New Book Announced

[Sparky McDibben]

New book dropped:

https://www.wargamer.com/dnd/journeys-through-the-radiant-citadel-release-date

[Monster Manuel]

So, it looks like the new book is a Candlekeep/Yawning Portal- style anthology adventure book, centered around a Sigil-like multiversal city in the Ethereal plane? Gotta' be honest, I'm a little underwhelmed....

One of the things I liked about the Saltmarsh book was the ship rules (they were clunky, but I appreciated the fact that they were added as part of the book). I'm making an assumption that some of the spelljammer-aligned teases we've seen might come into this book in a similar way. Like, Appendix A might be a section describing how the "spelljammer" ship described in one of the adventures works. If that's the case, I worry that it makes it less likely that we get a full setting devoted to it, and I'd rather have that setting, and not a footnote in an adventure book.

[TrueAlphaGamer]

Another adventure anthology, I guess that this time it's in 'not-Sigil' . . .

:smallsigh:

My disappointment is immeasurable.

[JackPhoenix]

My poor eyes. That cover art is horrible.

[Joe the Rat]

I'm a little surprised they didn't mine Sigil IP, but as this feels more multiple Primes than jaunting through the Outer Planes, if it was Sigil it would feel underwhelming and underserved. Plus, the focus on a safe harbor hub rather than a setting in its own right with backstabbings and infighting abound would make it an odd fit.

In terms of content, this is the kind of thing I use most. I have thus far, cover to cover, run one* entire campaign, and even that was shoehorned into my own setting. I get a lot more mileage out of the anthologies as I can cut and paste and mix and match freely. Hell, I'm using Mad Mage levels as cut-and-paste right now. Not having to strip uberplot from the setup is nice.


* Dragon Heist, though I have promised to do Strixhaven and Witchlight at some point.

[loki_ragnarock]

Whelp, this announcement missed me. Cover art has also missed me. It's like what I imagine the world looks like to a mantis shrimp.

I'm sure there's a vast, long unsatisfied market for D&D set in the Southeastern US. I'm pretty sure I'm not part of it, though.

I'm more in the "they're never going to revisit Planescape if they keep sucking the conceptual oxygen from it" market.

[Sparky McDibben]

Yeah, my thoughts were, "Why Diet Sigil and not, y'know, actual Sigil?"

Also, this feels a bit like WotC trying to cash in on successful projects like Uncaged and Unbreakable, but if they handle it well, it will be a HUGE win for the community.

Cover art is meh, but then I'm not one who cares about art. I'm more interested in seeing how many of the adventures run well and can be easily copy-pasted into my world.

[Yakmala]

I've enjoyed running the various Candlekeep Mystery and Yawning Portal adventures at my local game shop so I can always use another good collection of adventures with a cool theme.

That being said, I would have preferred actual Sigil to "Sigil but not Sigil".

[TaiLiu]

I quite like the alternative cover art, actually! Never been a huge fan of the "default" 5e art style.

Hoping the higher level adventures will be good. I don't think I've seen a tier 3+ adventure that takes into account the qualitative differences. They just feel like upscaled lower-level adventures.

[Salmon343]

This looks pretty good! Reckon I'll run some of these when it comes out. Lore will be great for doing a planar based campaign post 5.5 too...

[Waterdeep Merch]

"Written in Blood" and "Shadow of the Sun" sound like the kinds of things I like running and playing. "Salted Legacy" is very much the sort of thing I detest running and playing, though I know there's fans of that kind of high comedy/whimsy. The Radiant Citadel itself replacing a beloved and intricate D&D locale with a bad knock off from Mass Effect feels like bad homebrew. Cover art's not my jam but I can live with it.

Too much of a mixed bag to preorder it, but I suppose good word of mouth after release could convince me to take a look. Kind of wish I could just buy individual adventures instead of the whole book in situations like these. I've felt that way since Yawning Portal, and I still do. There ends up too much stuff I'll never use to justify the price point.

[KorvinStarmast]

Cover art has also missed me. The alternate cover art makes me gag. I can live with the regular one.

I'm sure there's a vast, long unsatisfied market for D&D set in the Southeastern US. I'm pretty sure I'm not part of it, though. Buncha one shots, like Candlekeep Mysteries. Probably usable.

I'm more in the "they're never going to revisit Planescape if they keep sucking the conceptual oxygen from it" market.
Yes. :smallfrown:

Yeah, my thoughts were, "Why Diet Sigil and not, y'know, actual Sigil?" Why the heck is this set in the Ethereal Plane?

[Sparky McDibben]

Why the heck is this set in the Ethereal Plane?

Because the adventures lack substance!

:smallbiggrin:

[KorvinStarmast]

Because the adventures lack substance!

:smallbiggrin: OK, you get one free beer the next time we meet. :smallsmile:

[ZRN]

Yeah, my thoughts were, "Why Diet Sigil and not, y'know, actual Sigil?"


Why would they use Sigil for this? If the idea is to make a culturally authentic, say, Southern Gothic or Persian-themed adventure, how and why would you want to tie that into the trappings of Planescape?

[Sparky McDibben]

Why would they use Sigil for this? If the idea is to make a culturally authentic, say, Southern Gothic or Persian-themed adventure, how and why would you want to tie that into the trappings of Planescape?

It doesn't look like they're putting that into the Radiant Citadel, either, though. It looks like those adventures are linked through all the doors surrounding it, which could have been easily accommodated through the exact same method in Sigil.

[Waterdeep Merch]

Why would they use Sigil for this? If the idea is to make a culturally authentic, say, Southern Gothic or Persian-themed adventure, how and why would you want to tie that into the trappings of Planescape?

It's already culturally distinct, in that it's deliberately not those things either. It's just a magical city of happy multicultural people that all get along in fantasy outer space. That sounds dismissive, but it's legitimately what they were going for and why they couldn't use Sigil- Sigil is dangerous, and they wanted a place that was completely danger-free. Really, the only comparison is that they're both extraplanar and have doors leading to other places. Otherwise, Radiant Citadel is much closer to being the Citadel from Mass Effect, except without the political intrigue (and presumably the dark truth at it's center).

Which also means it's adventure-free and completely boring as far as I'm concerned, but I don't doubt that there's people that would prefer a place where nothing bad ever happens in their games. It just doesn't suit my purposes.

[Sigreid]

The cover does not appeal to me and reading the description makes it sound like it's going to be a politics first dumpster fire.

[Luccan]

I appreciate the adventure books that just give you individual quests instead of big narratives. Makes it easier to pluck stuff out of. And new monsters are always a fun way to spice up the game. I will say I think the pitch for these adventures is off as they seem a little narrative-forward, which can create issues for the DM is players go off script. But I think the quality remains to be seen until the book is actually published. Also, I'm fine with the cover. I don't think most D&D covers grab me, but while the color pallet is a little bright, it's definitely unique to the default covers of 5e adventures I can remember.

