What is the most 5e build?

[Rfkannen]

If you wanted to make a character that most represented dnd 5e, both the good and the bad, what would it be?

[RogueJK]

Hexblade 1/Paladin 6/Sorcerer X.

Fun and effective, but cheesier than a five cheese pizza with extra cheese.

All hail the God Stat! :smalltongue:

[ThaddeusJenkins]

Hexblade 1/Paladin 6/Sorcerer X.

Fun and effective, but cheesier than a five cheese pizza with extra cheese.

All hail the God Stat! :smalltongue:

Don't forget Fighter 2 for the Action Surge

[Corran]

Hexblade 2/Anything X. Because apparently warlocks were not already frontloaded enough.

Dipping one level for armor on a caster is also a very 5e thing. As well as 1/3 casters.

[Psyren]

If you wanted to make a character that most represented dnd 5e, both the good and the bad, what would it be?

I'd probably do a straight Moon Druid.

1) Core.
2) Doesn't need multiclassing or feats, showing that those are optional features.
3) You get exposure to the melee, ranged, and spellcasting mechanics.
4) Combines short rest and long rest resources.
5) Forces players to understand how bounded accuracy and monster statblocks work.
6) Animal forms mean plenty of interactions with the ability check system (scouting, sneaking, traversing, grappling etc.)
7) Shows newcomers how wonky 1-20 scaling in 5e can be :smalltongue:

[loki_ragnarock]

Most 5e?

Probably the Nuclear Wizard or Coffeelock.

[Kane0]

Woah that's a broad scope.

Sorlock, Pallock, EK/War Wiz, Battlemaster/anything, Ranger/Rogue, Barbarian/Rogue...

[animorte]

All hail the God Stat! :smalltongue:
kneels down for the 712th time this year


Hexblade 2/Anything X. Because apparently warlocks were not already frontloaded enough.
Truth. Honestly, while the Warlocks are my favorite because customization, I'm not a Hexblade worshipper.

Speaking of frontloaded though, Cleric dips too.

[PattThe]

Lore Bard with Fireball.

[Sparky McDibben]

Cleric (Thunder) 2 / Artificer (Armorer) X.

That's the easy answer. But the real "Top 5e build" is a DM tearing their hair out in frustration at vague / unsupported adventures with zero structure.

[animorte]

That's the easy answer. But the real "Top 5e build" is a DM tearing their hair out in frustration at vague / unsupported adventures with zero structure.

That's what you're here for buddy! In the amount of time I've been on here, I think your table beckons to me the most at the moment.

[Sparky McDibben]

That's what you're here for buddy! In the amount of time I've been on here, I think your table beckons to me the most at the moment.

You're awesome, dude; this comment made my day!

[strangebloke]

Coffeelock. Pure jank unique to 5e.

[5eNeedsDarksun]

Got to be a full caster with a dip of 1 level to get armor, shield, etc.
At the very least, must use the word dip and that must certainly not be more that 2 levels.

[PattThe]

Got to be a full caster with a dip of 1 level to get armor, shield, etc.
At the very least, must use the word dip and that must certainly not be more that 2 levels.

Clerics are fullcasters, most of them get armor, many get martials, and level 20 mountain dwarf wizards have heavy armor proficiency.
AND THEY GET +2 +2 TO ANY STAT

[Rynjin]

Coffeelock. Pure jank unique to 5e.

This. It is one of the only truly unique builds 5e has (by which I mean, it isn't replicable in any capacity by previous editions).

It also also exhibits 5e's biggest mechanic thoroughly, for better or worse: Short Rests, and the way the entire game is built around them.

Finally, it is the 5e build that even 5e casuals (like myself) have heard of, and I think the fact that it has its own cute name, akin to something like "Mailman" or "AM BARBARIAN" (for 3.5 and Pathfinder respectively) is the real determiner of that.

[tokek]

Its funny that everyone thinks of the theory-crafted jank builds. Are these actually common anywhere? Because I've never seen a full version of any of these in play. (Maybe I never played enough AL)

I'd say that the most 5e build is any Warlock. Short rest class, covers all of the 5e bases really well. Its fairly consistently one of the most popular caster classes and I've yet to play a game in 5e that did not have one at some point.

[Rynjin]

Its funny that everyone thinks of the theory-crafted jank builds. Are these actually common anywhere? Because I've never seen a full version of any of these in play. (Maybe I never played enough AL)

I'd say that the most 5e build is any Warlock. Short rest class, covers all of the 5e bases really well. Its fairly consistently one of the most popular caster classes and I've yet to play a game in 5e that did not have one at some point.

