The Barbarian, Unchained (PEACH)

[GalacticAxekick]

To complete the trilogy I started with my Fighter revision (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?630329-Fighter-Concept-(Inspired-by-Darkest-Dungeon)-PEACH) and Rogue revision (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?631735-Rogue-Concept-(Inspired-by-Darkest-Dungeon)-PEACH) months ago, I've begun a revision of the Barbarian! Like with the Fighter and Rogue, my goal is not to make the class more powerful, but to give the class more options in and out of combat. With the Fighter and Rogue, I did this with a double-subclass system (one for battle, one for outside battle). But with the Barbarian, I'm trying something different:
Rage works outside of combat, making it a utility feature as well as a combat buff
Rage is compatible with thrown weapons! This immediately expands what options Barbarians have
Subclasses offer a larger number of utility features, and more powerful utility features!
Rage Powers (a concept from Pathfinder) are gained at 2nd, 6th, 10th, 14th and 18th level, and function much like the Warlock's Invocations to help you customize your Barbarian!



Check it out here! (https://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/wHP8aX22f)



EDIT: I've more-or-less completed this project! But before I playtest it, I'm eager to hear your feedback! If you have time to read everything though, I want your help double-checking that every feature is balanced, comprehensible, and fun! I'm especially curious about the Stoic and the Rage Powers, which were the last parts I finished and the most dubious in my opinion!

EDIT 2: Since it seems no one has any remaining critiques, it seems like this project is complete! I can finally move from fixing old content to adding new!

I've written one last subclass: the Lycanthrope, (https://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/sA3mdxUaduvi) which of course represents someone who transforms from into half-beast hybrid during their rage. It's the most complicated subclass by far, but opens the door to many unique options in play! Check it out, and tell me what you think!

[somerandomhuman]

holy sh*t dude thats awsome!

[oogaboogagoblin]

this is f*cking lit. i kinda hate the barbarian class but id actually play this.
some of the rage powers dont make much sense (specifically leap, otherworldly leap, and tomb of levistus) and a few are kind of op (eagleye,shapechanger, etc) but that's just nitpicking.

one thing i would do is give the bloodrager a blood magic mechanic (sacrifice lets say a d12 per spell level and use a d12 to use metamagic) overall id say this makes this class way more interesting.

for the 14th lvl of stoic my idea is ignore pain when you drop to zero hit points you can choose to roll a dc 10 con save to stay conscious, on a success you dont roll death saves and can still take actions as usual, every time you get hit you reroll this save and on a fail you fall unconcious

[Kane0]

Solid work! Just some nitpicks.

I have a personal hatred of Brutal Critical taking up the space of three features when it barely functions as one

Berserker Frenzy giving adv on initiative sounds like it wouldn't function half the time as you rage on your first turn of combat

Berserker Roar & Revel should probably just be the one feature, especially with how bloodcurdling roar refers back to them

Stoic Stand Between should probably use your reaction, especially since you get more of them from Unflinching Focus

Frenzy, Trance and Bloodrage are about 90% the same, which makes them both feel a little less special. Fine if they share one or two traits between them, but they shouldn't be mostly the same IMO (note, my opinion is only worth what you think it's worth).

Stoic Immovable object wouldn't stop you being pushed/pulled by things like Infestation or Repelling Eldritch Blast, which feels to me like an oversight

Bloodrage editing your STR score temporarily is something 5e generally doesn't do, its like one of those unwritten rules not to have to recalculate things on your character sheet during combat and instead opt for temporary bonuses or extra dice (an exception being hit point drain from things like wights, and even that is the 'end result' stat rather than constitution which would be the 'source' stat).

It looks like Quell Magic ends your own Rage but also needs your rage going in order to use, so actually casting Antimagic Field uses a rage charge, your action and your bonus action so to make that less janky you could simply reword the ability to say 'you can use a rage charge to cast the spell as an action'

Tomb of Levistus looks like a copy-paste error

Leap being a straight 100' instead of scaling in some way feels a bit strange

Let Loose should probably have a level requirement, and specify that you can only cast it on yourself

Psychic Thrash should probably also have a level requirement

Wrangle reads more like a feat, having three benefits all wrapped together and putting Grappler to shame.

Given you have a bunch of rage powers oriented around being alert or extra sharp senses, may I suggest adding one that allows you to take the Search action as a bonus action

Hope this is helpful!

[GalacticAxekick]

this is f*cking lit. i kinda hate the barbarian class but id actually play this.Glad to hear!


Some of the rage powers dont make much sense (specifically leap, otherworldly leap, and tomb of levistus) and a few are kind of op (eagleye,shapechanger, etc) but that's just nitpicking. The Rage Power system is based on the Warlock's Eldritch Invocation system. I copied and pasted the latter when I created the former.

Otherworldly Leap, Shapechanger and Tomb of Levistus are Invocations that I just haven't edited yet.

Leap makes perfect sense. I don't see what you mean.

Eagleeye is a NERFED version of a Totem Barbarian feature.


one thing i would do is give the bloodrager a blood magic mechanic (sacrifice lets say a d12 per spell level and use a d12 to use metamagic) overall id say this makes this class way more interesting. I don't want to make the Bloodrager compete with the Sorcerer, so I dont want to give it the Metamagic system. You'll have to multiclass for it.


for the 14th lvl of stoic my idea is ignore pain when you drop to zero hit points you can choose to roll a dc 10 con save to stay conscious, on a success you dont roll death saves and can still take actions as usual, every time you get hit you reroll this save and on a fail you fall unconciousIt would be simpler to copy and paste the Zealot Barbarian features, which accomplish the same thing.

I might do that!


I have a personal hatred of Brutal Critical taking up the space of three features when it barely functions as oneThat's why you get Rage Powers at the same levels.


Berserker Frenzy giving adv on initiative sounds like it wouldn't function half the time as you rage on your first turn of combatBerserker Frenzy giving advantage on initiative is an incentive for Rage first and then INITIATE combat, instead of Raging after someone else initiates combat.

Berserkers are loose cannons, and so they should benefit from playing as loose cannons.


Berserker Roar & Revel should probably just be the one feature, especially with how bloodcurdling roar refers back to themRevel is separate feature because it effects ANY Frightening effect. It's a treat for anyone who multi-classes (e.g. a Cleric or Paladin's Turn Undead, a Warlock or Wizard's Cause Fear, a Battle Master's Menacing Attack)


Stoic Stand Between should probably use your reaction, especially since you get more of them from Unflinching FocusEven with Unflinching Focus, you can only take one reaction per turn. But many enemies can make multiple attacks on one turn.

I want a Stoic to be able to absorb EVERY attack directed at a nearby ally.

I want the enemy to DO SOMETHING to get past the Stoic, instead of just swinging and swinging as if the Stoic wasn't there.


Frenzy, Trance and Bloodrage are about 90% the same, which makes them both feel a little less special. Fine if they share one or two traits between them, but they shouldn't be mostly the sameIn what way do you think they should differ?

Rage Damage on Strength-based attacks has to be universal. Advantage on Strength-based checks and saves has to be universal.

I could give them different damage resistances, but I think that's a dangerous thing to mess with.


Stoic Immovable object wouldn't stop you being pushed/pulled by things like Infestation or Repelling Eldritch Blast, which feels to me like an oversightI'll write that in now!


Bloodrage editing your STR score temporarily is something 5e generally doesn't do, its like one of those unwritten rules not to have to recalculate things on your character sheet during combat and instead opt for temporary bonuses or extra dice (an exception being hit point drain from things like wights, and even that is the 'end result' stat rather than constitution which would be the 'source' stat).I'm aware that 5e doesn't do it. I think that's a missed opportunity.

Swapping Str for Cha is a very simple change that should cause very few problems at the table, all while being thematically interesting and mechanically powerful.


It looks like Quell Magic ends your own Rage but also needs your rage going in order to use, so actually casting Antimagic Field uses a rage charge, your action and your bonus action so to make that less janky you could simply reword the ability to say 'you can use a rage charge to cast the spell as an action'I considered that phrasing, but I don't want the player to spend an ADDITIONAL Rage charge when they are already raging.

How about "As an action when you are not Raging, you can expend one of your daily rages and cast Antimagic Field. As an action when you are Raging, you can end your rage and cast Antimagic Field"?


Tomb of Levistus looks like a copy-paste errorIt is a copy-paste error.


Leap being a straight 100' instead of scaling in some way feels a bit strangeYeah, it should scale with your speed (aka the maximum height of your jump) or something. Since you can Dash and bonus action Dash to jump 3x your speed, maybe Leap should protect you from a fall up to 3x your speed in height.


Let Loose should probably have a level requirement, and specify that you can only cast it on yourselfAgreed! I'll edit!


Psychic Thrash should probably also have a level requirementAgreed!


Wrangle reads more like a feat, having three benefits all wrapped together and putting Grappler to shame.It should put Grappler to shame. Grappler sucks.


Given you have a bunch of rage powers oriented around being alert or extra sharp senses, may I suggest adding one that allows you to take the Search action as a bonus actionReasonable!

[Baine]

Nice to see my favorite class getting a great revision! I especially love Psychic Thrash.

Is there a reason you don't just have Rage as a regular Barbarian power, and then expand on it in the subclasses? 'Cause the last three points are the same between the three of them.

EDIT: Also, for the Stoic's "Unstoppable Force", maybe something like a 30 foot charge attack, dex or maybe str save for half damage and to avoid getting knocked prone and/or 10 ft. back? Just spit balling.

[GalacticAxekick]

Nice to see my favorite class getting a great revision! I especially love Psychic Thrash.Glad to hear! I'm really proud of Psychic Thrash in particular.


Is there a reason you don't just have Rage as a regular Barbarian power, and then expand on it in the subclasses? 'Cause the last three points are the same between the three of them.Page structure! If I made Rage a class feature then the class features would pour off the 1st page.

I also think its handy to have all the effects of your rage in one place.

So overall, you could say "presentation".


