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View Full Version : DM Help One Page Dungeon Contest 2022 - seeking entry feedback



jjordan
2022-03-20, 12:14 PM
Seeking feedback for my third draft of my submission for the 2022 One Page Dungeon contest.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/10LDew6DNzVjrrMEPC1ug8BkpEVIzCQzR/view?usp=sharing

The contest rules (see link below) specify that the entry should be system generic and not even mention what system, if any, it's designed for.
https://www.dungeoncontest.com/submission-rules

I cleaned up some issues with the map. It's far from perfect but I think it's very usable now. I cleaned up a lot of the writing and added some information. I know comic sans is much derided but, of the fonts available to me, it reads the easiest and looks the best. I did a little more system anonymization. I think it's a very scalable and playable little scenario that could be tossed in to a lot of places. A vertical well layout would have worked better in more settings (and been easier to map) but the Indian baoris/stepwells were just too darn cool.

Palanan
2022-03-22, 07:44 PM
Second paragraph, first sentence, you need a closing parenthesis.

Fourth paragraph, third sentence: “Number of party members +2 soldiers.” Not clear what this means.

In the sentence about walls decorated with reliefs, “asparas” should be “apsaras.”

In the purple sidebar about the naiad, “worshiped” should be “worshipped.”



I really like the inspiration from the Rani Ki Vav stepwell, but your illustration doesn’t really convey the scale or the beauty of the original. There may be only so much you can do in a one-page format, but I found the diagram a little confusing at first.

Also, “for decades they prospered and then they died” raises the question of why they died, since the phrasing suggests they all died suddenly. Perhaps there was an interruption in the well that starved them of water, and left the naiad half-insane as a result?

jjordan
2022-03-22, 10:47 PM
Second paragraph, first sentence, you need a closing parenthesis.
Fixed, thank you.


Fourth paragraph, third sentence: “Number of party members +2 soldiers.” Not clear what this means.
Intended to convey the scale of the encounter. One attacker for each party member plus two additional attackers. I've changed this.


In the sentence about walls decorated with reliefs, “asparas” should be “apsaras.”
Oops. Thank you.


In the purple sidebar about the naiad, “worshiped” should be “worshipped.”
And oops again.


I really like the inspiration from the Rani Ki Vav stepwell, but your illustration doesnÂ’t really convey the scale or the beauty of the original. There may be only so much you can do in a one-page format, but I found the diagram a little confusing at first.
As you said, there's only so much I can do in a one page format. A good artist would be able to do better. I rely on the reference to allow a GM to provide adequate description. I also went with a deliberately smaller, simpler design and focused on providing a basic layout. This is a super-condensed version of a larger setting I have but that has several pages of maps and images alone.

Example of an artist doing it better: https://i.pinimg.com/originals/62/2c/f0/622cf0decab6cde307a0b56b86e4ae5f.jpg


Also, “for decades they prospered and then they died” raises the question of why they died, since the phrasing suggests they all died suddenly. Perhaps there was an interruption in the well that starved them of water, and left the naiad half-insane as a result?
I'm actually going to take that as a compliment of sorts. I pared this down to very basics and deliberately didn't answer questions like that to leave it open. I think it's cool that you seized on that and started making your own answers.

Thank you very much for the feedback and proofing.

animorte
2022-03-22, 10:52 PM
I also agree that the map initially was a bit confusing. I looked over it a few minutes and figured it out though.

Also, I've looked up the one page dungeons to use but I didn't know there was a contest, so thanks for that.

jjordan
2022-03-23, 11:33 AM
https://drive.google.com/file/d/10LDew6DNzVjrrMEPC1ug8BkpEVIzCQzR/view?usp=sharing
Final draft.

The writing on this could be tightened up a little more. There's still too much redundancy in it. I mention apsara, naiad, and water spirit too many times, for example. I might re-edit this before the July submission deadline, but I doubt it. Turning this into a short story by paring down the information presented has been a painful process. I want to add more details to better describe the temple and the exposed courtyards filled with dust that acts like quicksand and mention that the apsara will retreat into her well if all seems lost and flood the temple and that killing her will make the well run dry and talk about how she can upcast create water to manifest water in the lungs of enemies to drown them and harvest HP from the damage characters take if they are drowning in her well and describe the carved cliff face the stepwell descends under and add some loot from previous travellers that died here and describe the fact that this well made a lucrative desert trade route possible and when it was lost the trade route collapsed and detail the surrounding area which was essentially a truck stop (caravanserai) and is now just foundation shapes on the ground... But. Short story, not the novel of an adventure I originally wrote.

I've contented myself with using terms (apsara, caryatid, stepwell) to encourage the DM to research these points and provided the most crucial reference explicitly (Rani ki vav) as well as including an image of an apsara. I've referenced some generic D&D terms (naiad, caryatid, agility, strength, stealth) to provide references for the D&D DM to understand what creatures I'm suggesting and mechanics I think ought to be used with the environmental hazards and to suggest specific capabilities (lair actions). I've also kept the design as simple as possible. An axonometric view of the dungeon seems to provide the best reference in the most visually appealing form. It takes a minute or two to sort it out, but I think once the DM does that it becomes clear (particularly if they've looked up Rani ki vav) and you only need 3 or 4 simple battle-mat layouts (the well chamber, stairs, platform without columns, and platform with columns) to play this.