Edit: I will say, I don't see why the city needs to be extraplanar. Official settings are pretty eclectic as is and a multicultural hub actually makes way more sense on a physical plane than hidden in the Ethereal. I really think that's just for the multiverse thing, which is the current zeitgeist and so WotC is going to be bringing it into a lot of projects now.

[Sparky McDibben]

I quite like the alternative cover art, actually! Never been a huge fan of the "default" 5e art style.

Hoping the higher level adventures will be good. I don't think I've seen a tier 3+ adventure that takes into account the qualitative differences. They just feel like upscaled lower-level adventures.

Zomg, this is 100% a MOOD.

[Dr.Samurai]

New book dropped:

https://www.wargamer.com/dnd/journeys-through-the-radiant-citadel-release-date
Wow.

The cover art just hits you and ruins your eyes, and after you've adjusted to the colors and wiped the blood away from your ducts you go on to read the article and it just gets worse and worse until you're actually just tearing your eyes out of your own volition.

I am happy for all five of the people that needed this book that WotC took the time and resources to create it. Please do enjoy :smallamused:.

[Millstone85]

Cover art has also missed me. It's like what I imagine the world looks like to a mantis shrimp.The cover art in the linked article is very saturated, compared to what is found on the official website.

https://www.wargamer.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/DnD-journeys-through-the-radiant-citadel-release-date-wingling-over-market-cover-art-900x506.jpg
https://images.ctfassets.net/swt2dsco9mfe/4CZ8yRFeYU8NAvWrg2kPK0/c18ee4171bdf794ff304ca377926cd10/1280x960-zodiac.jpg

[loki_ragnarock]

The cover art in the linked article is very saturated, compared to what is found on the official website.

https://www.wargamer.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/DnD-journeys-through-the-radiant-citadel-release-date-wingling-over-market-cover-art-900x506.jpg
https://images.ctfassets.net/swt2dsco9mfe/4CZ8yRFeYU8NAvWrg2kPK0/c18ee4171bdf794ff304ca377926cd10/1280x960-zodiac.jpg

That second image is so much easier to look at. Thanks for the side by side.

[Dr.Samurai]

Wow that makes a huge difference.

[Amnestic]

The cover does not appeal to me and reading the description makes it sound like it's going to be a politics first dumpster fire.

When people use Medieval Europe for inspiration it's 'classical fantasy'.
When people use any other thing for inspiration it's 'political'.

The three adventure blurbs seem neat enough, hope the rest are good and executed well. Always happy to have another book to steal from.

[Sigreid]

When people use Medieval Europe for inspiration it's 'classical fantasy'.
When people use any other thing for inspiration it's 'political'.

The three adventure blurbs seem neat enough, hope the rest are good and executed well. Always happy to have another book to steal from.

Nope. If they'd said something like "We wanted to bring in fresh stories based on Indian culture, narratives and mythology and found a talented team raised in that culture to do it!" That would strike me as awesome. But that's not what they did.

[Willowhelm]

Nope. If they'd said something like "We wanted to bring in fresh stories based on Indian culture, narratives and mythology and found a talented team raised in that culture to do it!" That would strike me as awesome. But that's not what they did.

Who is “they”? Where would they “say” this? I’m assuming you’d also want “them” to actually do what they said too, not just say it?

If so… the article doesn’t really seem relevant at all to your issue as they definitely aren’t the “they” that would say that or have the power to make it happen. So… what are you basing this on exactly?

[Jophiel]

When people use Medieval Europe for inspiration it's 'classical fantasy'.
When people use any other thing for inspiration it's 'political'.
I'd be happy with a book based on mythology/folklore/adventure from other cultures. I own 3rd party sourcebooks for just that sort of thing. But this book -- based on the article's descriptions of the stories -- feels more like "This is about the modern experiences of [group]" and a "message first" emphasis which isn't what I play 5e for (and, if I want to experience them via RPG, I'll pick one better suited than 5e). I'm sure it's great for someone and I don't begrudge its existence but I can't get excited about buying it either.

[Kane0]

Sure, ill pick up another Yawning Portal/Saltmarsh/Candlekeep. Might go for the alternate cover this time though.

[Sigreid]

Who is “they”? Where would they “say” this? I’m assuming you’d also want “them” to actually do what they said too, not just say it?

If so… the article doesn’t really seem relevant at all to your issue as they definitely aren’t the “they” that would say that or have the power to make it happen. So… what are you basing this on exactly?
The article spent a lot of space making sure you knew the team was PoC, brown people and black people instead of talking about the awesomeness of the content. That was my point. At the end of the day you are correct if you assume I dont care who made it. I care that it's awesome. And while I'm not an expert, I do know enough about the folklore of India to know that it's very rich group d for adventures.

[Willowhelm]

The article spent a lot of space making sure you knew the team was PoC, brown people and black people instead of talking about the awesomeness of the content. That was my point. At the end of the day you are correct if you assume I dont care who made it. I care that it's awesome. And while I'm not an expert, I do know enough about the folklore of India to know that it's very rich group d for adventures.

I agree on the article. I just wouldn’t judge the content based on that article and I wondered if you had some other sources.

[Luccan]

The cover art in the linked article is very saturated, compared to what is found on the official website.

https://www.wargamer.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/DnD-journeys-through-the-radiant-citadel-release-date-wingling-over-market-cover-art-900x506.jpg
https://images.ctfassets.net/swt2dsco9mfe/4CZ8yRFeYU8NAvWrg2kPK0/c18ee4171bdf794ff304ca377926cd10/1280x960-zodiac.jpg

Oh, that's way better. Still colorful, but not so much contrast it's hard to look at

[Sigreid]

I agree on the article. I just wouldn’t judge the content based on that article and I wondered if you had some other sources.

No, I was judging what the article considered important based on its content. This is the first I've heard of the book, and the opening gambit didnt scream to me "buy this book because it's awesome!"

[Sparky McDibben]

I'd be happy with a book based on mythology/folklore/adventure from other cultures. I own 3rd party sourcebooks for just that sort of thing. But this book -- based on the article's descriptions of the stories -- feels more like "This is about the modern experiences of [group]" and a "message first" emphasis which isn't what I play 5e for (and, if I want to experience them via RPG, I'll pick one better suited than 5e). I'm sure it's great for someone and I don't begrudge its existence but I can't get excited about buying it either.


