Looking for ideas on a Strength/Grapple/Push Swords Bard

[Talionis]

I am thinking of starting Fighter for Heavy Armor proficiency and Constitution save proficiency. Then going Swords Bard. Focusing on grappling, pushing, shoving prone, etc.

I think this build can use all three flourishes well. If you are grappling increasing your AC is important to protect you from what you have grappled. If you are shoving, the added push flourish can help with positioning, potentially combining with Crusher Feat and Shield Master feat to maneuver one or several enemies on the battlefield.

But I’m unsure what other things to pair with this to flesh it out.

I feel like you would try to steer clear of relying on Charisma for spell choices. Summoning might pair well with this. I’ve even thought of using Warding Bond with a summon that is particularly tough or that naturally regenerates to make this character more sturdy.

A character with good positioning abilities might be able to use Cloud of Daggers that is on the Bard spell list.

Eventually (probably after Extra Attack), I think it would be reasonable to dip Fighter two for Action Surge. This would allow you to start a fight by casting a spell like Cloud of Daggers and then use movement and positioning abilities to move a couple enemies into the Cloud of Daggers.

What Magical Secrets would be fun since I’ll probably have a 13 in Charisma? Enlarge/Reduce is on my radar.

I am looking for good combos to flesh this out as I am starting a new campaign soon and this may go on for an eventual high level campaign like our last campaign.

Any thoughts, advice on spells and ASI are very appreciated.

[RogueJK]

I feel like you would try to steer clear of relying on Charisma for spell choices. Summoning might pair well with this.

Depends on the Summoning spell. The new Summon X spells from TCoE all rely on your spellcasting modifier for various things. Whereas the older Conjure X spells do not. Similarly, Animate Objects doesn't rely on your spellcasting modifier, and unlike the Summon X/Conjure X spells is already on the Bard spell list.


A character with good positioning abilities might be able to use Cloud of Daggers that is on the Bard spell list.

Yep, and this still works well even with a middling CHA score, since CoD allows no save. It also upcasts nicely for added damage.


What Magical Secrets would be fun since I’ll probably have a 13 in Charisma?

While your stat focus will be STR, you don't want to totally dump CHA with something like a 13, since you have other abilities that relies on CHA, like your number of Bardic Inspiration/Flourish uses. A Swords Bard with 13 CHA would only have one Flourish per day until Level 5, and then only one Flourish per short rest. That's going to feel very disappointing... So go with a 16ish CHA instead, which is quite doable while still focusing on STR.


Enlarge/Reduce is on my radar.

Enlarge/Reduce, Enhance Ability, or Hex can all boost your Grappling capabilities, with Enlarge and Hex both also adding to your melee damage output. But Bards already have Enhance Ability on their spell list, and also have accesss to Enlarge post-Tasha's, so you won't need to spend any Magical Secrets pick on those.

Therefore go with Hex. It lasts much longer than Enlarge, can affect more than one enemy over the course of its duration, can be used with lower level slots, and adds more damage than Enlarge while at the same time still debuffing the enemy's contested grapple check. For your 2nd Magical Secret, take one of the abovementioned Conjure spells, with Conjure Animals likely being the best option.

Alternately, you could pick up Hex using the Fey Touched feat instead of a Magical Secret, and also get it online at a lower level instead of having to wait until Bard 10. That would free up your other Magical Secret for something else, like Counterspell, especially if nobody else in the party has access to that. (Even though you won't have a maxed out CHA, Bards get to add half their proficiency bonus to the roll thanks to Jack of All Trades, which will make up for it. And you can also upcast Counterspell to potentially avoid the spellcasting check altogether.) Or if there are already other Counterspellers in the party, then there's always the Magical Secret default picks of Wall of Force, or Find Greater Steed for a flying mount for exploration/travel.


Any thoughts, advice on spells and ASI are very appreciated.

Perhaps something like this for a heavy armor STR-based Grapple Bard:
Half Elf Fighter 1 > Swords Bard X
STR 14+2
DEX 10
CON 15+1
INT 8
WIS 10
CHA 14+1

Take either +2 STR or Fey Touched (+1 CHA, Hex) at Bard 4, then at Bard 8 take whichever one you didn't at 4. Then max out STR at Bard 12, followed by +2 CHA or something like Lucky at Bard 16.

