Brainstorming: Minion Recovery

[Skjaldbakka]

So, I just completed a mission that is 4-6 weeks of travel away from home base. On this mission, I created a few skeletons, with the intent of using them to meet the prereqs for Pale Master. The animate dead spell was scroll cast, and I left them in the desert for pick-up on the return trip (for some reason, the people in the country we were going to had issues with undead).

So, funny story- we wound up taking a ship back to home base, instead of walking back, so I am looking for a way to recover my skeletons. I am a level 5 sorcerer. I have 4,000gp, and the following spell list:
Charm Person, Ray of Enfeeblement, Parching Touch, Hesitate, Invisibility, Glitterdust, some 0 level spells. I can probably find people able to cast spells for me up to 9th-10th level (at NPC spellcasting costs). I have 1 month of down time before the next mission. No-one that casts spells for me needs to know why they are casting those spells for me (I have a +13 bluff to assist with this goal).

I am just now starting to look into a solution for this problem, as I found out we are taking a ship home tonight, and the game is tomorrow night.

Also, I have the knowledge geography to point out where my skeletons are on a map.

There is no teleportation magic in the setting, or any magic that relies on other planes (there are no other planes in the setting). There are also no clerics, paladins, or wizards.

EDIT- Can undead created via animate dead be tricked by illusions, magic mouth, or mundane attempts to emulate the caster's voice?

Idea # 1
Cost: 1,250 per skeleton
Scroll of Sending
I contact the skeleton with a sending, and order it to walk back. It should make it back in time, because it doesn't have to rest. I have the knowledge geography to pull this off, in theory.

[Altair_the_Vexed]

Good question.

Skeletons' INT is "-", so Sending won't work (you need at least 1 INT to understand the message). Skeletons can't be fooled by illusions, so I suspect that most similar spells won't work either.

Without teleportation, I think you're pretty screwed.

EDIT:
On the other hand... You could argue that the Animate Dead description only calls for you to speak your commands - it doesn't mention any range, or ability of the undead to hear you. We can argue that the skeletons - having no ears - cannot possibly hear you, so the spoken commands must merely be a verbal component of the spell's continuing function (which is listed as "indefinite"). Thus you only have to name your skeletons in some way to clearly identify them, and issue the command - and by the RAW, they will obey.

Now, you have to be prepared for you DM to refuse this. It may seem to work, but it really is a technical loop hole rather than the real intent of the rules.

[ZeroNumerous]

At that cost.. Why not just buy another scroll of animate dead?

[Emperor Demonking]

Charm the captain to go to the desert and then just go to your skeletons.

[Skjaldbakka]

I can't. There aren't any necromancers in the setting. I got the first scroll at character creation (justified by finding it in some ruin I explored or some such; we started at level 4).

The lack of necromancers or clerics in the setting being the inspiration for playing one, of course. Mordreth plans to be the first BBEG necromancer of the setting. Except as a PC.


Skeletons' INT is "-", so Sending won't work (you need at least 1 INT to understand the message).

I'm not so sure that is the case. The way I see it, Sending magically allows creatures of an int of at least one to understand the message. Normally, they would require a 3 INT to understand speech. Skeletons already have the ability to understand spoken commands, in spite of the lack of INT.

[Altair_the_Vexed]

See my post above for an edit that might help.

Darn simu-ninjas...

[dfpiii]

I don't think you can do it under those conditions.

I would suggest that you work with your DM and research a suitable spell that will allow you to contact any undead creature you have creted / under your power over distance. This will take some time, so you might want to send your skeletons to some other point and meet them there.

I'd actually be surprised if such a spell didn't exist somewhere already that you could use a template. at least something homebrewed.

[Skjaldbakka]

See my post above for an edit that might help.'

Just out of curiosity, if you were going to post anyway, why not just post the change?



I would suggest that you work with your DM and research a suitable spell that will allow you to contact any undead creature you have creted / under your power over distance. This will take some time, so you might want to send your skeletons to some other point and meet them there.