If I wanted to be rude, I could have said "Human Champion Fighter" is the most 5e build (because the game is vanilla and boring ah-hyuck), but that's not really in the spirit the thread was intended I think.

I did think about just saying Warlock, TBF, since I think it's by far the most fun 5e class (it's the only one I've played multiple times), and the most unique of the classes as well, but "any Warlock" isn't really a build, so again, not in the spirit of the thread IMO.

[tokek]

I did think about just saying Warlock, TBF, since I think it's by far the most fun 5e class (it's the only one I've played multiple times), and the most unique of the classes as well, but "any Warlock" isn't really a build, so again, not in the spirit of the thread IMO.

OK that's fair. I would say any melee warlock, as the 3.5 warlock was even more tied into eldritch blast than 5e warlocks are as I recall.

Pact of the Blade warlock, probably Hexblade but not necessarily, most commonly Tiefling. Its not a build that gets discussed by optimisers much but its the most 5e thing - I mean if you sit down at the table and there is a Pact of the Blade warlock I think you immediately know which version of the game you are playing.

[RogueJK]

Its funny that everyone thinks of the theory-crafted jank builds. Are these actually common anywhere? Because I've never seen a full version of any of these in play.

I've seen several Hexblade/Paladins and even more Paladin/Sorcerers (and played a few different Sorcadins myself), but have yet to see a Hexsorcadin in actual play. No Coffeelocks or Nuclear Wizards either.


level 20 mountain dwarf wizards have heavy armor proficiency.

Not without the Heavily Armored feat. Mountain Dwarves only get racial light and medium armor proficiency. Heavy armor or shield proficiency requires multiclassing or feats.

[Unoriginal]

If you wanted to make a character that most represented dnd 5e, both the good and the bad, what would it be?

According to the BG3's crew, that would be an Human Fighter.

[loki_ragnarock]

Its funny that everyone thinks of the theory-crafted jank builds. Are these actually common anywhere? Because I've never seen a full version of any of these in play. (Maybe I never played enough AL)


For my answers, I've never seen them in play, but that's not really the line of thinking that got me there.

Nuclear Wizard and Coffeelock exploit rules and assumptions specific to this edition, serving as a means of highlighting the rules structures in the process. I'd go so far as to say that Coffeelock is probably the better example for demonstrating 5e, since it interacts with (and exploits) more of the core assumptions of the system.

[RedMage125]

I've seen several Hexblade/Paladins and even more Paladin/Sorcerers (and played a few different Sorcadins myself), but have yet to see a Hexsorcadin in actual play.


I'm playing a Hexsorcerer in my current game. No plans to add paladin to the mix tho.

For the OP, I quite agree that a CHA based character with 2 or 3 levels of Hexblade Warlock and at least 3 in sorcerer (using the trick in the Coffeelock Build) would be key to highlighting something mechanical that is unique to 5e. Maybe adding the Paladin in there, because Smite mechanics are way different in 5e than in any other edition.

Warlocks didn't become a Core class until 4e, where the choices of pact were Fiend, Fey, and "Star" (similar in flavor to GOO). So Hexblade presents something unique to the edition (yes, there was a 3e class called hexblade, but it was nothing like this one, and 4e Essentials had a melee class that was technically a warlock called "hexblade", but it was terrible).

Sorcerer using Spell slots and having those points that could be used for metamagic or more slots is also unique to 5e. And using the multiclassing rules, those Short Rest pact magic slots can be traded in for SP, and back into more slots, so that's pretty dope.

[TotallyNotEvil]

Cleric (Thunder) 2 / Artificer (Armorer) X.

That's the easy answer. But the real "Top 5e build" is a DM tearing their hair out in frustration at vague / unsupported adventures with zero structure.

I'm curious, why is that the easy answer to you?

[tokek]

Warlocks didn't become a Core class until 4e, where the choices of pact were Fiend, Fey, and "Star" (similar in flavor to GOO). So Hexblade presents something unique to the edition (yes, there was a 3e class called hexblade, but it was nothing like this one, and 4e Essentials had a melee class that was technically a warlock called "hexblade", but it was terrible).


This was my thinking. If I sit down at a random table and there is a hexblade in play I immediately know I'm at a 5e table. Its incredibly distinctive - and I've been playing since OD&D.

The crazy multi-classes? Well unless its one of those neckbeards who insists on explaining their exploits to me I probably won't even figure out the full mechanics for a couple of sessions - not if we stick to just playing the game and role-playing anyway.

But that Hexblade (or pact of the blade in general)? Yeah really distinctive and obvious inside the first session.