EDIT: Also, for the Stoic's "Unstoppable Force", maybe something like a 30 foot charge attack, dex or maybe str save for half damage and to avoid getting knocked prone and/or 10 ft. back? Just spit balling.Actually, I'm trying to AVOID combat features for the Stoic! Right now it has nothing but combat features!

If the Berserker dominates social situations with its frightening, charming, stunning and commanding Roar, what non-combat situations should the Stoic dominate, and how?

I think the Stoic should have a theme of CLARITY and ALERTNESS. Like a Terminator scanning the scene, sizing up the enemy and simulating scenarios. But I dont know how to distill that into features.

Can you help me out?

(As a side note, knocking enemies around with attacks is a good idea! But it sounds like a Rage Power to me. This is because all three Paths should be capable of it)

[Yakk]

* Reckless attack makes a 2 level dip too good for a Rogue.
* It works with SS+XBE. That seems strange don't you think?
* Your 2nd level is too front loaded. Reckless was already a top-tier L 2 feature; you are replacing Uncanny Dodge (an ok ability) with a pile of stuff.
* Refactor rage; lots of repeated text for it in each path.
* Brutal Critical remains poor signal (effect size) to noise (rules/character sheet text)
* Mechanics for Rage Powers lack unity. "Take it repeatedly" is a sucky mechanic. Many of them are unrelated to Rage.
* "Replace Strength with Charisma" is a wonky mechanic. I dislike it here.
* 1/3 spellcasters appear at level 3 for a reason. The MC rules sort of break down with your 1/3 spellcaster starting at level 2.

[GalacticAxekick]

Thanks for your input, Yakk!


* Reckless attack makes a 2 level dip too good for a Rogue.Reckless Attack has always been at 2nd level. Has the Barbarian dip always been too good for a Rogue?


* It works with SS+XBE. That seems strange don't you think?What works with Sharpshooter and Crossbow Expert? Reckless Attack certainly doesn't.


* Your 2nd level is too front loaded. Reckless was already a top-tier L 2 feature; you are replacing Uncanny Dodge (an ok ability) with a pile of stuff.Fair enough! I could move the first Rage Power to 2nd level and move the first path feature to 3rd level.


* Refactor rage; lots of repeated text for it in each path.I don't understand the problem here. Do you want every path to have completely unique Rage effects? Or do you want all of the universal Rage effects in one place, and each path's unique Rage effects in their description?

The former is a legitimate mechanics issue, but I don't see a good reason to change the two common effects (advantage on Strength checks/saves + resistance to bludgeoning/piercing/slashing). Note that every other effect varies from path to path.

The latter is purely a presentation issue, and I personally think it's best if all the information for your path is in one place, even if that means two lines are repeated.


* Brutal Critical remains poor signal (effect size) to noise (rules/character sheet text)I agree! I'd happily scrap it if people don't want it.


* Mechanics for Rage Powers lack unity. "Take it repeatedly" is a sucky mechanic. Many of them are unrelated to Rage.I agree! The Rage Powers are EXPLICITLY incomplete, full of spitballed ideas. I said in the original post that I am asking for YOUR ideas on what the Rage Powers should be.

So I ask again, what kind of Rage Powers do you think would be suitable?


* "Replace Strength with Charisma" is a wonky mechanic. I dislike it here.The goal is to have a Barbarian-Caster who uses his casting stat for combat during Rage: somebody frail of body who relies totally on the powers of their mind and magic, even to throw a punch.

Can you think of a simpler mechanic than "use your magic modifier for the physical attack/check/save"?


* 1/3 spellcasters appear at level 3 for a reason. The MC rules sort of break down with your 1/3 spellcaster starting at level 2.Then why do 1/2 casters like Paladins and Rangers get their spells at level 2? Do they break multiclassing rules?

I think non-casters get spellcasting subclasses at 3rd level not "for a reason", but because that's when they happen to get subclasses in general.

EDIT: But I digress. You commented that 2nd level is too frontloaded, so I agreed to push the subclasses to 3rd level and bring the Rage Powers down to 2nd level. That solves your 2nd level casting issue.

EDIT 2: In addition, I really need help completing the Stoic Path! I want to give it utility features that work outside of combat, similar to how the Berserker's Roar serves a variety of social purposes! Do you have any ideas?

[Yakk]

Thanks for your input, Yakk!

Reckless Attack has always been at 2nd level. Has the Barbarian dip always been too good for a Rogue?
In order to get baseline Reckless Attack to work for a Barbarian/Rogue, you need to use a finesse weapon with strength attacks, and it cannot be a ranged weapon.

With your changes, a 13 strength Rogue can dip 2 levels of Barbarian and get auto-advantage on all finesse melee attacks that still use dexterity.

What works with Sharpshooter and Crossbow Expert? Reckless Attack certainly doesn't.
Ah, I missed the melee on the *second* mention of attack; the first one says "first attack" then "all melee attacks".


Fair enough! I could move the first Rage Power to 2nd level and move the first path feature to 3rd level.
If you now align Paths with baseline barbarian, you can use existing Barbarian subclasses.

I don't understand the problem here. Do you want every path to have completely unique Rage effects? Or do you want all of the universal Rage effects in one place, and each path's unique Rage effects in their description?

The former is a legitimate mechanics issue, but I don't see a good reason to change the two common effects (advantage on Strength checks/saves + resistance to bludgeoning/piercing/slashing). Note that every other effect varies from path to path.
I'm saying in the core rules, you have:

As a bonus action you can rage. Rage ends after 1 minute or if you are knocked unconscious, or you can end it as a bonus action. While raging:
* You gain advantage on Strength checks and saving throws
* You gain a +2 bonus to the damage rolls of your attacks using Strength. This bonus increases as shown in the Rage Damage column of the Barbarian table.
* When you aren't wearing heavy armor, you gain resistance to bludgeoning, piercing and slashing damage.
Once you have raged a number of times [...]

Then Berserker gets Frenzy:
Fenzied Rage:
When you Rage you have advantage on initiative rolls.

Stoic Rage:
When you Rage you ignore difficult terrain, and can move through the space of hostile creatures.

Bloodrage:
When you Rage, your Strength score grows to match your Charisma score, and your Rage is ended if you enter an antimagic field.

This makes the core Rage mechanic clear, and just modifies it. Without this wording, people who are picking subclasses have to do a manual difference, and when doing so have to look out for minor wording changes.

As a bonus, this also means that the core class (Barbarian) functions without a subclass, which is true of most (every?) 5e classes.

I mean, I missed the antimagic field line as I was reading over Bloodrage. It was in the middle of boilerplate I've read 3 times before.


I agree! I'd happily scrap it if people don't want it.
I'd think about making it a Rage Power and scale it up a bit.

Both
19-20 crit range and +[W] on critical is a solid feature. I would also throw in "a hit where you roll doubles from advantage", because I find that fun.
+2[W] on critical is a solid feature.
and they are technically independent.


I agree! The Rage Powers are EXPLICITLY incomplete, full of spitballed ideas. I said in the original post that I am asking for YOUR ideas on what the Rage Powers should be.

I've spitballed "Talent" systems for non-magical D&D characters. I stole the spell level system (but called them talent levels).

As "changing your talents by reading a book" and "daily uses" don't make sense, Talents become "Talents known" (like a sorcerer/bard), and having a Talent gives you that feature forever.

(One of the very first "thief"s in OD&D way back before there was one published used a similar system as a fun aside).

Some might even refresh on a short or long rest, or have sort/long rest boosts.

4 levels of talents, that correspond to T1/T2/T3/T4 characters, could work. You could even use the 1/3 caster progression for how many Talents a given PC has.

So a level 15 Barbarian would have 4 1st level Talents, 3 2nd level Talents and 2 3rd level Talents.

Furious Strength + Level 1 talent
When you are raging, you have advantage on strength checks and strength saving throws.

Unstoppable + Level 2 talent
Your rage does not end when you are unconscious. When raging, you have advantage on death saving throws, and if you take damage you can make a death saving throw instead of automatically suffering a failure. (If the damage is from a critical hit, you suffer 1 failure and make 1 saving throw).

Whirling Dervish + Level 1 talent
When you make a reckless melee attack with a finesse weapon, you can sacrifice your proficiency bonus to hit to deal an additional twice proficiency bonus to damage.

Danger sense + Level 1 talent
You have advantage on dexterity saving throws while not blinded, deafened or incapacitated.

Reckless Critical + Level 3 talent
When you make a reckless attack, you score a critical hit on a roll of 19-20 or if your attack dice roll the same value and hit. If you score a critical hit while making a reckless attack, you deal an extra weapon damage die.

Brutal Critical + Level 4 talent
When you score a critical hit, you deal an extra 3 weapon damage dice

Indomitable Might + Level 4 talent
When you make a strength or constitution check or saving throw, if the result of your d20 roll is less than your attribute, you can replace it with your attribute.

Relentless Rage + Level 3 talent
(class ability)

Feral Insinct + Level 2 talent
(class ability)

Fast Movement + Level 1 talent
(class ability)

Aspect of the Beast + Level 2 talent
When you enter Rage, you can take on the aspect of a Beast. Pick a beast up to CR 2; you gain temporary HP equal to 1/2 of that creatures HP, proficiency in any skill that beast is proficient in, and can replace your strength or dexterity/AC with that creature's Strength or Dexterity. In addition, you gain that beasts natural weapons, and can use its multiattack feature if it has one. When your rage ends, you take damage equal to 1/2 of that creature's HP.

You can do this once before completing a short rest.

At higher levels: The CR of the beast you can claim the aspect of increases by 1 for every higher level Talent you use this.


So I ask again, what kind of Rage Powers do you think would be suitable?
See above. Note that "spell slots of a 1/3 caster" might be too many.

It is also beefier than what you probably want.


The goal is to have a Barbarian-Caster who uses his casting stat for combat during Rage: somebody frail of body who relies totally on the powers of their mind and magic, even to throw a punch.
The problem here is that this occurs at level 2 (or 3), not at level 1. You have a build that is non-viable at level 1 (or optimally not viable), and doesn't fix the MCing requirements of the class.


