What does the snarl want?

[Martijn]

I've been thinking about the snarl a bit, and what it wants.

The snarl was born out of conflict, destroyed the world that was, wiped out the eastern pantheon, and since then broke out of every prison built for it, in an endless loop.

I find myself wondering, why? The snarl is presented (by Thor) as a creature purely bent on destruction. But that's hardly a motivation. Besides, as any writer will tell you, conflict is the driving force behind creation. Why don't we see any of that in the Snarl? What would the snarl do if not stopped? And what evidence do we have for that, and how reliable is it? I wouldn't necessarily believe the gods on their word.


I'm not saying the Snarl is just a poor misunderstood puppy, but maybe there is more to it than we know now.

[Mike Havran]

You're thinking about Snarl as a character. I don't think that possibility is ruled out, but I believe it will not turn out this way. In my opinion, Snarl is just materialized destruction, or perhaps even entropy. It's like asking what does a fire want. Nothing. It just burns until it is put out or consumes everything. And the Snarl can't be put out, not right now. It's like a Darvaza crater (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darvaza_gas_crater) of the multiverse.

[Fyraltari]

We don't know if the Snarl is even sentient enough to have wants the way an animal would.

However the existence of the World-Within indicates that it is not as simple as "pure undiscriminate destruction".

[Martijn]

More than an animal level of intelligence is suggested by the scribbles:

"[T]he Snarl [was] growing everyday, growing more complex, growing more intelligent, growing more hateful."

[ti'esar]

My sense based on the Giant's comments on the matter ("the Macguffin is not the antagonist" and so forth) is that the Snarl doesn't really want anything, yeah. It's just a chaotic force of destruction.

However, there's enough unanswered questions that the possibility can't be entirely dismissed - but by that same token it's kind of impossible to guess.

(The only real opinion I have at this point is that the world in the rifts and the first world are directly connected in some way - it's not an unrelated development or one of the intermediary worlds.)

[Precure]

I think the primary motivation behind the Snarl's actions is their hate toward their creators. Reason for this hate is yet to be discovered.

[hamishspence]

Reason for this hate is yet to be discovered.That they were feeling "hostility and frustration" each time they "created a snag/snarl"

https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0273.html

with The Snarl being the accumulation of all this:

https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0274.html

seems like enough of a reason to me.

[Psyren]

I find myself wondering, why? The snarl is presented (by Thor) as a creature purely bent on destruction. But that's hardly a motivation. Besides, as any writer will tell you, conflict is the driving force behind creation. Why don't we see any of that in the Snarl? What would the snarl do if not stopped? And what evidence do we have for that, and how reliable is it? I wouldn't necessarily believe the gods on their word.

"Force of nature villains" are perfectly valid from a writing standpoint too - consider the Fifth Element's Ball of Space Evil for example. There the interesting question isn't "what would the force do if not stopped" (we already know the answer to that, wipe out everything) but rather "can the heroes set aside their differences to defeat it?"


I'm not saying the Snarl is just a poor misunderstood puppy, but maybe there is more to it than we know now.

I think there is too - it might be sapient, or at least sentient - but the problem is that, if it truly is composed entirely of hostility, then it may not be possible to reason with it at all without fundamentally altering its nature in some way. Doing so would be like... trying to reason with a child mid-tantrum without making any attempt to calm them down first.

The "planet within a planet" may be the key to this - being a world that, unlike every other world in the Stickverse's history, was not created by the gods. Could the Snarl have made it? If so, did it do so on purpose or by accident? And that world might be composed of four quiddities - the same four the Snarl is made of - and therefore be "realer" than all worlds save the very first one.

[Ron Miel]

The simple answer is, the story hasn't told us yet what the Snarl wants.

According to legend, which we learned way back in strip #273 (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0273.html), the Snarl is intelligent and malevolent. It destroys just for love of destruction. It isn't a mindless force of nature. It knows what it is doing.

But we keep getting information that changes that picture. There is a world inside the rift. What is that about? Did the Snarl create it? Even the gods don't understand the true nature of the Snarl. They don't even know the world in the rifts exists.

We are in the final book of the series. We shall learn the true nature of the Snarl. Maybe Serini will tell us shortly. Maybe 150 strips from now.

[Psyren]

The simple answer is, the story hasn't told us yet what the Snarl wants.

According to legend, which we learned way back in strip #273 (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0273.html), the Snarl is intelligent and malevolent. It destroys just for love of destruction. It isn't a mindless force of nature. It knows what it is doing.

But we keep getting information that changes that picture. There is a world inside the rift. What is that about? Did the Snarl create it? Even the gods don't understand the true nature of the Snarl. They don't even know the world in the rifts exists.

We are in the final book of the series. We shall learn the true nature of the Snarl. Maybe Serini will tell us shortly. Maybe 150 strips from now.

Force of nature doesn't have to equal mindless. Corypheus from Dragon Age, Vaatu from Legend of Korra, Gozer from Ghostbusters, the original Majin Buu - all have varying amounts of intelligence. What matters is that they have no real motive beyond pure destruction, domination, or both.