[Eldariel]

I think Bard is the most 5e class, being a completely reimagined class from its 4e predecessors. If we want to include the dip culture and the great Charisma-stat, I think Hexblade 2/Lore Bard X is a pretty good representation.

Sadly I think the most 5e thing, Diviner's predetermined die rolls (first time D&D has done that), is hard to include sensibly as well as the absurd power differentials in Tier 1 (where Moon Druid in particular is basically a Tier 2 character for 3 levels extra compared to everyone else). Another thing that pops to mind in 5e is the ridiculous power level of action economy and thus minionmancy (it just so happens this edition is the first to really allow hordes under PC control effortlessly from level 5 where all casters except Bard & non-Divine Soul Sorcerer can control 8+ minions), but that's something Lore Bard can get, if a bit later and without enhancers.

[PattThe]

I've seen several Hexblade/Paladins and even more Paladin/Sorcerers (and played a few different Sorcadins myself), but have yet to see a Hexsorcadin in actual play. No Coffeelocks or Nuclear Wizards either.



Not without the Heavily Armored feat. Mountain Dwarves only get racial light and medium armor proficiency. Heavy armor or shield proficiency requires multiclassing or feats.

Cool. Wizards only need 20 int. Take the damn Feat. Don't multiclass for proficiencies when theorizing an archetypal thematic build....

[Kane0]

Seems Sorlock is the winner.

Which makes sense I suppose. It's easy to achieve by the end of Tier 1 play, it has it's own identity akin to Pun-Pun and Mailman, showcases 5e's Short Rests, shows that MCing in 5e can be great for caster/caster builds just as much as it is for martial/martial and martial/caster combinations, displays the sort of cheese available in 5e while also showing the relative gap in power and complexity of that cheese, gives a good feel for how subclasses, spellcasting and the action economy work in 5e without relying on feats, magic items or splatbooks on top of that. Hell it even emphasizes the Cha/Dex 'godstats' and leaves a ton of build space available to customize almost any which way you want between race, background, subclass, spell, boon, metamagic and invocation choices, and you could throw paladin in too because why not.

[No brains]

Everybody's homebrew.

If there's one thing I see more than anything else in here, it's someone trying to 'fix' 5e. Some days it seems like everybody wants to play 5e, but nobody actually likes it.

[Petrocorus]

Nuclear Wizard and Coffeelock exploit rules and assumptions specific to this edition, serving as a means of highlighting the rules structures in the process. I'd go so far as to say that Coffeelock is probably the better example for demonstrating 5e, since it interacts with (and exploits) more of the core assumptions of the system.
The Nuclear Wizard is the one with the super curse-empowered magic missile?

For the Coffeelock, i think the worst is that it's not even a specific build. Any sorlock is potentially a Coffeelock after reaching Sorcerer 2. You need Warlock 3 and Aspect of the Moon (or some specific race) to get a fully brewed coffee, but even Warlock 1/ Sorcerer 2 has already the potential.

The only thing preventing a Sorlock to be a Coffeelock is the player's decency and the DM's divine smites.


If there's one thing I see more than anything else in here, it's someone trying to 'fix' 5e. Some days it seems like everybody wants to play 5e, but nobody actually likes it.
We do like it and this is why we're so frustrated with the few problems it has. Especially since some of them could have been fixed easily.

[RedMage125]

For the Coffeelock, i think the worst is that it's not even a specific build. Any sorlock is potentially a Coffeelock after reaching Sorcerer 2. You need Warlock 3 and Aspect of the Moon (or some specific race) to get a fully brewed coffee, but even Warlock 1/ Sorcerer 2 has already the potential.

The only thing preventing a Sorlock to be a Coffeelock is the player's decency and the DM's divine smites.



Decaf Coffeelock is less offensive, but still good.

That's where you make an elf, who get their Long Rest in 4 hours (which resets all your spell slots and sorcery points), then take 4 SRs, building up only a few extra spell slots for the day.

[Waazraath]

I tend to agree with the sentiment that coffee locks and nuclear wizards are quite far from 'the most 5e build', since they are very niche, (mostly) technical optimization builds for on forums like these and don't see much actual play. I also tend to not including multiclass / feats (due to optional rules) - while I understand it's tempting to include 'more of 5e' in a build in this way.

I guess my most 5e build would be a Half-Elf Ancients Paladin 20; no optional rules (or later optional books) needed, half-elf being one of the top (core) races this edition, and Ancients Paladin showing the huge progression this edition made in doing away with alignment restrictions (replacing them with oaths in the case of the pally) and thus allowing more freedom in roleplay as well as addtional concepts (like the fey/nature paladin), combined with (again compared with earlier editions) much better mechanics, making the paladin from hardly accessible (ad&d) to underpowered (3.0/3.5 before adding loads of splat books) to a very strong class.

