A sword beam magical sword like in the Zelda games.

[Petrocorus]

Hello every one.

I'd like to introduce a magical sword inspire by the sword beam from the Zelda games into my current game.
But i'm not sure how to balance it.

I was thinking about a +1 longsword that would simply allow melee attacks to done at 20 or 30 ft. Just like if it had a reach of 20 or 30 ft.
1d8 +1 +Str at 30 ft doesn't seems that powerful, even with Extra Attacks, but i'm concerned with all the potential combinations with manoeuvrers, smites, and other features.

How would you implement it?

[Angelalex242]

First, the sword only shoots beams if the player is at full health. If he loses even one hit point, no more beams.

But other than that...I believe the sword beams don't hit as hard as the actual sword. It's been a while since I checked the game mechanics of old Zelda games though.

If you use Link to the Past, the Master Sword even has upgrades.

You can take it to two dwarven smiths to temper the blade (And now it's +2).

Then you can throw it in a fairy fountain (And now it's +3!)

[GooeyChewie]

But other than that...I believe the sword beams don't hit as hard as the actual sword. It's been a while since I checked the game mechanics of old Zelda games though.


It depends on the game. In the original the beam was the same damage as the regular sword. In The Adventures of Link it was the same damage, but didn’t hit certain enemies at all (making it fairly useless after a certain point). Starting with A Link to the Past the beams generally did less damage.


I think having it allow melee attacks at 20 feet or so sounds great. Maybe it can replace one attack each action? Let it do Force damage and that can make it feel more special, especially if throw some enemies which are resistant to B/P/S or vulnerable to Force.

Edit: I've also used Sword of Warning as the Master Sword, specifically from Skyward Sword. The warning part came from Fi, who also served as the patron for the character (Hexblade).

[Angelalex242]

If it's meant to be the Master Sword, I'd have it do some Radiant Damage too.

"Sword of Evil's Bane" and all that.

The fully upgraded Master Sword may be a Holy Avenger that shoots beams if you have full health.

[Petrocorus]

It doesn't need to be an exact representation of the Master Sword. I just like the idea of a sword allowing to attack at range and this is what i'm trying to implement.
My concern is less about being faithful to the Zelda games and more about making it balanced in my D&D games.

[loki_ragnarock]

It doesn't need to be an exact representation of the Master Sword. I just like the idea of a sword allowing to attack at range and this is what i'm trying to implement.
My concern is less about being faithful to the Zelda games and more about making it balanced in my D&D games.

It is a tremendous boon to less mobile classes that use swords, like fighters, barbarians, and paladins.

It's nice for barbarians, as it makes less likely to lose rage early. It's nice for fighters, because ending just shy of base to base is always a drag for the melee specs. Paladins tend to have a weaker ranged game, it's one of their exceedingly few weak areas, and it's just been solved.

If you are just letting them melee attack at range... well, as a longsword (probably, I think Link is depicted with a shield most times) then you don't have to worry about GWM or Sharpshooter being applicable as hardcore damage boosters, but if it counts as a melee attack at range a paladin could smite from 30ft away. If you're comfortable with that, cool. If you aren't, then just call it a ranged weapon attack and smite becomes incompatible. Which seems reasonable, given it's automatically incompatible with the other two major damage boosters.

It frees up from some positioning worries and leaves melee types less likely to feel like they've wasted their turn by forcing them to dash for the last 10 ft they needed to close with the enemy otherwise.

It's basically fine.

[heavyfuel]

I think that allowing free ranged attacks isn't at all OP, but there are a few things to consider:

1 - Sharpshooter. If it's a ranged weapon attack, can they use it with SS?

2 - If it's the same attack and damage at a range, why would they move up to melee?

I think that given the option to attack at a range, there's little incentive for players to move around the battlefield. This isn't a terrible thing, but it might make regular combat even more boring. Instead of "I move and attack" it's now "I attack". And that's a snoozefest waiting to happen.