[brian 333]

I am wondering if The Snarl's interaction with Laurin is its first interaction with a psion? Perhaps that will be key to its learning to communicate. Perhaps because of or through Laurin's telepathic contact, we will finally learn what The Snarl wants.

[Psyren]

I am wondering if The Snarl's interaction with Laurin is its first interaction with a psion? Perhaps that will be key to its learning to communicate. Perhaps because of or through Laurin's telepathic contact, we will finally learn what The Snarl wants.

Judging by her eyes I'd guess she was overwhelmed by its magnitude pretty much immediately, but yeah, she might have gleaned some info that we don't have yet. (And now I'm thinking of Star Trek Discovery where the characters mind-meld with the species outside the galaxy in the most recent season)

[Fyraltari]

Judging by her eyes I'd guess she was overwhelmed by its magnitude pretty much immediately, but yeah, she might have gleaned some info that we don't have yet. (And now I'm thinking of Star Trek Discovery where the characters mind-meld with the species outside the galaxy in the most recent season)

Generally speaking, mind-contact with an otherworldly aberration beyond human comprehension tends to have negative side-effects, mental health-wise.

[dancrilis]

Snarls just want to have fun.

[Metastachydium]

I've just had a new revelation! Obviously, the Snarl uploaded a part of its consciousness into Laurin to use her as a meat puppet and now it's LOOSE!

[brian 333]

I've just had a new revelation! Obviously, the Snarl uploaded a part of its consciousness into Laurin to use her as a meat puppet and now it's LOOSE!

I'm thinking that Laurin's a goner, but my point was that The Snarl may have gleaned info about the methods and purposes of communication, which it may have previously have lacked.

[Metastachydium]

I'm thinking that Laurin's a goner

Of course she is, but now the SNARL IS WEARING HER BODY like a stupid man suit!

[Peelee]

Of course she is, but now the SNARL IS WEARING HER BODY like a stupid man suit!

What, like an Edgar suit?

[Metastachydium]

What, like an Edgar suit?

…
What's an Edgar suit?

[Fyraltari]

…
What's an Edgar suit?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_bnRD7aaok

[Metastachydium]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_bnRD7aaok

Oh. That Edgar. In that case: kind of?

(Also, for the reference: I was thinking of a different stupid man suit (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=keJPaDSVzOs) when I used that exact turn of phrase, albeit one that's not terribly alike Snarl!Laurin in any meaningful way.)

[Satohika]

I don't think it really wants anything. It's similar to an angry animal, attacking anything in front of it.

[hungrycrow]

Delicious fruit pies.

[Cazero]

Delicious fruit pies.
Wich is why Fruit Pie the sorcerer survived his world's undoing ! Genius !

[Zelest]

Simple answer - not enough information was shared about The Snarl at this point. For several reasons:
1) The only information we have received about The Snarl comes from the gods - either directly or indirectly through Shojo. I would consider them an unreliable party at best - they are not very interested in in exploring the nature of the Snarl, only in containing it. And they have underestimated it before. As such, I would not assume any knowledge shared by the gods to be 100% accurate.
2) Even if the gods did have perfect knowledge about the nature of The Snarl - I doubt they would share its entirety. We have already seen that they will not shrink from lying to their own followers, either directly or through omission. Even the "Good" ones.
So, we have two huge blind spots - one pertaining to how much the gods know, the other to how much they would be willing to share of what they DO know. And, seeing as how we have already seen that the version we were told - about a malevolent, chaotic entity only interested in destruction - does not precisely overlap with reality - the planet in the rift, we simply do not have enough information to make any educated guesses.

[Quizatzhaderac]

Besides, as any writer will tell you, conflict is the driving force behind creation. That's only true so far as the conflict can be packaged into the framework of the story.

In my opinion, the snarl represents the creative differences between the many, many creators of dungeons and dragons. A "Continuity snarl". Trying to keep all of the different contributions in at once is just a confusing mess.

By analgoy: Who was secretly controlling the marvel cinematic universe in the year 2000? If you've seen one movie, you might have one of several answers. If you've seen them all you either have no answer or you have a bulletin board full of thumb tacks and strings.

[elros]

That's only true so far as the conflict can be packaged into the framework of the story.

In my opinion, the snarl represents the creative differences between the many, many creators of dungeons and dragons. A "Continuity snarl". Trying to keep all of the different contributions in at once is just a confusing mess.
I view the snarl a bit differently- the Snarl is the manifestation of creative differences so significant that they tear the world apart. But without some differences, things get stagnant and boring. There has to be balance, so the solution may be a way to tone down the conflict to avoid either destruction or stagnation.
What does that mean in the world of OOTS? I think that the Snarl will not just be walled off, but some characters will be brought into it to create that balance. Does that tie into Elan happy ending? We will have to wait and see…

[goodyarn]

I note that inside the rift is a world where nobody expected there to be a world.
I suggest that either the Snarl created that world, or the Snarl made itself into that world, or some combination of the two.
I keep going back to Odin's line during the Godsmoot, "I see worlds within worlds and yarn winding yarn."
This universe is made of yarn.
When left alone, the Snarl, itself made of yarn, made itself into a world, or created a world.
The Snarl likes to world build.
This may not be ALL the Snarl wants, but from what I observe, it is at least one thing that the Snarl wants, or at any rate does.