The article spent a lot of space making sure you knew the team was PoC, brown people and black people instead of talking about the awesomeness of the content. That was my point. At the end of the day you are correct if you assume I dont care who made it. I care that it's awesome. [snip]

If the mods are OK with it, I'd like to address this view, because it was my knee-jerk reaction as well. (Mods, if anything below crosses a line, please moderate away. :) )

There has been a recent trend in D&D to broaden the fan base by being conscientiously inclusive of other playstyles, backgrounds, and experiences. I think the first time I noticed it was really in Strixhaven, which I was genuinely puzzled by. It didn't seem like a good D&D product, until I realized I was looking at it through the wrong lens: it wasn't a D&D product that was meant for me. It was meant for folks who wanted low-stakes, high-whimsy magical school shenanigans. So of course it seemed like garbage to me; that was OK, because it was bringing in other players who might be able to broaden the player base, create new products, and join the family (as it were). The first time I read it, I was freaking mad - I spent $50 on this dreck? What the hell, WotC? It wasn't until I realized the angle the book was sold on that I realized what use I might get out of it.

I think this book is coming at a similar angle. And my knee-jerk reaction was similar, "Oh great. WotC trading on the ethnic makeup of the writing team? That's going to go great." But having thought about it some more, and interrogated that reaction, I think that's coming from a flawed understanding of the world (specifically, a zero-sum game where in order for me to win, someone else has to lose). I'm working on that, but in the meantime, I'm going to argue why I think this book is actually great for the hobby. This book is very much targeted at minority experiences (in the US, at least). There are a lot of those folks in the US, and, while I don't have hard data to back this up, I suspect that they are statistically underrepresented in the current player base.

By reaching out, and bringing those folks in, WotC is inviting thousands of new perspectives. They're telling those folks that they have a home here. And that home is freaking cool. And some of those folks are going to stick in this community. They're going to make terrifying monsters, write amazing adventures leveraging experiences only a couple of us have ever lived through, and create some positively sick sub/classes for our game. Will there be some dreck in there? Sure. But there's dreck now. I don't remember the Book of Erotic Fantasy as a great adventure; I remember it as the price I had to pay to get 75% off Forge of Fury. So even if Journeys to the Radiant Citadel is complete and utter garbage, it's still worth the effort from us as a community to give it a shot. That doesn't mean buy it straight out the gate, or even play it as written, but let's keep open minds and hearts about newbies, and help them find their footing in our wacky hobby.

Then we can hit 'em with disintegrate.

[MarkVIIIMarc]

The article spent a lot of space making sure you knew the team was PoC, brown people and black people instead of talking about the awesomeness of the content. That was my point. At the end of the day you are correct if you assume I dont care who made it. I care that it's awesome. And while I'm not an expert, I do know enough about the folklore of India to know that it's very rich group d for adventures.

Gotta remember corporations have lives. Maybe this is a first for WOTC or a bigger deal there than we realize.

We have also played though TOTYP so I look forward to another book of that style.

[Jophiel]

There has been a recent trend in D&D to broaden the fan base by being conscientiously inclusive of other playstyles, backgrounds, and experiences. I think the first time I noticed it was really in Strixhaven, which I was genuinely puzzled by. It didn't seem like a good D&D product, until I realized I was looking at it through the wrong lens: it wasn't a D&D product that was meant for me.
This is all I'm saying. I don't mind that the book exists. I'm not even vaguely upset that "OMG, WOTC wasted months on this and not..." because I already own a ton of books so I'll survive waiting for the next one. I'm just saying that it's not a book for me. What it's trying to do (from what I suss from the article) isn't what I play 5e to do and wouldn't pick 5e as the vehicle to do it. But if other people get something great out of it, that's cool. Authors worked hard on it so I hope that reaps some rewards for someone. I personally won't be dropping $50 on it and likely won't buy it at all unless I somehow find it on a very deep sale.

[Sigreid]

If the mods are OK with it, I'd like to address this view, because it was my knee-jerk reaction as well. (Mods, if anything below crosses a line, please moderate away. :) )

There has been a recent trend in D&D to broaden the fan base by being conscientiously inclusive of other playstyles, backgrounds, and experiences. I think the first time I noticed it was really in Strixhaven, which I was genuinely puzzled by. It didn't seem like a good D&D product, until I realized I was looking at it through the wrong lens: it wasn't a D&D product that was meant for me. It was meant for folks who wanted low-stakes, high-whimsy magical school shenanigans. So of course it seemed like garbage to me; that was OK, because it was bringing in other players who might be able to broaden the player base, create new products, and join the family (as it were). The first time I read it, I was freaking mad - I spent $50 on this dreck? What the hell, WotC? It wasn't until I realized the angle the book was sold on that I realized what use I might get out of it.

I think this book is coming at a similar angle. And my knee-jerk reaction was similar, "Oh great. WotC trading on the ethnic makeup of the writing team? That's going to go great." But having thought about it some more, and interrogated that reaction, I think that's coming from a flawed understanding of the world (specifically, a zero-sum game where in order for me to win, someone else has to lose). I'm working on that, but in the meantime, I'm going to argue why I think this book is actually great for the hobby. This book is very much targeted at minority experiences (in the US, at least). There are a lot of those folks in the US, and, while I don't have hard data to back this up, I suspect that they are statistically underrepresented in the current player base.

By reaching out, and bringing those folks in, WotC is inviting thousands of new perspectives. They're telling those folks that they have a home here. And that home is freaking cool. And some of those folks are going to stick in this community. They're going to make terrifying monsters, write amazing adventures leveraging experiences only a couple of us have ever lived through, and create some positively sick sub/classes for our game. Will there be some dreck in there? Sure. But there's dreck now. I don't remember the Book of Erotic Fantasy as a great adventure; I remember it as the price I had to pay to get 75% off Forge of Fury. So even if Journeys to the Radiant Citadel is complete and utter garbage, it's still worth the effort from us as a community to give it a shot. That doesn't mean buy it straight out the gate, or even play it as written, but let's keep open minds and hearts about newbies, and help them find their footing in our wacky hobby.

Then we can hit 'em with disintegrate.

Fair enough. I only evaluate material based on whether it appeals to me. And to me this looks like hot garbage so far. I don't care for the art style, but TBH, I haven't really liked the D&D art style since 1e. But art won't make me buy or not buy a book.

Beyond that, regardless of the content of the book itself; what they chose to emphasize in the article sent me the message that they were more interested in an ideological signal than quality of content anyway.

[Willowhelm]

Fair enough. I only evaluate material based on whether it appeals to me. And to me this looks like hot garbage so far. I don't care for the art style, but TBH, I haven't really liked the D&D art style since 1e. But art won't make me buy or not buy a book.

Beyond that, regardless of the content of the book itself; what they chose to emphasize in the article sent me the message that they were more interested in an ideological signal than quality of content anyway.

Again with the “they”. This is one article written by a staff writer at wargamer.com. What they decide to write about might signal plenty about their views and be worthy of critique but are you really basing “looks like hot garbage” based off this one article?! Who cares what the reviewer things is interesting/important?!