Making it ever-so-slightly weaker might be all you need to do. Make the attack deal damage equal to 1 smaller die (d8 -> d6). It's only 1 less damage on average, but it's enough that players will still want to melee when possible

[GooeyChewie]

It doesn't need to be an exact representation of the Master Sword. I just like the idea of a sword allowing to attack at range and this is what i'm trying to implement.
My concern is less about being faithful to the Zelda games and more about making it balanced in my D&D games.

In that case, I think having the beam sword replace a single attack in the action is enough to keep it balanced. That way they can't just hide behind a rock and treat it like a ranged weapon if they want all their attacks, but it still does something cool if they can't quite reach an enemy or have multiple opponents and want to split attacks. I'd still go with changing the damage type of the special attack to Force or Radiant, to make it feel even more distinct without giving too much actual power (unless you want to highlight it and pull in particular vulnerabilities specifically for it).

[RogueJK]

I think that allowing free ranged attacks isn't at all OP, but there are a few things to consider:
1 - Sharpshooter. If it's a ranged weapon attack, can they use it with SS?


It could be a melee attack at 20-30' range. Similar to Thorn Whip. Or a polearm with 20-30' range instead of 10'.

(Keep in mind a 20' melee attack is only 5' further than a Bugbear with a polearm/whip.)

[Willie the Duck]

To reduce the concern about interaction effects, why not just make it act as a melee weapon with the thrown property (maybe short range 20', long range 30'), just with the special effect that the weapon doesn't actually leave your hand (and thus you can use for all your attacks, don't have to worry about drawing another, etc.)?

[PhantomSoul]

I think that allowing free ranged attacks isn't at all OP, but there are a few things to consider:

1 - Sharpshooter. If it's a ranged weapon attack, can they use it with SS?


And worth separating:

1a: Attacking at long range doesn't impose disadvantage on your ranged weapon attack rolls.

Unaffected unless you give short/long ranges.

1b: Your ranged weapon attacks ignore half cover and three-quarters cover.

"At risk" (this is the only aspect that cares about melee vs. ranged weapon attack for the sword, rather than melee vs. ranged weapon.)

1c: Before you make an attack with a ranged weapon that you are proficient with, you can choose to take a -5 penalty to the attack roll. If the attack hits, you add + 10 to the attack's damage.

By default, not affected unless you also turn it into a ranged weapon.

[ImproperJustice]

You can just reflavor a Dwarven Thrower as a long sword, then have it be attuned by whatever race or alignment (“Only the pure of heart may touch the master sword), and then have it gain the bonus damage value against whatever creature type best fits your world as its bane.

Like the servants of Gorlon or whatever.

[Petrocorus]

It is a tremendous .... enemy otherwise.


I think that allowing free ranged attacks isn't at all OP, but there are a few things to consider:.....
Those are exactly the kind of interactions i may not foresee and i'm concerned about.
Thank you for spelling this down.


Which seems reasonable, given it's automatically incompatible with the other two major damage boosters
I'm not sure i understand this line though.


I'd still go with changing the damage type of the special attack to Force or Radiant, .
I was thinking about thunder damage because in my mind the strike is transmitted by the air itself, like a vibration. I think i got this from some wuxia movies.


To reduce the concern about interaction effects, why not just make it act as a melee weapon with the thrown property (maybe short range 20', long range 30'), just with the special effect that the weapon doesn't actually leave your hand (and thus you can use for all your attacks, don't have to worry about drawing another, etc.)?


You can just reflavor a Dwarven Thrower as a long sword, then have it be attuned by whatever race or alignment (“Only the pure of heart may touch the master sword), and then have it gain the bonus damage value against whatever creature type best fits your world as its bane.
That seems to be an interesting way to go. Making it a range weapon attack would limit most of the interactions apparently.
From Heavyfuel's and Loki's posts, i got that this render the sword compatible with SS but incompatible with smite and the more common melee damage boost.
Since it's a longsword, it has to be used on a strength build (or a kensei), so SS would be a rather heavy cost.

If i understand correctly, it's perfectly possible to make several attacks with the Dwarven Thrower, so reflavoring it with the sword not leaving the hand is not a big deal?

Would a range of 30 ft be reasonable or should i limit it to 20 ft?

