What should I play?

[Lorddenorstrus]

So, I'm getting a chance to take a break from DMing and actually play for once. Bloody miracle eh? Well we switched to Pathfinder as our base, with 3.5 allowed as asked. I haven't said no to much as its only been oddball things asked for when I DM.

My player plans to run the Kingmaker module for us, which I'm not familiar with.

As this is basically the filler campaign when 1 of our group calls out (fairly regular lately so this is occurring in response).

So far the group plans to make a Druid, a Monk, X (me) and 4th slot is empty due to it being said no show. So either I'm gonna have to run 2 characters, (which I've done before..) or the DM is gonna run a DMpc and try to keep em down low not in the spot light.

Anyway 1 was debating trying to make a critfisher Stalker.. or a gish of some sorts. I'll take suggestions at this point because I'm not sure what I want to play. It's.. been so long.

[Rynjin]

Kingmaker involves a lot of wilderness survival gameplay and hexploration consistently throughout the AP, and especially at the start.

If you were thinking about making two characters anyway, why not split the difference with your Druid and play another pet class? Hunters are interesting and fun to play, or you could throw down a Summoner if you're looking to be the party face (the First Worlder and Wild Caller are thematically appropriate as they summon a Fey and Plant Eidolon respectively). Having a high Cha character will be very useful later in the game, starting around book 2.

[pabelfly]

Anyway 1 was debating trying to make a critfisher Stalker.. or a gish of some sorts. I'll take suggestions at this point because I'm not sure what I want to play. It's.. been so long.

The flaw with a critfish build is that creatures can be immune to crits. I'd suggest a build that can otherwise deal with crit-immune enemies and only invest a small portion of your build resources into critting - maybe a few feats like Improved Critical and Exotic Weapon Proficiency to get a kaorti resin weapon for an easy x4 crit multiplier on your weapon of choice.

As for build, I'd either go two-weapon fighting or multiweapon fighting to get more attack rolls each turn (and thus more crits), and which one I recommend would depend on how much the group likes the smell of cheese.

[Maat Mons]

I've never looked at Path of War, so I can't give any advice on Stalker.

If you want a Charisma-based character in the party, the Cha-based full casters are Elder Mythos Cultist Cleric, Feyspeaker Druid, Oracle, Sorcerer, and Seducer Witch. Elder Mythos Cultist Cleric is probably out due to alignment restrictions, and Feyspeaker Druid is probably out to avoid overlap with the other player who's already decided on Druid. Sorcerer and Seducer Witch aren't very gishy by default, but there's probably a way to do it. I wasn't very impressed with Oracle the one time I played it, but that might have just been because of the way I built it.

If you open things up to partial casters, Bard, Sworn of the Eldest Inquisitor, Eldritch Scion Magus, Mesmerist, Omdura, Skald, and Summoner (already mentioned) are Cha-based. Bloodrager and Medium too, if you count them. Honestly, I've never been much for partial casters, so I haven't really ever looked at them, and can't comment on them.

Alternately, you could be an Intelligence-based character. Either way, you're rounding things out a little from the two Wis-based characters in the party. Unless the Druid is planning to use the Feyspeaker archetype to be Cha-based. Or the Monk is planning to use the Norkith or Scaled Fist archetype to be Cha-based. I really have no idea if Norkith Monk or Scaled Fist Monk are any good though. Then again, I'm not sure if Monk is any good to start with.

Plenty of Intelligence-based casters to choose from. Arcanist, Psychic, Sage Bloodline Sorcerer, Witch, and Wizard for the full casters. Alchemist, Chronicler of Worlds Bard, Investigator, Occultist, and Magus for the partial casters. I'm finding my Arcanist to be a blast to play, but I'm not sure how you'd make the class into a gish.

One random idea I've had kicking around is to play a Witch with the Mirror Witch archetype, so you have a face in a mirror that you chat with to prepare spells instead of a familiar, and the Seducer Witch archetype, to change your casting stat to Charisma, so you can be the fairest in the land.

