D&D 5e Base Class Contest XIX: Doesn't Meet Expectations II (Open to All)

[MoleMage]

Welcome to the chat thread for the nineteenth Base Class Competition for D&D 5e. If you wish to say anything about the competition which is neither a submission nor a vote, then it belongs here. You do not need to be a contestant to post here. You are allowed to critique a competitor’s work and offer suggestions on how to improve their homebrew through this thread, but it is preferred if you do so through that class’ specific thread (if applicable).

Remember folks, anyone can make a submission, and anyone can comment regardless of whether they've made a submission. The only registration is posting a link on the submission thread.

Note for returning contestents: I've reduced the length of this contest from 8 weeks to 6 weeks. While the extra time seemed nice at first, I think we are all (especially me) submitting in the first four weeks and then losing track of the contest. A shorter contest should hopefully give us enough time to complete submissions but not so much that we forget entirely about finishing our stuff.

Submission Thread: Doesn't Meet Expectations II (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?644495-D-amp-D-5e-Base-Class-Contest-XIX-Doesn-t-Meet-Expectations-II-(Submission-Thread))
Voting Thread: May 23rd

1st contest: Who Needs Swords or Sorcery? (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?556338-D-amp-D-5e-Base-Class-Contest-I-Who-needs-Swords-OR-Sorcerery), won by WarrentheHero with the Inventor

2nd contest: Expect a low Margin of Terror (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?560208-D-amp-D-5e-Base-Class-Contest-II-expect-a-low-Margin-of-Terror), Won by Mourne with the Sleepwalker

3rd Contest: The Elements, and not the Periodic Ones (Probably?) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?565360-D-amp-D-5e-Base-Class-Contest-III-The-Elements-and-not-the-periodic-ones-(probably-)!), won By Pygmybatrider with The Shaman

4th contest: Does Not Meet Expectations (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?570496-D-amp-D-5e-Base-Class-Contest-IV-Does-Not-Meet-Expectations), won with a tie by Molemage with the Destined and Pygmybatrider's Mesmer

5th contest: Time to Chill out (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?576131-D-amp-D-5e-Base-Class-Contest-V-Time-to-Chill-Out&p=23567807#post23567807), won by Molemage with the Wintreborn

6th contest: The Monster Mash (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?581138-D-amp-D-5e-Base-Class-Contest-VI-The-Monster-Mash), won with a three-way tie by Molemage with the Golem, theVoidWatches with the Lycanthrope, and daemonaetae with the Elemental Scion

7th contest: Remix Mastery (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?587919-D-amp-D-Base-Class-Contest-VII-Remix-Mastery&p=23906232#post23906232), won by KOLE with the Ranger Remixed

8th contest: Contest VIII: Magic Without Slots (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?594571-D-amp-D-Base-Class-Contest-VIII-Magic-Without-Slots&p=24070927#post24070927), won by MoleMage with the Cultist

9th contest: It's Time for Time (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?600537-D-amp-D-5e-Base-Class-Contest-IX-It-s-Time-for-Time&p=24361802#post24361802), won by MoleMage with the Clockwinder

10th contest: Blast from the Past (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?606841-D-amp-D-5e-Base-Class-Contest-X-Blast-from-the-Past), won by PairO'DiceLost with the Martial Adept

11th contest: Contest XI: Signature Creation (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?612097-D-amp-D-5e-Base-Class-Contest-XI-Signature-Creation&p=24502355#post24502355) won by MoleMage with the Chef

12th contest: Contest XII: Hybrid Vigor (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?616515-D-amp-D-5e-Base-Class-Contest-XII-Hybrid-Vigor) won by MoleMage with the Witch

13th contest: Based in Science (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?620836-D-amp-D-5e-Base-Class-Contest-XIII-Based-in-Science) won by Old Harry MTX with the Pilot

14th contest: Contest XIV: Monster Mash II (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?624969-D-amp-D-5e-Base-Class-Contest-XIV-Monster-Mash-II&p=24871549#post24871549) won by BerzerkerUnit with the Beheld.

