PDA

View Full Version : Things that don't make sense



Emperor Demonking
2007-11-24, 05:26 AM
What stuff don't make sense.
1) A paladin can't take an evil character to prison if it means associating with them.

Xefas
2007-11-24, 05:41 AM
2) The Monk class?

The_Blue_Sorceress
2007-11-24, 05:55 AM
3.) Alignment restrictions for the bard and barbarian

4.) The 3.5 Soulknife.

Rolaran
2007-11-24, 06:03 AM
5) The Hierophant.
6) Bardic Diplomancy.
7) Polymorph.
8) Polymorph!
9) POLYMORPH!!! (nonsensical enough for three spots all by itself)

OneWinged4ngel
2007-11-24, 06:21 AM
10) Making several brand new threads every day that amount to little more than idle conversation. :smallannoyed:

Athaniar
2007-11-24, 06:26 AM
11) Platypuses
12) Alignment

Armads
2007-11-24, 06:30 AM
13) Awakened Animals.


10) Making several brand new threads every day that amount to little more than idle conversation.

+1

Nebo_
2007-11-24, 07:45 AM
5) The Hierophant.
6) Bardic Diplomancy.
7) Polymorph.
8) Polymorph!
9) POLYMORPH!!! (nonsensical enough for three spots all by itself)

Polymorph makes perfect sense and is a fantastic idea for a spell. Unfortunately it was poorly executed and will probably never be properly balanced. There. You don't have to go turning every thread into a 'OMGWTF polymorph is b0rken' thread, there are enough of those already. Instead, lets make this a 'Why does Emperor Demonking see fit to post so many threads' thread. Seriously dude; too many threads.

Swordguy
2007-11-24, 07:46 AM
14) That people take pleasure in their ability to "break" a game system - to get it to do things it was clearly not meant to do, and then complain that the game clearly doesn't work because hey!, they can break it.

graymachine
2007-11-24, 07:50 AM
15)That, playing an assassin, I can't find a reasonably price poison that simply kills when ingested (ala so, so many real poisons.)

graymachine
2007-11-24, 07:55 AM
'Why does Emperor Demonking see fit to post so many threads' thread. Seriously dude; too many threads.

Well, you know, thread count determines his DR, or something like that. I read it in one of the Fiend Folios, I think.

Tempest Fennac
2007-11-24, 07:57 AM
16) The stat changes which are caused by old age (eg: a Barbarian who lived out in the wild while training ard for at least an hour everyday after retiring from adventuring probably wouldn't experience penalties to Str, Con and Dex, while a Wizard who spent all their time in libraries studying after retiring porbably wouldn't gain Cha).

Just out of curiosity, what's wrong with awakened animals? I'm guessing that the strongest poisons are so expensive because it would be too easy if there were cheap ones with a high DC which did Con damage.

UserClone
2007-11-24, 08:11 AM
16a) The STRANGEST thing about those stat changes is the increase in Wisdom, at least the way Wisdom is used in D&D. "Congratulations, you are 90 years old; you can both see and hear better than when you were 20." Please!

graymachine
2007-11-24, 08:16 AM
16) I'm guessing that the strongest poisons are so expensive because it would be too easy if there were cheap ones with a high DC which did Con damage.

I don't have a problem with poisons being expensive; what I have a problem with is that they are absurdly weak compared to their cost. Being a poisoner in 3.5 is crazy-expensive and you are almost always guaranteeing the target an ridiculously easy Fort. save, given the level you need to be to reasonably afford said poison.
The counterargument is that PCs could die from the DM having reasonably effective poisons. I say, screw'em! The cleric and wizard classes are awash with magics to detect and deal with poison. No one ever bothers, though, because poison isn't as dangerous as cooking a handful of kobolds with a fireball.

Tempest Fennac
2007-11-24, 08:23 AM
16b) I know what you mean about Wis making the least sense (it's a shame that ot doesn't work like that in real life).

Kiero
2007-11-24, 08:23 AM
Level-escalating hit points. Which both are and aren't measures of physical robustness only, yet are only restored by healing magic and natural healing time.

