How to best describe a Level 30 character?

[ribblle]

You're not quite a god, but you're not just a demi-god.

[Psyren]

That largely depends on what they get that sets them apart from a level 20 character, but superlatives like "epic", "paragon" and "legendary" are a starting point.

[JackPhoenix]

Empty void.
Because there's no such thing as level 30 character.

[Unoriginal]

"They don't exist" is how I would describe them.

More accurately, though, in the hypothetical someone did follow the rules for characters progression beyond lvl 20, a Lvl 30 character woud be a Lvl 20 character with 150% the health and 10 Epic Boons or so.



Empty void.
Because there's no such thing as level 30 character.

Well put.

[PhantomSoul]

A unicorn... except unicorns exist in 5e... so... um... a page of 5e threads where casters vs. martials doesn't come up?

[KorvinStarmast]

How to best describe a Level 30 character?"I think you're playing a different edition" :smallsmile:

[loki_ragnarock]

"I think you're playing a different edition" :smallsmile:

Whelp, this is what I came here to say, except I was going to go with "Ancient, From Before the Second Sundering."

[Kane0]

One and a half demigods, about 0.66 of a lesser deity.

[CTurbo]

The reason level 30 doesn't exist in 5e is because there would be no enemy capable of posing a threat to a party of level 30 characters.

This may not answer your question, but if I were going to make or allow characters up to level 30, I have a pretty good idea on how I'd do it.

Hot points increase like normal.

Proficiency bonus is +7 from levels 21-25 and +8 from levels 26-30.

2-3 more ASI/feats from 21-30.

Martials would get TWO more attacks from 21-30.

Casters would still gain spells slots as normal, but there would not be any 10th level spells. They'd top out at 14th level spells, but would have to up-cast lower level spells using those higher slots. (19d6 Fireball from the 14th level slot lol)(16D4+16 Magic Missile lol)

Cantrips would continue to scale up to probably 2 more damage dice by level 30.

At some point, each character would get Legendary Resistance and at least 1 Legendary Reaction maybe as a level 30 capstone.

I'd have to look at a class by class breakdown, but here are a few examples

Monks would still gain ki with each level for a max of 30 ki. Probably increase their Martial Arts die to a d12.
Sorcerers would continue to gain Sorcy points to a max of 30 and would need to know at least a few more spells.
Barbarians would increase their little Rage damage to +5 or +6 and I'd probably increase Brutal Critical a couple more times since it's so weak.
Rogues would continue to increase Sneak Attack damage for a max of 15d6 at level 30. I was thinking it would be cool if Rogues were somehow granted an additional Bonus Action each round at some point.

[animorte]

More accurately, though, in the hypothetical someone did follow the rules for characters progression beyond lvl 20, a Lvl 30 character woud be a Lvl 20 character with 150% the health and 10 Epic Boons or so.

A more durable level 20 PC, yes. I just discovered the Epic Boons thanks to you...

[Witty Username]

if you can fight 6 Tarrasques a day without dying, you are presumably a level 30 character.

[Unoriginal]

You're not quite a god, but you're not just a demi-god.

Also, just to point out, but being a god in DnD 5e (and DnD in general) is a question of nature, not of power.

What makes a god a god is that a) they get power from worship and b) they're basically immortal unless killed by something or someone with a divine spark or if they lose all worships, and even then they can come back from the dead.

[Pildion]

A unicorn... except unicorns exist in 5e... so... um... a page of 5e threads where casters vs. martials doesn't come up?

Not gona lie, this one made me laugh haha.

Also, Epic levels don't exist in 5e, it would be a level 20 character with 10 epic boons.

[JackPhoenix]

if you can fight 6 Tarrasques a day without dying, you are presumably a level 30 character.

Eh, 6 Tarrasques are just as vulnerable to cheese as a single Tarrasque is, so unless there are objectives beyond just "fight Tarrasque and win", the same level 1 Aarakocra cleric works against either option.

[Amnestic]

They don't exist as written but it's not hard to imagine what being able to go beyond level 20 would look like.

You're not gonna give anyone any new class features, so they're forced to multiclass.
Spellslots don't scale beyond 20, so any additional fullcaster levels are 'wasted' for spellslot progression.
Proficiency bonus scales to +9 (equal to the Tarrasque at CR30).
Your ASIs are still capped at 20.
And that's about it. Ten extra levels of hit dice and some class features, potentially some extra spell slot levels depending on class choice, and a higher PB.

It's probably not drastically more potent than a level 20. Definitely more powerful obvs, but it'd mostly be broadening your powers rather than scaling up your existing ones.

[No brains]

A level 20 PC who noticed they accidentally put another line under the 2.

[PhantomSoul]

If increasing actual level not just giving boons, CTurbo's got a lot of good stuff... (I'll comment based mainly on extrapolating from existing patterns... I'm not convinced that's actually desirable!)