When including non-core, I probably end up with a Rune Knight, since it's an unique subclass (compared to earlier editions) and the Fighter class got a similar upgrade as the paladin - while a bit less powerful in general, it's fun and extremely dependable.

[KorvinStarmast]

I guess my most 5e build would be a Half-Elf Ancients Paladin 20; no optional rules (or later optional books) needed, half-elf being one of the top (core) races this edition, and Ancients Paladin showing the huge progression this edition made in doing away with alignment restrictions (replacing them with oaths in the case of the pally) and thus allowing more freedom in roleplay as well as additional concepts (like the fey/nature paladin), combined with (again compared with earlier editions) much better mechanics, making the paladin from hardly accessible (AD&D) to underpowered (3.0/3.5 before adding loads of splat books) to a very strong class. This gets my vote.

My non core "what is the most 5e build" is either Divine Soul Sorcerer or Celestial Warlock, followed by Gloom Stalker Ranger. They really captured something with that sub class of Ranger.

In my less charitable moods I find that the most 5e build is the Wild Magic Sorcerer 20: great thematically (magic is a force of chaos, it is both powerful and dangerous) combined with poor implementation. (Beast Master is a close second: thematics sound, implementation clunky).

[Azuresun]

Everybody's homebrew.

If there's one thing I see more than anything else in here, it's someone trying to 'fix' 5e. Some days it seems like everybody wants to play 5e, but nobody actually likes it.

These days, it feels surprisingly hard in general to find a D&D-centered community that actually likes 5e....and this is relatively mild compared to many others.

[animorte]

These days, it feels surprisingly hard in general to find a D&D-centered community that actually likes 5e....and this is relatively mild compared to many others.

I think it's a lot less about that and a lot more about the fact that there will never be a game that accounts for everything the fans could possibly imagine in their perfect image. This is primarily because everyone seeks a different aesthetic to suit their needs. I think it's great that 5e offers an excellent foundation for people to build upon and adjust according to the preferences of their table.

[Petrocorus]

That's where you make an elf, who get their Long Rest in 4 hours (which resets all your spell slots and sorcery points), then take 4 SRs, building up only a few extra spell slots for the day.

Which is not how a lot of DM interpret the trance rule. Even after the Sage Advice.
And the writers themselves changed their minds about this, the SA Compendium of 2016 was saying the elf needed 8 hours for an LR. It changed in 2017.

[PattThe]

And lastly, the most 5e Multiclass build (that isn't Gestalt)



Assassin Paladin. Good old PHB combo fresh out the box.

[SVamp]

I think the most 5e thing is bards not sucking and even being awesome, so I’d say a bard counter spelling better than a wizard while using a couple of the really heavy hitting wizard spells is a good example.

Fighter 12. Fighter 20. Fighters being awesome.

Paladins being awesome. Quarterstaff + shield ridiculous paladins were a thing until spears were allowed with Pam. That was a long time though so shield + quarterstaff was fairly iconic lol.

Armoured wizards.

Wizards are now wizards with sorcerer abilities, so any wizard.

(Most) pure Sorcerers essentially sucking hard unless played by an accountant, and all around knowledgeable/experienced spell caster player.

[Talionis]

5e is actually really strong. It balances casters and non casters far better than previous editions. There is far less broken RAW in it. Worst abusers are Coffelock and chain Similacrums. There are certainly still balancing issues. Memes about Monks and Rangers sucking. Ease of Hexblade dip is silly.

5e is so balanced that you can multi class into every class and probably not suck, if optimized it would be fun to play. So build what you want that is fun and you will have fun.


On the whole we’ve had fifth edition a long time so it’s known. New content is slow to come out and dilute. Because it’s far less breakable as previous editions we don’t have the iconic builds. The speed and volume of new material may be boring the more voracious users of content.

[Ogre Mage]

These days, it feels surprisingly hard in general to find a D&D-centered community that actually likes 5e....and this is relatively mild compared to many others.

As someone who has been playing D&D for a long time, this is mild compared to earlier times. The dark days of the edition wars (roughly 2008-12) were so toxic it drove me from D&D forums.

[Keravath]

Its funny that everyone thinks of the theory-crafted jank builds. Are these actually common anywhere? Because I've never seen a full version of any of these in play. (Maybe I never played enough AL)

I'd say that the most 5e build is any Warlock. Short rest class, covers all of the 5e bases really well. Its fairly consistently one of the most popular caster classes and I've yet to play a game in 5e that did not have one at some point.

