Replacement for darkvision?

[Gungor]

I'm sure this question has come up before but I wasn't successful in tracking anything down on the forum so I thought I would just ask again.

In a homebrew campaign I'm designing I want to reduce the number of races that have darkvision - particularly I don't want elves to have darkvision. What alternative features can I give to elves to replace darkvision which continues to keep it balanced with other races?

We will be sticking to the Player's Handbook rules for races (no Tasha's rules or custom lineages).

Thanks in advance!

[Sorinth]

Considering Custom Lineage gives you the choice of Darkvision or a skill, so in terms of balance you can probably safely assume that's a fair balance point.

If you want something that is sort of similar then Keen Sight (Possibly limited to dim lighting so that disadvantage is cancelled in those conditions).

[J-H]

Infravision: You can see temperature gradients to some extent. Warm-bodied enemies will be visible at a distance even in the dark, but that pit trap that's all the same temperature won't show.

[PattThe]

Just go read some AD&D monster entries.. 5e's darkvision is a video game power, one-size-fits all, and it's meant to be simplified. Never try to over-analyze a simplified mechanic.
Go back and learn what the real difference between infravision and darkvision is. See how Elf vision compares to Drow vision compares to Gnome vision compares to Dwarf vision.

[Sorinth]

Infravision: You can see temperature gradients to some extent. Warm-bodied enemies will be visible at a distance even in the dark, but that pit trap that's all the same temperature won't show.

I understand your point but it's also not very realistic either, an infrared camera/thermal imaging will show that pit trap in lots of detail. Check out images/video of any infrared camera used in aviation and there is tons of detail in it.

[No brains]

Are you saying Dark Elves would not have darkvision? To a lesser extent, Wood Elves and Sea Elves too? Their favored environments would greatly reward an ability to see in darkness, especially without giving away their location. Technically, Dark Elves already have something close with innate Dancing Lights. Drop the verbal component and you're on track for a decent replacement.

When you say 'balanced' do you mean, 'a choice that looks equally attractive to players' or 'something that fits a similar function to darkvision'? Functionally, darkvision removes disadvantage from perception checks in a relatively common circumstance. Perhaps then something that would be 'balanced' would be something else that stops a form of situational disadvantage- maybe something relating to resisting exhaustion?

Also, what is your end goal here? What do you think is gained by removing darkvision? Do you want to make stealth harder for PCs? Make stealth easier for NPCs? Is there some tonal shift you hope to accomplish? I don't think there's a real-life equivalent to lumens in the lighting system, so if you want to say dim light is too dark to read in, nothing is stopping you.

[PattThe]

Are you saying Dark Elves would not have darkvision?

Just... read an original write-up for these creatures in old school D&D.. Designers used to make reasonable explanations for powers. Since 4e was WOW-based and 5e borrows heavily we have these powers that you either have or don't have. If you want explanations, do research NOT hypotheticals.
Also. Dark elves and drow can be tremendously different things. Dark elves live on the surface, Drow don't.

[Lord Vukodlak]

Switch to 3.5 style low-light.

[Leon]

Switch to 3.5 style low-light.

Exactly, would solve a lot of the issues of things that should be able to see at night in some form or sense being as blind as the proverbial bat and keep the Darkvison for things that come from the actual dark all the time.

[Catullus64]

https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?629281-Darkvision-Replacement-Features-PEACH

Here was my attempt to make some alternate darkvision-replacement features. I stand by the Elf, Dwarf, and Gnome options as pretty good. I would probably give Half-Orcs Drow-style full darkvision + sunlight sensitivity, and give Tieflings a 1-per long rest 1 minute of full vision in any light, which penetrates magical darkness.

[False God]

Just... read an original write-up for these creatures in old school D&D.. Designers used to make reasonable explanations for powers. Since 4e was WOW-based and 5e borrows heavily we have these powers that you either have or don't have. If you want explanations, do research NOT hypotheticals.
Also. Dark elves and drow can be tremendously different things. Dark elves live on the surface, Drow don't.

What the heck does 4E game design have to do with anything? Almost all of the 5E racial writeups are trimmed down versions of their 3.5 incarnations. The "powers" ubiquitous to 4E are practically non-existent in 5E, especially in the races. The only real presence of 4E design in 5E is a much more uniform math.