Another random idea is to play a Sorcerer with the Sage Bloodline, to change your casting stat to Intelligence, for more skill points, and the Seeker archetype, to give you the Trapfinding ability as a Rogue of your Sorcerer level. Be warned though, my attempt to do something similar with Oracle went poorly. Then again, Oracle doesn't have an option to change casting stat, or much by way of directly offensive magic at low levels.

[Lorddenorstrus]

The flaw with a critfish build is that creatures can be immune to crits. I'd suggest a build that can otherwise deal with crit-immune enemies and only invest a small portion of your build resources into critting - maybe a few feats like Improved Critical and Exotic Weapon Proficiency to get a kaorti resin weapon for an easy x4 crit multiplier on your weapon of choice.

As for build, I'd either go two-weapon fighting or multiweapon fighting to get more attack rolls each turn (and thus more crits), and which one I recommend would depend on how much the group likes the smell of cheese.

I've made a Fisher before, never had issues with Crit immune creatures popping up every combat. Just here / there. And even then, I usually use Warblade as a base so I had Maneuvers to utilize vs opponents I couldn't crit into oblivion. My last fisher was a Water orc - Templated Dragonborn Wings Warblade. Had a jump in the 40s and I utilized some of the jump related stuff with dual wielded high crit range Chain Blades. It was um cheesy af. Warblades Int to crit confirmation helped a lot to. I only debated Stalker this time because I've never played a stalker before and it looked interesting to try and make a different style Crit character.

Although I might try out Summoner, we're newly converted to PF from 3.5 so a lot of the unique PF classes havent hit our table yet and Summoner is one of them. I was reading a guide on Summoners and the Mounted Combat you join the Eidolon in combat design looks appealing to me. I'm a fan of in your face type of characters. I've never managed to enjoy the play safe hide in the back type of characters.

Edit ; @ Maat I know Monk isn't super amazing. The player in question is new to D&D and just wildly trying classes out. She plays a Barbarian in the campaign I run and is enjoying running things over but wanted to try something else for this campaign. I've personally in 3.5 before managed to make some semi nasty Unarmed Characters, but I don't think any actually utilized monk as more than a dip at most? Fist of Forest, Bear Warrior was one.. Made a Troll/Mish mash unarmed melee machine in a Gestalt game I had to play 2 chars. Made a Kobold Sorc that rode the trolls back and casted support and defense spells to let the troll just um rip things to shreds. Easy way to play 2 chars lol. But uuh yeah she's SUPER new and probably won't play the Monk perfectly, neither will the Druid tbh. The druid is my fiancee and shes got 2 campaigns that only did 1-6 under her belt. So I'll have to help her once we reach higher levels.

[noce]

In my general experience, druid alone is so strong that your party won't need any other specific role.
A face would help, as well as an arcanist/UMDer for the occasional scroll use, but by any means you shouldn't force yourself to play something you wouldn't enjoy, especially if you're often DMing.
Also, being the druid such a powerhouse, I think there's no need for the fourth character, and some tables enjoy the added difficulty to face a three-players challenge.
Regarding party balance, monk and druid in the same party means the monk will be weaker than the animal companion, so you could help him playing a class capable of buffing, but hey, his choice, don't sacrifice your freedom to play what you like just to save the unredeemable monk.

[Rynjin]

Edit ; @ Maat I know Monk isn't super amazing. The player in question is new to D&D and just wildly trying classes out.

Direct them to the Unchained Monk. (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/unchained-classes/monk-unchained)

Core Monk does actually have a few unique advantages over UnMonk, but the UnMonk is MUCH more player friendly out-of-the-box. You have to really optimize and twink out a Core Monk to be powerful, but UnMonk is about on par with a Barbarian in terms of power (Barbarians are quite strong for a pure martial in PF as well) at a baseline.

The overall chassis (full BaB, d10 HD, two Good saves) is much more forgiving if you flub your build than the 3/4 BaB, d8 chassis, and the retooled Flurry (where all your Flurry attacks are at your full attack bonus) cuts down on the Flurry of Misses phenomenon considerably.