I've certainly seen the hexblade/paladin/sorcerer combination in AL play.

One of the reasons that these theory builds are less common in actual games are the level which some folks typically play at. It takes time and levels for some of these really multiclassed builds to come online (though a one level dip in hexblade is doable in almost any campaign but it does slow down character progression in their main class)

Coming from an AD&D background I have friends who have been playing for decades that start moving out of their comfort zone around level 6 and may not ever have played characters past level 10 or so just because the earlier editions became very lopsided at higher levels. 5e has less of that. Bounded accuracy, 3 item attunement limit, limited high level spell slots tend to mitigate the "save or die" trope of previous high level D&D play - all contribute to higher level play being an option that should be considered.

I've also seen barbarian/rogue, ranger/rogue, tons of sorlocks or bardlocks (actually one of my favorites to play), paladin/warlock, paladin/sorcerer and lots of other combinations.

I haven't actually seen any "coffeelocks" because most DMs I play with ban the mechanic it relies on (multiple short rests instead of a long rest - never taking a long rest that would reset spell slots). Even in AL play - again due to it being a DM call.

[Joe the Rat]

This was my thinking. If I sit down at a random table and there is a hexblade in play I immediately know I'm at a 5e table. Its incredibly distinctive - and I've been playing since OD&D.

I was going to point out that 3rd and 4th had Hexblades as well, but the 3rd ed version was janky enough to be a rarity even in Strange Builds, and 4th ed, well...
If you sit down at a random table and someone is waxing poetic about their Hexblade, you definitely know you're at a 5e table.

[Keravath]

These days, it feels surprisingly hard in general to find a D&D-centered community that actually likes 5e....and this is relatively mild compared to many others.

Weird. Personally, I think it is the best and most accessible edition yet and I have played most of them starting with AD&D. I have fond memories of AD&D but, being honest, 5e is much better. It captures the same feel (for me) as AD&D and doesn't have the additional layers of complexity and detail that became the hallmark (to me) of 3.5 and Pathfinder.

Most of the groups I play with have a similar view though some of the folks I have played with since AD&D days can find it an effort to pick up 5e due to some of the different mechanics or because it doesn't have the same level of complexity and detail of some of the other editions.

[KorvinStarmast]

...some of the folks I have played with since AD&D days can find it an effort to pick up 5e due to some of the different mechanics or because it doesn't have the same level of complexity and detail of some of the other editions. I had quite a learning curve, as most of my systems mastery was Old D&D and AD&D(1e). Did some 2e but around that time it came out, our first child was born so my RPGing got curtailed considerably.

[Miele]

I never cared which edition I was playing, as long as it was fun. 5e lacks in some departments, but honestly nobody at my table cares. We play mono-classes mostly by choice, if someone is bored, we let them change (they retain character name and knowledge of the events) or make up a story on how and why they left.

Roleplaying is king, everything else is just icing on the top.

I'm in the process of swapping character, from AT rogue to bm ranger, or maybe something different, but I'm looking forward to the next session where I will make a memorable exit (and become an NPC!).

I consider D&D as a special game that I played for 35 years, rules are just mechanics and 5e gives a very simple foundation to use, which makes the game run smoothly and quickly.

My favourite class is the wizard, but the most iconic I think is the warlock or the bard.
P.s.: nobody plays optimized characters here, actually they go really more for the theme.

[5eNeedsDarksun]

Looks like most people, including me in my first post, focused on class/ subclass. If I'm thinking race it's got to be VHuman. At the levels most people play that extra feat makes this pretty attractive. I wouldn't say Custom, as lots of tables haven't accepted that one RAW.

[RedMage125]

I was going to point out that 3rd and 4th had Hexblades as well, but the 3rd ed version was janky enough to be a rarity even in Strange Builds, and 4th ed, well...
If you sit down at a random table and someone is waxing poetic about their Hexblade, you definitely know you're at a 5e table.
Lol, I called that out in my first post, too...


Warlocks didn't become a Core class until 4e, where the choices of pact were Fiend, Fey, and "Star" (similar in flavor to GOO). So Hexblade presents something unique to the edition (yes, there was a 3e class called hexblade, but it was nothing like this one, and 4e Essentials had a melee class that was technically a warlock called "hexblade", but it was terrible).



Looks like most people, including me in my first post, focused on class/ subclass. If I'm thinking race it's got to be VHuman. At the levels most people play that extra feat makes this pretty attractive. I wouldn't say Custom, as lots of tables haven't accepted that one RAW.