[TaiLiu]

Zomg, this is 100% a MOOD.
Glad to share sentiments with a like mind! :smallsmile:

[Sigreid]

Again with the “they”. This is one article written by a staff writer at wargamer.com. What they decide to write about might signal plenty about their views and be worthy of critique but are you really basing “looks like hot garbage” based off this one article?! Who cares what the reviewer things is interesting/important?!

In this case it would be the article writer and the team that they interviewed.

[Gyro89]

Multiverse, how I've grown to hate that word.
It was cute at first, but now everyone and their mom are making their own multiverses and it just feels like they're just trying to sell me more stuff.

[ZRN]

It's already culturally distinct, in that it's deliberately not those things either. It's just a magical city of happy multicultural people that all get along in fantasy outer space. That sounds dismissive, but it's legitimately what they were going for and why they couldn't use Sigil- Sigil is dangerous, and they wanted a place that was completely danger-free. Really, the only comparison is that they're both extraplanar and have doors leading to other places. Otherwise, Radiant Citadel is much closer to being the Citadel from Mass Effect, except without the political intrigue (and presumably the dark truth at it's center).


Yeah, this sounds accurate to what the article's saying. Each of the adventure writers is thus freer to write their own pocket adventures without worrying about tying it into the Blood Wars and the Lady of Pain and whatever else is going on in Sigil.

As for "completely danger-free," I mean, we haven't seen the book; the Radiant Citadel could well have dangers, plot hooks, NPCs, etc.

[Joe the Rat]

Yeah, color saturation is not always a good thing.


Why the Ethereal? because there is nothing Outside about this set - it's all alternate Primes. They could have used the World Serpent Inn for this, but it seems like they wanted something a little more, er, bazaar.



<<Thinking serious thoughts>>

This why my radar pinged Coyote and Crow and Wagadu Chronicles when they rolled through the Kick-Go-Sphere. I love a deep dive into different cultural foundations for settings - but it really needs to be done by someone who cares, and knows what they're doing. This is D&D Corporate taking a stab at it. And yes, having people outside of the Art Department that don't all look like me (with more hair) is not a bad thing.

[Amechra]

This is D&D Corporate taking a stab at it.

I legitimately hope that this is WotC clumsily trying to improve their wicked ways, and not Disney-style virtue signalling (while being anything but virtuous behind the screen).

[KorvinStarmast]

Multiverse, how I've grown to hate that word.
It was cute at first, but now everyone and their mom are making their own multiverses and it just feels like they're just trying to sell me more stuff. +1

not Disney-style virtue signaling Well, it probably is but someone further up mentioned the corporate culture thing. Those don't change overnight.

[Amechra]

Well, it probably is but someone further up mentioned the corporate culture thing. Those don't change overnight.

Let's just say that there's a very specific reason why I'm pointing fingers at Disney here...

[Catullus64]

*Exaggerated sigh* Guys, this is a very small snippet of (third-party) coverage on which to judge the book. Temper your certainty that this is going to be the worst manifestation of insert-whatever-trend-you-think-is-destroying-WotC-from-within.

The cover art is a little bit much, but you know what? Most of the 5e books have pretty lackluster cover art. Looking at you, monochrome-red PHB. For what it's worth I like the default better than the variant cover.

Also... can we have a little less presumption of bad faith? When people make statements saying how they're excited to work with an ethnically and gender diverse team, and believe that they've made a better product because of it, could we please not immediately assume that they're mouthing empty words to score political points? Cynicism is not something the world needs more of right now.

The new adventures look cool. D&D has always taken inspiration from these cultural sources, it just needs the occasional tune-up in the authenticity and cultural understanding of those influences. I look forward to seeing how they turn out, when the book comes out. Do people not have game shops where they can browse these things before deciding whether to buy?

[Millstone85]

Also... can we have a little less presumption of bad faith? When people make statements saying how they're excited to work with an ethnically and gender diverse team, and believe that they've made a better product because of it, could we please not immediately assume that they're mouthing empty words to score political points?Or worse yet, that they didn't actually bother making the product any good, because they intend to deflect all criticisms as so many attacks on their ethnically and gender diverse team.

But it is indeed a bit too soon to raise such alarms.

[Xervous]

Or worse yet, that they didn't actually bother making the product any good, because they intend to deflect all criticisms as so many attacks on their ethnically and gender diverse team.

But it is indeed a bit too soon to raise such alarms.

Wasn’t it also too soon with the Tasha naysayers? I don’t know how many books we need to establish a pattern. We’re probably not there yet, but who knows?

[Dr.Samurai]

Cynicism is not something the world needs more of right now.
It needs cynicism now more than ever. Talk is cheaper than it's ever been, and online content is driven by engagement, driven by emotional reactions.

You can't take anything anyone says online at face value. Especially when they're telling you how amazing and altruistic they are; how they're correcting wrongs and making rights, etc. Yeah, sure, me too. Look, I'm typing about it to tell you right now how amazing I am...

That said, I agree that this is one article and they chose to highlight these specific things. As a person that this article is likely trying to pander to, I don't care for it. But I would also wager that someone, somewhere, affiliated with this product, gave people some talking points about it that they want to highlight.

I find it slightly amusing (but mostly sad) that there are players out there wishing that their favorite setting be brought back and modernized into the most successful edition of D&D EVER, and instead they get this cool pronunciation guide :smallamused:.

[Sigreid]

*Exaggerated sigh* Guys, this is a very small snippet of (third-party) coverage on which to judge the book. Temper your certainty that this is going to be the worst manifestation of insert-whatever-trend-you-think-is-destroying-WotC-from-within.

The cover art is a little bit much, but you know what? Most of the 5e books have pretty lackluster cover art. Looking at you, monochrome-red PHB. For what it's worth I like the default better than the variant cover.

Also... can we have a little less presumption of bad faith? When people make statements saying how they're excited to work with an ethnically and gender diverse team, and believe that they've made a better product because of it, could we please not immediately assume that they're mouthing empty words to score political points? Cynicism is not something the world needs more of right now.

The new adventures look cool. D&D has always taken inspiration from these cultural sources, it just needs the occasional tune-up in the authenticity and cultural understanding of those influences. I look forward to seeing how they turn out, when the book comes out. Do people not have game shops where they can browse these things before deciding whether to buy?

All I really said was this article did nothing to make me hopeful that the book would be worthwhile to me. It is still possible that future information will win me over. But I'm one person. Even if it never appeals to me, there's still plenty of room for success. At this point though, it's looking like more of continuing a trend of focusing on things that do not improve my experience with the game (personal experience, again, just one person).

[KorvinStarmast]

It needs cynicism now more than ever.