Researching spells as a sorcerer really, really, sucks. Heck, I'm jumping through hoops to get into the palemaster PrC mostly so I don't have to take Animate Dead as a sorcerer.

[Altair_the_Vexed]

Cause I'd already made the edit, and then seen that it might get buried in other replies.

Okay, it was silly. Sorry.

Incidentally, can your character not yet cast Animate Dead? Is this a factor of your caster level, or the absence of that spell from the wizard guild library (or whatever functional equivalent there is in your DM's setting)?
You only have to wait two levels to pick the spell to cast off your own list, see.

[Skjaldbakka]

Animate Dead is something I don't want on my spell list, because it is something I won't actually have to cast on a regular basis. Hence why I want to go into Palemaster, which gets Animate Dead as a spell-like ability 1/day. And some other stuff that isn't all that great, but that I am going to get anyway, since I loose a level of spellcasting at level 1, and not anywhere else.

Also, I would need to be level 8 to have animate dead.

[ZeroNumerous]

.. Uh.. You do realize Pale Master doesn't require Animate Dead, right?

You just need Skill Focus(Knowledge[Religion), Command Undead, and Vampiric Touch. It should only take two more levels before you hit Pale Master. (And to be completely honest, you're really not making a great choice for a necromancer PrC. If you can, ask your DM to rebuild as a Sorcerer/Favored Soul/True Necromancer.)

Getting your minions back: You can't, but you should take this as a reminder of what commands you should give.

"If I don't return, murder anything and everything that isn't me within a five mile radius."

EDIT: And while I'm thinking about it.. What necromancer doesn't cast Animate Dead on a regular basis? :smallconfused:

[Ne0]

I don't see why a magic mouth spell wouldn't work.

That'd bring it to, about 40 gp each? :smallconfused:

[bugsysservant]

I don't see why a magic mouth spell wouldn't work.

That'd bring it to, about 40 gp each? :smallconfused:

Magic Mouth has a range of close. To use it to summon the minions, you would have to be right next to them anyway.

Although, come to think of it, doesn't your familiar count as "you" for spells? If so, you could cast magic mouth on your familiar, send it out to find the zombies with the trigger for the mouth be their presence, and order them to return to you. It would take a while though. Is time an issue?

[Inyssius Tor]

Hell, even if you don't have a familiar, you could just grab a passing albatross (or something) and make it your familiar--if you can buy four scrolls of sending worth a total of five thousand gold, you can certainly buy "magical materials" worth one hundred. You could perform the ritual on the ship, so as not to waste any of the party's time.

[Attilargh]

Can be done for 320 gold pieces and two silvers:
Buy a Feather Token, Bird (300 gp).
Buy a piece of parchment (2 sp), and loan a pen and some ink.
Write nonsense on paper.
Find a Bard.
Hire Bard to cast Magic Mouth on paper (20 gp), with the appropriate message and trigger.
????
Profit!

[tainsouvra]

Skeletons can't be fooled by illusions, so I suspect that most similar spells won't work either. Yes they can be fooled by illusions. What made you think they couldn't?

On the other hand... You could argue that the Animate Dead description only calls for you to speak your commands - it doesn't mention any range, or ability of the undead to hear you. We can argue that the skeletons - having no ears - cannot possibly hear you, so the spoken commands must merely be a verbal component of the spell's continuing function (which is listed as "indefinite"). Thus you only have to name your skeletons in some way to clearly identify them, and issue the command - and by the RAW, they will obey. This is false. Monsters have human-like senses, regardless of the apparatus they actually sense with, per the rules.

[Fenix_of_Doom]

Yes they can be fooled by illusions. What made you think they couldn't?


A Skeleton is mindless, this gives certain immunities.