You'll still have a 16 CHA by Bard 4 or Bard 8 depending on when exactly you take Fey Touched, which gets you 3x Sword Flourishes per rest, and a Jack of All Trades-boosted Counterspell check that's equivalent to a 20 CHA at Level 10.

Go with Expertise in Athletics and then something like Perception or Persuasion. Take either Defense or Blind Fighting style from Fighter, then Dueling from Swords Bard. Wear Heavy Armor and use a Longsword/Warhammer/Battleaxe in one hand, which both triggers Dueling's bonus damage on your attacks as well as leaves your other hand free for grappling.

As for spells, there are a ton of good Bard spells that don't care that you're not maxing out CHA, such as:

Utility rituals like Comprehend Languages/Speak with Animals/Detect Magic/Identify/Tiny Hut/etc.
Disguise Self
Feather Fall
Heroism
Healing Word
Aid
Cloud of Daggers
Mirror Image
Enlarge/Reduce
Enhance Ability
Heat Metal (no save involved when cast on metal armor)
Invisibility
Knock
Lesser/Greater Restoration
Locate Object/Creature
Pyrotechnics
See Invisibility
Silence
Catnap
Intellect Fortress
Mass Healing Word
Plant Growth
Sending
Tongues
Dimension Door
Freedom of Movement
Greater Invisibility
Polymorph/Mass Polymorph/True Polymorph (no save needed when cast on willing allies)
Animate Objects
Raise Dead
Teleportation Circle
True Seeing
Heroes Feast
Forcecage
Regenerate
Resurrection
Teleport
Glibness
Foresight
Power Word Heal

Plus you'll also learn Hex and Misty Step from Fey Touched, and Counterspell and Conjure Animals from Magical Secrets at Bard 10.

Combat could start off with you casting Hex as a Bonus Action, then wading into melee to attack and grapple the Hexed enemy with your Action, shoving them prone and holding them there for Advantaged attacks until they die, then moving your Hex onto the next victim to start again. Or alternately, summoning some friends with Conjure Animals/Animate Objects with your Action in Round 1, then wading in to attack/grapple starting in Round 2 while your buddies beat up on your grappled foe. Or Grappling someone in Round 1, then casting Cloud of Daggers in Round 2 and dragging them into it, following by repeatedly stabbing them and dragging them out then back into the cloud in subsequent turns.

[Talionis]

That’s was awesome help.

Any thoughts to Summons? I am specifically looking for Planar Binding a source of lots of hit points or regeneration for a Warding Bond target?

[sithlordnergal]

Sooo, when building a grappler build, there's one very specific issue with grappling that you're going to need to fix. And that issue is the fact that "The target of your grapple must be no more than one size larger than you and must be within your reach". Meaning if you're a Medium sized creature, you simply cannot grapple a Huge or larger creature. I've actually seen this in action before, where a player was using a pure grapple build, came up against a Huge creature, and realized they simply couldn't do anything during that encounter.


Now, there is a way to get around this, and this is what I recommend:

For starters take the Rune Knight subclass. Its a pretty darn good subclass on its own, and the Runes actually give you a lot of passive bonuses. Some of which can be really handy for a Fighter/Bard. Cloud Rune in particular gives you advantage on all Deception checks as a passive bonus. However, we're more interested in Giant Might. You become Large as a Bonus Action for 1 minute, and you can do so a number of times equal to your proficiency modifier per Long Rest. It also gives you Advantage on Strength checks and Strength saves, and you deal an extra 1d6 damage once per turn.

Next, you'll want to take Enlarge/Reduce. Now, Rogue's analysis of Hex vs. Enlarge is correct, Hex provides Disadvantage to the Strength check, lasts longer, adds more damage, and can affect more creatures. However, they missed the one major boon Enlarge gives you: Your size increases by one category, which allows you to grapple more creatures. Its important to note that this actually stacks with the Rune Knight. Giant Might turns you into a Large creature, then you can cast Enlarge/Reduce to increase your size again and become a Huge creature. As a Huge creature, you can grapple pretty much everything, even Gargantuan Dragons.

Finally, take the Unarmed Fighting Style. This makes your Unarmed Strikes deal 1d6, or 1d8 if you're not carrying a shield/weapon. It also lets you deal 1d4 damage to a creature you're grappling for free at the start of your turn. Its not much, but at the same time its still handy to have.