What more, the Barbarian is less powerful but still capable when not raging. A 8 strength version of this ... isn't capable when not raging.


Can you think of a simpler mechanic than "use your magic modifier for the physical attack/check/save"?


Then why do 1/2 casters like Paladins and Rangers get their spells at level 2? Do they break multiclassing rules?
1/2 * 2 = 1. 1/3 * 2 = 2/3, rounded down to 0.

If you are single classed, your total spellcasting level for half casters is 1/2 times your class level, rounded up. If multiclassed, it rounds down.

Subclass casting is 1/3 of your class level; rounded up if single class, down if multiclassed.

Both AT/EK get their spells at level 3, so 1/3 * 3 = 1, which rounds to 1 instead of to 0.

[GalacticAxekick]

In order to get baseline Reckless Attack to work for a Barbarian/Rogue, you need to use a finesse weapon with strength attacks, and it cannot be a ranged weapon.

With your changes, a 13 strength Rogue can dip 2 levels of Barbarian and get auto-advantage on all finesse melee attacks that still use dexterity.Right! I'll return it to Strength only.


If you now align Paths with baseline barbarian, you can use existing Barbarian subclasses.I dont like the existing subclasses. Most of them rely on magic, and the few that dont have horribly limited options (both in and out of combat). My goal with my Barbarian, Fighter and Rogue projects is to expand what options a player has in and out of combat without magic. The Bloodrager is the only magical option included in the project, and only because I love the Charisma-as-Strength/Incredible Hulk concept so much.


I'm saying in the core rules, you have:[...] Then the Berserker gets Frenzy [...] This makes the core Rage mechanic clear, and just modifies it. Without this wording, people who are picking subclasses have to do a manual difference, and when doing so have to look out for minor wording changes.Right. This is the presentation thing I described in my last post. I'll do it your way, since you're the second person to request it.


I'd think about making it a Rage Power and scale it up a bit.I've made it s Rage Power. Now to scale it up.


I would also throw in "a hit where you roll doubles from advantage", because I find that fun. [...]

Reckless Critical + Level 3 talent
When you make a reckless attack, you score a critical hit on a roll of 19-20 or if your attack dice roll the same value and hit. If you score a critical hit while making a reckless attack, you deal an extra weapon damage die.I see what you mean! I see effect-noise issues here similar to what you described earlier (a very precise and obscure condition for a very small effect), so I'm not really a fan. I'll run it by my players and see what they think.


I've spitballed "Talent" systems for non-magical D&D characters. I stole the spell level system (but called them talent levels). [...] 4 levels of talents, that correspond to T1/T2/T3/T4 characters, could work. Sounds good! I'll probably lean more on Invocations than Spells as a model for the Rage Power system, but giving them clear tiers is a good idea! Your Tier 1 will be "without prerequisites". Your Tier 2 will be "prerequisite: 5th level". Your Tier 3 will be "prerequisite: 11th level" and your Tier 4 will be "prerequisite: 17th level" or something like that.



Furious Strength [...] Danger Sense [...] Fast Movement [...] Feral Insinct [...] Brutal Critical [...] Relentless Rage [...] Indomitable MightI'm going to gloss over the repackaged class features. Nothing to review here, from a perspective of expanding the Barbarian.


Unstoppable + Level 2 talent
Your rage does not end when you are unconscious. When raging, you have advantage on death saving throws, and if you take damage you can make a death saving throw instead of automatically suffering a failure. (If the damage is from a critical hit, you suffer 1 failure and make 1 saving throw).This is certainly useful! But I'm not really interested in buffs to damage or durability. The goal of my project, again is to increase the Barbarian's options in and out of combat. Buffing, debuffing, area control, healing, new ways to move, new ways to perceive, etc.


Whirling Dervish + Level 1 talent
When you make a reckless melee attack with a finesse weapon, you can sacrifice your proficiency bonus to hit to deal an additional twice proficiency bonus to damage.Again, I'm not really interested in buffs to damage or durability. If the Barbarian is going to get damage-dealing effects, they should at least be radically different from the weapon attacks the Barbarian is already making.

That was my aim with Booming Roar, for example: a thunder-damage-dealing area effect that rides on a Constitution save as an alternative to the Barbarian's bludgeoning/piercing/slashing single-target effects that ride on attack rolls.


Aspect of the Beast + Level 2 talent
When you enter Rage, you can take on the aspect of a Beast. Pick a beast up to CR 2; you gain temporary HP equal to 1/2 of that creatures HP, proficiency in any skill that beast is proficient in, and can replace your strength or dexterity/AC with that creature's Strength or Dexterity. In addition, you gain that beasts natural weapons, and can use its multiattack feature if it has one. When your rage ends, you take damage equal to 1/2 of that creature's HP.

You can do this once before completing a short rest.

At higher levels: The CR of the beast you can claim the aspect of increases by 1 for every higher level Talent you use this.I like this thematically, but mechanically you've focused once again on damage (Strength, natural weapons, multiattack) and durability (temporary HP, Dexterity, AC).

The skills stand out as a utility, but between the very narrow range of skills beasts possess and the limited effects of skills in general, it's nowhere near the level of option expansion I'm going for.

I'll try to write a version of this that focuses on speeds (climbing, swimming, burrowing), senses (darkvision, blindsight) and features. Natural weapons are also cool, insofar as they do something besides deal damage (grapple, knock prone, poison, etc).


The problem here is that this occurs at level 2 (or 3), not at level 1. You have a build that is non-viable at level 1 (or optimally not viable) [...] The Barbarian is less powerful but still capable when not raging. A 8 strength version of this ... isn't capable when not raging. Good point! So for balance reasons, the Bloodrager needs a 1st level feature that still benefits it when it is not raging. But for thematic reasons, the Bloodrager cannot be a powerful martial force without Rage.

The simple solution would be to give the Bloodrager cantrips at 1st level, and to let him cast them when he isn't raging. But that's more magical power than I'd like to give him so early.

I'll need to brainstorm here, and I'd appreciate help.

[Kane0]

While under the effects of rage or any spell, the bloodrager can use their charisma instead of their strength for attacks and saves?

That way an ally giving the barbarian a buff like bless or gift of alacrity triggers it, as does an enemy trying to debuff them with magic, both of which take the pressure off the barbarian needing to keep using rages to maintain effectiveness should they choose to dump str.

[Yakk]

Well, one thing I've done to get rid of "charisma replaces X" is "you can add 1/2 of your charisma bonus (rounded up) to your attack and damage when you make a melee weapon attack using strength. If the weapon already has a bonus to attack rolls, instead add only +1."

This makes charisma useful, but doesn't make strength useless. (In fact, strength is better than charisma, but you'll want charisma).

At low levels, Str 14/Cha 16 becomes +4 to hit/+4 to damage (solid). At cap, it is +8/+8 (as good as a +3 weapon), but if you get a +3 weapon it becomes +9/+11 (which doesn't get a crazy-accurate as if it stacked).

Making it only work on strength based attacks means it doesn't stack with Hexblade (etc).

[GalacticAxekick]

Well, one thing I've done to get rid of "charisma replaces X" is "you can add 1/2 of your charisma bonus (rounded up) to your attack and damage when you make a melee weapon attack using strength. If the weapon already has a bonus to attack rolls, instead add only +1."I'm not looking for a way to get rid of Cha replaces X. I'm looking for a way to support it, by giving the Bloodrager something to do while not raging.


This makes charisma useful, but doesn't make strength useless. (In fact, strength is better than charisma, but you'll want charisma).I really would like Strength to be useless. Or at the very least, Charisma better than Strength. Again, because the theme is "weakling who magically Hulks out"


While under the effects of rage or any spell, the bloodrager can use their charisma instead of their strength for attacks and saves?

That way an ally giving the barbarian a buff like bless or gift of alacrity triggers it, as does an enemy trying to debuff them with magic, both of which take the pressure off the barbarian needing to keep using rages to maintain effectiveness should they choose to dump str.That's a clever approach! I'll consider it! Though I might edit it so it's less dependent on party composition. Maybe by giving the Bloodrager a single carefully chosen cantrip it can cast on itself. I dunno.

EDIT: It just occurred to me that when not Raging, the Bloodrager can simply use Dexterity instead of Strength.

1st Level Human Bloodrager
27 point buy
9 Str, 16 Dex, 14 Con, 10 Int, 12 Wis, 16 Cha

Without Rage, 15 AC from Unarmored Defense
+5 to hit and +3 damage with finesse and ranged weapons.

While raging, +5 to hit and +5 damage with finesse and melee weapons.

This completely solves the alleged issue of the Bloodrager being too weak without Rage. Theres no need to modify or add to its 1st level features.

[GalacticAxekick]

If you're both satisfied that using Dex when not raging keeps the Bloodrager viable, I'll ask once again that you help me with the Stoic and the Rage Powers

In both cases, I need features that give the Barbarian a role outside combat. Social interaction, manipulating or exploring the environment, scouting, etc.

And for the Rage Powers in particular, I'd also appreciate features that give the Barbarian new options in combat. Not bonuses to weapon attacks or passive defenses, but truly new options.

[Yakk]

A charisma-based caster who can go berserk and replace their strength is a sorcerer subclass.

A strength-based combatant who can cast charisma-based spells and use them during rage is a barbarian subclass.

[GalacticAxekick]

A charisma-based caster who can go berserk and replace their strength is a sorcerer subclass.

A strength-based combatant who can cast charisma-based spells and use them during rage is a barbarian subclass.Thematically, I agree! The Bloodrager is a type of Sorcerer in the game's world. The description even says "As a bloodrager, you are fortified by sorcerous magic rushing through your veins."

But mechanically, the Sorcerer is completely unfit to represent someone who has little-to-no access to magic besides turning it into raw strength, while the Barbarian is mechanically perfect to represent this. For this reason, I'm going with the Barbarian. This isn't up for debate.

If you aren't interested in helping me with the Stoic or the Rage Powers then I have nothing left to ask of you.