I'm sure this question has come up before but I wasn't successful in tracking anything down on the forum so I thought I would just ask again.

In a homebrew campaign I'm designing I want to reduce the number of races that have darkvision - particularly I don't want elves to have darkvision. What alternative features can I give to elves to replace darkvision which continues to keep it balanced with other races?

We will be sticking to the Player's Handbook rules for races (no Tasha's rules or custom lineages).

Thanks in advance!

More specifically to the OP:

If you take darkvision away from elves (and potentially others), the remaining question would be: which races would still have it?

I agree that Darkvision is awfully plentiful, but if the end result is that basically noone has Darkvision, then elves are not comparatively disadvantaged. I'd further argue that darkvision alone does not dramatically increase the power of the races that have it, it only increases their power relative to races that don't.

[quindraco]

I'm sure this question has come up before but I wasn't successful in tracking anything down on the forum so I thought I would just ask again.

In a homebrew campaign I'm designing I want to reduce the number of races that have darkvision - particularly I don't want elves to have darkvision. What alternative features can I give to elves to replace darkvision which continues to keep it balanced with other races?

We will be sticking to the Player's Handbook rules for races (no Tasha's rules or custom lineages).

Thanks in advance!

Others have mentioned this, but Keen Sight would be appropriate (Advantage on vision-based ability checks) for everyone except Drow. Taking Darkvision away from Drow entirely fundamentally changes them so radically you'd also have to rewrite pretty much every depiction of their culture, since they fundamentally don't need to rely on light and their society is partially structured around that. But if you do take it away from Drow, definitely also take away Sunlight Sensitivity.

[Dienekes]

To fit elves' base lore. Far Sight and/or Keen Hearing might work.

There isn't really any Far Sight specific thing in 5e, but Path of the Totem Warrior Barbarian's level 6 Eagle feature might get you a good basis. I should point out, usually that feature is considered not really that great. Or at least, that section of it. The second part of that ability: no disadvantage in dim light, is considered alright. Largely because Darkvision treats darkness as dim light, and you get Disadvantage on Perception checks in dim light.

Keen Hearing is just Advantage on Perception checks that involve hearing.

[stoutstien]

I'm sure this question has come up before but I wasn't successful in tracking anything down on the forum so I thought I would just ask again.

In a homebrew campaign I'm designing I want to reduce the number of races that have darkvision - particularly I don't want elves to have darkvision. What alternative features can I give to elves to replace darkvision which continues to keep it balanced with other races?

We will be sticking to the Player's Handbook rules for races (no Tasha's rules or custom lineages).

Thanks in advance!

Assuming just the 2 PHB options.
Wood elf- replace DV with enhanced mask of wild. If they are hidden within a natural phenomena they are considered invisible for half their movement speed.

High elf- keen senses. Adv on all checks involving hearing or smell.

[Mastikator]

Infravision: You can see temperature gradients to some extent. Warm-bodied enemies will be visible at a distance even in the dark, but that pit trap that's all the same temperature won't show.

Infra-red vision on top of regular vision would give a player a great deal of information that darkvision doesn't give, for instance infrared light can penetrate through fog that blocks visible light, so it's long range blind sight. It also lets you see where people have been through their residual heat, so it's tracking. It lets you see the temperature of objects at a distance.

[Gungor]

https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?629281-Darkvision-Replacement-Features-PEACH

Here was my attempt to make some alternate darkvision-replacement features. I stand by the Elf, Dwarf, and Gnome options as pretty good. I would probably give Half-Orcs Drow-style full darkvision + sunlight sensitivity, and give Tieflings a 1-per long rest 1 minute of full vision in any light, which penetrates magical darkness.

This is great, thanks! Both for doing a better job than me of explaining why I want to reduce the number of races with darkvision, and for providing flavorful alternatives.

[Cadebrennus]

https://op1.0ps.us/original/opplanet-howto-info-page-thermalvsnv-2

The difference between "darkvision" (night vision in the U.S. Army) and thermal vision. I see darkvision as using any amount of available light (there's always something, even when you think there's not) like military-grade night vision does. As you can see from the example above, someone could indeed use the Hide action successfully versus someone with darkvision