Really? Because I saw a lot of people play humans in 3.5e. Like, a lot, and the bonus feat featured heavily in that. Saw a lot in 4e, too, even though I think they were one of the worst 4e races.

If I was saying race, I'd say either Tabaxi (because I see a lot of them and they weren't a thing in 3e or 4e, and only a monster in 2e) or Half-Elves. Back in 2e, if your DM didn't enforce "demihuman level limits", most people played half-elves over humans, unless you wanted to be a paladin or certain type of specialist wizard. In 3.0, half-elves SUCKED. 3.5e made a small improvement, but not much. 4e they were prety underwhelming unless you wanted to multiclass (which wasn't great in 4e). 5e finally made them an attractive choice again (especially with how CHA is such a beastly stat now).

[Lunali]

The Nuclear Wizard is the one with the super curse-empowered magic missile?

Correct, and for anyone else wondering, Nuclear Wizard is hexblade1/fighter2/evoker17.

It takes advantage of magic missile being technically a multitarget spell, so you technically roll 1d4+1 one time and that's the damage for every dart. That means that anything that adds to a single damage roll applies separately to every dart, specifically the +5 from int for evoker 10 and +6 for proficiency bonus from hexblade's curse. So once per day you can cast 9th level magic missile for (1d4)*11+132, then action surge to cast at 8th level for (1d4)*10+120. The action surge and curse come back on a short rest so you can still do more than that, but that's your big attack.

It's a gimicky build that doesn't see nearly as much actual play as others. While it is very 5e, I'd have to say the sorceror/warlock/paladin combinations are higher on the list. For race it would have to be Vhuman and obviously a custom background.

[Sparky McDibben]

I'm curious, why is that the easy answer to you?

Because it's two totally different archetypes thrown together "to realize a concept better."

[XmonkTad]

I vote for Coffeelock (just because of the amount of time I've spent this edition talking about it) and the Thief Rogue. Earlier editions had rules about flanking for getting sneak attack, and rogues were such glass-cannons that bringing them into melee was a huge risk. Cunning action, fast hands, you really feel like a mobile precision stab-machine. I think 5e did rogues right, and the thief pretty much most of all.

[Petrocorus]

So once per day you can cast 9th level magic missile for (1d4)*11+132, then action surge to cast at 8th level for (1d4)*10+120. The action surge and curse come back on a short rest so you can still do more than that, but that's your big attack.

Just to hammer the nail, this means (1d4 +1 +11) x11 + (1d4 +1 +11) x10 = 14.5 x 21 = 304.5 Avg Dmg (or between 273 and 336) on a single target in a single turn with 100% hit chance, no saves, no resistance or immunity (except for a Helmed Horror).
A Pit Fiend has 300 HP.

[Willie the Duck]

Coffeelock. Pure jank unique to 5e.

I mean, therein lies the question -- is the most 5e thing the jank that likely gets banned (/soft banned by group withering stares), or the stuff that is less iconic but sees play.

To me, the most 5e of things would be things like bards and paladins, since -- after quite a few editions of them not working well plus 'lawful-stupid' plus 'bards are useless' memes and so on, these two classes finally seem to work right pretty much out of the gate.

[AvvyR]

I suppose builds that exploit specifically 5e mechanics can kind of fit, but I don't really associate 5e with exploits or cheese given that 3.5... exists.

I'd say warlock in general is the most 5e build, because they function completely uniquely from any other edition in a way no other class does.

[RogueJK]

Just to hammer the nail, this means (1d4 +1 +11) x11 + (1d4 +1 +11) x10 = 14.5 x 21 = 304.5 Avg Dmg (or between 273 and 336) on a single target in a single turn with 100% hit chance, no saves, no resistance or immunity (except for a Helmed Horror).


There are a handful of other creatures with Force resistance, including Amethyst Dragons of various ages as well as Lesser/Greater Star Spawn Emissaries, and the Amethyst Greatwyrm is immune to Force damage like the Helmed Horror.

And don't forget, the Nuclear Magic Missile is also negated by a 1st level spell: Shield. Or a Brooch of Shielding, a magic item that's merely Uncommon.

[Khrysaes]

There are a handful of other creatures with Force resistance, including Amethyst Dragons of various ages as well as Lesser/Greater Star Spawn Emissaries, and the Amethyst Greatwyrm is immune to Force damage like the Helmed Horror.

And don't forget, the Nuclear Magic Missile is also negated by a 1st level spell: Shield. Or a Brooch of Shielding, a magic item that's merely Uncommon.

I think helmed horror was the only one for a long while. The amethyst dragons came out with fizbans, so last year?