[Baine]

There was a thread a while back that had some good ones: https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?637050-Mighty-Maneuvers-of-Mettle!-Barbarian-Maneuver-Jam

[GalacticAxekick]

There was a thread a while back that had some good ones: https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?637050-Mighty-Maneuvers-of-Mettle!-Barbarian-Maneuver-JamThanks! I'm reviewing every Mighty Maneuver from that thread and writting a simple Rage Power based on each! I've also included a simple rating (from 1 to 5 stars) based on my satisfaction with the Rage Power, and a brief writeup on my reasoning.

EDIT: Done! A few nice ideas, though a lot of stuff I had already come up with.

When you hit a creature with a thrown weapon attack, you can force that creature to make a Strength saving throw (DC = 8 + your proficiency bonus + your Strength modifier). On a failed save, you push your target up to 10 feet away from you or knock it prone.

This power gives the Barbarian great battlefield control options, such as moving enemies around, nerfing them, and knocking flying enemies out of the air! But I'm concerned that it's too powerful.

When you are grappling a creature of your size or smaller, you can treat that creature as an improvised melee weapon with the thrown (15/30) property. When you hit a target with the creature and your attack roll would hit the creature's AC as well, both the target and the creature damage.

This power is fun on a thematic level. Being able to deal small damage to two creatures at once isn't very different from dealing big damage to one creature, but it's a handy option if you want to use a durable creature as a club to beat down its frail minions. The real kicker here, I think, is the power to throw a creature 30 feet!

When a creature makes a melee attack against you, you can use your reaction to allow that attack to hit and to make a melee weapon attack against that creature.

This power doesn't do anything to expand the Barbarian's role in combat. It just gives you more opportunities to deal damage.

The moment that you are knocked prone, you can use your reaction to stand up.

This has nothing to do with the Barbarian thematically and doesn't expand the Barbarian's role. It's just a buff.

When you hit a creature with a melee weapon attack, you can force that creature to make a Strength saving throw (DC = 8 + your proficiency bonus + your Strength modifier). On a failed save, you push your target up to 10 feet away from you or knock it prone.

Like Mighty Toss, this power gives the Barbarian some handy area control options. But having a chance to knock enemies prone on every hit is very powerful. I would probably remove the Strength save and remove the option to knock prone, so it's simply an automatic push on hit.

As an action, you can hold your weapon out and begin to spin in menacing circles, like a dervish of destruction. You can make one melee weapon attack against any number of targets within your reach on this turn.

Alternatively, you can begin whirling at the end of your turn, and continue whirling until the start of your next turn. In this case, you can make a melee weapon attack against any creature within your reach at the end of your turn, and any creature who enters your reach before the start of your next turn.

This power is too strong to come before Extra Attack, but serves as a good alternative to the focused damage of Extra Attack once you have it. It lets you play an "blaster" role similar to spells like Fireball, which deal modest damage to a large number of targets. And it lets you play an area control role similar to spells like Wall of Flame.

As an bonus action, you can speak or perform a threat to any creature who can see or hear you within 60 feet. Your target must succeed on a Charisma saving throw (DC = 8 + your proficiency bonus + your Charisma modifier) or be frightened of you for 1 minute or until it takes damage. Once you have used your Roar on a target, that target becomes immune to your Roar until it completes a long rest.

This is basically an alternative to the Roar I wrote for my Berserker. While it affects a single target instead of a bunch, it costs a bonus action instead of an action. Each round, you can frighten one enemy and more or less remove them from the battle while you deal with someone else.

I personally think it's more fun to frighten a swathe of enemies in one go, sacrificing one turn early on to make a dramatic change in the battle. This way, frightening your foes is a choice you make instead of attacking, and not an effect you benefit from while you attack.

When you fail an Intelligence, Wisdom or Charisma saving throw, you can use your reaction to add your Rage Damage to your save, potentially causing you to succeed instead.

This is a less powerful but more broad version of Mindless Rage, while is okay on its own, but redundant in combination. It's also a pure buff, rather than a new option

When you are reduced to 0 hit points, you can expend one of your daily Rages to fall to 1 hit point instead. If you were not raging already, you begin raging.

Nothing but durability here. While thematically appropriate, it's not the kind of utility I'm looking for

You can use your bonus action to free yourself, a creature that you touch, or an object that you touch from nonmagical restraints such as manacles or a creature that has it grappled.

Likewise, when a spell and other magical effect has either reduced your speed or caused you to be paralyzed or restrained, you can use your bonus action to make suspend that effect for the duration of your rage.

I had the same idea! And so naturally I like this power quite a bit. It's 100% utility, useful in combat and exploration alike!

You can move through any barrier consisting of up to 3 feet of wood, 1 foot of stone, or 1 inch of common metal as if it were not there.

In addition, your attacks using Strength do double damage to objects and structures.

Another ideas I already had, so naturally one I like a fair bit. 100% pure utility, useful mostly in exploration but also to navigate the battlefield in creative ways

When you hit a creature with a melee weapon, you can choose not to deal damage, but instead to force the creature to make a Constitution saving throw (DC = 8 + any modifiers you would add to your attack roll). On a failed save, your target is stunned until the start of your next turn or until it takes any damage.

Stunning Strike for free is VERY strong! But it deals 0 damage, and ends early if the target takes damage. A cool idea, but balanced?

When you take the Attack action or otherwise make an unarmed strike on your turn, you can choose to target yourself. You hit automatically, and in addition to taking damage, you end any effects which are causing you to be charmed or frightened.

This is a weaker version of Mindless Rage, which accomplishes the same thing while spending your attacks and dealing damage to yourself

You can jump as far or as high as you have movement remaining. In addition, you do not take damage when you fall from a height less than 3 times your speed.

Another power I had come up with! Pure utility.

When a creature misses you with a melee weapon attack, you can use your reaction to attempt to grapple that creature. On a success, you can choose not to grapple the creature directly, but instead to grab hold of its weapon. In this case, the creature can end the grapple simply by releasing its weapon.

This power is more of a buff than a new option. It's just a free opportunity to grapple. But I like the idea of grabbing an enemy weapon and potentially disarming them.

When you grapple a creature of your size or one size smaller, you treat it as a source of 1/2 cover. In addition, you can use such a creature to cushion your fall from any height, causing it to take the falling damage in your place.

Though inspired by the spinning piledriver maneuver, this would more aptly be named Human Shield. As handy as this is, it seems less like a Barbarian thing and more like something a Rogue would do.

You cannot be knocked prone or forcibly moved, except by effects that lift you off the ground or teleport you instantaneously.

Handy, but basically a pure buff.

You can use your action to threaten any number of creatures that can hear you within a 15 foot radius or a 30 foot cone (your choice).

Each target must succeed on a Charisma saving throw (DC = 8 + your proficiency bonus + your Charisma modifier) or be frightened of you for 1 minute or until it takes damage. Once you have used your Roar on a target, that target becomes immune to your Roar until it completes a long rest.

Another power I had independently cone up with, in the form of Roar. Naturally, one I like quite a bit, but also one I want reserved for the Berserker

[GalacticAxekick]

I've more-or-less completed this project! But before I playtest it, I'm eager to hear your feedback! If you have time to read everything though, I want your help double-checking that every feature is balanced, comprehensible, and fun! I'm especially curious about the Stoic and the Rage Powers, which were the last parts I finished and the most dubious in my opinion!

Once again, you can see the project here (https://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/wHP8aX22f)

[Breccia]

I've more-or-less completed this project! But before I playtest it, I'm eager to hear your feedback!

A few.

Most of my concerns are wording issues, for example, Persistent Rage does literally nothing.

A few of my concerns are, this class is loaded with "as part of the Bonus Action of starting a Rage" when that stops being a Bonus Action at 9th level. I suspect these actions remain Bonus Actions and therefore the effect of Instinctive Rage is reduced considerably.

I like the Raging senses abilities, the idea of that kind of primal awareness is really cool. Problem is, you have finite Rages and they last a minute. I can't imagine a lot of cases where a Barbarian will burn a Rage to search a room. I would propose an alternate to make them more useful. Barbarians get a feature called Primal Awareness or whatever, that they can enter through a ritual-like breathing exercise that takes a full minute, and lasts Con minutes or something. During this time they add their Rage modifier to Perception, Insight, Investigate and tracking rolls. And also, Barbarians have Primal Awareness while Raging. Then, make all the Barbarian sensory powers usable during Primal Awareness. This would allow Barbarians to use their heightened senses without sacrificing battle power, and they would still work as listed while Raging. This becomes more and more important when the Barbarian gains abilities that cost Rage to cast anti-magic shell or earthquake.

I despise the ability of a sixth-level Barbarian to smash a one-foot stone wall with his face with no check required. Grab a dungeon map at random, you'll see it has a lot of problems. Three feet of wood is arguably worse. A three-foot tree will stop a semi truck. That really needs to be a higher level power, and replace it with something closer to knock.

Awesome Blow has no use limitations, no saving throw, and is available at any level. That's too much. Incidentally I don't care if some other class has an unlimited-use, no-saving-throw Shove ability at 1st level, they shouldn't have it either.

I don't mind seeing "resist everything but psychic" gone, I won't lie.

But...Raging spellcasters.

I'm sorry, I can't back that play. Oh, I'm not talking about the subclass. A subclass built around casting subclass spells while Raging, sign me up. But Raging and being able to cast generic spells from generic classes while Raging? Barbarian Rage is a highly-desired level 1 ability and you removed the two most significant downsides. I urge you to reconsider.

[strangebloke]

This looks very fun. I would play with this.

This kind of "select from an expanding pool of options" design is what every class should shoot for, and these options are very flavorful. I'm particularly a fan of the bloodrager.

There's a lot of QOL bit in here too, like rage only stopping if you fall unconcious. Allows for certain builds to pre-cast rage on themselves in combat.

Does this work with existing barbarian subclasses like Zealot? Obviously no unique powers but beyond that it feels like it would be pretty easy to slot zealot or totem or ancestral into here with a little bit of effort. Just have to reword a few things.