15th contest: Contest XV: Partial Casters (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?628967-D-amp-D-5e-Base-Class-Contest-XV-Partial-Casters) won by Damon_Tor with the Spellslinger.

16th contest: Divine Judgment (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?633671-D-amp-D-5e-Base-Class-Contest-XVI-Divine-Judgment) won by BerzerkerUnit with the Forsaken.

17th contest: Who Needs Swords or Sorcery II (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?637228-D-amp-D-5e-Base-Class-Contest-XVII-Who-Needs-Swords-or-Sorcery-II) won by sengmeng with the Dungeoncrasher.

18th contest: Expect a Low Margin of Terror II (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?641461-D-amp-D-5e-Base-Class-Contest-XVIII-Expect-a-Low-Margin-of-Terror-II-(Submission-Thread)&p=25334235#post25334235) won by Breccia with the Dreadsoldier.



1) The class you homebrew should fit the theme. You can interpret the theme as broadly as you like without risk of disqualification, but doing so may reduce your chances of earning votes during the voting period.
2) You may only create one base class. If you create more than one class then you must choose which one to enter and remove all the others from this thread and the contest (making them invalid) . If you do not specify which one you favor by the time voting begins, all of your content is invalid.
3) When you submit your class you must create a post on this thread which either has the content or holds a link to it. You may also optionally create one other individual thread for your class on the homebrew design sub-forum. If it is found that you have revealed your class on another site or on another thread than one on the homebrew design sub-forum, your entry will be considered invalid. If you do make a specific thread for you class, please mention its involvement to the competition in that thread. If you use external formatting resources such as Homebrewery, or GMBinder it is recommended that you also create a PDF of the content and share it here.
4) You may use other homebrew content (such as feats, spells, magical items and monsters) or even features to supplement your class, provided you have permission from the original creator and provide links to the source. Failure to receive permission from the original creation will disqualify you from entry in the current contest.
5) Your class must have fully completed mechanics and descriptions for it to be valid. Entries are due by 11:59 PM Central Time on the deadline. Any submissions after this point are invalid. No changes can be made to your class while voting is taking place. Failure to comply with the previous rule will result in disqualification.
6) Any content which has been declared invalid by the rules above cannot be voted for, but you may decide to remove it from the contest and create another class instead. If you are disqualified then you are not allowed to enter any more homebrew for this competition, though you may still vote and later enter the next competition.
7) Please note that misunderstandings occur, if you break a rule which results in disqualification it might be excused if you can convince the group that it was a result of confusion over the rules.

Contests stay up for 86 weeks unless an extension is requested by participants. Voting threads then go up for 3 weeks before the next contest begins.


Dragons (What it says on the face.)
Heroes from Myths (Take a specific figure from myth, folklore, or cultural stories, like Heracles or the Monkey King or even Paul Bunyan, and make it a class.)
Other Media (Games, books, comics, movies, music, theater, even other TTRPGS).
Breakfast Cereal Mascots (Current or historical.)
Be Your Own Class (Turn an existing subclass into a feature-complete base class of its own.)
Not in Kansas Anymore (You can't use the same core damage or spell progression as any of the core classes.)

Also note that themes that have not been used in at least six contests (anything up to Hybrid Vigor, except Who Needs Swords and Sorcery, Terror, Monster Mash, and Doesn't Meet Expectations) are also eligible for being chosen.

[Snowben Gaming]

Subscription.

[tzurk]

This is a tricky theme!

Struggling to come up with ideas - maybe a Strength/Dexterity based “caster” who uses spell slots to do non-magical things like run faster, jump higher, hit harder? Call it a Conduit or something, who channels magical power into and through their bodies. The “grappler” class?

With smite existing already (and especially Oath of Glory pally) that seems a major overlap though.

Anyway, some initial thoughts:

- halfcaster, access to unarmed fighting style for good feels and extra attack for grapple + shove

- expend spell slot to do other things than damage because thats just Smite - maybe add to hit roll, ability checks, movement speed, self heal (although then thats just combat wild shape!), maybe use a spell slot when attacking to disengage? Expend a spell slot for initiative boost?