[Falconcry]

While at full health the sword allows the casting of Eldritch Blast with Con as spell attack mod. Usable 2 x proficiency per long rest.

[Dork_Forge]

Personally I'd just let it do something akin to the 4E Monk's Fangs of the Fire Snake, give it some charges, and when you spend one the range increases and the damage becomes radiant, job done.

[Willie the Duck]

That seems to be an interesting way to go. Making it a range weapon attack would limit most of the interactions apparently.
From Heavyfuel's and Loki's posts, i got that this render the sword compatible with SS but incompatible with smite and the more common melee damage boost.
Since it's a longsword, it has to be used on a strength build (or a kensei), so SS would be a rather heavy cost.
I chose melee weapon with thrown property so as not to invoke SS, but I guess it could be a ranged throwing weapon too. Your call.

[GooeyChewie]

The big caveat with making it a ranged weapon is that it becomes eligible for Sneak Attack.

[chiefwaha]

My solution would be to reflavor a dancing sword. Or if that doesn't quite do what you want, at least it's a decent baseline to start from as it's an already published magic item.

[Segev]

Treat it as if it has the Thrown tag, but never has to leave your hand. I think that will be the simplest way to make sure you have all the interactions already handled by other rulings that must be made anyway.

[Bobthewizard]

I flavor my hexblade's Eldritch Blast as this. He swings his sword and shimmering light comes out from the sword, attacking his enemies.

[Petrocorus]

I chose melee weapon with thrown property so as not to invoke SS, but I guess it could be a ranged throwing weapon too. Your call.
Yes. I see i mixed ranged weapon attack with range attack with a weapon.
A range attack with a melee weapon will not trigger SS, nor smite, nor many thing else.


Treat it as if it has the Thrown tag, but never has to leave your hand. I think that will be the simplest way to make sure you have all the interactions already handled by other rulings that must be made anyway.
I think i'm going with this.
Now i need to word this the proper way.


I flavor my hexblade's Eldritch Blast as this. He swings his sword and shimmering light comes out from the sword, attacking his enemies.
I though about this, it would have been simpler, but it doesn't feel like what i'm looking for.

[Petrocorus]

OK, here i am.
Do you think the wording and grammar are correct.

War Masters Hunting Sword (It sound better in French)
Weapon (longsword), legendary (requires attunement by a non-evil barbarian, fighter, monk, paladin or ranger)

You gain a +1 bonus to attack and damage rolls made with this magic weapon.
While you are attuned with the sword, you can make range attack with it. By striking the air, you can hurl a translucent sonic replica of the sword towards you target. You treat the sword as if it had the Thrown property, it has a range of 30 ft and it make thunder damages instead of slashing damages when you make range attack with it.
If you use the sword in any way against a Knight of the Kingdom of Havindr, you take 2d6 thunder damages and lose you attunement with it.

[Bobthewizard]

OK, here i am.
Do you think the wording and grammar are correct.

War Masters Hunting Sword (It sound better in French)
Weapon (longsword), legendary (requires attunement by a non-evil barbarian, fighter, monk, paladin or ranger)

You gain a +1 bonus to attack and damage rolls made with this magic weapon.
While you are attuned with the sword, you can make range attack with it. By striking the air, you can hurl a translucent sonic replica of the sword towards you target. You treat the sword as if it had the Thrown property, it has a range of 30 ft and it make thunder damagesinstead of slashing damages when you make range attack with it.
If you use the sword in any way against a Knight of the Kingdom of Havindr, you take 2d6 thunder damages and lose you attunement with it.


Your English is much better than my tourist French! But here are some grammar suggestions.

War Masters Hunting Sword (It sound better in French)
Weapon (longsword), legendary (requires attunement by a non-evil barbarian, fighter, monk, paladin or ranger)

You gain a +1 bonus to attack and damage rolls made with this magic weapon.
While you are attuned with the sword, you can make ranged attacks with it. By striking the air, you can hurl a translucent sonic replica of the sword towards you target. You treat the sword as if it had the Thrown property, it has a range of 30 ft and it make deals thunder damages instead of slashing damages when you make ranged attack with it.
If you use the sword in any way against to attack a Knight of the Kingdom of Havindr, you take 2d6 thunder damages and lose your attunement with it.