I'm sorry, I can't back that play. Oh, I'm not talking about the subclass. A subclass built around casting subclass spells while Raging, sign me up. But Raging and being able to cast generic spells from generic classes while Raging? Barbarian Rage is a highly-desired level 1 ability and you removed the two most significant downsides. I urge you to reconsider.

I would agree with everything you say and add that the "jump to a spot a mile away" thing is just not really on-brand for how I think of adventures with barbarians. (while also being sort of bad, and something I would never take.)

[GalacticAxekick]

Most of my concerns are wording issues, for example, Persistent Rage does literally nothing.Persistent Rage does the same thing it always did: it lets you Rage for longer than 1 minute.


A few of my concerns are, this class is loaded with "as part of the Bonus Action of starting a Rage" when that stops being a Bonus Action at 9th level. I suspect these actions remain Bonus Actions and therefore the effect of Instinctive Rage is reduced considerably. How so? The benefit of Instinctive Rage was and still is that you can begin raging before anyone has the chance to attack you, thereby reducing incoming damage and benefiting from other Rage-related defenses before your first turn.

Also that you cannot be surprised.


I like the Raging senses abilities, the idea of that kind of primal awareness is really cool. Problem is, you have finite Rages and they last a minute. I can't imagine a lot of cases where a Barbarian will burn a Rage to search a room.Remember what I said about Persistent Rage? ;)


I would propose an alternate to make them more useful. Barbarians get a feature called Primal Awareness or whatever, that they can enter through a ritual-like breathing exercise that takes a full minute, and lasts Con minutes or something. During this time they add their Rage modifier to Perception, Insight, Investigate and tracking rolls. And also, Barbarians have Primal Awareness while Raging. Then, make all the Barbarian sensory powers usable during Primal Awareness. This would allow Barbarians to use their heightened senses without sacrificing battle power, and they would still work as listed while Raging. This becomes more and more important when the Barbarian gains abilities that cost Rage to cast anti-magic shell or earthquake.This is an excellent idea! I'll incorporate it as soon as I'm at my laptop.


I despise the ability of a sixth-level Barbarian to smash a one-foot stone wall with his face with no check required. Grab a dungeon map at random, you'll see it has a lot of problems. Three feet of wood is arguably worse. A three-foot tree will stop a semi truck. That really needs to be a higher level power, and replace it with something closer to knock.I dont see any problems. Yes, this feature would let you crash through walls and avoid entire sections of a dungeon. That's working as intended.

I'm willing to bump it to 10th level. Im willing to reduce the thickness that it can smash. But Im not willing to demote it to knock. A Barbarian should be able to become the Juggernaut!


Awesome Blow has no use limitations, no saving throw, and is available at any level. That's too much. Incidentally I don't care if some other class has an unlimited-use, no-saving-throw Shove ability at 1st level, they shouldn't have it either. The Warlock has exactly that (Repelling Blast), but of course you dont care.

I'll simply say that Awesome Blow isnt going anywhere. It gives martial characters a choice to make every turn besides "who do I hit", without inflicting any status conditions or otherwise numerically buffing them. It's pure battlefield control. Its my favourite homebrew feature of all time.


I'm sorry, I can't back that play. Oh, I'm not talking about the subclass. A subclass built around casting subclass spells while Raging, sign me up. But Raging and being able to cast generic spells from generic classes while Raging? Barbarian Rage is a highly-desired level 1 ability and you removed the two most significant downsides. I urge you to reconsider.Sure. I'll limit the Bloodrager so it cant cast spells except cast Bloodrager spells while raging.

Harnessed Power will lift this limit at 7th level, making multiclassing possible but costly.

[GalacticAxekick]

This looks very fun. I would play with this.

This kind of "select from an expanding pool of options" design is what every class should shoot for, and these options are very flavorful. I'm particularly a fan of the bloodrager.

There's a lot of QOL bit in here too, like rage only stopping if you fall unconcious. Allows for certain builds to pre-cast rage on themselves in combat.Glad you like it!


Does this work with existing barbarian subclasses like Zealot? Obviously no unique powers but beyond that it feels like it would be pretty easy to slot zealot or totem or ancestral into here with a little bit of effort. Just have to reword a few things.The short answer is yes.

You could take the existing subclasses and slot them into this Barbarian, although most of their subclass features would come one level later (6th level feature at 7th, 10th at 11th, 14th at 15th.

My Barbarian gains 1st and 20th level subclass features, but these are just variations of Rage and Primal Champion. The original subclass can just use ordinary Rage and Primal Champion.


I would agree with everything you say and add that the "jump to a spot a mile away" thing is just not really on-brand for how I think of adventures with barbarians. (while also being sort of bad, and something I would never take.)The Barbarian is, to me, defined by being superhumanly powerful. EVERY feat of strength, durability, and passion is on brand. It's just a question of "what level Barbarian is capable of this feat?"

If the Incredible Hulk can jump into space to grab a meteor and toss it at his enemies, the highest level Barbarians should be at least capable of something similar.

[KittenMagician]

Persistent Rage does the same thing it always did: it lets you Rage for longer than 1 minute.



it says it only ends early, as in before the 1 minute time limit. persistent rage has never allowed you to rage longer than a minute. in normal barbarian "It ends early if you are knocked unconscious or if your turn ends and you haven't attacked a hostile creature since your last turn or taken damage since then. You can also end your rage on your turn as a bonus action." you removed this rage ending mechanic so your persistent rage does nothing

also your relentless rage is too powerful. in base barbarian the DC gets harder each time you succeed. your version the DC never goes above 10. so with your barbarian if i have a 16 con at that level the only way i ever die/hit 0hp is if i roll a 1 (and if you are playing RAW you cant crit fail saving throws so an 18 con and you cant die ever). if i play a halfling then i pretty much become unkillable. take the lucky feat, super unkillable, light 2 level dip into divination wizard for a super duper mega ultra neverending unkillable halfling barbarian.

[GalacticAxekick]

it says it only ends early, as in before the 1 minute time limit. persistent rage has never allowed you to rage longer than a minute. in normal barbarian "It ends early if you are knocked unconscious or if your turn ends and you haven't attacked a hostile creature since your last turn or taken damage since then. You can also end your rage on your turn as a bonus action." you removed this rage ending mechanic so your persistent rage does nothingI see! In that case I'll edit the feature to make my previous understanding explicit. Persistent Rage will let you Rage for over a minute (maybe indefinitely, maybe an hour. I'll decide when I write it)


also your relentless rage is too powerful. in base barbarian the DC gets harder each time you succeed. your version the DC never goes above 10. so with your barbarian if i have a 16 con at that level the only way i ever die/hit 0hp is if i roll a 1 (and if you are playing RAW you cant crit fail saving throws so an 18 con and you cant die ever). if i play a halfling then i pretty much become unkillable. take the lucky feat, super unkillable, light 2 level dip into divination wizard for a super duper mega ultra neverending unkillable halfling barbarian.Oh, that's just a transcription error. Relentless Rage is meant to he identical to the original feature. I'll fix that.

[Breccia]

Persistent Rage does the same thing it always did: it lets you Rage for longer than 1 minute.

I disagree. Persistent Rage says it stops your Rage from ending early. That "early" is a key word, referring to how RAW Barbarians must attempt to kill things to continue Raging. It does not say anything about extending the duration. I looked around and did not find any official source that said Persistent Rage lasted longer than a minute, but every discussion board I found said the one-minute time frame was still there. Since your Barbarians are not required to attempt to kill something every round, but still lose Rage while unconscious, your version does nothing.

Now, maybe your version could add to the duration. But as written, right now, your version does nothing, because you had already removed the restriction that would cause it to end early.


How so?

Actually, after a re-read, the issue for me is Ferocious Frenzy. Depending on interpretation, either your Barbarians
a) can make an attack without spending any kind of Action at al, but only in the round they spend a Rage, or
b) need the Bonus Action to Rage and punch, meaning it's not instant anymore

Considering that Rage uses are rare and valuable, it's not a major problem either way. I dislike attacking without any Action spent, Grappling is powerful, and an Unarmed Strike can really hurt...but perhaps the resource cost makes it okay. It's not like they can do it every round.

The utility/defense stuff I never had a problem with being instant.


But Im not willing to demote it to knock.

At 6th level you probably could, if the full-strength version was waiting for them at a higher level.


A Barbarian should be able to become the Juggernaut!

Eventually, maybe.


The Warlock has exactly that (Repelling Blast), but of course you dont care.

I still don't care for either, but I'll withdraw my objection since it's basically the same thing, including both your Barbarian and RAW Warlocks have to choose to take the ability and therefore give up another option.


Sure. I'll limit the Bloodrager so it cant cast spells except cast Bloodrager spells while raging.

Actually I was suggesting none of your Barbarians be able to cast any spells while Raging, just like baseline Barbarians, except Bloodrager spells. Right now, Stoic Barbarians could cast Raging Fireball, because your Barbarian Rage says you can't Concentrate but it doesn't say it blocks spellcasting. Bloodrager spells should be the exception that can be cast, not an extra restriction on the only subclass that gets spells.

I will say, my first post might have come off unnecessarily negative. I did have and still have some objections, but overall this feels like a solid class with far more utility. And I really like Bloodragers.

[GalacticAxekick]

I disagree. Persistent Rage says it stops your Rage from ending early. Yeah, someone else in this thread clarified this for me. Thanks for pointing it out nonetheless!


Now, maybe your version could add to the duration. But as written, right now, your version does nothing, because you had already removed the restriction that would cause it to end early.That's exactly what I'll do!


Actually, after a re-read, the issue for me is Ferocious Frenzy. Depending on interpretation, either your Barbarians
a) can make an attack without spending any kind of Action at al, but only in the round they spend a Rage, or
b) need the Bonus Action to Rage and punch, meaning it's not instant anymoreActually its c) my Berserkers can make an attack as a bonus action every single round during their Rage, including the round that they begin Raging.

Ferocious Frenzy says "as part of the bonus action you use begin raging, or as a bonus action during your rage."

