Drider, Remove Curse?

[jjordan]

Genuinely don't know the answer to this. Would a player be able to use a Remove Curse to restore a drider to a drow? Off the top of my head I'm thinking that's more of a Wish or True Polymorph situation.

[Mastikator]

TBH I think a DM would have good grounds to say "no not even wish" because it's a divine curse and makes no mention of any return.

[nickl_2000]

True Polymorph should definitely work, considering that someone could be made into a Drider with it. I personally think Wish would be able to do it, but you are risking never being able to cast it again.

As was said above, this is the will of a Deity. There is no way a 3rd level spell would undo it. If a (N)PC upcast Remove Curse using a 9th level slot I would give it a %25 chance of succeeding. Either way though, Wish, True Polymorph, or upcast Wish it would tick off Lolth.




There is no RAW ruling AFAIK, so whatever fits best into your campaign as a DM is the way to go.

[loky1109]

True Polymorph should definitely work, considering that someone could be made into a Drider with it.
It will be polymorphed drider, not drow. Don't know about 5, but in 3.X is special mention about polymorphing spells. Drider isn't only spider torso, it is change of soul.

[nickl_2000]

It will be polymorphed drider, not drow. Don't know about 5, but in 3.X is special mention about polymorphing spells. Drider isn't only spider torso, it is change of soul.

Very true. They are a polymorphed Drider instead of a Polymorphed Drow. So, when they are lowered to 0 HP they once against become a Drider, still it is something to appear like a Drow again.

[Lord Vukodlak]

In my setting yes, but only because Driders don’t share the same divine connection. Driders are more akin to lycanthropes though they can’t spread the themselves.
Also they can change between humanoid and Drider form.

[loky1109]

Very true. They are a polymorphed Drider instead of a Polymorphed Drow. So, when they are lowered to 0 HP they once against become a Drider, still it is something to appear like a Drow again.

Appear - yes. But if you want truly change back only a wish or miracle (https://web.archive.org/web/20161101150824/http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/mm/20011118a) can help.

[CapnWildefyr]

True Polymorph should definitely work, considering that someone could be made into a Drider with it. I personally think Wish would be able to do it, but you are risking never being able to cast it again.

As was said above, this is the will of a Deity. There is no way a 3rd level spell would undo it. If a (N)PC upcast Remove Curse using a 9th level slot I would give it a %25 chance of succeeding. Either way though, Wish, True Polymorph, or upcast Wish it would tick off Lolth.

There is no RAW ruling AFAIK, so whatever fits best into your campaign as a DM is the way to go.

And DM, do not underplay the "tick off Lolth" part. That has to be a palpable threat.

- - - -

Another approach might be something completely different: use a wish to time travel it, don't wish for the drider to become a drow again, wish for the pre-drider drow to be brought forward into the present. Which might lead to fun conflicts between drider-boy and what he was before, or temporal causality rifts, or something fun to do a short story arc on.

[Lupine]

It will be polymorphed drider, not drow. Don't know about 5, but in 3.X is special mention about polymorphing spells. Drider isn't only spider torso, it is change of soul.

SHHHHH. someone might think you're agreeing with their "actual true form" view of true polymorph

To the DM. Remove curse as a spell is extremely lame. Unlike healing spells, which remove damage, or resurrection spells, which allow a player to keep playing their character, remove curse allows a player to shut down an entire storyline, which is... pretty bad.

I think you'd be well within your rights to make certain curses require rituals, or specific circumstances, before a remove curse spell could... well, remove the curse. Since being a Drider is a divine punishment, removing it would an ordeal worthy of it's own adventure.

I'd say make up some difficult task, where failure doesn't necessarily mean death. Perhaps "go capture this duegar town with this unit," or "take a unit, and defend this point," or "The elven priests of correlon are performing a ritual. Stop them" That sort of thing. Then, have the curse only able to be undone when the drider (with the aid of the players) completes the task given to them. So, perhaps they take the party and go capture that duergar town, or maybe they re-capture the originally designated point, or they might need to undo the ritual, and banish its effects.
Then, remove curse. Might want to have it trigger a fight with a Yochlol, or perhaps a more powerful demon, as a symbol of fighting the source of the Drider's Curse.


Basically, remove curse should be something that happens at the end of a story, instead of something that prevents it from happenin in the first place.

[Unoriginal]

Genuinely don't know the answer to this. Would a player be able to use a Remove Curse to restore a drider to a drow? Off the top of my head I'm thinking that's more of a Wish or True Polymorph situation.

As others said, the direct will of a powerful god is not the kind of thing Remove Curse can affect.

One of the adventure modules do have a NPC transformed into a different shape by a deity he tried to fight to earn glory. Explicitly, the only thing that can turn him back is for him to spill the blood of the deity on the ground.

[jjordan]

I was 100% in the 'curse of the gods can't be cured with a 3rd level spell' until I read up on the history of lycanthropy (a curse inflicted by the gods). I'm still saying a drider can't be cured with a 3rd level spell for the purposes of my game but I'm not 100% certain about it anymore. :)

[False God]

And DM, do not underplay the "tick off Lolth" part. That has to be a palpable threat.

IMO, this is the more important element to the question. Driders are (depending on your lore) both a blessing and a curse to Drow who either pleased or displeased Lolth. Lolth, the demon-queen of spiders, both hates her appearance and thinks she's the most beautiful creature to have ever lived. Thus being a drider is situationally a blessing or a curse.

Perhaps "uncursing" a drider is actually quite easy, but Lolth is well known to be an active god on the mortal plane, often indirectly setting her minions on people if not directly getting up in your grill, so people don't do it because "don't piss off the god" is a good rule to live by.

I would argue Wish or Miracle could do it, because these are powered by super-high magic or other gods, though they still retain the "don't piss of Lolth" element. But if you do roll with the "don't piss off Lolth" element, do not underplay it. Lolth is a cruel, vicious, thoroughly evil deity.

Technically speaking magic can't "undo" being a drider. It's a mutation, not a magical effect. Things like Lycanthropy or Vampirism are active magical effects that sustain and power the magical creature. A drider is a singular transformation that happened at some point in the past. You can't "uncurse" it any more than you can "uncurse" puberty.

[Unoriginal]

I was 100% in the 'curse of the gods can't be cured with a 3rd level spell' until I read up on the history of lycanthropy (a curse inflicted by the gods). I'm still saying a drider can't be cured with a 3rd level spell for the purposes of my game but I'm not 100% certain about it anymore. :)

I don't recal that part of the lore about Lycanthropy in 5e, but it's still coherent:

You're not attempting to cure the original, god-created werewolf, you're attempting to cure someone who was cursed by someone who was cursed by someone who was cursed by someone who was cursed...

Even the Loup-Garou, the more powerful werewolf from the Van Richten's, can't be cured with a simple Remove Curse.

[Lord Vukodlak]

Technically speaking magic can't "undo" being a drider. It's a mutation, not a magical effect. Things like Lycanthropy or Vampirism are active magical effects that sustain and power the magical creature. A drider is a singular transformation that happened at some point in the past. You can't "uncurse" it any more than you can "uncurse" puberty.
Funny story, I had a wizard who messed with time magic and ended up aging backwards. He did in fact uncurse puberty.

[Mastikator]

Polymorph + Clone or reincarnation shenanigans is probably the safest way to undo driderism.