UserClone
2007-11-24, 08:32 AM
I don't have a problem with poisons being expensive; what I have a problem with is that they are absurdly weak compared to their cost. Being a poisoner in 3.5 is crazy-expensive and you are almost always guaranteeing the target an ridiculously easy Fort. save, given the level you need to be to reasonably afford said poison.
The counterargument is that PCs could die from the DM having reasonably effective poisons. I say, screw'em! The cleric and wizard classes are awash with magics to detect and deal with poison. No one ever bothers, though, because poison isn't as dangerous as cooking a handful of kobolds with a fireball.
Enter the Dragon#312 PrC "The Poisoner." (Tee-hee, enter the dragon!) Anyways, it's a five-level PrC which gives you the ability to poison people, badly, with a touch. Good DCs, too, IIRC. Plus that gives you the Ability Focus and Virulent Poison feats to play around with.

rickvoid
2007-11-24, 08:51 AM
16a) The STRANGEST thing about those stat changes is the increase in Wisdom, at least the way Wisdom is used in D&D. "Congratulations, you are 90 years old; you can both see and hear better than when you were 20." Please!

Spot is used to see if you notice things, and is really more of a situtational awareness thing than a vision thing. And since situational awareness is pattern recognition, it makes sense (to me at least) for wis to be the governing stat.

Listen, however, really should be con based.

Tempest Fennac
2007-11-24, 08:54 AM
Why do you think Listen should be Con based? (I'm guessing it's because on Concentration, but I'm curious about if there are any other reasons).

kemmotar
2007-11-24, 09:15 AM
I don't have a problem with poisons being expensive; what I have a problem with is that they are absurdly weak compared to their cost. Being a poisoner in 3.5 is crazy-expensive and you are almost always guaranteeing the target an ridiculously easy Fort. save, given the level you need to be to reasonably afford said poison.
The counterargument is that PCs could die from the DM having reasonably effective poisons. I say, screw'em! The cleric and wizard classes are awash with magics to detect and deal with poison. No one ever bothers, though, because poison isn't as dangerous as cooking a handful of kobolds with a fireball.

Actually there is a kind of drug in BoED that can work as a poison very well...I don't remember the name now but apparently you make tea of it and inhale the fumes. Should you inhale twice within the same hour you get a fort save to lose con. Also drinking the tea spells almost immediate death...hence, disguise into a maid and serve the target tea (be sure to wear something so you don't inhale the fumes before though:smalltongue: )

Rigon
2007-11-24, 09:24 AM
as far as i can think spot and listen checks should be dex based as hide and move silently are also based on dex.
but i would give it a possible penalty based the interval between events and the keep on focus willpower (thus wisdom).
ex.: nightshift guard on duty. hours pass without anything happening... so the guard will be most likely sleeping or playing some games with his pal... the other guard. thus he isn't paying attention to the things happening around him and he can't hear the party sneaking in. OR he is a "good" guard... with a real sense of duty and bla-bla so he pays attention and alarms the whole castle.
now that we're at it, how about giving hide and move silently a charisma based penalty? a guy with high charisma can't hide imho. that pink hat with the silver strips kinda ruin his cover.

Xefas
2007-11-24, 09:25 AM
(be sure to wear something so you don't inhale the fumes before though:smalltongue: )

Oh yeah, that won't look suspicious at all. You know those NPC classes, they might even fail their spot check to notice your new gasmask.

*coo chsshhhh* *coo chsshhhh* *coo chsshhhh* "Here is your tea, sir."

warmachine
2007-11-24, 09:26 AM
17. That there are monsters and people ranging from squishy to genocide-with-a-flick-of-the-wrist powerful yet heroes rarely meet monsters and adversaries who aren't too weak or too powerful. Even when there are non-sentient creatures who see humanoids as food and have no way of sensing they're outmatched by the heroes. When a too-powerful BBEG, especially spellcasters, learns of heroes causing trouble, he doesn't wipe them out them personally.

Umm... Which perspective to make sense are we talking about again?

warmachine
2007-11-24, 09:33 AM
18. In AD&D, no matter the level of aggression advocated by their god, each and every Cleric learnt to wear heavy armour and use a variety of weapons.

kemmotar
2007-11-24, 09:33 AM
Oh yeah, that won't look suspicious at all. You know those NPC classes, they might even fail their spot check to notice your new gasmask.

*coo chsshhhh* *coo chsshhhh* *coo chsshhhh* "Here is your tea, sir."

actually you only need to not inhale it at the time you brew it...and you only need some kind of cloth(preferably magical) just at the time you brew it. So no fears of inhaling it when you serve it...so no darth vader serving tee:smalltongue:

warmachine
2007-11-24, 09:44 AM
19. In a world awash with magic that is widely known to exist and where literacy is common, no scribe (in game) has compiled a text book of known spells and their effects. Yet all heroes know the limitations of, say, Invisibility and the spells that can counter it.