EDIT: You seem concerned that an unarmed strike can really hurt. But at 1 + Str + Rage (6 at 3rd level), my Berserker's bonus action unarmed strike is comparable to
the Battlerager's bonus action armor spikes (1d4 + Str + Rage, or 7.5)
the Zealot's action-free Divine Fury (1d6 + half level, or 4.5)
and Storm Herald's bonus action Desert Storm Aura (2 points of automatic fire damage to every creature within 10 feet)
and Storm Herald's bonus action Sea Storm Aura (1d6 points of save-or-half lightning damage, or 3.5)



At 6th level you probably could, if the full-strength version was waiting for them at a higher level.How about I expand the Break Loose power so it has a knock-like function, then push Unstoppable Force to 10th level?


Actually I was suggesting none of your Barbarians be able to cast any spells while Raging, just like baseline Barbarians, except Bloodrager spells.Oh! Sure.


I will say, my first post might have come off unnecessarily negative. I did have and still have some objections, but overall this feels like a solid class with far more utility. And I really like Bloodragers.I'm really happy to hear that!

[Breccia]

Ferocious Frenzy says "as part of the bonus action you use begin raging, or as a bonus action during your rage."

Attacking as a Bonus Action is not a problem. Technically, anyone can do that. That's not my concern at all. Neither is damage added to an attack that already costs you an Action, like Paladin smite. Those still come out of your action budget.

Attacking as a non-Action is. The issue is when a 9th level Barbarian rages, it is no longer an Action. Does Ferocious Frenzy allow them to attack when using no Action at all to Rage? Because I'm not overall a fan of attacking with no Action at all spent. Not a massive problem in this case because you have to spend a Rage to do it, but it's a path I'd rather not start down. Especially since you are letting them Grapple, then Extra Attack, then Bonus Attack. Since they haven't used their Bonus Action yet. Or, if they use a powered-up Unarmed Strike from a Feat or being a Monk. Not even the Zealot can do that.

It really doesn't look like you're trying to allow that, but the wording isn't 100% clear. And again, the non-offensive "use this as part of your Rage activation" being instant aren't a problem to me. It's the freebie no-Action attack, that's it.

[GalacticAxekick]

Does Ferocious Frenzy allow them to attack when using no Action at all to Rage?No, it does not.


It really doesn't look like you're trying to allow that, but the wording isn't 100% clear. It says "as part of the bonus action you use to begin raging"

Is there a way I can phrase this more clearly?

[Kane0]

Is there a way I can phrase this more clearly?

"When you use your bonus action to X, you can do Y"

[GalacticAxekick]

"When you use your bonus action to X, you can do Y"Cool. I'll phrase it that way

[Breccia]

"When you use your bonus action to X, you can do Y"


Cool. I'll phrase it that way

Yeah, the only issue I had left was wording and clarity.

Again, I really like the "raging senses" part of the class. It's new and different.

[Olffandad]

Very excellent work! It seems playable - I didn't do a deep dive into the mechanics, but you captured the paths with distinct flavors. Well done!

How about adding Survival as a free skill for Barbarians, bringing them to 3 starting skills? That's their core origin story, surviving in difficult lands.

Maybe even make that an Expertise with double PB on it?

[GalacticAxekick]

Very excellent work! It seems playable - I didn't do a deep dive into the mechanics, but you captured the paths with distinct flavors. Well done!Glad to hear! Dive into the mechanics if you ever find the time, and let me know what you think!


How about adding Survival as a free skill for Barbarians, bringing them to 3 starting skills? That's their core origin story, surviving in difficult lands.Its important to me that background represents what lifestyle a character comes from while class represents what abilities make them extraordinary. When a class presupposes a background, it severely narrows the variety of characters that can be created.

So the core characteristic of barbarians, to me, is that they are superhumanly powerful but unpolished warriors. A barbarian hardened by a lifetime of surviving difficult lands can take the outlander background to represent that. But it must be possible to play a barbarian with a different background and no survival skills at all.

[GalacticAxekick]

Since it seems no one has any remaining critiques, it seems like this project is complete! I can finally move from fixing old content to adding new!

I've written one last subclass: the Lycanthrope, (https://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/sA3mdxUaduvi) which of course represents someone who transforms from into half-beast hybrid during their rage. Because it allows the player to gain the abilities of nearly any beast in the Monster Manual, theres a lot of room for unforeseen abuses, as well as fun builds. Let me know what you think!

[Breccia]

Because it allows the player to gain the abilities of nearly any beast in the Monster Manual, theres a lot of room for unforeseen abuses

I had a class that did this in 3.5E and a DM player got it. It was a slaughter.

I haven't read your subclass but I can tell you right now just saying "any monster that..." is destined for broketitude.

[GalacticAxekick]

I haven't read your subclass but I can tell you right now just saying "any monster that..." is destined for broketitude.If the player could gain features from "any monster", I know for a fact the subclass would be broken. But because it is constrained to beasts that are large or smaller, I anticipate that this subclass will be mostly balanced with a select few abuses.

For example, 1st level features:

At 1st level, the Lycanthrope can choose any beast that is large or smaller. While raging, the Lycanthrope gains access to all of this beast's special senses (such as darkvision and blindsight), as well as any features related to this beast's senses (such as Keen Smell and Echolocation.

By itself, this feature is impossible to abuse. Although Rage is already a powerful feature an packaging it with enhanced senses such might sound like too much, actually SCOUTING using this senses comes with the steep opportunity cost of not using Rage in combat!

At 1st level, the Lycanthrope can choose any beast that is large or smaller. While raging, the Lycanthrope gains access to all of this beast's attacks (though the Lycanthrope uses its own statistics to calculate its attack rolls, damage rolls and saving throw DCs of these attacks).

An ordinary barbarian can swing a greatsword to deal 2d6+3+2 (12) damage as an action, or two handaxes to deal 2d6+3+4 (14) damage as an action and bonus action. Here is a list of ways a Lycanthrope can beat or equal those figures:

A Plesiosaurus Lycanthrope could bite for 3d6+3+2 (15.5)
An Allosaurus Lycanthrope could bite for 2d10+3+2 (16)
An Aurochs, Hunter Shark or Rhinoceros Lycanthrope could attack for 2d8+3+2 (14)
A Brown Bear, Dire Wolf, Giant Boar, Giant Eagle, Giant Octopus, Giant Owl, Giant Vulture, Giant Hyena, Polar Bear, or Sabre-Toothed Tiger Lycanthrope could attack for 2d6+3+2 (12)


So if we want Natural Weapons to be equal to ordinary weapons in terms of raw power (which I think is fair), all we have to do is write a rule against choosing prehistoric beasts (Plesiosaurs, Allosaurs, Auruchs, Dire Wolves, Sabre-Toothed Tigers)

A handful of beasts can force the targets of their attacks to make saving throws on hit. A Lycanthrope that gains the Natural Weapons of such a beast can do the same thing. And so the effects of failed saves are an important factor when it comes to balancing Natural Weapons. Here is a list Natural Weapon attacks and the saves that follow them:

A Constrictor Snake Lycan's constrict deals 1d8+3+2 (9.5) damage and grapples the target on hit (escape DC 13). The target is not merely grappled, but also restrained.
A Poisonous Snake Lycan's bite deals 1+3+2 (6) damage, and the target must make a DC 13 Con save or take 2d4 (5) damage (11 total).
A Giant Poisonous Snake Lycan has the same power, but has 10 foot reach, deals 1d4+3+2 (7.5) with its bite and 3d6 (10.5) with its poison (18 total)
An Octopus Lycan's tentacles deal 1+3+2 (6) damage and grapple the target on hit (escape DC 13).
A Giant Octopus Lycan has the same power, but has 15 foot reach, deals 2d6+3+2 (12) damage, and leaves the target not merely grappled, but also restrained.
A Wolf Lycan's bite deals 2d4+3+2 (10) damage, and the target must make a DC 13 Strength save or fall prone.
A Dire Wolf Lycan has the same power, but deals 2d6+3+2 (12) damage
A Scorpion Lycan's sting deals 1+3+2 (6) damage, and the target must make a DC 13 Con save or take 1d8 (4.5) damage (10.5 total)
A Giant Scorpion Lycan has the same power, but deals 1d10+3+2 (10.5) with its sting and 4d10 (22) with its poison (32.5 total)
A Spider Lycan's bite deals 1+3+2 (6) damage, and the target must make a DC 13 Con save or take 1d4 (2.5) damage (8.5 total)
A Giant Wolf Spider Lycan has the same power, but deals 1d6+3+2 (8.5) with its bite and 2d6 (7) with its poison (15.5 total). A target reduced to 0 hit points by this damage is stable, but poisoned and paralyzed for 1 hour.
A Giant Spider Lycan has the same power, but deals 1d8+3+2 (9.5) with its bite and 2d8 (9) with its poison (18.5 total). A target reduced to 0 hit points by this damage is stable, but poisoned and paralyzed for 1 hour.
A Giant Frog Lycan's Bite deals 1d6+3+2 (8.5) damage and grapples the target on hit (escape DC 13). The target is not merely grappled, but also restrained.
A Giant Toad Lycan's has the same power, but deals 1d10+3+2 (10.5) damage with its bite.
A Giant Wasp Lycan's Sting deals 1d6+3+2 (8.5) damage, and the target must make a DC 13 Con save or take 3d6 (10.5) damage (19 total). A target reduced to 0 hit points by this damage is stable, but poisoned and paralyzed for 1 hour.


Unfortunately, there is an enormous number of overpowered effects on this list. Luckily, you can eliminate 100% of them by writing a rule against giant creatures!


Long story short, 1st level looks fine to me, provided that prehistoric beasts and giant beasts are off the list of options for the Lycanthrope!

[Breccia]

But because it is constrained to beasts that are large or smaller

Oh thank Gond. I'll get to reading it, I promise, it's just finals week so not right this second.

[strangebloke]

Since it seems no one has any remaining critiques, it seems like this project is complete! I can finally move from fixing old content to adding new!