I love the Core Monk. I would never let a new player play one without at least presenting the UnMonk as an alternate option.

[Lorddenorstrus]

In my general experience, druid alone is so strong that you won't need any other specific role.
A face would help, as well as an arcanist/UMDer for the occasional scroll use, but by any means you shouldn't force yourself to play something you wouldn't enjoy, especially if you're often DMing.
Also, being the druid such a powerhouse, I think there's no need for the forth character, and some tables enjoy the added difficulty to face a three-players challenge.
Regarding player balance, monk and druid in the same party means the monk will be weaker than the animal companion, so you could help him playing a class capable of buffing, but hey, his choice, don't sacrifice your freedom to play what you like just to save the unredeemable monk.

When I read the modules description I figured most of what we fought would be Bandits inbetween city building? So that's why I debated a funsy Crit Fisher at first. Great humanoid disassembler. And I personally enjoy seeing huge numbers explode. If we weren't starting at lvl 1... I'd have tried to make a Dvati char. I saw their race recently in a post like a month ago and they've been in my head creatively for awhile trying to think of ways that would be both cool and utilized. My first thought was 1 Wields a x4 dmg scythe the 2nd has Crit fish weapons and uses that PF feat to "Hand a crit off" to an ally I bookedm arked somewhere because it sounded like a cool martial style to try.

And yeah I... love martial characters I can't play a Wizard. If I play casters 9/10 times it's a damn Cleric and I optimized them into like Boneknight in your face. Gish is the only way I've covered party caster before (and played decently, I made a pure Mailman once and um I sucked lmfao). I read online there's a **** load of downtime in this module.. So i wish I enjoyed Crafting honestly because it seems like it would be a great campaign to just craft your ass off.

[Kurald Galain]

Since you're mentioning switching to PF and gishes, you should take a look at the Magus class, the quintessential PF gish. I'm saying this because gishes in PF are fundamentally different than in 3E; meaning that you'll be able to cast while full attacking right from the beginning (instead of after numerous levels and/or prestige classes). Oh, and they're also good at critfishing. Guide is available in my sig.

Aside from that, you'll want an arcane caster just for the utility spells. Conveniently, the Magus is one. Other options I can recommend include bard or skald (and a frontliner for the 4th slot), or a blaster sorcerer (another build that is effective much earlier in PF than in 3E). HTH!

(edit) and yeah, make sure the monk is an unchained monk, and strongly suggest taking Flying Kick (i.e. pounce) as early as possible. Oh by the way, Magus gets pounce too, at level 4 :smallamused:

[Xei_Win_Toh]

Stalker seems like a perfectly cromulent option here, and if that's what your mind is set on, you probably won't have any regrets about it.
The Path of War Mystic can craft its ass off for sure.
The Path of War Medic can easily cover a party's healing needs (Druid is unlikely to do that, other than with wands). Good for a second character if you end up playing two, perhaps.
A Sorcerer-based gish would probably cover many missing roles, with or without Path of War. An Arcane Trickster-type perhaps even more, but that seems less like what you want to play.

Also, I'd recommend the Monk player take a look at Pathfinder's Unchained Monk.

[ciopo]

I really like inquisitors in pathfinder.

Possibly green faith marshal archetype, because of the possible expanded spell list to pick spell known from (in particular, haste from plain or fly from feather)

Monster tactician is strong too, with summon monster I/IX SLA minionmancy that last minute/level rather than round level, giving you a bunch of warm bodies to balance out the smaller party :) But I like keeping judgement usually

[Elder_Basilisk]

Depending on whether you run two characters or the DM adds a PC to round the party out, there are a few things that you will want to consider.

