Dealing with a cheater

[arkangel111]

So I've got a player, and she cheats her die rolls all the time. she'll 'bump' her table if the die rolls crappy, or pick the die up to "look" at it and subtly twist it to a different side. she rolls a 20 at least 3 times a session (playing every 2 weeks for almost 3 years now) while the number of times she has failed a roll could probably be counted on one hand. almost never rolls minimum damage either cause it's not just D20's she fudges. Other players are aware of it too and try to call her on her BS but still she's persistent. She's a good friend and I'd lose 2 players if she left, assuming the group would even stick together since we're all friends. It's been quite difficult to balance the combats, since she is an archer and does triple damage so usually ends up dropping 1 - 2 baddies solo while other players can barely hit the AC of the mobs. It's not a matter of optimization either 2 other players are decent at optimizing but they are honest with the dice, while a 3rd player (my wife) was optimized by me so she can deal a ton of damage when she actually hits. I only bring this up cause last night it was glaringly obvious with everyone having not sacrificed anything to the Dice Gods in awhile and more than 1 roll was a 1. I had boosted the AC so that a 15 on the Die was needed to hit by the majority of the party. I quickly had to back down on the hits to the other players cause the CR was waaay off with the AC bump. Still our cheater hit every arrow fired and got the healer to boost her damage to boot, and crit no less than 6 times as well.

Things I have tried to curb this habit, and the response:

Getting other players involved -- limited success when someone notices, I'll just have her reroll.

Talking to the player -- mostly she just denies it

Being more harsh in character (subtly) mainly I just don't pull punches with her like I will with some of the other players -- She either hasn't noticed or not connected the two events



Anyway, I know I probably won't get a great answer for my specific situation, so I am mostly just venting, but how do you deal with a cheater at your table?

[icefractal]

Talking to the player -- mostly she just denies itUnfortunately if talking has failed, no remaining options are completely risk-free.

For example, you could (assuming table configuration permits) get a die-rolling box and say that everyone need to roll in it, and rolls need to be read where they lie, not picked up. Rolls that don't meet those criteria don't count, redo it.

But this is (in addition to being somewhat of an inconvenience) a pretty blatant step that the cheater may either take as an attack or be embarrassed enough by to leave.

If the player admitted it but couldn't stop doing it, which doesn't seem to be the case, one solution would be for them to play a character who rolls as little as possible. A caster who uses buffs and/or save-or-X effects, for example - no attack rolls, no damage rolls. Saves still exist, so they'll be unfairly durable, but that's less of an issue than unfairly durable and slaying everything single-handed.

[Melayl]

Digital dice rolls? There are many free apps (mobile and computer) as well as online dice rollers. These can't be "fudged", AND record every single die result, so they can be checked.

You would have to make that the new standard for your group, though, to avoid pointing fingers at her.

Honestly, going to a communal dice box everyone needs to roll in is probably a better idea.

[Eldonauran]

I started a rule a long time ago that readily solves this issue. No one rolls any dice until I ask them to. No, you can't say "I rolled X and want to use Diplomacy." You say, "I would like to attempt a Diplomacy" and I reply with, "OK, give it a try."

How does this work in play? It slows things down a little and everyone's eyes are on the person rolling. I roll in the open during battles and do my secret rolls behind the screen when its called for. I haven't had to worry about cheating for a while. Honestly, my players roll well enough the majority of the time for me to just shrug and go along with it. Seeing the shenanigans that happen are entertaining.

[Khedrac]

One option you could consider (perhaps a variant on) is accepting it - but dividing all the damage done by the character by 3.

This won't help with them making saving throws that they should not - but that's not usually as detrimental to the party cohesion, it uses up less resources. Whilst they will still appear to do loads more damage than any other character, they won't get as many kill shots in (which is what most players I know pseudo-count - as in they will count in the short term how many kills they get, but for joking rivalry not as a real measure).

If the character asks why a mook they shot for 27 damage doesn't fall over while a similar one hit by another character falls over after taking 10 damage you can always be honest and say why, but that decision will depend more on your group.