I've written one last subclass: the Lycanthrope, (https://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/sA3mdxUaduvi) which of course represents someone who transforms from into half-beast hybrid during their rage. Because it allows the player to gain the abilities of nearly any beast in the Monster Manual, theres a lot of room for unforeseen abuses, as well as fun builds. Let me know what you think!

Honestly this seems very cool, but the wording is needlessly unclear. You need a little more flavor text and clarity here. Something like:

"Your rage comes from a bestial spark of fury lying deep within your soul. When you rage, this force emerges and partially transforms you into a beast of your choice. Pick a beast of your choice. You gain any natural weapons and senses of the beast you choose. If one of these natural weapons inflicts a STR or DEX saving throw the DC is 8+STR+prof, If one of these natural weapons inflicts a CON saving throw the DC is 8+CON+prof"

Would be better.

As for balance... well, this is pretty hilariously broken. The problem here isn't limited to dinosaurs and sabertoothed cats. Rhinos are one example here, with their 2d8 weapon attack. Giant Elk hooves also deal 4d8 damage to prone enemies. You have giant wasps as well, which have 3d6 poison damage on a save, and Giant Octupi which deal greatsword damage and auto-restraining their targets....

It's kind of a mess and I don't think Werectupi and Waspweres are the goal here. It's also unclear how this works. If I gain the natural weapons of a giant wasp, do I get a huge a huge wasp abdomen coming out of my back? I don't necessarily think that such powers are bad they're probably a bit much at level 1 and a bit out of flavor. Something more boring like what the actual beast barbarian does would work better, imo at least.

[GalacticAxekick]

Honestly this seems very cool, but the wording is needlessly unclear. You need a little more [...] clarity here. Something like:

"You gain any natural weapons [...] of the beast you choose. "This is unclear. Do I just copy and paste their attacks onto my character sheet? In other words, do I use that beast's bonus to hit, and that beast's bonus to attack rolls? This I why I specified "You use your own proficiency bonus and Strength modifier to calculate your attack and damage rolls."


"You gain any [...] senses of the beast you choose."This too is unclear. Do I only gain the senses listed in the "senses" section of the monster stat block (such as darkvision and blindsight), or do I also gain sense-related features in the "features" section (such as Keen Smell and Echolocation)? If I am a werebat, do I gain blindsight unconditionally at 1st level, but suddenly get the Echolocation conditions at 3rd level? This is why I specified "as well as any features they possess related to their senses".


"If one of these natural weapons inflicts a STR or DEX saving throw the DC is 8+STR+prof, If one of these natural weapons inflicts a CON saving throw the DC is 8+CON+prof"The only difference between your phrasing and mine is that I wrote wrote "features" instead of "natural weapons". And if I phrased it your way, this feature would not have the complete effect. At 3rd level the Lycanthrope might gain access to features that involve saving throws (such as the Lion's Pounce and the Rhinoceros's Charge), and so I need this feature to cover them as well.



As for balance... well, this is pretty hilariously broken. The problem here isn't limited to dinosaurs and sabertoothed cats. Rhinos are one example here, with their 2d8 weapon attack. Giant Elk hooves also deal 4d8 damage to prone enemies. You have giant wasps as well, which have 3d6 poison damage on a save, and Giant Octupi which deal greatsword damage and auto-restraining their targets....The Giant Elk was never an option (that's a huge beast, and you can only gain features from large-or-smaller beasts).

But beyond that, I already discussed eliminating all giant beasts with Breccia. Giant Wasps, Giant Octupi and such are no longer options.

The Rhino's 2d8 attack remains an option. 2d8+Str+Rage is 14 damage at 1st level. But a Barbarian can already do 14 damage at 1st level with two handaxes, shortswords or scimitars (2d6+Str+Rage+Rage).


You need a little more flavor text [...] something like:

"Your rage comes from a bestial spark of fury lying deep within your soul. When you rage, this force emerges and partially transforms you into a beast of your choice."I already wrote "As a lycanthrope, beastly blood coursing through your veins grants you inhuman fortitude, senses and agility. Be it a blessing or a curse, you are as much animal as you are man. [...] Choose a beast that is large is smaller. While raging, you transform into a hybrid between a humanoid and this beast."

What does your flavour text add that mine lacks?


I don't think Werectupi and Waspweres are the goal here.The goal is to allow werebeasts of any kind, constrained only by the game's balance! Werewolves, wereowls, werecrocodiles, weresharks, werewasps, you name it! Realistically, players will gravitate to certain concepts. Werewolves, werebats, wererats, all very cool. But I don't want to narrow anyone's options unnecessarily.


If I gain the natural weapons of a giant wasp, do I get a huge a huge wasp abdomen coming out of my back? Yes. As well as hundreds of tiny eyes, coarse sparse hairs, mandibles, and vestigial wings. You transform into a half-man-half-wasp monstrosity, like something out of The Fly.


I don't necessarily think that such powers are bad they're probably a bit much at level 1 and a bit out of flavor. Something more boring like what the actual beast barbarian does would work better, imo at least.If I were satisfied with the beast Barbarian I wouldn't be writing this. I'm trying to make something significantly more flexible than the beast while still remaining balanced.

[strangebloke]

snip

Apologies, since my review clearly had some errors.

With that said, I would never use this in its current form. A huge portion of this subclass as printed is chasing potential balance issues created by the current list of printed beasts. This is why you end up using caveats like "no giant creatures" and "no prehistoric creatures." These terms don't mean anything and you've chosen them not because there's a problem with all creatures of that sort, but because you've done the work of going through every entry yourself and then carefully picked descriptors that eliminate those classes of creatures. This approach may feel different than just saying "no plesiosaurs or allosaurs" but in reality its pretty close to the same thing.

As such its really not robust, and could get broken wide open by any new printed material. Its pretty clear that if something like a giant wasp could be a problem, then an "Enormous Wasp" or "Dire Wasp" or "Tainted Wasp" would be just as troublesome.

And I don't even really care if the damage does get way too high? But my fear is more that if I were to allow this, a player would show up with something weird and tonally off for the setting"because its optimal." Werebear? Fine. Weretiger? Awesome. Were-Bristled-Moorbounder? Ohhhh-kay....

And yeah you're chasing edgecases like echolocation, but stuff like waterbreathing is going to come up as well. Breathing only when not raging is... an interesting possibility, I'll say that. I'm sure there's a lot more cases that I haven't considered, but there's always going to be more things like that, this is just a design that inherently accumulates a lot of technical debt. And I don't know what its really all in pursuit of. I'd rather just pick from a defined list of options that works and are flavorful than comb through loads of random splats, many of which aren't suppose to be player facing.

[GalacticAxekick]

As such its really not robust, and could get broken wide open by any new printed material. Its pretty clear that if something like a giant wasp could be a problem, then an "Enormous Wasp" or "Dire Wasp" or "Tainted Wasp" would be just as troublesome.Excellent point!


And I don't even really care if the damage does get way too high? But my fear is more that if I were to allow this, a player would show up with something weird and tonally off for the setting"because its optimal." Werebear? Fine. Weretiger? Awesome. Were-Bristled-Moorbounder? Ohhhh-kay.... That would never make it past character creation. Players dont just show up with sheets and play (at least, not at any table I've played at). Players run their characters by the DM to assure that they fit into the setting and story.



This is just a design that inherently accumulates a lot of technical debt. And I don't know what its really all in pursuit of. I'd rather just pick from a defined list of options that works and are flavorful than comb through loads of random splats, many of which aren't suppose to be player facing.Its in pursuit of the option to play as a were-creature that embodies all the unique abilities of nearly any given beast.

I understand that you'd like to pick from a defined list of features that work playerside. Thats the mechanically safe approach. But from my perspective, that approach sucks the flavor from everything. If I use the Beast Barbarian, for example, there are no features to represent many attacks, senses, movement options and other features that beasts have. Many were-beasts simply cant be represented, and those that can end up samey and lackluster.

I accept your criticism when it comes to how delicate the balance is. But I can only shrug off your criticism of the goals of the subclass.

Are there any other balance issues I've missed? For example, with the higher level features?

[Kane0]

I understand that you'd like to pick from a defined list of features that work playerside. Thats the mechanically safe approach. But from my perspective, that approach sucks the flavor from everything. If I use the Beast Barbarian, for example, there are no features to represent many attacks, senses, movement options and other features that beasts have. Many were-beasts simply cant be represented, and those that can end up samey and lackluster.


You could just add more features that do the things you want? Roll together how Totem and Beast works and you're halfway there, just add or change a few to match the things you feel are missing (senses, movement modes, special attacls/defenses, etc)

[strangebloke]

I understand that you'd like to pick from a defined list of features that work playerside. Thats the mechanically safe approach. But from my perspective, that approach sucks the flavor from everything. If I use the Beast Barbarian, for example, there are no features to represent many attacks, senses, movement options and other features that beasts have. Many were-beasts simply cant be represented, and those that can end up samey and lackluster.

I accept your criticism when it comes to how delicate the balance is. But I can only shrug off your criticism of the goals of the subclass.

Are there any other balance issues I've missed? For example, with the higher level features?

Oh I mean completely fair and I can only give my own perspective. As a DM I just want to be able to give a player a bit of homebrew and say "go hogwild" because this means less work for me, and because balanced stuff makes players feel more free playing around with options for flavor rather than going for whats good. As an example here, there's basically no reason to pick a werehyena here over a werelion, even if the former approach is potentially more interesting to the player. You're asking them to lose darkvision, pounce, and running leap, in exchange for having the aesthetic/lore they want. If giant hyena were on the table that would be a different story, since you could get rampage, but atm it isn't because things like giant ape exist. Crocodiles are similarly kind of just worse than octopi, and all flying options other than the bloodhawk and maybe flying snake are terrible. Plus, there are some classic concepts like the wererat that have no good options here.

But I appreciate that you're taking a more open-ended approach and I do have a lot of nostalgia for the 3.x stuff that used to work this way, like the old alter self. So I can see the appeal and I'm not going to say its wrong. It is cool that there are differences between say tigers and lions, even if overall the lion does come out a lot better.