Party weaknesses. At the moment, with a druid and a monk, your party is probably doing OK in the bodies on the front line department but most likely (depending on the druid's build) rather weak in terms of ranged options. In the wilderness, you want to have some highly effective range options for when hobgoblin archers open up with longbows at three range increments away or wyverns decide to make a lunch of your animals. "I think I bought a javalin when I was first level, its on my character sheet somewhere" is not going to cut it. By default, the party will also have limited access to condition removal abilities (druid can heal but can't fully replace the cleric because restoration etc are not on the spell list) and arcane utility spells (druid can somewhat do blasting if you think you need it but it's harder to replace abilities like dimension door, haste, invisibility, etc).

So a few ways that you can address all those weaknesses:
Switch hitter or archer bard. Addresses range and arcane utility deficiencies.
Switch hitter inquisitor. Addresses range and condition removal deficiencies. Flexible teamwork feats and bane/judgment make it easier to pull off switch hitter
Archer cleric. Human cleric of Erastil is adventure path appropriate and can do archer cleric things from first level. But it's harder to be a switch hitter than it is for inquisitors. Again--addresses range and condition removal deficiencies.
Magus. Addresses the arcane utility deficiency. Also can work nicely with an aldori dueling sword, so you can take advantage of the cool campaign trait and be setting appropriate. If you wanted to go for the archer archetype, you could address the ranged deficiency too.
Wizard or sorcerer. Arcane magic can potentially address the ranged weakness but it's not a full substitute for an archer.

If it were me, I'd probably go with a magus and an inquisitor, but bard+ inquisitor or bard+archer cleric would also be a very strong combination.

[Fouredged Sword]

The most fun I have ever had playing pathfinder was playing a sadist lifeleech vitalist from the psionic classes. It's technically 3rd party from Dreamscared Press, but it's great. You are a healer who isn't just a heal bot. You focus on reaching out and pulling enemies into your collective and then draining them of HP to heal everyone else in the party, while also being an extremely good buffer for the party.

Nobody in the party ends up being squishy because you hand out temp HP like candy. Those that do get hurt, you can drain enemy HP into them to heal their wounds. You can mass buff through the collective easily and cheaply.

[Cortillaen]

If Path of War is in use, it's hard to go wrong with any of those classes. If healing is a concern (ie if the Druid is focused elsewhere), swapping in Radiant Dawn for one of your normal disciplines can help a lot.

[Lorddenorstrus]

Well, it looks like indeed I will be playing 2 characters. Now to debate the levels synergy i can achieve. Last time I did this I had a small character ride a Large character to make movement easier. PF has teamwork feats and stuff though.. there's so much to work with.

Summoner with a tricked out Eidolon that's a mount for char 2? Hmm idk there's so many options. I have to think..

[aglondier]

A switch-hitting ranger would cover a lot of bases in Kingmaker. Able to tank, and ranged dps as needed. Able to handle the wilderness exploration, and having enough skills to round out any lack from the other 2 pcs. A boar or bear as a companion would be tanky enough to complete your combat lineup.

Just my thoughts. Have fun playing.

[PraxisVetli]

that PF feat to "Hand a crit off" to an ally I bookedm arked somewhere because it sounded like a cool martial style to try.
Anybody know what feat that is?

If Path of War is in use, it's hard to go wrong with any of those classes. If healing is a concern (ie if the Druid is focused elsewhere), swapping in Radiant Dawn for one of your normal disciplines can help a lot.

I really love Radiant Dawn on my Protection Zealot. Absolutely unreal. Party is just indestructible as long as I'm still alive.

[Rynjin]

Anybody know what feat that is?

Butterfly's Sting. (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/butterfly-s-sting-critical/)

Grab your wakizashi (or other natively 18-20/x2 weapon that can be boosted to 15-20), two-weapon fight, and tell a friend to roll with a scythe. Shenanigans ensue.

[PraxisVetli]

Butterfly's Sting. (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/butterfly-s-sting-critical/)

Grab your wakizashi (or other natively 18-20/x2 weapon that can be boosted to 15-20), two-weapon fight, and tell a friend to roll with a scythe. Shenanigans ensue.