Yeah. Amethyst Fizbans
Some quandrix stuff in strixhaven
Two things from van richtens.
A couple things from rise of tiamat, dungeon of the mad mage, and tales from yawning portal.

[Sorinth]

I suppose builds that exploit specifically 5e mechanics can kind of fit, but I don't really associate 5e with exploits or cheese given that 3.5... exists.

I'd say warlock in general is the most 5e build, because they function completely uniquely from any other edition in a way no other class does.

Yeah for me the most 5e thing is the focus it put on Backstory as part of character creation. The most 5e build is a good character that frankly can be built half-a-dozen different ways. The topic of most broken/exploit using builds sounds more like a 3.5e concept then a 5e concept.

[KorvinStarmast]

The topic of most broken/exploit using builds sounds more like a 3.5e concept then a 5e concept. Yes. And those who import that assumption from 3.x to 5 do as much harm as good.

[animorte]

How about Wild Magic Sorcerer/Spirits Bard...

Roll for random shenanigans. Got more to add? Bring it on!

[strangebloke]

I mean, therein lies the question -- is the most 5e thing the jank that likely gets banned (/soft banned by group withering stares), or the stuff that is less iconic but sees play.

To me, the most 5e of things would be things like bards and paladins, since -- after quite a few editions of them not working well plus 'lawful-stupid' plus 'bards are useless' memes and so on, these two classes finally seem to work right pretty much out of the gate.
Well the coffee lock is picked only partially for the cheese. The other half of the question is the warlock itself. This is the first edition where warlock was a base class iirc and it's quickly become one of the most popular and highest rated classes in the game.

Coffee locks also a multiclass character, something that distinctive to this edition and 2e.

But yes overall I'd say the incestuous charisma caster crew are the real standouts here. Clerics and wizards and and fighters and druids all work but they're not all that different from what they were before. Warlocks, paladins, sorcerers, and bards all feel like brand new creations of 5e.

Yes. And those who import that assumption from 3.x to 5 do as much harm as good.

I mean, it isn't just broken like simulacrum, it's also broken specifically in a way that's only possible in 5e because of the new rest rules.

It's not really representative of real play, but neither was 3.x jank

[Rynjin]

Yeah for me the most 5e thing is the focus it put on Backstory as part of character creation. The most 5e build is a good character that frankly can be built half-a-dozen different ways. The topic of most broken/exploit using builds sounds more like a 3.5e concept then a 5e concept.

So we're back to Human Champion Fighter being the quintessential 5e "build"?

I guess we could also say that the concept of "builds" is anathema to 5e since most of your choices are made at levels 1 and 3 anyway.

[noob]

The most dnd character is an human fighter that wants to hit monsters with swords.

[Bobthewizard]

I would go with Paladin 2/ Swords Bard 18. It has a lot of 5e specific stuff. Perhaps throw in a hexblade dip because that seems very 5e.

Spellcaster dipping for armor
Paladin smites working with full caster slots
Full caster extra attack subclasses
Bards being very powerful

You could make an argument for Paladin 6/bard or sorcerer 14 so you get the paladin's aura, but you lose the high level spells. Either one is fine with me.

[KorvinStarmast]

I guess we could also say that the concept of "builds" is anathema to 5e since most of your choices are made at levels 1 and 3 anyway. Check out the guides here at GiTP, sorcadin in particular, and SorcLock. It italicized part is incorrect.
(First Sorc/Lock MC that I saw was Dyndrilliac's 1 Sorc/TomeLock X, but I don't think that you'd call that a build(as it's a dip). I tried one and it's quite good).

[Petrocorus]

Well the coffee lock is picked only partially for the cheese.
What i personally like about the Sorlock is the sheer number of cantrips. With Tome and SpellSniper, you get 11 cantrips with Sorcerer 1/ Warlock 3. I love this.



But yes overall I'd say the incestuous charisma caster crew are the real standouts here. Clerics and wizards and and fighters and druids all work but they're not all that different from what they were before. Warlocks, paladins, sorcerers, and bards all feel like brand new creations of 5e.

They were all a thing in 3.5, but you then needed a lot of tweaking and optimizing to make them work.

[RedMage125]

What i personally like about the Sorlock is the sheer number of cantrips. With Tome and SpellSniper, you get 11 cantrips with Sorcerer 1/ Warlock 3. I love this.


I count 10.
4 from sorc
2 from Warlock
3 from Tome
1 from spellsniper.

I currently have a Tomelock 3/Sorc 3, and 9 cantrips, so I had to double check, but yeah...that's 10, not 11.

Did you mean Magic Initiate?

[Quietus]

I would go with Paladin 2/ Swords Bard 18. It has a lot of 5e specific stuff. Perhaps throw in a hexblade dip because that seems very 5e.