Intelligence

Any creature that can think, learn, or remember has at least 1 point of Intelligence. A creature with no Intelligence score is mindless, an automaton operating on simple instincts or programmed instructions. It has immunity to mind-affecting effects (charms, compulsions, phantasms, patterns, and morale effects) and automatically fails Intelligence checks.

Mindless creatures do not gain feats or skills, although they may have bonus feats or racial skill bonuses.



This is false. Monsters have human-like senses, regardless of the apparatus they actually sense with, per the rules.
I'm not sure if undead are monsters, I'll see what I can find in the SRD.

[tainsouvra]

Read up on your illusions :smallsmile:
Phantasms are the only form of illusion they are immune to--glamers and figments work exceptionally well on Skeletons, as they function normally and the subject lacks the intelligence to inspect them.


I'm not sure if undead are monsters, I'll see what I can find in the SRD. They are, and they have human-like senses unless otherwise stated (which it is not, for skeletons).

[bugsysservant]

Can be done for 320 gold pieces and two silvers:
Buy a Feather Token, Bird (300 gp).
Buy a piece of parchment (2 sp), and loan a pen and some ink.
Write nonsense on paper.
Find a Bard.
Hire Bard to cast Magic Mouth on paper (20 gp), with the appropriate message and trigger.
????
Profit!

[s]I don't think that works. Magic Mouth has a range of close so the bard would have to follow behind the paper. Range is defined as "A spell’s range is the maximum distance ]from you that the spell’s effect can occur, as well as the maximum distance at which you can designate the spell’s point of origin." so he can no more cast the spell and have it go off away from him than he can cast it miles away to begin with.

Of course, I know people who interpret range to mean the maximum distance from which the spell can be cast, but by RAW, I believe they are wrong.

Edit: Ignore the above. I believe a case could be made for it as a valid interpretation of RAW, but what would be the point?

More on topic, just hire a messenger They cost 2cp per mile so unless you are, what, 15,000 miles away this is cheaper, albeit slower.

[tainsouvra]

I don't think that works. Magic Mouth has a range of close so the bard would have to follow behind the paper. Range is defined as "A spell’s range is the maximum distance from you that the spell’s effect can occur, as well as the maximum distance at which you can designate the spell’s point of origin." so he can no more cast the spell and have it go off away from him than he can cast it miles away to begin with.

Of course, I know people who interpret range to mean the maximum distance from which the spell can be cast, but by RAW, I believe they are wrong. You are misunderstanding what "the spell's effect" means. When the spell is cast, that is when the spell's effect takes place. The effect may have a duration that it persists, but the effect has already occurred.

Edit: If you take your hand off someone, after having cast a spell with a range of "touch", does the spell end? :smallamused:

[bugsysservant]

You are misunderstanding what "the spell's effect" means. When the spell is cast, that is when the spell's effect takes place. The effect may have a duration that it persists, but the effect has already occurred.

Edit: If you take your hand off someone, after having cast a spell with a range of "touch", does the spell end? :smallamused:

Thank god I'm wrong, since I've never actually obeyed those rules. I was always a little confused about them since they are more than a little ambiguous.

[Fenix_of_Doom]

Read up on your illusions :smallsmile:
Phantasms are the only form of illusion they are immune to--glamers and figments work exceptionally well on Skeletons, as they function normally and the subject lacks the intelligence to inspect them.

They are, and they have human-like senses unless otherwise stated (which it is not, for skeletons).

You are right, except that a pattern(like colour spray) is also mind effecting.
(My quote from the SRD above actually says exactly that, immune to phantoms and pattrens :smallamused: )

My first response still stands however, the reason I stated probably is the reason why Altair thought undead couldn't be fooled by illusions.:smallbiggrin:

and yes Undead are mosters, I think it's weird that they have human-like senses, but I can understand why it's there: convenience.

[Attilargh]

On second thought, you might need a scroll of Magic Mouth, as the skeleton's probably won't obey the Bard's voice. That sets the price of the whole process at the somewhat hefty 460 gp and two silvers.