[Rynjin]

Call her on her bull**** loudly, publicly, and heatedly, and if she still persists in doing it, shut the game down. If it's pissing you off and making the game not fun to run, there's no value in continuing.

I would also question the value of having a friend who not only cheats, but acts like such a ****ing weasel about it. If you can't trust your friend, they're not a friend.

[Fouredged Sword]

Ok. The problem here isn't that you have a player who is cheating.

Let that sink in a moment.

This is a cooperative game. There isn't an end goal. You cannot WIN dnd.

So, what is the actual problem? Is the cheating upsetting you? Is the cheating upsetting other players at the table? Is the cheating making the game less fun for you or the other players at the table? It sounds like the answer to some of those questions are yes.

THAT is the problem. Cheating in Dnd isn't, in of itself, actually a problem so long as nobody cares.

The problem isn't one of rules or methods, but an interpersonal problem between you and one of the people playing in your game. To solve that problem you can go one of two places.

You can sit that player down and go "Listen, I think you are cheating, and the fact that I think you are cheating is ruining my ability to enjoy DMing. If you are actually cheating or not is irrelevant. We need to come to some agreement that restores my trust in how rolls are being made. The alternative is that I am not enjoying DMing, and thus won't DM for a group you are in."

You can ether do this with the individual player or with your group as a whole. If you confront the group as a whole it can make things easier in some ways and harder in others. It allows you to not make this about the player who is cheating. You can just say "Hey, we are changing the way we are doing rolls to make things more fun for me. All rolls happen (Through the dice roller app / in the moment in the dice box so we can all see it happen). Take feedback, but enforce the new rule by simply not accepting rolls that violate it. The rule prevents cheating and any roll that ignores it is ignored, pass or fail. "But I rolled evasion behind my character sheet" "No you didn't. All rolls that count have to happen though the app / in the dice box"

The second way to solve this is to sit down and talk to the player and get to the root of WHY they are cheating.

Some people just really don't like the anxiety that comes with randomness in a game they are emotionally invested in. 3.5 is harsh. Maybe they can't bring themselves to emotionally invest in a character who could vanish if a 1 is rolled at the wrong time without the safety blanket of "Well, I'll just cheat if I have to."

The REASON to solve the problem this way is because people who are cheating sometimes cheat for a reason. Just solving the cheating may make the game less fun for them, and then in turn less fun for everyone. Solving the root cause is better. Sometimes it's better to just accept the cheating if you are the only one upset and can bring yourself around to not being bothered by it.

But that's a balancing act. How you prioritize your personal enjoyment over the enjoyment of someone playing with you in a cooperative game is not something people can just tell you what to do, much less when there are multiple people with different wants.

One solution for players who feel the compulsive need to cheat to save their character is to implement a sanctioned cheating system. I personally like to add fate points to my games. Each player starts off with 1. Players can use them to force success or failure on any individual roll that can succeed or fail if the die comes up a specific number. This means that each player has a safety net. Once per campaign they can take a massive risk and just pull it off if the dice disagree.

But the beauty is you hand out more fate points during play. Two things cause fate points to be handed out. The first is DM fiat. Be honest about it. You fudge rolls, sometimes to the detriment of the players. It stings a LOT less if everyone who's roll you fudged immediately gets a fate point to spend fudging their OWN roll right back at some other dramatic moment.

The second way to get fate points that you hand them out as rewards for players who do things that notably increase the enjoyment of the game for someone else. Maybe it's cool roleplaying. Maybe it's taking a dive or handing over some key loot. The actual act doesn't matter. It's about rewarding cooperative gameplay and encouraging your players to think "How can I make this game more fun for everyone else?"

[PraxisVetli]

We have a rule (from a similar experience) where 20's have to be rolled untouched, then verified.
So if a player rolls a die and it's a 20, another player has to verify before the roller can touch it.
Also leads to some 'hands UP AND THEY STAY THERE' moments, which are always fun.
That's how we handled a cheater, ymmv.