SoD
2007-11-24, 09:50 AM
20 Why a rogue can be lawful, but a bard can't.

Tempest Fennac
2007-11-24, 10:25 AM
I know what you mean about Bards and Rogues (I know that 1st Edition Thieves were barred from being LG, but they could be LN for some reason). Shouldn't a Spellcraft check be needed for the characters to know how to counter Invisibility?

Rad
2007-11-24, 10:35 AM
Why do you think Listen should be Con based? (I'm guessing it's because on Concentration, but I'm curious about if there are any other reasons).

Because it makes sense of having your senses based on your health rather than on your wisdom.
Actually, many systems use perception as an independent attribute, and rightly so.

prufock
2007-11-24, 10:51 AM
11) Platypuses
12) Alignment

Dude, what have you got against platypuses?

Tempest Fennac
2007-11-24, 11:03 AM
Thanks for explaining, Rad (I think the problem with Wis and Cha is that they both cover a lot of unrelated things). I think there was a 2nd Edition rule where the stats could be divided up into 2 different stats in order to allow a 1or 2 point difference between 2 different areas (eg: Cha could be divided into apperance and leadership, so if you had a Cha of 16, you could have an apperance of 14 and leadership of 18). While this system is slightly more complicated, it is a bit more realistic.

Eldmor
2007-11-24, 01:41 PM
21) People not reading the rule about PP usage in psionics and then going to complain about their ability to "nova."

I don't have a problem with poisons being expensive; what I have a problem with is that they are absurdly weak compared to their cost. Being a poisoner in 3.5 is crazy-expensive and you are almost always guaranteeing the target an ridiculously easy Fort. save, given the level you need to be to reasonably afford said poison.
The counterargument is that PCs could die from the DM having reasonably effective poisons. I say, screw'em! The cleric and wizard classes are awash with magics to detect and deal with poison. No one ever bothers, though, because poison isn't as dangerous as cooking a handful of kobolds with a fireball.
Having the right resources, you can make poisons cheap.
ex: Be a third level Shadowdancer and make Shadow Essence Poison at 1/6th cost. 42gp, rounded, for crafting a DC17 Injury with 1STRdrain and 2d6STR secondary is pretty nifty.

herrhauptmann
2007-11-24, 01:46 PM
Why does Emperor Demonking see fit to post so many threads'.

He's trying to make a new set of blankets. The higher the thread count the softer and smoother the sheets on your skin.
It's all a comfort issue.

Yeah I liked 2nd Ed with charisma being your personality, but having a second attribute to detail your looks. Got annoying having my character be 'hideously ugly' because I gave my monk 9 charisma.

The Extinguisher
2007-11-24, 01:52 PM
22) Half-something races and templates.

Not even counting everything that's wrong with it in pure biological terms (if they're of a different species, they should be able to have have sterile kids) It just doesn't make logisitic sense. Do humans have the instinct to do everything with a pulse.

Half-elves, Half-dragons, Half-elementals, Half-zombies.
What the hell?

Jannex
2007-11-24, 01:58 PM
Level-based advancement.

Tempest Fennac
2007-11-24, 01:59 PM
I've never heard about half-zombies, but the dragons are typically assuming a humanoid form when Half-Dragons are concieved (thankfully). I think the problem with levels is that the alternatives could end up being over-complicated (unless you just had to spend XPs on getting new feats, spell levels, HDs, etc., but that could still be awkward).

Tengu
2007-11-24, 02:00 PM
24. The popularity of DND, when many better balanced and more interesting systems are around.

Jannex
2007-11-24, 02:06 PM
I think the problem with levels is that the alternatives could end up being over-complicated (unless you just had to spend XPs on getting new feats, spell levels, HDs, etc., but that could still be awkward).

I've actually played with a variant that did this. It needed some polishing and some adjustment of the XP costs, but I really liked it.

After all, it's not as though there aren't any number of other games out there that use XP costs for individual traits. In my estimation, it's a far preferable way of doing things.

Jack_Simth
2007-11-24, 02:07 PM
15)That, playing an assassin, I can't find a reasonably price poison that simply kills when ingested (ala so, so many real poisons.)
Try potions of such things as Inflict Serious Wounds. 3d8+5 (Will half) will kill all commoner-1's, and most other low-level characters, too.