- subclasses focussing on offence, defence, buffing

- is this just a battlemaster with spell slots instead or superiority dice?

- maybe a non-combat “class” like merchant or farmer or something? That is unexpected in DND. Maybe a fisherman - rod, net and pot subclasses…

- I dunno this one is hard! Good luck to everyone who decides to jump on board!

[BerzerkerUnit]

Alright, concept posted. Here’s some brainstorming:

Subclasses are centered on how you feel about the party: Favor, Interest, Curse

I recently cultivated some house rules for a game about monarchs, I think they can be adapted to class features for this.

You have Treasures, Servitors, and challenges/tests.

If you curse the party, your servitors are nemeses, if you have casual or fickle interest, your servitors are Rivals, and if you favor them you place boon companions in their path.

One or more of these will have a “Lost Love” option where your love can periodically cast Dream to guide you to their location.

In order to give a party a boon ally or treasure you have to face them with a challenge. Challenges are a limited daily resource. Depending on how you god, they might be the same thing, like a swordsman that challenges the fighter to a duel and then joins the party if defeated.

Whenever the DM declares there’s an encounter you can attempt to add challenge to the encounter, the more challenge you add the more treasures or mightier allies you can grant.

Adding a hyena to a gnoll encounter might allow you to add a Lion as a temporary ally or add a handful of GP to party coffers. This is a pure points system where your treasures and servitors have a value and in order to grant them you have to put an equivalent CR worth of challenges in front of the party.

Party actions can trigger specific miracles or revelations.

Original name for this was “co DM” but I decided the Clash of the Titans motif was a little more fun.

[MoleMage]

Thinking of maybe doing some sort of transformation class with two hit point pools; a normal one and one based on a mental stat. Haven't settled on a theme yet.

[Old Harry MTX]

Alright, concept posted. Here’s some brainstorming:

Subclasses are centered on how you feel about the party: Favor, Interest, Curse

I recently cultivated some house rules for a game about monarchs, I think they can be adapted to class features for this.

You have Treasures, Servitors, and challenges/tests.

If you curse the party, your servitors are nemeses, if you have casual or fickle interest, your servitors are Rivals, and if you favor them you place boon companions in their path.

One or more of these will have a “Lost Love” option where your love can periodically cast Dream to guide you to their location.

In order to give a party a boon ally or treasure you have to face them with a challenge. Challenges are a limited daily resource. Depending on how you god, they might be the same thing, like a swordsman that challenges the fighter to a duel and then joins the party if defeated.

Whenever the DM declares there’s an encounter you can attempt to add challenge to the encounter, the more challenge you add the more treasures or mightier allies you can grant.

Adding a hyena to a gnoll encounter might allow you to add a Lion as a temporary ally or add a handful of GP to party coffers. This is a pure points system where your treasures and servitors have a value and in order to grant them you have to put an equivalent CR worth of challenges in front of the party.

Party actions can trigger specific miracles or revelations.

Original name for this was “co DM” but I decided the Clash of the Titans motif was a little more fun.

This could potentially be pure gold

[BerzerkerUnit]

This could potentially be pure gold

I'm looking forward to your feedback once I have some more concrete concepts down. As is it's likely going to require a subsystem and historically, those are like voter-antiviagra since most look at a few pages of rules and their eyes glaze over.

[MoleMage]

I've started brainstorming some ideas. I'm not sure whether either will pan out but I've posted two likelies in the submission thread:

The Phantasm is a dream-based class that shifts between a "normal" form that grants a variety of support abilities and a "apparition" form that is more combat-oriented. Each form has its own hit point pool, but they share a resource called Lucidity.

The Adept is a magic-using class, but instead of spells, they create spell-like weapons with limited charges or ammunition, a la tomes from Fire Emblems in the GBA/GCN era.

[Damon_Tor]

Work on the Band carries on apace. I would be interested in first impressions and ideas.