[RexDart]

One solution for players who feel the compulsive need to cheat to save their character is to implement a sanctioned cheating system. I personally like to add fate points to my games. Each player starts off with 1. Players can use them to force success or failure on any individual roll that can succeed or fail if the die comes up a specific number. This means that each player has a safety net. Once per campaign they can take a massive risk and just pull it off if the dice disagree.

But the beauty is you hand out more fate points during play. Two things cause fate points to be handed out. The first is DM fiat. Be honest about it. You fudge rolls, sometimes to the detriment of the players. It stings a LOT less if everyone who's roll you fudged immediately gets a fate point to spend fudging their OWN roll right back at some other dramatic moment.

The second way to get fate points that you hand them out as rewards for players who do things that notably increase the enjoyment of the game for someone else. Maybe it's cool roleplaying. Maybe it's taking a dive or handing over some key loot. The actual act doesn't matter. It's about rewarding cooperative gameplay and encouraging your players to think "How can I make this game more fun for everyone else?"

I think this is a good idea for various reasons - it *is* nice to have a way to "correct" things on those days when the dice are working stubbornly against you. One of my DMs uses the "Luck Point" system from a 3P handbook, the Book of Roguish Luck. Another just hands each player a "luck potion" (an actual physical object, which is neat) that can be used once per session to turn a failure into a success, with the stipulation that you have to explain why the apparent failure actually succeeded. Which encourages a bit of fun and creativity.

But....

I've encountered this type of player once in person, and read accounts of others, and they're all very similar. I don't think luck/fate points will help with this particular brand of dysfunctional player. The biggest common factor I've seen is that they never, ever admit wrongdoing or alter their behavior, even if they're literally caught in the act. The only remedy seems to be not playing with them anymore.

The one I encountered was in a different context - a baseball game where the result of an at bat is determined by the pitcher and batter each rolling a d20. Unlike D&D, it is, of course, a zero-sum game. One team wins, one team loses. But the "stakes" were low to nonexistent.

What I don't understand is why such players feel the need - it seems to be some sort of genuine psychological disorder.

[Biggus]

or pick the die up to "look" at it and subtly twist it to a different side


Every time she (or anyone) does this, it counts as a 1, no exceptions.



I would also question the value of having a friend who not only cheats, but acts like such a ****ing weasel about it. If you can't trust your friend, they're not a friend.

I think in the end this is the right answer. I used to have a friend who was a habitual cheat. I haven't spoken to them for several years, and I'm better off for it.

[Twurps]

I started a rule a long time ago that readily solves this issue. No one rolls any dice until I ask them to. No, you can't say "I rolled X and want to use Diplomacy." You say, "I would like to attempt a Diplomacy" and I reply with, "OK, give it a try."

How does this work in play? It slows things down a little and everyone's eyes are on the person rolling.

This is what we do as well. Not because it prevents cheating (which it does), but because in a die-rolling game, we're always curious about each others rolls. So it just feels natural. So much so that it isn't even a rule at our table, it's just how one plays the game. I didn't even realize other people ever do it differently (DM's with DM-screens excluded).

I don't think it slows things down either. As the middle of the table is usually reserved for the battle map, we have 2 die rolling boxes. One at each end of the table. So one is always within easy reach. Other players often help the one rolling. One person might track (just simply holding up fingers) the number of iteratives that have been rolled, the wizard makes sure his buffs/debuffs are included in the to-hit math, another might track the amount of damage already dealt, so the player rolling can just roll and do the math on the 8d6 he/she just rolled. It's very quick, and even if it isn't: We're all engaged and having fun so it doesn't really matter.

[FireJustice]