You can't take anything anyone says online at face value.

Especially when they're telling you how amazing and altruistic they are; how they're correcting wrongs and making rights, etc.

{snip} But I would also wager that someone, somewhere, affiliated with this product, gave people some talking points about it that they want to highlight. Ya think? :smallwink:

I find it slightly amusing (but mostly sad) that there are players out there wishing that their favorite setting be brought back and modernized into the most successful edition of D&D EVER, and instead they get this cool pronunciation guide :smallamused:. Darksun or bust! :smallfurious:

[Catullus64]

It needs cynicism now more than ever. Talk is cheaper than it's ever been, and online content is driven by engagement, driven by emotional reactions.

You can't take anything anyone says online at face value. Especially when they're telling you how amazing and altruistic they are; how they're correcting wrongs and making rights, etc. Yeah, sure, me too. Look, I'm typing about it to tell you right now how amazing I am...

That said, I agree that this is one article and they chose to highlight these specific things. As a person that this article is likely trying to pander to, I don't care for it. But I would also wager that someone, somewhere, affiliated with this product, gave people some talking points about it that they want to highlight.

I find it slightly amusing (but mostly sad) that there are players out there wishing that their favorite setting be brought back and modernized into the most successful edition of D&D EVER, and instead they get this cool pronunciation guide :smallamused:.

You seem to call cynicism what I would call skepticism. Skepticism is typically healthy, cynicism is corrosive. Skepticism is a behavior, cynicism is a reflex.

"Are the adventures in this book truly authentic to the cultures from which they claim influence?" is a skeptical question. "Do these writers have a good grounding in these influences because of their ancestral descent?" is another. Questioning and investigating the claims made by the promoters of a product is healthy.

Concluding, without having seen the product in question, that its true motivation is just a maneuver in a culture war, and that the beliefs expressed are insincere, isn't a skeptical response. It is actually a very unskeptical response, which reflexively conforms to one's own assumptions about the motives behind certain kinds of speech, to one's own interpretation of current trends. It's what I would call cynicism, and it's what I see a lot of here.

And at the end of the day, no matter how much people let you down, assuming until it is proven otherwise that people mean what they say is pretty necessary to exist in civil society.

[Dr.Samurai]

You seem to call cynicism what I would call skepticism. Skepticism is typically healthy, cynicism is corrosive. Skepticism is a behavior, cynicism is a reflex.

"Are the adventures in this book truly authentic to the cultures from which they claim influence?" is a skeptical question. "Do these writers have a good grounding in these influences because of their ancestral descent?" is another. Questioning and investigating the claims made by the promoters of a product is healthy.
But even this, for me, is already further than I need to go. Because I don't ask these questions about ANY D&D books, and I don't care to, because that's not what the D&D books are about. I have never tested the veracity of D&D lore and mechanics against the cultures and mythologies they are inspired by, nor have I vetted previous authors on their "cred" to accurately depict or speak to anything in the book.

This was never necessary and, as far as I'm concerned, is still not necessary now. These questions are the product of a current social trend, one in which people benefit from supporting a certain idea. There is no reason to take these things at face value. No one cared when an elf looked a certain way in the Dungeons and Dragons movie, now when Amazon is doing it two decades later it's supposedly the first time ever an elf has looked this way and we should all be amazed. Why? Because it's advantageous to do so in these times. How many people that celebrated Black Panther as the first super hero movie with a lead that looked a certain way cared when the entire Blade trilogy graced the big screens between the late 90s and early 2000s? Why the difference? Because there's a benefit to caring now. Even just having this conversation on this forum; if I support these types of ideas being added to D&D, more people will agree with me and maybe these perfect strangers online might have a more favorable opinion of me. If I criticize it, maybe instead they assume bad things about me and I might also get a warning for breaking certain forum rules.

The influence of this trend is far too pervasive and entrenched to treat it with neutral skepticism as far as I'm concerned. People are rewarded for making the claims in this article, so they should be able to withstand some cynicism.

And at the end of the day, no matter how much people let you down, assuming until it is proven otherwise that people mean what they say is pretty necessary to exist in civil society.
For every day things, yes, I agree with you. For a re-imagining of what we're supposed to care about and how we're supposed to treat each other, I think we have to be more careful. An article that says to me "we should celebrate this product in part because we kept an entire group of people from touching it before production" doesn't deserve the benefit of my doubt. It seems to me it has received too much of that benefit already and that is why we're at the point where things like that can be said openly and applauded.

[KorvinStarmast]

How many people that celebrated Black Panther as the first super hero movie with a lead that looked a certain way cared when the entire Blade trilogy graced the big screens between the late 90s and early 2000s? Why the difference? Because there's a benefit to caring now. And the tragedy is that they didn't make one more film: Blade meets the drama and angst filled nitwits of Twilight. :smallbiggrin: (My money's on Blade, in the last scene, walking slowly away from a gore caked field while saying something like "good riddance" ... fade to black).

The influence of this trend is far too pervasive and entrenched to treat it with neutral skepticism as far as I'm concerned. People are rewarded for making the claims in this article, so they should be able to withstand some cynicism.
This painting is beautiful because my child painted it.
Similar process going on.

[Sparky McDibben]

*Exaggerated sigh* Guys, this is a very small snippet of (third-party) coverage on which to judge the book. Temper your certainty that this is going to be the worst manifestation of insert-whatever-trend-you-think-is-destroying-WotC-from-within.

The cover art is a little bit much, but you know what? Most of the 5e books have pretty lackluster cover art. Looking at you, monochrome-red PHB. For what it's worth I like the default better than the variant cover.

Also... can we have a little less presumption of bad faith? When people make statements saying how they're excited to work with an ethnically and gender diverse team, and believe that they've made a better product because of it, could we please not immediately assume that they're mouthing empty words to score political points? Cynicism is not something the world needs more of right now.

The new adventures look cool. D&D has always taken inspiration from these cultural sources, it just needs the occasional tune-up in the authenticity and cultural understanding of those influences. I look forward to seeing how they turn out, when the book comes out. Do people not have game shops where they can browse these things before deciding whether to buy?

This is a good take, and thanks for making it!

[Azuresun]

It needs cynicism now more than ever. Talk is cheaper than it's ever been, and online content is driven by engagement, driven by emotional reactions.

And the people falling over themselves to be the most scathing and infuriated about "not Planescape" or "cover's too bright" or "too much wokeness" or whatever, based on tiny scraps of information, are definitely not doing the same thing.

(Over time, I've noticed some people seem to wind their cynicism up to much greater levels than normal the moment the word "representation" enters the conversation.)

[Amechra]

I'm being way less generous about this than I'd normally be because Disney's recent shenanigans burned through my general good will towards businesses really hard.