I don't love the name yet. I called it "The Squad" when I first started writing it, but that's a modernism I'm not happy with either.

[sengmeng]

I have gotten the Paragon to the level of bare bones playable, still with no clear idea of what he is supposed to be. PEACHes more than welcome.

[Damon_Tor]

I have gotten the Paragon to the level of bare bones playable, still with no clear idea of what he is supposed to be. PEACHes more than welcome.

It reminds me of the d20 modern attribute-oriented classes, which is a good thing. It is really front-heavy as you've written it, which seems to make it multiclass bait: maybe spread out some of the first-level features between the first three or five levels.

[Damon_Tor]

It reminds me of the d20 modern attribute-oriented classes, which is a good thing. It is really front-heavy as you've written it, which seems to make it multiclass bait: maybe spread out some of the first-level features between the first three or five levels.

Looking at it further:
I like the extra ASIs they get, but I suppose I'm not as thrilled about the fact that those won't be applying to their picked attribute past the second or third one, which just makes them feat masters. I'm going to suggest you lift the limit on the relevant attribute (but probably not con) at lower levels (+2 at 8 and 16 feels right to me, or even +2 at 12 as well for a total max of 26) and rethink the capstone. I also have some concerns with how this steps on the toes of a fighter: even more ASIs than a fighter, even more (and better) fighting styles.

I kind of feel like there are two flavors here, and sometimes they work okay together and sometimes they don't:
1. The best at doing stuff related to X attribute.
2. Can use X attribute to do stuff normally reserved for another attribute.

If it were me I would lean harder into flavor 1 and dial back flavor 2. For example, my preference would be for the str exemplar to be great at grapples and melee combat, but I feel the push toward making them ranged/melee combo fighters feels off. Similarly the ability for dex exemplars to use greataxes with Dex doesn't feel right: I'd much rather they get fun ways to use acrobatics in combat or something more intrinsically dex related.

[Old Harry MTX]

This is a tricky theme!

Struggling to come up with ideas - maybe a Strength/Dexterity based “caster” who uses spell slots to do non-magical things like run faster, jump higher, hit harder? Call it a Conduit or something, who channels magical power into and through their bodies. The “grappler” class?

With smite existing already (and especially Oath of Glory pally) that seems a major overlap though.

Anyway, some initial thoughts:

- halfcaster, access to unarmed fighting style for good feels and extra attack for grapple + shove

- expend spell slot to do other things than damage because thats just Smite - maybe add to hit roll, ability checks, movement speed, self heal (although then thats just combat wild shape!), maybe use a spell slot when attacking to disengage? Expend a spell slot for initiative boost?

- subclasses focussing on offence, defence, buffing

- is this just a battlemaster with spell slots instead or superiority dice?

I had an identical idea some time ago, but I never finished writing.
The risk of overlapping the battlemaster is very high, if not inevitable, but it can still be interesting. In my opinion, if you decide to take this path, you should focus on solving what is the main problem of features such as maneuvers and metamagic options: The fact that the player tends to choose the strongest ones at low levels, leaving the least attractive to the highest. With a system of "maneuvers" divided into levels and schools (like spells), you would solve this problem and you would have much more design space to create very strong ones.

Subclasses are another problem, as the concept doesn't allow for much digression, but the most obvious solutions might be:

Warrior. the only one who gains proficiency in heavy armor, access to all melee and defense maneuvers (for self and for allies).
Archer. Access to all ranged and crowd control maneuvers.
Captain. Access to all command, incitement and intimidation maneuvers. It would be cool to invent a "strategic" system, which allows you to earn bonuses if you manage to perform some particular action, such as pincer maneuvers, encirclement, etc (a middleground between chess and warhammer...). However, it risks becoming really complicated to make.


- maybe a non-combat “class” like merchant or farmer or something? That is unexpected in DND. Maybe a fisherman - rod, net and pot subclasses…

- I dunno this one is hard! Good luck to everyone who decides to jump on board!