Or Fireball. That one's always funny. Even a lowly Shocking Grasp or Scorching Ray will be very effective.

CockroachTeaParty
2007-11-24, 02:16 PM
Level-escalating hit points. Which both are and aren't measures of physical robustness only, yet are only restored by healing magic and natural healing time.

The Tome of Battle takes a new approach to this. Several White Raven maneuvers heal HP, described usually as 'boosting moral' or 'inspiring your allies to ignore the worst of their wounds.' So HP can be restored by a few slightly different means, if a few splatbooks are tossed into the fray.

Solo
2007-11-24, 02:29 PM
Given the amount of threads you put out, EDK, you could stand to throw your games a bone once in awhile...

Shas aia Toriia
2007-11-24, 02:34 PM
So. . . many. . .threads. . .

Kurald Galain
2007-11-24, 02:36 PM
25. Alignment
26. Encumbrance rules
27. Sling damage
28. Alignment
29. Several of the classes outside the PHB
30. Several prestige classes that are based on rules rather than flavor
31. Monks
32. Perennial threads in this forum defending monks
33. Perennial threads in this forum defending alignment
34. Perennial threads in this forum defending perennial threads in this forum
35. This thread
36. This post

Fuum Bango
2007-11-24, 02:39 PM
Ah chu. :smallsigh:

The_Werebear
2007-11-24, 02:57 PM
37) Prices
38) Epic Spellcasting
39) The d20 itself.
-My group has been experimenting with other "main" dice sets to see how they work. The one we favor most so far is 2d10, as with 3d6 you can't do **** if you are below average, and we find the d20, with equal chance of flop and critical, is simply annoying.
40) Seconded on Sling Damage.

Fhaolan
2007-11-24, 03:23 PM
22) Half-something races and templates.

Not even counting everything that's wrong with it in pure biological terms (if they're of a different species, they should be able to have have sterile kids) It just doesn't make logisitic sense. Do humans have the instinct to do everything with a pulse.

Half-elves, Half-dragons, Half-elementals, Half-zombies.
What the hell?

Have you actually seen some of the stuff on the internet? :smallbiggrin: Given that humans do indeed seem to 'do' everything with a pulse in RL (and many things without pulses), the jump to having fantasy versions of humans with the same... drive... is not even a stretch.

As for having viable offspring... it's well established in myth that everytime a human attempts to breed with an animal or other non-human creature, it turns out to be a spirit, a demon, or god in disguise, and the resulting offspring will be a half-human, half-whatever the disguise was, with just a touch of something else for that extra oomph. :smallsmile:

Of course, that resulting whatever is usually the enemy of the hero of the story, but that's picking nits. :smallamused:

bugsysservant
2007-11-24, 03:36 PM
Have you actually seen some of the stuff on the internet? :smallbiggrin: Given that humans do indeed seem to 'do' everything with a pulse in RL (and many things without pulses), the jump to having fantasy versions of humans with the same... drive... is not even a stretch.

Yeah, but on the plus side, people who publish that kind of stuff tend not to reproduce. So while possible, half races should certainly be very rare.

41. The custom item creation guide in the DMG
42. People who think the guide is 100% RAW
43. People who get really angry when people suggest custom items in theoretical versus threads which revolve around breaking the game.

de-trick
2007-11-24, 03:38 PM
44)Chewbacca living on Endor, when wookies live on Kashyyyk, It doesn't make sense
45)why almost every person wants a optimized build not flavor

warmachine
2007-11-24, 04:28 PM
46. That Radiant Servant of Pelor wasn't nerfed after casual inspection, let alone playtesting.

warmachine
2007-11-24, 04:36 PM
47. Dinosaurs in the Monster Manual, which don't fit the fantasy genre.

Doresain
2007-11-24, 05:32 PM
Enter the Dragon#312 PrC "The Poisoner." (Tee-hee, enter the dragon!) Anyways, it's a five-level PrC which gives you the ability to poison people, badly, with a touch. Good DCs, too, IIRC. Plus that gives you the Ability Focus and Virulent Poison feats to play around with.

if i remember correctly, it had 10 levels...i could be mistaken though

Roland St. Jude
2007-11-24, 05:44 PM
Sheriff of Moddingham: We have a Silly Message Board Games section for this kind of fun.