There may be some sort of medium approach here where you can list a whole lot of approved beasts and have them essentially be added into the class the way you're envisioning. Rather than trying to create a general rule that works for all possible beasts that could ever be printed, you just list 10 or 20 options. This is a lot of work, but you are sort of doing this already, and a LOT of beasts end up being mechanically similar anyway.

On the note of balance... meh. Balance isn't the most important thing, and the large number of weak options worries me more than most of the strong options. Just for fun, there is a specific beast in Avernus who's an 18th level spellcaster, but obviously specific NPC beasts were always out of the question.

But what I see as strong options here are:

octopus, with a grapple-on-hit that inflicts disadvantage on the target and advantage on attacks against them, and requires and action to break free. Also camouflage, ink cloud, darvision... would in theory lose power once you get water breathing as a feature, but not if they hold their breath. Other drawback would be 5 foot walking speed, but again, this won't come up with your rules unless you use beast shape.
lion, with pack tactics, darkvision, pounce, decent weapons, and running leap. Very solid allrounder. (damage is little weaker than the tiger but better in every other way)
rhino, which is the strongest charger archetype and gets 2d8+str+2d8 on a charge that also knocks prone once the charge effect comes online (you get this on both attacks)
blood-hawk, not because its actually good but because all the other non-terrible flying options are either 'giant' or dinos, and you do get pack tactics.


Honorable mention to the cranium rat which isn't good at all but you get a glowing brain, telepathy, and you are also immune to divination

[Kane0]

There may be some sort of medium approach here where you can list a whole lot of approved beasts and have them essentially be added into the class the way you're envisioning. Rather than trying to create a general rule that works for all possible beasts that could ever be printed, you just list 10 or 20 options. This is a lot of work, but you are sort of doing this already, and a LOT of beasts end up being mechanically similar anyway.


Yeah to hit a 'best practice' sort of design where you don't offload all the balancing problems and final approval onto the DM you pretty much have to curate the list in some way (It's enough of a hurdle to get DMs to allow homebrew in the first place.). Think like how Barbarian/Druid totems are just a few limited items or how Beastmaster/Wildshape restricts by CR, size and/or movement mode.

[strangebloke]

Yeah to hit a 'best practice' sort of design where you don't offload all the balancing problems and final approval onto the DM you pretty much have to curate the list in some way (It's enough of a hurdle to get DMs to allow homebrew in the first place.). Think like how Barbarian/Druid totems are just a few limited items or how Beastmaster/Wildshape restricts by CR, size and/or movement mode.

You could also do this like find steed. Give a large approved list and then mention that you can talk to your DM for more options if you'd rather have a black bear or giant owl or whatever.

[GalacticAxekick]

Yeah to hit a 'best practice' sort of design where you don't offload all the balancing problems and final approval onto the DM you pretty much have to curate the list in some way (It's enough of a hurdle to get DMs to allow homebrew in the first place.). Think like how Barbarian/Druid totems are just a few limited items or how Beastmaster/Wildshape restricts by CR, size and/or movement mode.Oh, of course the list has to be curated. It's not like I said "pick a beast, get its features"

I took inspiration from the Beastmaster/Wildshape restrictions and restricted by size (large or smaller) description (no "swarm of X" or "giant X") and movement mode (originally no flight. As of this morning, flight is allowed has the same limitations as the Eagle Totem Barbarian).

My intention is not to offload ANY balancing problems onto the DM ("is the werebat balanced?"). I want to solve all of those right now.

My intention is only to offload THEMATIC CONCERNS onto the DM ("are there werebats in this setting?"). Each DM must decide that for themselves.


You could just add more features that do the things you want? Roll together how Totem and Beast works and you're halfway there, just add or change a few to match the things you feel are missing (senses, movement modes, special attacls/defenses, etc)Here is a VERY quick and dirty attempt at that. (https://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/Ds_O-lIugsjj)

It lets the player build a wider variety of were-guys than the Beast does, but also is more clearly defined than my original Lycanthrope. Certainly not balanced or finished yet, but how is that for a start

[Kane0]

My phone butchers homebrewery but seems OK, just do the usual playtest and balancing pass to iron out any kinks

[strangebloke]

Oh, of course the list has to be curated. It's not like I said "pick a beast, get its features"

I took inspiration from the Beastmaster/Wildshape restrictions and restricted by size (large or smaller) description (no "swarm of X" or "giant X") and movement mode (originally no flight. As of this morning, flight is allowed has the same limitations as the Eagle Totem Barbarian).

My intention is not to offload ANY balancing problems onto the DM ("is the werebat balanced?"). I want to solve all of those right now.

My intention is only to offload THEMATIC CONCERNS onto the DM ("are there werebats in this setting?"). Each DM must decide that for themselves.

Here is a VERY quick and dirty attempt at that. (https://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/Ds_O-lIugsjj)

It lets the player build a wider variety of were-guys than the Beast does, but also is more clearly defined than my original Lycanthrope. Certainly not balanced or finished yet, but how is that for a start

As a start this looks good.

Here's my recs:

grappling bite could use a better name, something like "death grip" maybe, and then maybe don't restrict it to being a bite in case someone wants to fluff it as eagle talons (for the obvious synergy with fly speed) or as a giant constrictor snake thing. This has no real balance implication, but it makes one potential combo feel more flavorful. Though IDK, maybe the constrictor would want to be prehensile anyway.
Vampiric bite seems fine. It's a bit weak unless you're eating a box of chickens after every fight or something, but this could may be solved by making the effect stronger (even doubling the hp gain) but making it THP gain instead.
Personal preference but I would just have claws get a BA attack with ability mod, rather than giving you an extra movement option. It's a bit above the baseline (1d6+3+2)*2=17 but not above the baseline of other subclasses like zealot or frenzied berserker. Its good to have a 'basic but effective' option.
Horns is great, absolutely zero problems with it.
Prehensile limb is really weird as its the only thing I think really allows for reach grappling in the game (bugbear loses its grapple at the end of the turn) but I think this is a good thing. Werefrogs should be weird.
Sting is just anemic and I think you probably want to make the poison damage better here. 1+STR piercing + 1d8 poison damage on a failed save or half on a success seems balanced. Poison is such a common resistance/immunity I don't think you want to make this ability weak when it does work.
Movement options look mostly good. Flying and jumping are technically redundant. You could have jumping be a harrengon-like ability where you get to jump after someone you make an OA against sort of like the "Relentless Avenger" ability vpaladins have. Swimming seems a bit weak, I can't see anyone taking it, but I'm not sure what the fix is.
Special abilities are good. I can see your fatigue setting in though. :smalltongue: Some additions that might make sense here include the Giant Hyena's rampage ability, pack tactics (good but not insane on a barbarian), and maybe some kind of damage-on-charge ability like a lot of beasts have (flavor wise works both for elk/rhinos but also for lions and panthers, even if those creatures work differently in terms of mechanics) You probably also want the giant frog's swallow ability just because its amazing.

[GalacticAxekick]

Grappling bite could use a better name, something like "death grip" maybe, and then maybe don't restrict it to being a bite in case someone wants to fluff it as eagle talons (for the obvious synergy with fly speed) or as a giant constrictor snake thing. This has no real balance implication, but it makes one potential combo feel more flavorful. Though IDK, maybe the constrictor would want to be prehensile anyway.Fair enough! I can change the name.


Vampiric bite seems fine. It's a bit weak unless you're eating a box of chickens after every fight or something, but this could may be solved by making the effect stronger (even doubling the hp gain) but making it THP gain instead.I'd much rather if it gave HP than temp HP. Its thematically appropriate if a lycanthrope/vampire can go into a rage and massacre defenseless creatures purely to heal their wounds.

I was reluctant to make the healing too powerful, but if you think it's weak I'm willing to add a die to it (say, 1d4? )


Personal preference but I would just have claws get a BA attack with ability mod, rather than giving you an extra movement option. It's a bit above the baseline (1d6+3+2)*2=17 but not above the baseline of other subclasses like zealot or frenzied berserker. Its good to have a 'basic but effective' option.Remember that these are 1st level features. 17 damage at 1st level is very high above baseline.

This is why the claws give you a bonus action attack without ability mod (2d6+3+4 = 14) and a movement option (as a consolation for not gaining any mechanically unique attacks).


Horns is great, absolutely zero problems with it.Cool!


Prehensile limb is really weird as its the only thing I think really allows for reach grappling in the game (bugbear loses its grapple at the end of the turn) but I think this is a good thing. Werefrogs should be weird.Great!


Sting is just anemic and I think you probably want to make the poison damage better here. 1+STR piercing + 1d8 poison damage on a failed save or half on a success seems balanced. Poison is such a common resistance/immunity I don't think you want to make this ability weak when it does work.By "make the poison damage better" you mean "make it deal poison damage" right?

Right now it deals 1+Str+Rage piercing damage and poisons the target for one round. I don't want to give up the poisoned condition for poison damage (that makes the sting nothing but an ordinary attack with a different damage type). Do you think its balanced to have both? Or alternatively, do you think it would work the make the poisoned condition longer lasting/more powerful?


Movement options look mostly good. Flying and jumping are technically redundant. You could have jumping be a harrengon-like ability where you get to jump after someone you make an OA against sort of like the "Relentless Avenger" ability vpaladins have.Interesting idea! I might write that in.


Swimming seems a bit weak, I can't see anyone taking it, but I'm not sure what the fix is.Agreed. It really just exists for aquatic campaigns.


Special abilities are good. I can see your fatigue setting in though. :smalltongue: Some additions that might make sense here include the Giant Hyena's rampage ability, pack tactics (good but not insane on a barbarian), and maybe some kind of damage-on-charge ability like a lot of beasts have (flavor wise works both for elk/rhinos but also for lions and panthers, even if those creatures work differently in terms of mechanics) You probably also want the giant frog's swallow ability just because its amazing.Swallow is a great idea! I'll have a look at beasts like the giant hyena to see just what they're offering.

Expect an updated version today or tomorrow.