The merchant class is another guilty pleasure of many, but I think it's really hard to make it fun to play... Maybe implementing some board game mechanics could get interesting, but you risk having a player playing his own game while the others play D&D ...


Work on the Band carries on apace. I would be interested in first impressions and ideas.

I don't love the name yet. I called it "The Squad" when I first started writing it, but that's a modernism I'm not happy with either.

I gave it a quick read and it looks good to me. Could there be some shenanigans healing a Band member in the rear?
The fact that the members of the Band share their actions should solve a lot of problems, but I would like to see a lot more possibilities of synergic actions between them, beyond the simple shared Extra Attack. Maybe you could replace Extra Attack with something like Extra Action, giving the option to take the Dodge or Dash action in place of making an attack, or create a whole series of maneuvers to do together if a sufficent number of Band's member are close enough or in a suitable position.


I have gotten the Paragon to the level of bare bones playable, still with no clear idea of what he is supposed to be. PEACHes more than welcome.

I am a bit torn on this class. On the one hand, I find it very well written (perhaps the only problem is a bit of repetition in the structure of the subclasses, it seems a bit like a homework), and I would say that it perfectly develops the idea you had. On the other hand, maybe it is a bit uninteresting, it reminds me of a generic class, even more than a Fighter or a Wizard...

But I can't say that on the whole I don't like it.

About the design, I see a possible problem. You give proficiency in Constitution saving throws, and an additional proficiency based on the subclass you choose. In general, it would be good to never give proficiency together on Constitution, Dexterity and Wisdom saving throws, since they are considered to be the ones that recur most frequently (although this class, not having to make Concentration checks, may not have this problem, but it doesn't change that giving proficiency in Dexterity or Wisdom is stronger than in any other case).
Personally, I would approach the problem like this: 3 "main" subclasses, each based on Dexterity, Wisdom or Constitution, and 3 "secondary" subclasses (similar to the warlock's Pact Boons), each based on Strength, Intelligence or Charisma. The player chooses one from the first and one from the second, gains proficiency in saving throws on related Ability Scores, and at different levels gets features from both (like having two subclasses), making different combinations based on his initial choice.

(Also, consider that a class that has to choose two subclasses instead of one is even more in theme of the contest...)

Anyway, this is a major twist of your idea, it is a thought on how I would have faced the problem from the beginning, take it just as a useless advice and don't feel forced to twist anything ^^

[sengmeng]

Hey all, I'm looking at incorporating what you've suggested. So far, I've made it so at the 10th level Ability Score Increase, and thereafter, you can increase your maximum by 1 and another score or the same score by 1, or even another scores maximum. So essentially, you increase at half-pace past 20. I am aware that it potentially gets two "strong" saves by choosing the dex or wis archetypes, however this seems like the theme for that sort of thing, and I attempted to balance it by making those options less strong in other ways. I agree that it needs to be slightly less front loaded, just not sure what to move around. Taking a second glance at it, I think I just wanted to present options not seen in other classes, like a strength based ranged guy or an intelligence based martial. It's kind of like a gladiator who has to make his abilities work for fighting, like it or not. Still open to other suggestions. Thanks!

Edit: moved the skill related archetype abilities to second level. Still very dip friendly, but takes a two level investment to get the good stuff. Then expertise is at third, so maybe you'll want to keep going... Then there's an ASI, then extra attack, another ASI... lol.

[Damon_Tor]

I gave it a quick read and it looks good to me. Could there be some shenanigans healing a Band member in the rear?

This should be pretty limited: the "zero to standing" healing effect doesn't work on units unless you heal the dying unit directly. (I'll have to fiddle with the way I worded these mechanics, as it turns out 5e doesn't technically have the "dying" condition.) Also relevant, a number of the band's abilities are improved by having your members close together, so keeping one in the rear might make it somewhat easier for a backline healer to keep the band standing, but at a not-insignifigant cost to their other strengths.