So I've got a player, and she cheats her die rolls all the time. she'll 'bump' her table if the die rolls crappy, or pick the die up to "look" at it and subtly twist it to a different side. she rolls a 20 at least 3 times a session (playing every 2 weeks for almost 3 years now) while the number of times she has failed a roll could probably be counted on one hand. almost never rolls minimum damage either cause it's not just D20's she fudges. Other players are aware of it too and try to call her on her BS but still she's persistent. She's a good friend and I'd lose 2 players if she left, assuming the group would even stick together since we're all friends. It's been quite difficult to balance the combats, since she is an archer and does triple damage so usually ends up dropping 1 - 2 baddies solo while other players can barely hit the AC of the mobs. It's not a matter of optimization either 2 other players are decent at optimizing but they are honest with the dice, while a 3rd player (my wife) was optimized by me so she can deal a ton of damage when she actually hits. I only bring this up cause last night it was glaringly obvious with everyone having not sacrificed anything to the Dice Gods in awhile and more than 1 roll was a 1. I had boosted the AC so that a 15 on the Die was needed to hit by the majority of the party. I quickly had to back down on the hits to the other players cause the CR was waaay off with the AC bump. Still our cheater hit every arrow fired and got the healer to boost her damage to boot, and crit no less than 6 times as well.

Things I have tried to curb this habit, and the response:

Getting other players involved -- limited success when someone notices, I'll just have her reroll.

Talking to the player -- mostly she just denies it

Being more harsh in character (subtly) mainly I just don't pull punches with her like I will with some of the other players -- She either hasn't noticed or not connected the two events



Anyway, I know I probably won't get a great answer for my specific situation, so I am mostly just venting, but how do you deal with a cheater at your table?


I will try another take.

Dice rolls are have no real meaning in the game. sure, it looks like the have, but the DM is the one that control. Dont even need to fudge.

You design the enemy (which ones, which CR), the conditions (ambush, frontal assault, terrain, etc), the challenge (they ran away, they fight to the deeath).
It doesn't matter if she rolled a 19, the DM is the one responsible to create the situation that calls for a dice roll in the first place

And yeah, I get why other players think its unfair (and it is, sure) that she is cheating. But it's a player problem, and good luck with that.
But dice rolling is an illusion to keep the game as "fair". You fail not because the DM wanted, but the dice. And your successful roll is absolute. the DM must bow to your greatness and accept the result. LOL, sure buddy.

Here some wisdom from someone who plays and dms for more than 20 decades.
I saw my share of cheaters, most just want to play a power fantasy, they want to succeed in the game.
Many players don't really care about being the punchbags of the story, as long they get ~20% of situations that they can win.
The great DM creates grand illusion that rolls matter. But what should matter are player decisions, in my opinion

So, don't get bothered too much.
It's frankly too easy to acomodate. Normally it's
First. low the freaking AC of all your encounters, let everybody hit most of the time. You may reduce the HP, increse the number of mooks.
If everybody can one shot the monsters, what's the matter, if she's cheating her damage?
If everybody can hit the monsters, what's the matter if she's cheating her attack rolls
also, if the system permits (some editions of d&d), use %miss chance for ranged attacks, and now there's a handcap for the archer that YOU roll
but avoid cheap shots like "surprise damage reflection" those are no good.
there are better ones, like making the damage affecting bystanders or hostages

A nice combat is about decision making, not good dice rolling. (well, everysituation is better by that)
While it's cool to epic fail because you rolled a 1, it get's old really fast. it's better to fail for bad decisions, your own fault.
That's why the deck of many cards is a random roll, not a skill roll.

in the grand scheme of things, no great story is ruined because some player enabled cheats on.

[Fouredged Sword]

Another really fun thing I did at some point was get rid if dice entirely. That would solve your cheating problem as well. You can't fudge dice if there are no dice. Now, this was a M&M game, so not quite 3.5 but it's close enough to translate the idea.

First what you do is get rid of DM dice rolls. Everything is shifted to being determined by a player roll. For example, a player attacks an enemy and they would normally roll 1d20 + their attack modifiers to see if they hit. Well, in this case you also make them roll when attacked. The monsters have a fixed attack DC, and the players would roll 1d20+ther defense modifiers (their normal AC-10) to see if they can avoid the attack. The players roll to see if they overcome enemy saves rather than enemy saves rolling against their fixed spell save DC. Basically anytime you have the player setting the DC for a thing and the enemy rolling to overcome it you flip it and the player rolls a die at the fixed DC-10 against the enemy's fixed DC of their original modifier+10.

This pushes basically every roll to the players. The DM doesn't need to roll anything.

Why is this useful? Well, now we get rid of the dice entirely.