Thankee-sai

[QuadraticGish]

So, I'm getting a chance to take a break from DMing and actually play for once. Bloody miracle eh? Well we switched to Pathfinder as our base, with 3.5 allowed as asked. I haven't said no to much as its only been oddball things asked for when I DM.

My player plans to run the Kingmaker module for us, which I'm not familiar with.

As this is basically the filler campaign when 1 of our group calls out (fairly regular lately so this is occurring in response).

So far the group plans to make a Druid, a Monk, X (me) and 4th slot is empty due to it being said no show. So either I'm gonna have to run 2 characters, (which I've done before..) or the DM is gonna run a DMpc and try to keep em down low not in the spot light.

Anyway 1 was debating trying to make a critfisher Stalker.. or a gish of some sorts. I'll take suggestions at this point because I'm not sure what I want to play. It's.. been so long.

I second the suggestion of trying Magus, if not that then you could build into the Bladecaster PRC. It doesn't care what arcane caster you use so you can get away with any combination of arcane caster and PoW class. Though I'd highly recommend using one that use the same mental score. For the Initiator side, you can't really go wrong in my opinion, but I'd most recommend either Warder or Warlord for entry due to the low amount of levels you need to commit and good stuff you get for that one level. If you want to go int SAD as much as possible and don't mind a wait entering with Harbinger could be fun too. Off hand, there's some 3pp PoW content that introduces a Magus PoW archetype that can spend Magus Arcana to gain new maneuvers known and readied. If you don't mind the kind of gish, you could pick up a psionic class and use Zealot as your PoW entry class so you never lose out on PP growth. Especially since the Sleeping Goddess discipline has maneuvers you can augment with PP similar to powers.

[Cortillaen]

I really love Radiant Dawn on my Protection Zealot. Absolutely unreal. Party is just indestructible as long as I'm still alive.
Noblesse Oblige: Just Say No to death. (Also some funny interaction when you counter a death effect with it since it sets the person's HP to 1 regardless.)
I'm doing a Soul Knife (High Psionics version with the Psychic Armory & War Soul archetypes) in Mummy's Mask, and I'm debating taking a bit of Radiant Dawn since our Oracle is MIA on occasion. Not sure if there's any way to deal with conditions when they're absent, though. My main focus is Seeing/Shooting All The Things, so most of my maneuvers/stances will be Sleeping Goddess and Solar Wind.

[PraxisVetli]

Noblesse Oblige: Just Say No to death. (Also some funny interaction when you counter a death effect with it since it sets the person's HP to 1 regardless.)
I'm doing a Soul Knife (High Psionics version with the Psychic Armory & War Soul archetypes) in Mummy's Mask, and I'm debating taking a bit of Radiant Dawn since our Oracle is MIA on occasion. Not sure if there's any way to deal with conditions when they're absent, though. My main focus is Seeing/Shooting All The Things, so most of my maneuvers/stances will be Sleeping Goddess and Solar Wind.

We just hit 7th level so I'm not there yet.
But Sunstroke, ooooh boy. Been having fun with that.

[Lorddenorstrus]

I think 100% going with Summoner for 1. Having trouble between doing a Dragon esque Eidolon + a Lancer Rider. Or emulating the Fate series and making Illya + Hercules because.. i think that would **** with my DM Lol. Showing up with a kid + monstrosity that kills things for a character.

Altho now I have to do an absolute crap load of research on Summoner to figure out this class.

[Rynjin]

I think 100% going with Summoner for 1. Having trouble between doing a Dragon esque Eidolon + a Lancer Rider. Or emulating the Fate series and making Illya + Hercules because.. i think that would **** with my DM Lol. Showing up with a kid + monstrosity that kills things for a character.

Altho now I have to do an absolute crap load of research on Summoner to figure out this class.

It's less complicated than it looks.

Essentially, the Summoner is a 6 level caster akin to a Bard (though with a better spell list) who gets two types of summoning: Summon Monster (in the form of a Spell-Like Ability that is superior to the spell in duration) and the Eidolon, a "build a monster" that you can summon indefinitely.

