Decisions for my fighter-arty-rogue - Where to next?

[ThaddeusJenkins]

My beloved Sorcerer may be getting her happy ending soon, meaning I'll get the rare (for me) opportunity to bring in a new character at level 10. I've taken the chance to theorycraft some fun multiclass ideas and stumbled on something I really enjoy conceptually.

5 levels in Fighter (Battle master) to start, for the extra attack and key moves like Riposte

3 levels in Artificer (Artillerist) gets some good utility magic, skill usage, and a 2d8 Bonus Action attack

2 levels in Rogue to start scaling DPS (plus the lovely old Riposte Sneak Attack combo)

The playstyle I imagine would be something like the main character from Sekiro - Single handing a sword while dodging attacks and keeping a few tricks blasting from up their sleeve. Plus the damage feels consistently nice, with 2 attacks (with +2 from Dueling), plus a cannon shot (potentially hitting multiple targets), sneak attack and riposte for I think about 6d8+2d6+modifiers per round at peak.

Where would I take it from there though? Obviously continue into Rogue to carry on boosting SA dice, but im torn on subclass (Swashbuckler is obvious for easy SA, but makes it MAD). Maybe to level 5 for the lovely survivability skills and stop at 3d6 extra damage? 5 more into Fighter and aim for those supremacy dice? Maybe continue artificer or hop on Wizard for the spell slots?

Apologies if the post is a little too long and rambling, unfortunately posting from mobile so editing is limited. Also feel free to suggest what you'd do differently! It's not a perfect build, just a playstyle that caught my attention and is different to what I usually run.

Thank you!

[Kane0]

Youre not worried about your artillerist stuff interfering with cunning action?

[Catullus64]

Swashbuckler really doesn't make things MAD. Only two of its features scale off of Charisma - the Initiative bonus from toujours de l'audace which is nice but hardly vital to the subclass, and the charm feature at 9th Level, which you very well may not reach in this campaign anyway. I would say that it's a good choice, though getting even more tricksy options from AT or Phantom might be nifty. Dropping another level into Fighter to get a bonus ASI will really help with the character's wide spread.

Consider asking your DM whether you can choose to activate your Eldritch Cannon with a regular action instead of a Bonus Action, such that you can just treat it as your main ranged weapon (still only activating it once per turn). Just make it Tiny and treat it in all respects like a firearm.

[Aalbatr0ss]

I would say it's hard to go wrong here in terms of next steps.
When / how bad do you want your next couple feats / ASI's?
Art 5 gets you some real nice spells to have on a fighter. (See invis, web, spider climb).

Trajectory?
F11, A7, R2?
F6, A11, R3?
F5, A3, R12? Sure. That's a bad-ass rogue you've got there.

I think you're in a great position to choose as you go based on story / party needs / character evolution.

[stoutstien]

What do your stats look like? That would have a large influence on the value each class is bring to the table as far as advancement is concerned. As well as the estimated access to magical items. Lv 6-7 for artificer is arguably a massive boost all fronts depending on how your table handles magic items but without the INT FoG isn't worth it.

[Corran]

I'd aim for sentinel (in which case the swashbuckler loses some appeal as sentinel will want you fight next to an ally). Still keeping riposte mostly as a deterant against having enemies focus me. Riposte backs up sentinel in a way, even if ideally you dont want to end up using it at all (ideally you'll want to save your sp dice for precision, especially for those off turn single attacks; feinting, trip -especially on ranged attacks, and brace compete hard for a thied maneuver; I'd go with feinting as I would be looking more for situational vaue out of y 3rd maneuver, and cancelling disadvantage is the kind of situational boost I ould be looking for in a rogue). To make good use of either sentinel or riposte, you need at the very least a good AC (avoid reactions like the shield spell or like defensive duelist, as you want your reaction open ideally for sentinel, with riposte and uncanny dodge backing you when necessary). Not sure what the artificer can get you in terms of spells buffing AC (there's always the AT route for a rogue subclass; a familiar can give you advantage on your off turn sneak attacks, so that's something), but if you can get spells like shield of faith and blur, then get them. Mirror image too, although be wary that it can burn too fast and with little efficiency if up against multiple weak enemy individual attacks, so if you end up taking this you'll want to use it in certain specific situations. I'd change dueling to blind fighting and pair it with either fog cloud or darkness (which buffs your AC for the aforementioned purposes but more importantly it opens new possibilities for reaction sneak attack just by using OA's more reliably and without having to rely on becoming a target so that you can use sentinel, riposte or brace; but also it makes you more secure if for example you want to scout ahead of the party). If that's not your jam then I'd replace dueling for defense, as that +1 AC is more crucial IMO than an up to +6 dpr if you end up taking sentinel (cause dpr just lets you perform better, while AC may be the difference between working as intended or not for such a build).