You might want to add another bullet. *The translucent sword vanishes immediately after it hits or misses its target.

I'm curious. What is the name of the sword in French?

[Segev]

Your English is much better than my tourist French! But here are some grammar suggestions.

War Masters Hunting Sword (It sound better in French)
Weapon (longsword), legendary (requires attunement by a non-evil barbarian, fighter, monk, paladin or ranger)

You gain a +1 bonus to attack and damage rolls made with this magic weapon.
While you are attuned with the sword, you can make ranged attacks with it. By striking the air, you can hurl a translucent sonic replica of the sword towards you target. You treat the sword as if it had the Thrown property, it has a range of 30 ft and it make deals thunder damages instead of slashing damages when you make ranged attack with it.
If you use the sword in any way against to attack a Knight of the Kingdom of Havindr, you take 2d6 thunder damages and lose your attunement with it.

You might want to add another bullet. *The translucent sword vanishes immediately after it hits or misses its target.

I'm curious. What is the name of the sword in French?

In addition, you should note that you do not need to release the sword and are still wielding it when you throw the replica. That said, assuming this is for a home game and you're DMing, the implicit understanding that that's how it works is probably sufficient.

[Yakk]

I'd remove the +1 bonus. Those are boring.

Beam Sword (Requires Attunement, Uncommon+)
This longsword deals an extra 1d4 (1d8 Rare, 2d6 Very Rare, 2d8 Legendary) radiant damage when you hit with it. When you take the attack action, you can melee weapon attacks with an extended reach of up to 20', dealing the sword's radiant damage dice.

[Petrocorus]

Your English is much better than my tourist French! But here are some grammar suggestions.

Thank you.



War Masters Hunting Sword (It sound better in French)
Weapon (longsword), legendary (requires attunement by a non-evil barbarian, fighter, monk, paladin or ranger)

You gain a +1 bonus to attack and damage rolls made with this magic weapon.
While you are attuned with the sword, you can make ranged attacks with it. By striking the air, you can hurl a translucent sonic replica of the sword towards you target. You treat the sword as if it had the Thrown property, it has a range of 30 ft and it make deals thunder damages instead of slashing damages when you make ranged attack with it.
If you use the sword in any way against to attack a Knight of the Kingdom of Havindr, you take 2d6 thunder damages and lose your attunement with it.

Gosh. I always have a problem with plurals. In both French and English. (And you don't want to see my Portuguese.)



You might want to add another bullet. *The translucent sword vanishes immediately after it hits or misses its target.

Right



I'm curious. What is the name of the sword in French?
Épée de Chasse des Maîtres de Guerre. Literal translation.
It's a bit long but it gives some old fashion noble sounding.


In addition, you should note that you do not need to release the sword and are still wielding it when you throw the replica. That said, assuming this is for a home game and you're DMing, the implicit understanding that that's how it works is probably sufficient.
Thanks.

I always use English as a reference for DD5 (which i don't need for other games) because the official French translation is less than stellar.
French Battlemasters in the PHB recover their superiority dice on long rest only, for instance.

War Masters' Hunting Sword
Weapon (longsword), legendary (requires attunement by a non-evil barbarian, fighter, monk, paladin or ranger)

You gain a +1 bonus to attack and damage rolls made with this magic weapon.
While you are attuned with the sword, you can make ranged attacks with it. By striking the air, you can hurl a translucent sonic replica of the sword towards you target. You treat the sword as if it had the Thrown property, though it doesn't leave you hand, it has a range of 30 ft and it deals thunder damage instead of slashing damage when you make ranged attack with it. The translucent réplica vanishes immediately after it hits or misses its target.
If you use the sword to attack a Knight of the Kingdom of Havindr, you take 2d6 thunder damage and lose your attunement with it.

I had much less problem when i did the Chainmail Bikini as a joke on a thread here. Probably because i didn't care for balance.