or some other route).

You are entirely correct. I always forget about components because my table always handwaves them. Play a tiefling and hold one in your tail? Take the Quick Draw feat? Polymorph into something with multiple arms? Or just use one rod at a time and take more of the feats, but that’s no fun.

[Kitsuneymg]

Look up the guide to the block buster wizard. Here’s a one drive link (https://onedrive.live.com/view.aspx?resid=CF830C0FA4CEE8DE%21489&ithint=file%2Cpdf&app=WordPdf&authkey=%21AA9Vz3wOw6b-VZQ). On mobile, I need to view as desktop to get passed the “you can’t view this as a pdf.” Never use one drive.

It’s a pretty solid save-based build that champions fireball as the highest level spell you’ll really want. It plays games with caster level and metamagic stuff. You can, of course, also use spell trick and alchemical power components (alchemist fire, saltpeter, urea for cold version, etc.)

If you wanna just do damage and (later) BFC, it’s a great build to do that. You may find a dip into half-orc/dragon sorcerer useful for getting some bonus damage, but it’s probably not necessary.

If third party is open, please let me know and I can give you a whole host of hilarious Spheres of Power games to play around the “I set it on fire” theme.