Crafting and Gameplay

[Notafish]

Hi,

I'll be starting a 3.5e game tonight as a player. I think everyone is building their characters using the online SRD, and we are starting at level 1 and might get up to level 10 or so. Medium-low magic, with most magic items coming off random loot tables. I'm planning on classing my barbarian into wizard at level 2 or 3 and I'd like to get some use out of the Scribe Scroll feat. The problem is is that we aren't tracking XP, just leveling up after each adventure - and the DM isn't sure how much or how best to regulate item crafting. Both he and I would like there to be some system in place so that I don't break his dungeons with a magical utility belt. Are there any good guidelines out there for low-magic crafting?

[Gruftzwerg]

I think the best solution would be to just talk it out and keep the amount of scrolls low. You shouldn't have more then 1-2 scrolls of each spell you wanna have as scroll. And not to many scrolls overall. This way the DM can still try to bait em when needed, if they could get problematic for later plot reasons. This way your party get the utility needed without any big "Overkill" potential.

Note: I hope that you didn't forget that Barbs can't read at lvl1. So you need to learn it in the game sessions and downtime. Dunno if your campaign offers the time for this and if this is a hassle for your DM at all. Just wanted to point it out, to ensure you are aware of it. Many DM don't care for such "minor" details, while other make a "big fuzz" about it. Dunno how your DM feels about these kind of things.

[Sire Pepe]

Hi Not_a_fish,

If you don't want to bother with XP costs, but still want to limit PCs ability to craft magical items, you might want to check out Pathfinder 1's guidelines on creating magic items.

Another factor that limits how many items you can craft is time! Your DM should decide in advance how much downtime PCs get between adventures. That way you can't decide to craft 1000 minor items and break the game between campaigns ;)

Cheers!

[ApologyFestival]

In instances where players have to pay gold for xp -- for example, paying an NPC spellcaster for a spell that costs the NPC xp -- there is generally a ratio of 5 gold for every 1 xp expended. That is, xp is five times more valuable than gold.

You could extrapolate this generalisation to get around paying xp costs when your GM wants to do "milestone levelling", instead of awarding xp. For every point of xp you would otherwise spend, instead pay 5 gold.

All of this adds up a magic item creator paying 70% of the item's value in gold, instead of the core rule of 50% in gold and 4% in xp.

With this house rule, creating an item yourself is just straight-up cheaper than buying it. However, it costs you both a feat and your time.

[Notafish]

Thanks for the advice so far!

Gruftzwerg, don't worry about the illiteracy feature - the DM and I talked about it and "learning to read" is actually why my guy is adventuring in the first place!

[ShurikVch]

One of possible replacements for XP cost is the "Power Components": parts of magical bests/plants/.../whatever (RAW was in the Dragon #317 and #332)
Roll a Survival check to track the necessary creature, then play the encounter: while some creatures could be persuaded to grant the necessary parts peacefully (dragons are shedding, thus - some scales are no biggie), for other you would need to fight and kill or destroy them

Oh, and about the Illiteracy: your scrolls may be written in a made-up language - nobody except you would be able to read it (at least, without meticulous deciphering), but do you care about such things?

[zlefin]

I made a system for that that you could use; it's the crafting one in my signature.

It's based off/inspired by the craft point system in the SRD; and just using the craft points as the limit on how much you get to make.
https://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/buildingCharacters/craftPoints.htm

[AnonJr]

I'll second taking a look at the Craft Points bit (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/buildingCharacters/craftPoints.htm) previously mentioned, and maybe just model it after something like the Artificer's Craft Reserve from the Eberron Campaign Setting - XP costs are paid from the "Craft Points" achieved either by level, by feat, or by both (though I'd lean towards just using the 'by level' table after an appropriate class has been taken... I've played a lot of Artificers, and that table alone is more craft points than a normal craft reserve. You've no idea the ... fun ... I could have had with that many extra points in reserve. :smallamused:).

[ShurikVch]

I'll second taking a look at the Craft Points bit (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/buildingCharacters/craftPoints.htm) previously mentioned, and maybe just model it after something like the Artificer's Craft Reserve from the Eberron Campaign Setting - XP costs are paid from the "Craft Points" achieved either by level, by feat, or by both (though I'd lean towards just using the 'by level' table after an appropriate class has been taken... I've played a lot of Artificers, and that table alone is more craft points than a normal craft reserve. You've no idea the ... fun ... I could have had with that many extra points in reserve. :smallamused:).
The problem with the Craft Points system is exactly this: points don't regenerate other than on level-ups
Thus - if you don't have Retain Essence, Cannibalize Magic Items, or a floating feat to abuse - all your crafting point would run out pretty soon: you have only 21000 points (sans feats) for the all of your pre-Epic time, and basic magical armor costs 100 points
(Let alone the fact - even with Retain Essence, you would be barred from crafting any potions, scrolls, wands, or staves: since they're all "use it - lose it" kind of items, it would mean creation of them drains your points permanently and irreparably)
Also, note: you would need to pay points even for non-magical things...

[AnonJr]

In general I'd agree, but the OP was asking about crafting in a game where they're not tracking XP, Low-Magic, and maybe as far as level 10. In those constraints, it seems an appropriate way to manage crafting - particularly since they're not tracking XP.

Push comes to shove, maybe make "Retain Essence" an Item Crafting feat obtainable at CL5.

[Blackhawk748]

I mean, you still have to pay the cost to craft them, just don't pay XP. Thats basically what Pathfinder does. SPend the time, spend the gold get your item.

[Fouredged Sword]

Yeah. It may be worth pointing out to your DM that unless crafting gets really out of hand exp is a river. A crafting character is rarely more than half a level behind the rest of the party. As you fall behind encounters are more experience, and you catch back up quickly enough. For things like scrolls I wouldn't even bother tracking exp expenses. Time is plenty enough of a limit. A character being a single encounter behind the rest of the party is just pointless bookkeeping.

You have already burned one level on a class that doesn't mesh with spellcasting. Giving your character exp free crafting for scrolls won't break the game at all. If he's worried just have a gentleman's agreement to not have more scrolls on hand than you have spell slots.