Take a standard deck of cards and give one to each player. Red cards are 1-10. Black cards are 11-20. Black suits are criticals. Red suits are critical failures. Red aces represent a non-critical roll of 1. A black 10 represents a non-critical roll of 20. The players get a hand of 5 cards they can play in any order, revealing a card anytime they interact with something where a D20 would normally get rolled. Players play their hand in any order they want, but don't get to draw new cards until they use all the cards in their hand. Effects like AOE spells that trigger tons of d20 rolls for saves don't play from the player's hand, but rather deal from the top of their deck.

It's a ton of fun. The players sit around the table with their hands of cards looking like poker players. Dealing cards is fast and fun, especially if you have a shuffling machine and a spare deck or two so everyone always has a fresh deck ready to go once they draw their way through the one they have. I find that it also drives player engagement, with the players feeling like they are in control of their own fates.

It's also hilarious to see a player deal their hand down to that king of hearts and seeing their face realize that the next thing that hits them will crit. It's almost as cool as seeing the player roleplay out a dramatic moment knowing for a fact that they are about to throw down that jack of clubs with a ten of clubs to confirm them taking their scythe to the BBEG's face.

In M&M only a d20 is used for everything, so you still end up needing to roll things like damage if you do a 3.5 conversion to a card system. Still, you as DM can do all the bulk dice rolling with an electronic roller.

[Cortillaen]

What you do here is going to depend mainly on what your goals are. Based on what you said, I assume your preferred outcome is both the cheating stops, everyone stays at the table, and there are no hard feelings. Unfortunately, I highly doubt all three of those things can happen together. Again based on your description, the cheater sounds like someone who just wants to be the table uber (constant success, minimal failure, more effective than everyone else) and does not care what means are used to get there or how they impact you, the other players, or the game. For someone like that, any attempt to quash the cheating will result in hard feelings.

That said, you can minimize them somewhat (and insulate yourself against the inevitable charges of singling them out) by taking measures that apply to everyone equally or measures they can't see. I strongly recommend the former, and previous posters have covered the bases: rolls made before you ask for one are discarded, rolls must be made in the open where everyone can observe the outcome, rolls that are picked up before announcing the result are nat-1s (may need some tweaking on this one, like saying it has to rest for X seconds or be confirmed by another person, too), rolls that are "bumped" are nat-1s. If they resist, they are just calling attention to their cheating. Whether this will cause them to leave or not, I can't say, but there's nothing you can do to keep someone who won't play without cheating (except allowing them to cheat, of course).

[King of Nowhere]

Here some wisdom from someone who plays and dms for more than 20 decades.:smalleek::smalleek::smalleek:

i would be more interested in hearing your wisdom in how you got to live 200 years, as well as how you got to start playing rpgs 150 years before they were even invented:smallbiggrin:

[Eldonauran]

:smalleek::smalleek::smalleek:

i would be more interested in hearing your wisdom in how you got to live 200 years, as well as how you got to start playing rpgs 150 years before they were even invented:smallbiggrin:Man, we need to be more careful about slipping up and revealing our presence. Ehem, I'm sure its a typo. :smallwink:

[olskool]

Digital dice rolls? There are many free apps (mobile and computer) as well as online dice rollers. These can't be "fudged", AND record every single die result, so they can be checked.

You would have to make that the new standard for your group, though, to avoid pointing fingers at her.

Honestly, going to a communal dice box everyone needs to roll in is probably a better idea.

THIS! The communal dice box or dice tower (you can make one out of a PRINGLES CAN!) is the easiest solution.

[Gusmo]

I feel like you could treat this similarly to an over-engineered character built and played by someone with high system mastery. Fudging die rolls is just another way to increase character power, and many scenarios which are able to effectively able to engage players of different power/skill levels should be an adequate solution. Therefore it may be useful to search around for 'how to deal with an overpowered PC' threads and pull some solutions from those, too. For instance, combat encounters can be scaled to accommodate the increased damage output, accuracy, and survivability from fudged die rolls without much difficulty.