The fact that the members of the Band share their actions should solve a lot of problems, but I would like to see a lot more possibilities of synergic actions between them, beyond the simple shared Extra Attack. Maybe you could replace Extra Attack with something like Extra Action, giving the option to take the Dodge or Dash action in place of making an attack, or create a whole series of maneuvers to do together if a sufficent number of Band's member are close enough or in a suitable position.

Some of that will be appearing as the subclasses get fleshed out: the acrobats will have a some interesting movement options based on being adjacent to each other, as they do Cirque du Soleil type actions where they launch each other into the air and stuff. The coven's abilities focus on communal spellcasting in ways I'm still figuring out. They already share the effects of dodging, dashing and disengaging, but as written right now there's not a way for some of the band to attack while others dodge. I'm not sure that's an ability I want: I'm worried that tracking which units have dodged and which did not would be an outsized burden on the player and/or DM, and wouldn't usually make much sense anyway outside of very particular formations in very particular terrain.

[Damon_Tor]

Quick informal poll: Which name do you prefer for the class I've currently posted as "The Band"

1. The Band (as is)
2. The Squad
3. The Cadre
4. The Troop
5. Something else

[Damon_Tor]

The band is feature complete, with just the Coven subclass needing to be written. Interested in some PEACH.

EDIT: Coven subclass is complete as well.

[MoleMage]

Updated my off-site link in the submission thread with the now-core-feature-complete Phantasm. Subclasses and forum formatting yet to come.

[Damon_Tor]

Updated my off-site link in the submission thread with the now-core-feature-complete Phantasm. Subclasses and forum formatting yet to come.

Looks very cool.

It feels druidy to me mechanically: weaker caster form, beefier melee form. That's not a criticism, just a point of comparison in my head. Flavor is dead-on, very cool. I really enjoy the different apparition types. If there's one thing I don't care for it's the "you can only use each spell once per day" thing.

[Breccia]

Fatemaster added: https://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/ewyWl6Z1dlbk

It's not going to win, but boy does it fit the theme!

[Nicomo Cosca]

Hiya All! I've not homebrewed a class on this forum for so long (probably over a decade) that I've changed my e-mail and had to make a new account. Anyway! I'm giving it another crack, so here we go!

I was a bit late to join, but submitted a rough draft of my idea: The Luckster - the classic unexpected hero concept (I may actually just rename the class to The Unlikely Hero or just The Unlikely). Someone who stumbles their way to success with a frying pan in hand as they embark on an unlikely hero's journey.

I wanted to make the class have the thematic vibe of being infuriatingly lucky, miraculously avoiding dangers while getting the odd lucky hit of their own along the way. I wanted to keep things a bit more standard and avoid making the class all about odd swingy dice mechanics (which was probably the other way to go).

Anyway, more changes to come as it's very much a WIP at the moment. I've also only done one of the subclasses - the Squire - at the time of posting, but hopefully, I'll have more done soon. I'll also try to get a bit more fluff written up to make the theme leep off the screen a little more than the pretty dry crunch.

See what you all think and any advice is welcomed! :)

Love you all! :) x

[Nicomo Cosca]

Hiya all, just wanted to say that I've decided to rename my submission the Unlikely Hero, which just fits everything way better. I've made quite a bit more progress bashing it all into some kind of shape, so hopefully you can all start to get a feel for it :)

All the best! :)

[sengmeng]

I decided to withdraw my Paragon and replace it with the Shieldmaiden, and also I don't remember why I thought that connected to the theme. Oh well.

[Old Harry MTX]

I decided to withdraw my Paragon and replace it with the Shieldmaiden, and also I don't remember why I thought that connected to the theme. Oh well.

Cool, it reminds me of my Monk subclass Way of the Flying tortoise (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1XhQHlOEc3fBHSpd_xjS2a0JceJU_EdSLPkxZWkjLgPQ/edit?usp=drivesdk), maybe you could take a look at its features (mainly Rebound Strike and Mystical Entanglement) and see if they could be useful to you!

[Damon_Tor]

I decided to withdraw my Paragon and replace it with the Shieldmaiden, and also I don't remember why I thought that connected to the theme. Oh well.

