(3.X) I need help making a Vestige for Grumsh and other dead gods (in my setting)

[Jervis]

Hello all! I'm working on throwing together some homebrew for a setting i made. In said setting the gods of most of the stereotypically monsterous races are all dead. Mainly its the Goblinoid gods and Grumsh that all died off so Malglubet and Grumsh need some binder vestiges for lore reasons. Most goblins are part of another religion started by a (probably) Hobgoblin who killed off those gods because he thought they were oppressing their own creations into a life and afterlife of constant warfare and thus didn't deserve their divine status, but Orcs are about 60/40 split between holdouts of the old ways trying to revive Grumsh and moving on to other ways of life. So there are a few small cults of goblin binders trying to bring back their pantheon and large groups of orcish raiders trying to do the orcish raider thing of attacking communities trying to do the same.

So to move past the worldbuilding aspect and to the reason why this isn't in worldbuilding or homebrew (but mods feel free to move it there if you think it's more fitting), i need ideas for vestiges. For grumsh i have a divine power light that sets bab to 3/4 hd or binder level (not sure which) and a aoe spell like based off the domains he offers, but for the others i have no idea.

[MinimanMidget]

Binders already have 3/4 BAB, so that seems odd. For Gruumsh as a vestige, I would look at the Eye of Gruumsh PrC for inspiration. It's exactly the kind of random assortment of thematic abilities that most vestiges seem to be.

I do have to ask, are there special circumstances that made all these dead gods into vestiges? The vast majority of dead gods are not vestiges, and in general, vestiges only come into (non) being under highly unusual (if not unique) conditions.

[Jervis]

Binders already have 3/4 BAB, so that seems odd. For Gruumsh as a vestige, I would look at the Eye of Gruumsh PrC for inspiration. It's exactly the kind of random assortment of thematic abilities that most vestiges seem to be.

I do have to ask, are there special circumstances that made all these dead gods into vestiges? The vast majority of dead gods are not vestiges, and in general, vestiges only come into (non) being under highly unusual (if not unique) conditions.

Fair point the bab alteration would be pretty useless if it was 3/4 unless you were doing some oddly specific multiclassing. As for the reasoning why they became vestiges, it goes by the logic that deities normally absorb the divinity of gods they kill, and when they don't it just kinda floats there in the void. The one that killed those two didn't want anything to do with their power so he just sent it flying off into the void. Now since they didn't have their souls absorbed they're in this dead but not gone state somewhere between planes where no one can reach them.

[noce]

For Gruumsh I'd say:

Influence: One of the names of Gruumsh was "He Who Never Sleeps", as he was never tired as a God. Now, as a Vestige, he requires you to fail any saving throw that would render you fatigued, exhausted or asleep.
Sign: Your left eye disappears, leaving you with an empty eye socket.
Granted Abilities: Gruumsh helps you see what you alone would miss, and grants you a portion of its might.
Hatred Foe: You get Favored Enemy: Elves.
Second Glance: Gruumsh all-seeing eye supports your own sight. Before rolling a die, you can decide to roll two dice and take the higher result. Activating this ability requires no action, as it is part of the action that requires the die roll. This ability only works on tasks related on eyesight or eye contact, which include but are not limited to attack rolls, reflex saving throws, the skills appraise, search, spot, survival, forgery checks to examine a suspicious document, sense motive checks involving body language, social skill checks involving glances or stares. Once you have used this ability, you cannot do so again for 5 rounds. You cannot use this ability if you do not show Gruumsh's sign.
Ghostly Sight: You have the Blind-Fight feat. Starting from level 11th, you have Blindsense 30ft. This effect only works while you show Gruumsh's sign.
Orcish Steel: You are proficient with Orc Double Axe and treat both ends as one handed weapons for purposes of using Power Attack; also, you apply your full strength on both ends of the weapon. While wielding a Orc Double Axe, you are treated as having the Two-Weapon Fighting feat, starting from an effective Binder level of 8th you are treated as also having the Improved Two-Weapon Fighting feat and starting from an effective Binder level of 16th you are treated as also having the Greater Two-Weapon Fighting feat.
Glare of Dread: You wide open your empty eye socket, showing an otherworldy red light pulsating in it that terrifies your enemies. When you use this ability, each opponent within 30 feet of you must succeed on a Will save or cower for 1 round. Enemies are also shaken for 1 round per Binder level, regardless of whether or not they succeeded on the saving throw. Activating this ability requires a standard action before effective Binder level 9th, a move action at 9th level and a swift action at 13th level. This is a mind-affecting, fear effect. Once you have used this ability, you cannot do so again for 5 rounds. You cannot use this ability if you do not show Gruumsh's sign.



Adjust action economy of Glare of Dread depending on the power level of your campaign.
Vestige Level is up to you, I'd say 3rd level so your orcs can bind him quite soon.

[Beni-Kujaku]

In general‚ vestiges have only one /5 rounds ability. I'd change the "roll 2 dice‚ take the best" with a flat +1 to attack rolls and initiative. 3rd level vestige seems nice. If you want a more powerful vestige (6th or 7th level maybe?)‚ consider making him give full BAB‚ and a big bonus to Sunder items‚ to relate to Grumsh's brutality.
Something like :

- full BAB for your Binder class levels (doesn't include PrC advancing binding. If you want more cheese‚ you can say "increase your BAB by 1 per 4 Binder levels‚ rounded up" which may be abused with Knight of the Sacred Seal)
- Blindsense 30ft‚ ignores partial concealment
- bonus equal to your Binder level to Sunder attempts 1/5 rounds‚ gains the Improved Sunder feat
- proficiency with all orc weapons
- can Intimidate all creatures within 30ft by a swift action each time you deal a critical hit with a melee weapon or drop an opponent below 0HP.

[noce]

In general‚ vestiges have only one /5 rounds ability.

Quite a number of Vestiges have two abilities with a 1/5 rounds usage: Andras, Astaroth, Dantalion, Desharis, Halphax, Haures, Tenebrous, Zceryll.
There's enough of them I wouldn't tell only 1 such ability to be a general rule.

Anyway, Second Glance is mostly an out of combat / general purpose ability. It could just be a passive flat bonus, but I thought the "roll twice" mechanic would have fit more.

[Jervis]

Thanks for the help everyone. Does anyone know of a good PrC to pull features for Malgoubet from?

[noce]

Thanks for the help everyone. Does anyone know of a good PrC to pull features for Malgoubet from?

Only one I'm aware of is the stonedeath assassin, for goblins that hate dwarves.
The only thing I know about Maglubiyet is that he purposely sent his two sons to suicidal missions until they died, it can be useful for coming up with an appropriate influence (e.g. when someone asks you for help you must initially propose a suicidal way to help him, but you are free to change your mind right after).