[Rynjin]

I feel like you could treat this similarly to an over-engineered character built and played by someone with high system mastery. Fudging die rolls is just another way to increase character power, and many scenarios which are able to effectively able to engage players of different power/skill levels should be an adequate solution. Therefore it may be useful to search around for 'how to deal with an overpowered PC' threads and pull some solutions from those, too. For instance, combat encounters can be scaled to accommodate the increased damage output, accuracy, and survivability from fudged die rolls without much difficulty.

Scaling combat encounters to stymie someone who's going out of their way to be an ******* isn't fair to the other people in the game. This goes for both of these scenarios mentioned (someone intentionally over-engineering a character beyond the op level of the other players, and cheating).

[Gusmo]

Scaling combat encounters to stymie someone who's going out of their way to be an ******* isn't fair to the other people in the game. This goes for both of these scenarios mentioned (someone intentionally over-engineering a character beyond the op level of the other players, and cheating).

I agree that it isn't fair. That doesn't make it impractical, and it doesn't mean it can't still be fun for everyone.

[Vossler]

Put a tablet in the middle of the table with a d20 and have everyone roll off that d20

[Saintheart]

There is no simple homebrew or rule that covers cheating, and no solution that will work that pleases everyone. And no solution that doesn't involve inconveniencing everyone other than the cheater.

Therefore - if the cheating is bothering you that much, and especially if you have ironclad evidence by way of complaints from others that it's bothering the rest of the table, the solution is as follows:

Deliver an ultimatum. The cheating stops, or the player's participation in the game does. And then follow through when the cheating doesn't stop.

All the other solutions or measures suggested in the thread, and I say this with all due respect to everyone, they're gentler, and they respect the person's feelings more ... either they won't work, or they'll just poison the game in the long run.

You're saying everyone knows the cheating is going on. If so, then everyone at your table is a moral coward because nobody is calling it out. Friends - if that's what these people are - are tactful but also honest with one another. Friends, if they can see cheating is bothering others at the table, will do something about it. You've seen this happening, you can tell it's causing grief to others, so: what are you going to do about it that stops the cheating and doesn't punish others?

Your players who are being honest will see it as a slight to them and resent the cheater if you impose an inconvenient houserule on them like "roll in this box and not otherwise". And the cheater will start to resent not getting their power fantasy so easily and do one of three things: (a) find another way to cheat; (b) leave the game, and likely poison other players against you for being an "unreasonable" or "tyrannical" or "killer" DM or (c) find a way to **** with your game while still playing.

Don't engineer encounters to attack the player specifically. That takes away your prep time and headspace to prepare interesting stuff for the whole party. This is a out-of-game issue, and in all but the most exceptional cases (of which this is not one) out of game issues are never resolved by in-game tactics, measures, or strategies.

In passing: of course your cheater doesn't admit to cheating when accused without irrefutable evidence. From Lance Armstrong down, have you ever known a cheater who has?

[Jay R]

Everyone seems to be trying to address the symptom, not the problem.

Of the ten thousand ways to cheat, misreading the dice is absolutely the easiest one to catch. You've caught her misreading the dice, but what makes you think that's the only kind of cheating she does?

Does she accurately count down her hit points?
Does she cross off spells when she uses them, or charges on a magic item, or potions, or any other resource?
Is her AC what she says it is?
How about her saving throws?
Is she stacking bonuses of the same type?
Does she add up her experience points accurately?

The actual problem is that she is being dishonest with her friends. Misreading dice doesn't alarm me nearly as much as the fact that she denies it when caught.

Talking it out with somebody doesn't work unless that person is talking to you honestly, rather than making things up, and you know that she isn't.

I don't have a solution to offer. Any solution will require knowing much more about her than I know from just this thread.

But in any case, step one is to focus on the right problem. The problem isn't dice. The problem is dishonesty.

[Eldonauran]

I don't think micromanaging every aspect of the game for the player is the answer either. Concern yourself with the dice rolls, as that is something you can do. If the player in question keeps escalating their methods of cheating despite your attempts to find a solution, then you know it is a problem with the person and that person shouldn't be trusted to play the game fairly.