And, well... WotC has a bit of a history of talking the talk but not walking the walk, as it were.

[Pooky the Imp]

When people use Medieval Europe for inspiration it's 'classical fantasy'.
When people use any other thing for inspiration it's 'political'.

Strawmen are still made of straw, I see.

Firstly, no, you can of course use cultures/places other than Medieval Europe for inspiration without it being political. (Though bear in mind also that if any 'evil' race's culture bears even the slightest resemblance to a non-European culture then you're an evil, racist imperialist.)

I mean, we even have examples of this like Oriental Adventures in 3.5, which was heavily based on Feudal Japan and Japanese mythology. I don't remember anyone complaining at the time that it was political. If anything, I imagine many here would like to see that return for 5e.

And, of course, there are many other cultures that could also work fine as inspiration.

But, for reference, part of the reason medieval Europe works well is because it was a time of kings, swords, heroes and myth, which is exactly what D&D aims to be. It was also an unstable period in many ways, with battles for territory and kings being dethroned in battle or through court intrigue (which is always good for stories, otherwise you'd be roleplaying as an adventurer who mooches around and just kinda gets on with life in a peaceful town where nothing interesting happens :smallwink:). Also, as technology improves, wars tend to get less 'personal'. When you're fighting someone with a sword or spear, you're close enough to see who you're killing - as opposed to firing muskets, rifles or cannons at distant figures in another field (or, in the case of artillery crews, at targets who are little more than map coordinates). It's also a time when monsters are most relevant. After all, creatures like dragons are terrifying when all you've got to defend yourself is a bow and spear (okay, maybe also some magic but you get the idea). However, they're probably less of a concern when you have a massive military machine outfitted with ground-to-air and air-to-air missiles that can turn said dragon into a cloud of mist and entrails from several miles beyond the range of its breath weapon.

There's also the fact that it isn't very political. Obviously it was very political at the time, but we don't have many groups demanding reparations for the results of the Battle of Hastings, for example. :smalltongue:

And, again, these traits are by no means unique to Medieval European history/mythology (though I imagine it has been by far the most familiar to D&D's traditional playerbase through most or all of the game's lifespan). As above, Feudal Japan has often been popular for this sort of thing. I imagine you could do the same with similar eras in India, China and suchlike.

But note 'similar eras'. Because, while delving deeper into the past is probably fine, once you advance past a certain point, any sense of verisimilitude starts to crack (e.g. if relatively modern firearms are available but the PCs are still running around with pointed sticks). Plus, as you get into more recent history, you also start to reach issues over which some still harbour resentment. Indeed, it's even more of a concern when periods appear to be chosen not because they fit in well with D&D's period and themes but specifically because they offer the writer an opportunity to spew his own opinions on such matters. Thus, phrases such as “Godsbreath is my personal homage to the Black experience in the Southern United states” and that Shadow of the Sun “has deep themes that make it feel very relevant to modern Iranians and POCs” tend to raise alarm-bells for me.

I could be wrong, of course, but it sounds an awful lot like these places were chosen specifically for reasons of modern politics, which is the opposite of what I like to see in my escapist fiction.


Incidentally, it's no less concerning that the article uses an entire paragraph to tell us that this is the first team led by a POC (that most humanising of terms). And that two women of colour did the artwork. And that 50 POC(s?) worked on the book. And that all 16 of the writers were black or brown (which is itself a weird thing to crow about if you're talking about diversity but whatever).

Again, each to their own, but I more interested in the merits of the final product than in the gender and ethnicity of the team that produced it.

[Sigreid]

I'm being way less generous about this than I'd normally be because Disney's recent shenanigans burned through my general good will towards businesses really hard.

And, well... WotC has a bit of a history of talking the talk but not walking the walk, as it were.

Given that this is the first foot forward for the product, it's not unreasonable to think that they're emphasizing what they think is most important about the product. Unfortunately, that they aren't really gushing about the product itself does not bode well.

[PhoenixPhyre]

Given that this is the first foot forward for the product, it's not unreasonable to think that they're emphasizing what they think is most important about the product. Unfortunately, that they aren't really gushing about the product itself does not bode well.

Right. What PR people decide should go foremost ("above the fold") generally correlates with what those PR people think is the important part. It's an established "trick" of journalism to hide inconvenient or unimportant things "below the fold".

So when your big major push for a product is "look at the characteristics of the writers", it's a reasonable assumption to treat that as what they think matters. Rather than "look at how awesome this product is".

As for me, I wasn't going to buy it anyway (because it's an adventure/setting book and I don't buy those at all for entirely orthogonal reasons) and so care very little about it. But it is certainly a datum about what WotC's priorities seem to be.

[Evaar]

The enthusiasm of Ajit George has won me over on this product, and I'll be checking it out. It's very clear he's put a lot of passion into it.

Candlekeep Mysteries is a pretty flawed book, but there's a lot of excellent stuff in there as well. If this also lends itself to linking the adventures together as part of a campaign - even if it's just a bunch of individual chapters without an overarching plot - then I might see if our group can run it next.

I understand everyone's first thought being "Why isn't this just Sigil" but it's clear there is a vision here that isn't just Sigil. I think they started from what they wanted the adventures to be able to do and then designed the hub; that hub just turned out to look superficially like Sigil. But it's more limited in its planar connections, and it doesn't have all the lore baggage that Sigil does. It's a different thing.

I also like that the hub opens a lot of character concepts up. You could actually have a Cyran Warforged adventuring alongside a Faerun Drow here and have it be reasonably plausible, given the broadness of the concept. And it seems like it gives you a way to say that this is where you ended up, but it was a one-way trip, so that Cyran Warforged isn't prompted to ask "Wait why am I not just going home?"

So I think there's a lot of good potential here. I just hope they spent a fair amount of time talking about the daily life and culture of the hub city, so there's a foothold for players to get into the head of someone who lives there.

[Millstone85]

Interview on the book.


https://youtu.be/5IC0AbjlIJM

So there is this giant crystal, the Auroral Diamond, floating in the Deep Ethereal.

Smaller but still really big crystals, the Concord Jewels, travel back and forth between it and 15 locations on the Material Plane, which is how 15 civilizations ended up sharing this peculiar hub.

There is also this mysterious creature that spent its last days coiled around the Auroral Diamond in a helix-like manner. The citadel was built on, and from, the creature's fossilized corpse.

Finally, there are these creatures called Dawn Incarnates which are basically beast-shaped shardminds, though that word is not used in the video. They like and embody stories.

IMO, that's a pretty good premise.

[False God]

While I'm not really interested in a bunch of short adventures, I know they do quite well among the PUG groups at the local game store.

[Azuresun]

Interview on the book.


https://youtu.be/5IC0AbjlIJM

So there is this giant crystal, the Auroral Diamond, floating in the Deep Ethereal.