Not sure how impactful these artificer levels would be, so not much to say on that (or how my suggestions are affected by the inclusion of artificer leves).

[TotallyNotEvil]

Maybe Fighter 6/Arty 5/Rogue 9? The fighter's bonus ASI keeps your total at the usual 5, you've got second level spells (and Arcane Firearm, makes for nicer cantrips if nothing else), and the second tier of Rogue features.

While Swashbuckler is the obvious pick, if going to 9th, Phantom could work well too, as that's a big break for it.

In your shoes, I'd probably get Rogue to 3 at 11th to Swashbuckle around, and then Fighter to 6 at 12 to keep the ASI train rolling. Then two levels of Arty, and finally finish with Rogue.

[ThaddeusJenkins]

Ah finally back in civilisation (or as close to it as you can get here), thanks for all the feedback.


Youre not worried about your artillerist stuff interfering with cunning action?
I don't think so - With the tools we've got available I think we're going to make a pretty effective frontline fighter without too much need for hiding or hit'n'run tactics. I'd think of them as more of useful options, because versatility is always good. In the same vein i've seen Fighter/Rogues making use of Shield Master and not missing out.


Swashbuckler really doesn't make things MAD *SNIP*
I think you make some good points here, you can totally go Swashbuckler without CHA and it even takes the pressure off of Cunning Action. The other obvious pick is Arcane Trickster but I might have to play a bit first and see what playstyle i settle into first. I'm not sure about Phantom, it's a rogue i really want to play some day, but it comes online very late.


When / how bad do you want your next couple feats / ASI's?
Art 5 gets you some real nice spells to have on a fighter. (See invis, web, spider climb).

Trajectory?
F11, A7, R2?
F6, A11, R3?
F5, A3, R12? Sure. That's a bad-ass rogue you've got there.

Maybe Fighter 6/Arty 5/Rogue 9? The fighter's bonus ASI keeps your total at the usual 5, you've got second level spells (and Arcane Firearm, makes for nicer cantrips if nothing else), and the second tier of Rogue features.
[...]
In your shoes, I'd probably get Rogue to 3 at 11th to Swashbuckle around, and then Fighter to 6 at 12 to keep the ASI train rolling. Then two levels of Arty, and finally finish with Rogue.

As far as breakpoints go i've had a few ideas. I think it's hard to go wrong no matter which path it goes down though.
- Fighter to 6 as soon as I need a feat/ASIs depending on what I roll for stats. Beelining for the level 11 Extra Attack is really tempting but i don't think it gives us much.
- Artificer to 5 is tempting for spells, but I don't think we're getting much out of the class ability. Arcane Firearm is cool with Shatter, but we're never going to be the room-clearer of the party. Still torn on it, but I wouldn't go any further though than that though, i think there are better ways of making an artificer.
- Rogue is worth taking to at LEAST 5, Uncanny Dodge is a great survivability option, and Sneak Attack is getting really good by then. It's probably the best class choice to take even further too, given we have mostly everything we want from the others (So maybe something like F5, A3, R12, or F6, A5, R9).

As far as feats go, we're going to have about 5 chances - Even needing ASIs, that's not bad for a multiclass. Some options that get my attention would be:
- Sentinel, as Corran says, it's extra sticky and gives more reaction opportunities (and we probably want to get close to allies anyway unless we go Swash)
- Magic Initiate or maybe Fey Touched, if we don't go AT. Rounds out our spell options and gets free casts with our limited slots.
- Metamagic Adept is my favourite feat and i'll find any excuse to use it. Gotta make the most of our limited spells.
- Ritual Caster gives some more utility - We can ritual cast Artificer spells already but there are barely any on the spell list which is a shame
- idk, Piercer keeps our average DPS higher i guess? I'm out of ideas