Non-proficiency in armor and Magic Stone

[LordShade]

I think I may have come up with an interesting use case for Magic Stone.

The armor proficiency rules say "If you wear armor that you lack proficiency with, you have disadvantage on any ability check, saving throw, or Attack roll that involves Strength or Dexterity, and you can't cast Spells."

Could you put commoners (or zombies) in plate+shield, and have them throw Magic Stones produced by an Int/Wis/Cha caster, and thereby avoid the disadvantage on the attack roll?

[JackPhoenix]

Sure. Same with Shillelagh, Hexblades or Battlesmiths.

[diplomancer]

Sure. Same with Shillelagh, Hexblades or Battlesmiths.

Though Shillelagh is odd in that you can't give the staff/club to someone else; therefore, though in theory it would work, you can't get to a situation where it's possible to use it, since you can't cast it while you're in armor with which you're not proficient. Maybe with a Magical Item that's the reverse of Cast-Off Armor, and that you can don it as an action.

[Anymage]

The idea works in theory. In practice, though, two things get in it's way. First, plate is expensive and at the levels where the PCs are rich enough to casually afford it, those three commoners are likely to be dead to incidental aoe or environmental effects before they can do much of anything. Second, with a one minute duration on the stones and no ability to stockpile, I'm not seeing a magic stone equipped peasant or skeleton being that far enough ahead of a simple mercenary crossbowman to make it worthwhile. (Again level contextual. When your casting mod is +5 or higher your magic stones are a significant upgrade in a commoner's hands, but at that point you're far more effective going after objectives on your own than hanging out to resupply a bunch of commoners with slings.)

[LordShade]

Magic Stone is unique in that it's the only spell I know of that lets someone else attack using your stats (the Hexblade isn't relevant to this use case). My suspicion is that we haven't found ALL of the edge cases where this unique mechanic might be useful.

My logic here was more towards being able to get around armor nonproficiency (forget about whether it's expensive plate or cheap chain), since it's the best way to upgrade the power of an NPC by spending only gold--it was something I was thinking about in the Homunculus thread. A DM might allow a Homunculus to wear a custom-crafted Tiny suit of armor, and you could have it make attacks with Magic Stone, yielding 1d6+5 non-concentration damage without a penalized attack roll.

Point taken that hiring a mercenary crossbowman is simpler than dragging along 3 commoners, but there are friendly NPC statblocks a party might encounter that have tons of HP but really bad armor class. For example, slapping a cost-efficient suit of chain mail + shield on a zombie is a 10-point swing in its AC, improving its survivability significantly. It's going to fail Dex checks anyway and the Slam is pretty weak to begin with, so you might be much better off having it throw Magic Stones if someone in the party can spare the bonus action.

Just something to think about.

[diplomancer]

Magic Stone is unique in that it's the only spell I know of that lets someone else attack using your stats (the Hexblade isn't relevant to this use case). My suspicion is that we haven't found ALL of the edge cases where this unique mechanic might be useful.

My logic here was more towards being able to get around armor nonproficiency (forget about whether it's expensive plate or cheap chain), since it's the best way to upgrade the power of an NPC by spending only gold--it was something I was thinking about in the Homunculus thread. A DM might allow a Homunculus to wear a custom-crafted Tiny suit of armor, and you could have it make attacks with Magic Stone, yielding 1d6+5 non-concentration damage without a penalized attack roll.

Point taken that hiring a mercenary crossbowman is simpler than dragging along 3 commoners, but there are friendly NPC statblocks a party might encounter that have tons of HP but really bad armor class. For example, slapping a cost-efficient suit of chain mail + shield on a zombie is a 10-point swing in its AC, improving its survivability significantly. It's going to fail Dex checks anyway and the Slam is pretty weak to begin with, so you might be much better off having it throw Magic Stones if someone in the party can spare the bonus action.

Just something to think about.

If you want to use that tactic, remember that Magic Stone is also a touch spell, so your familiar or homunculus can hang back and cast it with its reaction and deliver it to your minions