Smaller but still really big crystals, the Concord Jewels, travel back and forth between it and 15 locations on the Material Plane, which is how 15 civilizations ended up sharing this peculiar hub.

There is also this mysterious creature that spent its last days coiled around the Auroral Diamond in a helix-like manner. The citadel was built on, and from, the creature's fossilized corpse.

Finally, there are these creatures called Dawn Incarnates which are basically beast-shaped shardminds, though that word is not used in the video. They like and embody stories.

IMO, that's a pretty good premise.

It's already a better planar metropolis than 3e's Union.

Anybody else even remember that one?

[loki_ragnarock]

It's already a better planar metropolis than 3e's Union.

Anybody else even remember that one?

Vaguely. I recall being unimpressed, but nothing specific.

Then I looked it up and remembered why I didn't like it. Ugh. Epic level garbage.

Don't know enough to say if it's actually better than Union, though.

[Rafaelfras]

The deep ethereal is a place for spirits like the four Cardinal Kings and the Idea of Evil, not shiny cities full of people 😝

[Gecks]

I think The Radiant Citadel actually works pretty well as a campaign hub- a unique and relatively idyllic location which the PCs will hopefully fall in love with and become invested in protecting and supporting, from which they can go forth from to enact quests and find adventure. For an episodic-type campaign where the DM strings together several loosely connected adventures (maybe some from this book, some pre-made and adapted, some hand-crafted), I think a crazy and beautiful multicultural city to use as a home base, staging-point, and beloved NPC collector is perfect. :smallsmile:

I do feel like a 15 culture plane-spanning multiverse (explicitly largely pulled from a very diverse collection of real-world cultures and time periods) might need more than a chapter or two at the front of an adventure anthology to do justice to the idea, though. It seems like the framing structures / locations used in Yawning Portal, Candlekeep, or even Ghost of Saltmarsh are many orders of magnitude simpler, which means a DM using this book as the basis of a campaign might have a lot of extra work and research to flesh things out properly and make the location feel real to the players.

[Gaius Hermicus]

My first takes:

1. I don't own Van Richten's, but I took a good look through it at a bookstore and I was very impressed with the tone and attention to detail. I know they were working from a preexisting setting but regardless, if the writer from that sourcebook is involved in this new module, I'm more inclined to be hopeful about it.

2. It's another anthology book? Oh joy. I actually liked the idea the first few times it came out. Tales from the Yawning Portal was great! But I'm concerned that the market is going to get oversaturated with these collections of one-shots. In particular, I worry that this particular book, without as distinct a uniting theme as the others, will suffer from the lack of a real target audience. Ghosts of Saltmarsh made perfect sense: all of these adventures are naval-themed! Candlekeep Mysteries made perfect sense: they're all investigations! This book, on the other hand, is making the unifying theme for its adventures "based on diverse cultures": i.e. they have no in-game unifying theme. This is going to make it one hell of an ask for casual DMs to buy the book - if you are interested in running Written in Blood but not Salted Legacy, why would you pay $50 for a single one-shot?

3. No new player options. Huh. Honestly, I'm fine with that. In my opinion, we have too many subclasses as is, and any number of setting-specific races is too many. The book is clearly targeted for DMs, and I see no reason why they should muddle that with player options.

4. Cover art looks hideous. I don't buy books for the cover art, so this will not affect my decision whether or not to buy the book. I hope the team of internal artists also comes from diverse backgrounds as well, though, because as beautiful as the landscape art in 5e books is, I grow tired of the typical character art. Having each adventure illustrated in a style matching its cultural inspiration would be awesome.

5. Salted Legacy looks fun to me. I get that it isn't for everyone, but I enjoy running role-play heavy games with a strong comedic element so I wouldn't mind taking a look at it. It seems like a low-stakes entry to the game for their new target audience of theatre kids and artistic types that they pandered to with Witchlight and Strixhaven so bully for them, I suppose.

6. Written in Blood, on the other hand, looks thoroughly awesome. I have very little interest in the cultural background for the story but anything in a Southern Gothic style is awesome, and I love horror games as well. I probably wouldn't be able to find a group to run it for, but it seems like the sort of adventure I would read through on my own time just for fun.

7. Shadow of the Sun is less interesting, as it seems the most "typical" of the adventures offered. It's at a fairly high level, though not so high that the game is broken. I don't think I'd care to run it myself but it's good to see them continuing to offer adventures more in the traditional spirit of the game.

8. The Radiant Citadel itself is a waste of time. All of the framing devices for these sourcebooks have been fairly weak so that is not atypical but a perfectly peaceful, harmoniously multicultural extraplanar city bores the hell out of me. Annoying also that they compared it to Sigil while making something nothing like Sigil in any way...

9. I'm torn, because on the one hand the book's raison d'etre is clearly politically motivated. I don't like it when they make statements like "all 16 writers are POC" as if that's a reason to buy the book. On the other hand, it's not as though they just pulled 16 random black, Asian, and Hispanic people off the streets and told them to write a story - these are (presumably) experienced, talented, skilled writers that have worked on similar projects in the past. Whatever the reason for hiring them, each writer must be motivated to create an engaging adventure with a distinct tone, and if they can pull it off while navigating a politicized hiring environment, more power to them.

10. What it all comes down to, really, is sales. I personally will not buy the book - there are way too many sourcebooks from previous years that are more applicable to my game that I haven't gotten around to yet. I suspect there are many other people that won't be buying it either, whether because it doesn't interest them or because they are turned off by the political motivations. There's probably a few people that will be more likely to buy it - either to support a minority-led project, or because one of the adventures reflects their own ethnic background and they want to run it - but I don't think that number will make up enough sales to make the book a success. If it's a flop, I hope it doesn't discourage them from making non-traditional settings for adventures in future, because God knows we could use them.

[Sigreid]

10. What it all comes down to, really, is sales. I personally will not buy the book - there are way too many sourcebooks from previous years that are more applicable to my game that I haven't gotten around to yet. I suspect there are many other people that won't be buying it either, whether because it doesn't interest them or because they are turned off by the political motivations. There's probably a few people that will be more likely to buy it - either to support a minority-led project, or because one of the adventures reflects their own ethnic background and they want to run it - but I don't think that number will make up enough sales to make the book a success. If it's a flop, I hope it doesn't discourage them from making non-traditional settings for adventures in future, because God knows we could use them.

Once you leave a handful of countries, the groups involved are not a minority though. Not by a long shot.

[Azuresun]

Once you leave a handful of countries, the groups involved are not a minority though. Not by a long shot.

Look, it's pretty simple. If something panders to a different demographic rather than pandering to my demographic, that means it's ZOMGPOLITICAL, which means it's bad and I hope it fails....I mean, it objectively deserves to fail for reasons that have nothing to do with my unexamined biases.