Having seen the quality of writing and artwork that other entrants typically produce I don't think this will win or place, but I'm shooting for a mention.

animorte
2022-03-23, 01:57 PM
While I really like the background image, could you perhaps make it a bit more transparent? The words over it are nice, but it's a difficult to read.

The really neat concept in that it's 3D instead of the typical top-down escalates this. It just needs more clear scaling.

Palanan
2022-03-23, 02:04 PM
First, I would strongly suggest removing the large image of the apsara. It makes the first six paragraphs almost impossible to read, and if the judges are going through a pile of submissions, this will make it all too easy for them to reject it.

If you really want to include it, I would suggest using a reduced version in the upper left and then flowing the text around it.



I’m also finding this diagram increasingly difficult to parse in terms of how I would run an encounter here. For instance, it’s very difficult to tell that there’s a walkway leading from the second landing to the former administrative area—at first I thought it was some Escher-esque third level protruding from between the first two.

It’s also not immediately clear which parts are open-air and which parts are beneath the surface rock. The heavy dark shading on the left-hand portion ends up obscuring a lot of detail, which means more potential for confusion and more time on the reader’s part trying to puzzle it out. You might want to try adding a texture that reads visually as a solid surface, so a prospective DM can have a better intuitive sense of how this is laid out.

If possible, I would suggest devoting the time to recreating the diagram by hand. As it stands, this is very confusing at first glance, and that may be off-putting both to the contest judges and prospective DMs. A hand-drawn version would be much more appealing visually, and the process might help you clarify some of these issues.

If you have until July, that’s plenty of time to rework your diagram. Right now it looks too modern and isn’t that evocative, which detracts from the mood you’re trying to create. For inspiration on style and technique, I would suggest heading over to Cartographers’ Guild (https://www.cartographersguild.com/forum.php) and take a look at some of their entries. You might even post this and ask for suggestions from the community there.

jjordan
2022-03-26, 04:34 PM
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1IjPZnjcbZARCSRxL7lchkTqoyGDrNOLm/view?usp=sharing

More conventional illustrations of the stepwell. It's extremely difficult to get all of these onto a single 8.5"x11" space, however.

Tanarii
2022-03-26, 06:10 PM
45 degree angle is quite steep for stairs. I know it's supposed to be system agnostic, but is that worth calling out a difficult terrain? That's a specific meaning in many systems, and may be something a GM can decide how it applies in others. Alternatively maybe "difficult to navigate in a fight".

Pauly
2022-03-26, 06:35 PM
I understand the formatting and space issues.

What isn’t clear to me is why would anyone go into/explore the temple? There is no interaction between the temple and the outside world as I read it.

I would suggest doing the page in mirror image of its current format. Native English speakers read left to right. The layout of the map forces the reader to read important information right to left. .i.e. put the entrance on the left side of the page and the well on the right hand side.

jjordan
2022-03-27, 02:29 PM
45 degree angle is quite steep for stairs. I know it's supposed to be system agnostic, but is that worth calling out a difficult terrain? That's a specific meaning in many systems, and may be something a GM can decide how it applies in others. Alternatively maybe "difficult to navigate in a fight".
I'd leave that up to the GM. In my expanded (not a single page) version of this I do make the stairs difficult terrain which only really comes into play if the players fight on the stairs or are fleeing from the apsara after she has decided to flood the temple.


What isn’t clear to me is why would anyone go into/explore the temple? There is no interaction between the temple and the outside world as I read it.

I would suggest doing the page in mirror image of its current format. Native English speakers read left to right. The layout of the map forces the reader to read important information right to left. .i.e. put the entrance on the left side of the page and the well on the right hand side.
I'm rebuilding the drawing in Sketchup. That will allow me to shift perspective and show some more details. The left to right orientation is a good point.

This scenario was condensed down heavily from two settings. The first setting is enormous, covered, stepwell oases in a very harsh desert. The apsara's are worshipped as gods and exercise significant power. The second setting is this abandoned, early stepwell which characters can encounter because they are re-opening a trade route. I can also use it as a random encounter in a desert setting. Or I can have the players traveling there because they're trying to retrace the route someone else took. Or they could be seeking knowledge the apsara has regarding a long-ago event. Providing a reason for the characters to visit the setting is really up to the DM. :)

Pauly
2022-03-27, 03:50 PM
Providing a reason for the characters to visit the setting is really up to the DM. :)

Something as simple as people know the well exists but can’t extract water gives a reason for adventurers to enter.
Another reason could be the aspara’s madness is increasingly tainting nearby wells and water that are close to her temple.

Now if the DM decides that for their campaign they will provide the party a different reason, that’s well and good. For a self contained dungeon though I think a reason to go in is desirable.