Spellcaster dipping for armor
Paladin smites working with full caster slots
Full caster extra attack subclasses
Bards being very powerful

You could make an argument for Paladin 6/bard or sorcerer 14 so you get the paladin's aura, but you lose the high level spells. Either one is fine with me.

Sorcadin is definitely more well known, but oh man. I've played the 2/x version, with a dex-based half-elf prior to Tasha's. That character felt great, a little behind the curve in early tier2 though. The 2/x Sorcadin with the blade cantrips would have a smoother transition in those levels (bonus cantrip damage and the occasional twin/quicken), and the 6/x Sorcadin never truly experiences a dip at any stage of their progression.

[strangebloke]

What i personally like about the Sorlock is the sheer number of cantrips. With Tome and SpellSniper, you get 11 cantrips with Sorcerer 1/ Warlock 3. I love this.
Yeah, that kind of at-will magical consistently is definitely a 5e-ism. But The power of a sorcadin or palalock fits too.

They were all a thing in 3.5, but you then needed a lot of tweaking and optimizing to make them work.

Well, comparing to 3e, I'd say the druid/cleric/wizard trio is mostly the same, just toned down a lot (not enough) and overall more party-friendly. In a similar vein rogues and fighters and monks and barbarians just got stronger, but not really different. Being able to move between iterative attacks, and a lack of penalties for doing so, was a huge buff at the system level that combined with the top tiers getting brought down a lot helped the balance without much changing in the fiction of the low tiers. Bard was actually one of the more balanced 3e classes and is probably the least changed conceptually and mechanically.

Sorcerer, Warlock, and Paladin got wholly reimagined though. In Sorcerer's case its arguable the new concept wasn't that compelling, but warlock and paladin are showing up continually as the golden boys of the edition for a reason.

[Venwraek]

Artificer 1 / Wizard 19
Artificer level grants you Con saves, armor proficiencies, and magic stone.
Proceed to do normal wizard things while also using Tiny Servants (or Animated Dead if you're edgy) to pelt your enemies with magic stones from a safe distance.

There's no actual rule bending or interpretations here, its just a fundamentally strong build that can demonstrate the strengths of full casting, summoning, and low level dips in a single package, while never committing super hard to a single gimmick.

[animorte]

What i personally like about the Sorlock is the sheer number of cantrips. With Tome and SpellSniper, you get 11 cantrips with Sorcerer 1/ Warlock 3. I love this.

VHuman feat: Magic Initiate (2)
Sorcerer 1: (4)
Warlock 4: (3)
Celestial Patron: (2)
Pact of the Tome: (3)
Spellsniper: (1)

Total: 15

I also find this to be ridiculously fun.

[Petrocorus]

Did you mean Magic Initiate?
No.
I mistakenly counted the one you get with Warlock 4.



Sorcerer, Warlock, and Paladin got wholly reimagined though. In Sorcerer's case its arguable the new concept wasn't that compelling, but warlock and paladin are showing up continually as the golden boys of the edition for a reason.
I am certainly not disputing those two classes are more powerful (compared to the rest) in 5E than in 3.5.
In 3.5, weren't we used to say things like "the best paladins have no paladin levels"? It was an exaggeration of course, but many Paladin builds had only 2 or 4 Paladin levels.

What i'm saying is that the concept of those classes have not changed much. The mechanics are very different, but i don't feel the principle of the classes have changed much. At least for the Paladin.
I would concur that having less at-will abilities and having spells with weird slot progression instead does change how the Warlock feels to me.

[animorte]

I am certainly not disputing those two classes are more powerful (compared to the rest) in 5E than in 3.5.

I would concur that having less at-will abilities and having spells with weird slot progression instead does change how the Warlock feels to me.

Definitely have to say, the Warlock is SO MUCH BETTER in 5e than 3.5e...

I mean it got so little attention it's almost like it wasn't even there. I really appreciate the changes to make 5e Warlock relevant.

[Gurgeh]

Well the coffee lock is picked only partially for the cheese. The other half of the question is the warlock itself. This is the first edition where warlock was a base class iirc and it's quickly become one of the most popular and highest rated classes in the game.
The 3.5 Warlock was a base class, but it wasn't core - introduced in Complete Arcane, IIRC. 4e had the Warlock as a core class in the PHB.

But I agree that 5e has done a lot to increase the Warlock's appeal - it's always been off-beat from other casters, but the short rest recharge is a really interesting way to make that work. The patrons are very flavourful, too, which is a nice contrast to most caster subclasses just feeling like a bag of mechanics.