The reason level 30 doesn't exist in 5e is because there would be no enemy capable of posing a threat to a party of level 30 characters.

This!


Hot points increase like normal.

Sensible and simple, yupp


Proficiency bonus is +7 from levels 21-25 and +8 from levels 26-30.

Yupp, roughly follows the normal pattern... but heads up that obviously this increases a lot of things (and doubles up with Expertise...)

If just expanding the existing: +7 from 21 to 24; +8 from 25 to 28, +9 from 29 to 30. (PB=ceiling(level/4)+1)


2-3 more ASI/feats from 21-30.

Bit of weirdness from the level 19 ASI being at the "wrong" level (L20 follows pattern of being every 4 levels), but yeah, expect ~L24 (23 if going from the L19 ASI) and L28 (27 if going from the L19 ASI). Tossing in L30 as a new capstone isn't ridiculous... but at that point, you might not be as enthused about the ASI anyway!


Martials would get TWO more attacks from 21-30.

I'm guessing Rogues are excluded and maybe Monks make sense... but two attacks for non-Fighter martials otherwise doesn't seem as fitting. Then again, it's going beyond the epic levels anyway.


Casters would still gain spells slots as normal, but there would not be any 10th level spells. They'd top out at 14th level spells, but would have to up-cast lower level spells using those higher slots. (19d6 Fireball from the 14th level slot lol)(16D4+16 Magic Missile lol)

If doing this, it might be appealing to cap the number of castings of the highest-Level Spells instead of getting five 9th-Level-Spell Casting per day(LR), a bit like the Spell Points Variant giving explicit caps.


Cantrips would continue to scale up to probably 2 more damage dice by level 30.

Following the L5, L11, L17 pattern, at L23 and L30 would fit. ( FLOOR((level+1)/6)+1 )


At some point, each character would get Legendary Resistance and at least 1 Legendary Reaction maybe as a level 30 capstone.

Cool option


Monks would still gain ki with each level for a max of 30 ki. Probably increase their Martial Arts die to a d12.

(Grumbles at Monks not already reaching d12...) The increases match Cantrip die count increases, so that's a good benchmark and probably jumping into 2 smaller dice.


Barbarians would increase their little Rage damage to +5 or +6 and I'd probably increase Brutal Critical a couple more times since it's so weak.

Rage Damage increases are L9 and L16 (pfft), but using +7 does have the benefit of giving you a "capstone" increase (L23, then L30).
Brutal Critical is every four levels as of level 9, if wanting a starting point for deciding where the Feature goes in the progression.

[CTurbo]

If increasing actual level not just giving boons, CTurbo's got a lot of good stuff... (I'll comment based mainly on extrapolating from existing patterns... I'm not convinced that's actually desirable!)







Yupp, roughly follows the normal pattern... but heads up that obviously this increases a lot of things (and doubles up with Expertise...)

If just expanding the existing: +7 from 21 to 24; +8 from 25 to 28, +9 from 29 to 30. (PB=ceiling(level/4)+1)


I'm guessing Rogues are excluded and maybe Monks make sense... but two attacks for non-Fighter martials otherwise doesn't seem as fitting. Then again, it's going beyond the epic levels anyway.



If doing this, it might be appealing to cap the number of castings of the highest-Level Spells instead of getting five 9th-Level-Spell Casting per day(LR), a bit like the Spell Points Variant giving explicit caps.



(Grumbles at Monks not already reaching d12...) The increases match Cantrip die count increases, so that's a good benchmark and probably jumping into 2 smaller dice.




I already feel like +8 prof bonus is REALLY powerful so I was hesitant to go +9

I've always thought the Barbarian should get at least 1 more attack anyway. I'd definitely give them another past level 20. 2 more could be a bit much, but again, these are "epic" character levels we're talking about here. I can understand not giving Paladins and Ranger 2 more attacks although I'd at least give them 1 more. Maybe 1 more for them and 2 more for Barbs and Monks? A full extra attack doesn't really fit with the Rogue, but maybe an option like level 11 Gloom Stalker where they can re-roll a miss once per turn? The extra Bonus Action mentioned could also help make sure they land their one big hit each turn.

Fair point on the max number of high level spells. It'd be funny seeing full casters cast several 9th level spells in a day. lol

Yeah I can see Monks going from 1d10 to 1d12 to 2d6 in their damage die. 2d6 is such a small increase though over 1d12. Maybe 3d4 would be better? That's a lot of D4s lol

[Saelethil]

Yeah I can see Monks going from 1d10 to 1d12 to 2d6 in their damage die. 2d6 is such a small increase though over 1d12. Maybe 3d4 would be better? That's a lot of D4s lol

D12 @ 21, 2d8 @ 25ish, & 2d10 (or 1d20) @ 30. Is it a bit much? Maybe, but it’s level 30.