[brian 333]

Conjecture at best, but conjecture with which I agree. I think The Snarl wants at least a starter culture of life. This is why I think Elan's Happy Ending involves going to the new world in the rift and beginning a new campaign, with The Snarl as DM.

[The Extinguisher]

My take here is i dont trust the folks who are willing to kill everyone else to save their own skin to not have lied through their teeth about everything. Unraveling the knot is significantly better than just covering it up

[Snails]

I saw that the Snarl was inspired by the idea a Bad Player feeding off the many real problems that can arise in a crazy gaming group, and using them to "upend the chess board" in a tantrum. That tantrum brought into the limelight many rifts between players/friends and one of the group regular DMs stormed out, never to return (i.e. an entire pantheon was killed).

That is the inspiration. Not an argument about what the Snarl of the story we have is.

Given the fate of a million or more worlds, the Snarl in the past was provably close to a wanton force of hateful destruction, for a very long time.

The world within the world though, that could easily be a thing not seen before.

My belief is what the Snarl wants has changed. I further believe the Snarl changed for a specific reason that is hinted at in story: Kraagor was trapped with the Snarl.

Everyone presumes that the Snarl killed Kraagor. Obviously that is possible. But what if Kraagor survived long enough to convince the Snarl to talk? The Scribble Tale specifies that mortals have significantly more staying power against the Snarl (which we now guess is due to sentient creatures being multi-quiddity). What is tougher than an Epic Dwarven Barbarian? Not even the gods, apparently.

Perhaps Kraagor could teach an angry god-like being that is used to destroying other people's creation, that he can be a creator himself?

This story is not going to be about bottling the Snarl up again. Even Thor's idea of using TDO quiddity does not sound like more than a very long lasting bandaid. The story's resolution is going to be about something else, where well-founded fear of the Snarl is driving characters towards and against each other.

[elros]

Conjecture at best, but conjecture with which I agree. I think The Snarl wants at least a starter culture of life. This is why I think Elan's Happy Ending involves going to the new world in the rift and beginning a new campaign, with The Snarl as DM.
I agree- the Snarl has countless worlds with no players. Sounds like a great opportunity for Elan.

[Bohandas]

"some men aren't looking for anything logical. some men just want to watch the world burn"

[faustin]

I think the primary motivation behind the Snarl's actions is their hate toward their creators. Reason for this hate is yet to be discovered.


Having being created in the first place.
If you have played Horizon Zero Dawn, the Snarl is pretty much Nemesis, including on its motivations.

[Fyraltari]

Having being created in the first place.
If you have played Horizon Zero Dawn, the Snarl is pretty much Nemesis, including on its motivations.

The Snarl hates being alive? Relatable.

[Imbalance]

I saw that the Snarl was inspired by the idea a Bad Player feeding off the many real problems that can arise in a crazy gaming group, and using them to "upend the chess board" in a tantrum. That tantrum brought into the limelight many rifts between players/friends and one of the group regular DMs stormed out, never to return (i.e. an entire pantheon was killed).

That is the inspiration. Not an argument about what the Snarl of the story we have is.

This isn't far from my interpretation. Ever since Thor's exposition, I have read it as the Snarl representing real world interruptions to RPG campaigns - all the simple things like scheduling conflicts and players losing interest as well as personality clashes, incompatible DMing styles, rules lawyering, etc. that have ended uncountable group make-believe adventures. That's why we see Earth in that one frame: it is literally the really real world and its ensnaring pitfalls that have destroyed countless fantasy worlds, but the gods (dedicated players and DMs) just end up starting a new one each time. This time, though, the Snarl hasn't managed to disrupt the current campaign yet, and my take is that the comic will reach a finale where the avatars meet their players, the BBEG will meet the DM, and that meta event will resolve the entirety of the plot, somehow. Thus, I don't believe that the Snarl has any desires or will within the story - it's less a character than an inevitability personified.

I don't pop into this forum very often, but surely this possibility has already been raised. Or maybe it's just me and I'm way off...

[Peelee]

This isn't far from my interpretation. Ever since Thor's exposition, I have read it as the Snarl representing real world interruptions to RPG campaigns - all the simple things like scheduling conflicts and players losing interest as well as personality clashes, incompatible DMing styles, rules lawyering, etc. that have ended uncountable group make-believe adventures. That's why we see Earth in that one frame: it is literally the really real world and its ensnaring pitfalls that have destroyed countless fantasy worlds, but the gods (dedicated players and DMs) just end up starting a new one each time. This time, though, the Snarl hasn't managed to disrupt the current campaign yet, and my take is that the comic will reach a finale where the avatars meet their players, the BBEG will meet the DM, and that meta event will resolve the entirety of the plot, somehow. Thus, I don't believe that the Snarl has any desires or will within the story - it's less a character than an inevitability personified.

I don't pop into this forum very often, but surely this possibility has already been raised. Or maybe it's just me and I'm way off...
Not Earth.

So no, it STILL isn't Earth in the Rift. It will never be Earth in the Rift. Earth will never show up.