[Feldar]

My response would be to first sit down with the other players quietly, one on one, and find out if they also recognize a problem and how each of them feels about it. It clearly bothers you -- if it's bothering them too, you can present a united front to the problem player.

If it's not bothering them, then you have to decide whether or not you want to continue playing with that person in your game.

There's one more thing I need to say though, in response to an earlier response:


Another really fun thing I did at some point was get rid if dice entirely.

Heretic! :smallbiggrin:

[icefractal]

Heretic! :smallbiggrin:
:smalltongue: We've actually considered offering that (a deck-style pool) as an alternative to rolling, as one of the players in our group seems to have extremely bad luck on die rolls. Not always, but pretty frequently he'll be rolling consistently low the whole game.

[Rynjin]

I don't think micromanaging every aspect of the game for the player is the answer either. Concern yourself with the dice rolls, as that is something you can do. If the player in question keeps escalating their methods of cheating despite your attempts to find a solution, then you know it is a problem with the person and that person shouldn't be trusted to play the game fairly.

The person has been caught, confronted, denied wrongdoing, and continued cheating. It is already evident that the problem is with the person.

[Eldonauran]

The person has been caught, confronted, denied wrongdoing, and continued cheating. It is already evident that the problem is with the person.Than the issue cannot be resolved without dealing with that person directly. Micromanaging their behavior just starts an escalating arms race to see if they can get away with it despite the attempts to stop it. Remove them from the table. It is not a comfortable position to be in but nothing will be improved any other way. Both parties have to act like adults in the situation and if one refuses to do so, take their toys away.

[Jervis]

So I've got a player, and she cheats her die rolls all the time. she'll 'bump' her table if the die rolls crappy, or pick the die up to "look" at it and subtly twist it to a different side. she rolls a 20 at least 3 times a session (playing every 2 weeks for almost 3 years now) while the number of times she has failed a roll could probably be counted on one hand. almost never rolls minimum damage either cause it's not just D20's she fudges. Other players are aware of it too and try to call her on her BS but still she's persistent. She's a good friend and I'd lose 2 players if she left, assuming the group would even stick together since we're all friends. It's been quite difficult to balance the combats, since she is an archer and does triple damage so usually ends up dropping 1 - 2 baddies solo while other players can barely hit the AC of the mobs. It's not a matter of optimization either 2 other players are decent at optimizing but they are honest with the dice, while a 3rd player (my wife) was optimized by me so she can deal a ton of damage when she actually hits. I only bring this up cause last night it was glaringly obvious with everyone having not sacrificed anything to the Dice Gods in awhile and more than 1 roll was a 1. I had boosted the AC so that a 15 on the Die was needed to hit by the majority of the party. I quickly had to back down on the hits to the other players cause the CR was waaay off with the AC bump. Still our cheater hit every arrow fired and got the healer to boost her damage to boot, and crit no less than 6 times as well.

Things I have tried to curb this habit, and the response:

Getting other players involved -- limited success when someone notices, I'll just have her reroll.

Talking to the player -- mostly she just denies it

Being more harsh in character (subtly) mainly I just don't pull punches with her like I will with some of the other players -- She either hasn't noticed or not connected the two events



Anyway, I know I probably won't get a great answer for my specific situation, so I am mostly just venting, but how do you deal with a cheater at your table?

hard to do in person but i personally always use a digital roller. Granted i mostly play online so its required. My recommendation is to make everyone stop using physical dice and handle everything with a roller app or something. Bonus points if its one of those quantum random number generators.

[JyP]

Being more harsh in character (subtly) mainly I just don't pull punches with her like I will with some of the other players -- She either hasn't noticed or not connected the two events
Just curious - there's no pulling punches, so she would suffer slightly more than other PCs on average (I guess it's what you are doing) and then there's an eye for an eye : for each 20 she rolls against monsters/traps/events, monsters/traps/events should also get the same number of 20s against her during one session as a rule of thumb.... Would it be more practical for you ?

[Jervis]

Oh something else I though of that’s less obvious than a dice roller. Start using a single dice tower on the table. Have a rule that picking up the dice before everyone sees the result makes that result a 1.