Does that clear it up?

[Satinavian]

A book with adventures and settings inspired by 13 rarely used cultures sound quite nice.

But then we get the 3 blurbs and while the Persian one seems to fit, "Salted legacy" sounds like it could play anywhere and the focus is general immigrant experience not a specific interesting culture and the third one is the ever present US again when there is hardly any culture more often presented than the American one.

I am sceptical.

[Sigreid]

Look, it's pretty simple. If something panders to a different demographic rather than pandering to my demographic, that means it's ZOMGPOLITICAL, which means it's bad and I hope it fails....I mean, it objectively deserves to fail for reasons that have nothing to do with my unexamined biases.

Does that clear it up?

No, it's pretty simple. If something only talks about the group that it's pandering to in it's first release of information, largely ignoring the content of the product itself; it's highly likely that its creators are more concerned with their politics than with putting out a good product. Don't care who made it. Don't care what cultures it draws from. Care that it's good enough that they're proud of their content. In this case, the first volley was just proud of who made it and almost ignored what was made.

[Catullus64]

No, it's pretty simple. If something only talks about the group that it's pandering to in it's first release of information, largely ignoring the content of the product itself; it's highly likely that its creators are more concerned with their politics than with putting out a good product. Don't care who made it. Don't care what cultures it draws from. Care that it's good enough that they're proud of their content. In this case, the first volley was just proud of who made it and almost ignored what was made.

You seem to be reading the logic behind this promo as:

'This product was made by a diverse team, and that's more important than if it's a good product.'

When I think a much more accurate parsing would be:

'This product was made by a diverse team, and this contributes to making a good product.'

You might still choose to disagree with the notion that a diversity of perspectives and cultural background improves the quality of a work, even a work that aims for diversity and cultural authenticity to be part of its fabric. But it's overly uncharitable to decide based on this release that the people involved don't have faith in the quality of the work.

[Sigreid]

You seem to be reading the logic behind this promo as:

'This product was made by a diverse team, and that's more important than if it's a good product.'

When I think a much more accurate parsing would be:

'This product was made by a diverse team, and this contributes to making a good product.'

You might still choose to disagree with the notion that a diversity of perspectives and cultural background improves the quality of a work, even a work that aims for diversity and cultural authenticity to be part of its fabric. But it's overly uncharitable to decide based on this release that the people involved don't have faith in the quality of the work.

Man, a few of you are missing my point. I don't mind diverse teams at all. I'm responding to the focus of the messaging. It's like if you have a job opening and you announce that you're going to be hiring a person from x group. You undermine confidence in who you hire because you signaled that x group was more important than ability. Whereas if you announce that you're looking for the best for the job and hire someone from x group, you send the message that they're just the best for the job. Based solely on that article the message I got was "buy this product because it was made by x group" and not "buy this product because it's freaking awesome!" Doesn't mean you can't say it was made by a group of talented people recruited out of India or whatever, but focus on the awesome and not the group.

[Catullus64]

Man, a few of you are missing my point. I don't mind diverse teams at all. I'm responding to the focus of the messaging. It's like if you have a job opening and you announce that you're going to be hiring a person from x group. You undermine confidence in who you hire because you signaled that x group was more important than ability. Whereas if you announce that you're looking for the best for the job and hire someone from x group, you send the message that they're just the best for the job. Based solely on that article the message I got was "buy this product because it was made by x group" and not "buy this product because it's freaking awesome!" Doesn't mean you can't say it was made by a group of talented people recruited out of India or whatever, but focus on the awesome and not the group.

I understood your point just fine. If you don't think that a person's cultural background is directly relevant to their ability to work on a product that aims to bring fresh perspectives and influences, I'm not the one to convince you of that (If only because it's a point I'm ambivalent on myself). But clearly the people who drafted this release do believe that; they believe that the diversity of the team and the backgrounds of its respective authors are direct causes of a quality product. You can disagree with that reasoning, but to say that it's de-emphasizing the quality of the product just doesn't seem to be engaging with what they're putting out there.

[Sigreid]

I understood your point just fine. If you don't think that a person's cultural background is directly relevant to their ability to work on a product that aims to bring fresh perspectives and influences, I'm not the one to convince you of that (If only because it's a point I'm ambivalent on myself). But clearly the people who drafted this release do believe that; they believe that the diversity of the team and the backgrounds of its respective authors are direct causes of a quality product. You can disagree with that reasoning, but to say that it's de-emphasizing the quality of the product just doesn't seem to be engaging with what they're putting out there.

I guess it's just with something like a billion people in India, it's not surprising to me that some of the best writers/creators would be there and I don't think it should be a big deal.

[Waterdeep Merch]

I personally don't care if it's political or even objectively good, at all. I just care about whether the adventures sound like something I would enjoy running. I'm sitting 50/50 with that announcement. Really good word of mouth could move me to take a look, otherwise it just doesn't seem worth the asking price for my personal tastes. But if they released those latter two adventures they mentioned as standalones, I'd probably snap them up immediately without even thinking about it.

Compendiums are cool and all, but is there any serious reason not to offer singular adventures in them, in this day and age? It would take a whole five minutes to make that pdf. Sell it for a "premium" at $10, I'd still be inclined to take a look. Some of us don't need or want the whole thing. And some of us might change our minds about the whole compendium thing after playing an adventure or two.

[Evaar]

Recent Twitter thread by Ajit George also added to my interest, it seems the approach here was to offer a middle ground between an adventure path and an anthology of episodic adventures. He calls it "life path." Comparisons would be to an adventure path being like a long movie, an anthology being an extremely episodic TV show with no serialization, whereas this approach seems like it'd be more like something like Buffy the Vampire Slayer in its story approach.

With Buffy, it's not that there's one thing the group is trying to stop throughout the whole show. Lots of stuff happens, and it's not all necessarily connected to a single larger threat (I'm not counting "hellmouth" as a single threat). The connecting factor is all this stuff is happening around Sunnydale, so it's coming to them.

So if they can deliver on that premise, I think that's great. That means your characters have a lot of freedom to get involved and invested in the Radiant Citadel, and that investment should then naturally translate to interest in the adventures that crop up. Your character runs an elite social club for the elite of the Citadel? Well adventure X means something threatens that, or has an opportunity you can exploit, or whatever, so your character is just naturally interested in checking it out.

I think this is a great balance if they can pull it off. You let characters have their own little sandbox in the Citadel, and the adventures come to them to provide their own structure. You get freedom and personalization, but also direction so you don't end up rudderless. This could provide a sense of having a home, which many adventures lack, without making characters ask "why would I want to leave my home?"

[truemane]

Metamagic Mod: thread closed.