At a base level, your Eidolon is essentially like an Animal Companion. You pick a base chassis (biped, quadruped, etc.) that determines its base stats, and it advances based on the table provided. However, every level you also get a number of Evolution Points that can be spent on Evolutions. Each Evolution has a specific point cost between 1 and 4, but besides not being able to go over your total Evolution Point limit, there are few limits on the combination of abilities you can pick.

One other important detail: when you level up, you can change ALL of your Eidolon's Evolutions, so if you're not feeling your setup one level, you can make it entirely different next level.

That's pretty much it. The most reading you'll need to do is into the Evolutions themselves, since there are a bunch of them.

[Lorddenorstrus]

It's less complicated than it looks.

Essentially, the Summoner is a 6 level caster akin to a Bard (though with a better spell list) who gets two types of summoning: Summon Monster (in the form of a Spell-Like Ability that is superior to the spell in duration) and the Eidolon, a "build a monster" that you can summon indefinitely.

At a base level, your Eidolon is essentially like an Animal Companion. You pick a base chassis (biped, quadruped, etc.) that determines its base stats, and it advances based on the table provided. However, every level you also get a number of Evolution Points that can be spent on Evolutions. Each Evolution has a specific point cost between 1 and 4, but besides not being able to go over your total Evolution Point limit, there are few limits on the combination of abilities you can pick.

One other important detail: when you level up, you can change ALL of your Eidolon's Evolutions, so if you're not feeling your setup one level, you can make it entirely different next level.

That's pretty much it. The most reading you'll need to do is into the Evolutions themselves, since there are a bunch of them.

So I've been looking around for the last few hours and oddly, it seems between Synthesist and Rider builds.. look better to me? Because frankly their spell selection doesn't seem to be one that requires Cha be Maxed out, lack of save DCs. So a 16 could get one by... an entire game? Allowing more stats to get chucked into strength or something to participate in melee. A semi switch ish style riding a mount as a Lancer, Charge Lance you + Eidolon damage. Eidolon repositions, you use a utility spell. Next round rinse repeat the charge of mass damage. Pounce Eid + you.

Dunno just, seems hard to play a 'pure caster' type character in the back round due to limited spell total. I'd have to grab a bow or something to feel acceptable not walking into melee I would think because you def cannot afford to cast every round. Or am I misreading something?

Half elf - Trade adaptability for Lance Prof.. Then trade into the 1/4 Evol point thing as well... I mean the hardest part is mount size at lvl 1.. so Undersized Mount at lvl 1 and Feat trade it at later levels? Functional I guess from first look. That's what I got for the "Dragon Rider" ish idea I had. Frankly I'm a little stumped on Other idea on how to make it functional bc RP wise it sounds hilarious if I could make it work equally as well...

[Rynjin]

Synthesist is ludicrously overrated. You go from having two full power characters to one. It's literally half as powerful as a normal Summoner.

[noob]

It's less complicated than it looks.

Essentially, the Summoner is a 6 level caster akin to a Bard (though with a better spell list) who gets two types of summoning: Summon Monster (in the form of a Spell-Like Ability that is superior to the spell in duration) and the Eidolon, a "build a monster" that you can summon indefinitely.

At a base level, your Eidolon is essentially like an Animal Companion. You pick a base chassis (biped, quadruped, etc.) that determines its base stats, and it advances based on the table provided. However, every level you also get a number of Evolution Points that can be spent on Evolutions. Each Evolution has a specific point cost between 1 and 4, but besides not being able to go over your total Evolution Point limit, there are few limits on the combination of abilities you can pick.

One other important detail: when you level up, you can change ALL of your Eidolon's Evolutions, so if you're not feeling your setup one level, you can make it entirely different next level.

That's pretty much it. The most reading you'll need to do is into the Evolutions themselves, since there are a bunch of them.

Or if you dislike the eidolon you can trade it for more uses of the summon monster sla.
Some people says it is op while I think it is pretty much worse than just playing a wizard and using the summon monster spell because with the latter you can decide to use the wizard options when needed.