Staff of the Adder question

[elyktsorb]

So I'm playing a Monk/Druid and stumbled across a Staff of the Adder

Now, the Snake Head attack that deals the poison damage, specifically says you can add your PB to the attack, and only says the initial hit does 1d6 piercing, no str modifier added, does that mean the attack is made without adding your Strength modifier to it in the first place, you just swing with you PB? (and subsequently that means I can't exchange it for dex)

[KorvinStarmast]

I'm playing a Monk/Druid and stumbled across a Staff of the Adder

Now, the Snake Head attack that deals the poison damage, specifically says you can add your PB to the attack, and only says the initial hit does 1d6 piercing, no str modifier added, does that mean the attack is made without adding your Strength modifier to it in the first place, you just swing with you PB? (and subsequently that means I can't exchange it for dex) That's a good question.

You make a melee attack using the snake head
A melee attack with a quarterstaff usually applies the Strenth Mod. (It lacks the finesse property). The quarter staff is on the simple melee weapon table.

Every weapon is classified as either melee or ranged. A melee weapon is used to attack a target within 5 feet of you, whereas a ranged weapon is used to attack a target at a distance. By default, melee weapons use strength.
requires the use of strength.

Thrown. If a weapon has the thrown property, you can throw the weapon to make a ranged attack. If the eeapon
is a melee weapon, you use the same ability modifier for that attack roll and damage roll that you would use for a melee attack with the weapon. For example, if you throw a handaxe, you use your Strength, but if you throw a dagger, you can use either your Strength or your Dexterity, since the dagger has the finesse property.
One uses Dexterity as exceptions for monks or finesse/light. I think you would use your STR mod, or your DEX mod, as well as your proficiency bonus, on the attack.

I'd be interested to see other opinions on this, and the reasoning why.

[J-H]

The tentacle rod is also phrased similarly, but my understanding is that it makes 3 attacks at +9 doing 1d6 damage each (no ability modifier to damage) since the weapon is attacking as an activated magic item, rather than the user attacking with it as a magic weapon.

However, the Staff of the Adder says you make a melee attack, so that's the user doing it. I'd allow an ability modifier as appropriate, Str or (for monk) Dex.

[Demonslayer666]

I could see it as no modifier added, as you just maneuver the snake into position, and it strikes for a d6. The animated snake is doing the striking, not you, so you aren't putting force behind it.

[elyktsorb]

That's a good question.

A melee attack with a quarterstaff usually applies the Strenth Mod.

One uses Dexterity as exceptions for monks or finesse/light. I think you would use your STR mod, or your dex mod, as well as your proficiency bonus, on the attack.


See, my issue with this, is that the weapon specifically states your Proficiency bonus applies to the attack roll. But why would it need to clarify that unless you weren't allowed to use the Strength modifier for it as usual?

The actual text reads as such.

"You can make a melee attack using the snake head, which has a reach of 5 feet. Your proficiency bonus applies to the attack roll. On a hit, the target takes 1d6 piercing damage and must succeed on a DC 15 Constitution saving throw or take 3d6 poison damage."

If not for the line in bold, I would assume the attack was made as a regular melee attack.

Or am I to assume that the first line of text..

"You can use a bonus action to speak this staff's command word and make the head of the staff become that of an animate poisonous snake for 1 minute. By using another bonus action to speak the command word again, you return the staff to its normal inanimate form."

Is referring to the fact that it turning into an animate poisonous snake means that I should be using the actual stat block for the creature it names and as such, the 'poisonous snake' has a Proficiency Bonus of 2, which would mean it's using it's +3 dex to attack with that as well meaning I'd be using the snakes dexterity modifier and my Proficiency bonus?!

[KorvinStarmast]

See, my issue with this
Then only use PB and press on.
Are you the DM or the Player?

[elyktsorb]

Then only use PB and press one.
Are you the DM or the Player?

I mean, player, but that's hardly the point. I'm mostly just genuinely curious about why it states that more than anything.

[PhantomSoul]

See, my issue with this, is that the weapon specifically states your Proficiency bonus applies to the attack roll. But why would it need to clarify that unless you weren't allowed to use the Strength modifier for it as usual?

Probably because the default rules only need "overriding" in one case (adding proficiency bonus when not proficient with snake heads).

[Chronos]

They tell you to add your proficiency bonus, because otherwise you might not be proficient with it.

Well, OK, I'm pretty sure everyone is proficient with staves, anyway. But it's the principle of the thing.

[elyktsorb]

They tell you to add your proficiency bonus, because otherwise you might not be proficient with it.

Well, OK, I'm pretty sure everyone is proficient with staves, anyway. But it's the principle of the thing.

I mean, it's only the head of the staff that turns into the snake, connected to the staff. The only thing that implies you wouldn't still be proficient with the weapon is the statement about you being able to use your Proficiency Bonus with it.

I wanted to find an example of another weapon that has a transformation of some kind to see if it also included such a statement, but I can't seem to find one in a similar vein. Perhaps that is why the statement was added? As it is the only kind of weapon with a partial transformation that could potentially throw your Proficiency with it into question?

[KorvinStarmast]

I could see it as no modifier added, as you just maneuver the snake into position, and it strikes for a d6. The animated snake is doing the striking, not you, so you aren't putting force behind it. That makes as much sense as my assessment, thanks for your thoughts on the 'why' of it.