I liked the Paragon much better TBH. It maybe didn't hit every note exactly like I would like to see it, but it was definitely more outside the box which is, IMO, the whole point of this theme. The shieldmaiden looks good as a tanky, defendery class, but if I had a general criticism for it, it would have to be that it seems like it would would work better as a defense-oriented fighter subclass.


Armor Master- I feel like I understand the flavor you're going for here, but a little blurb about what you see in your mind's eye would help this ability feel better to me. I would simplify to light armor +1, medium armor +2, heavy armor +3 without a proficiency restriction. Then later you can increase the bonus by +1 around level 9 and again by +1 around level 13. Balance stays mostly the same this way, and you don't need to consult a table to recalculate your damage bonus whenever you change your armor.
Shield Bash- Great. No notes. Love it.
I find it a bit odd they get the archery fighting style.
Extra reaction- I love this: this should be a general class feature instead of an option. Heck, move this to a lower level and power it up to more extra reactions later in the class, then make it unlimited at 20th level as a capstone (Though it should probably be limited to once per turn rather than once per action) Then lean hard into it and make the whole class revolve around reactions in a more comprehensive way: this would go a long way towards giving the class its own identity and would bring it more in line with the "expectation subversion" theme IMO.
Intervention- Wordy. Suggested paredown: "When an ally you can see is attacked, you can move up to your speed into that ally's space as a reaction. You become the target of that attack, and you push the ally 5 feet in any direction."
Aggression- Seems like an odd ability for someone that wants to stay near allies. Not bad and it would see use, but thematically wrong-feeling. It also seems underwhelming for such a high level ability. Suggestion: instead move as a reaction to an ally moving, letting you move with them so they don't spend any time outside of your protective radius. It's a good example of more design space you could explore by making reaction-based gameplay the signature of the class.
Retribution- In general I like it, but it pushes the limit on how much math I like at the table. When you make the attack you first have to figure out how many HP you're missing and then divide by 5 and ignore remainders. Then once you actually roll you have to look at a crap-ton of the worst type of dice and add up all the numbers. Instead, since every 5 missing HP adds an average of 2.5 damage to the next attack, why not just say something like "Whenever you take damage, you next attack deals extra damage equal to half the damage you took." Less math, less dice, cleaner ability overall.


I'll try to look at the subclasses a little later.

[Nicomo Cosca]

Right! The Unlikely Hero is about as finished as I think I can get it given the time available. Was a lot of work, but good fun doing one of these again after so long away. Anyway, See what you all think :D

[MoleMage]

Sorry I didn't have time to get around to feedback this contest (again, because I'm bad at time management). I did manage to squeak in the subclasses for the Phantasm, so at least the class itself is complete. I moved Dreamscape to normal form and made sure apparition got a lucidity spender at level 1 in each subclass and a solo feature at level 6 in each subclass to balance it back out a bit. I also bumped apparition hit dice to 1d8 and rewrote Irrealis, because the original version was invalidating the playstyle of the first 19 levels of the class, which I didn't like.

All in all, the phantasm should have a decent and usually increasing number of utility and battlefield control options in normal form, while their apparition form gains a little bit of durability, improved attacks in some fashion, and overall better aggressive options.

Some of features I definitely wrote by the seat of my pants and are probably difficult to comprehend, let alone use in play or balance. I don't think I'll be able to fix it until I can look at it with fresh eyes.

[Nicomo Cosca]

Sorry I didn't have time to get around to feedback this contest (again, because I'm bad at time management). I did manage to squeak in the subclasses for the Phantasm, so at least the class itself is complete. I moved Dreamscape to normal form and made sure apparition got a lucidity spender at level 1 in each subclass and a solo feature at level 6 in each subclass to balance it back out a bit. I also bumped apparition hit dice to 1d8 and rewrote Irrealis, because the original version was invalidating the playstyle of the first 19 levels of the class, which I didn't like.

All in all, the phantasm should have a decent and usually increasing number of utility and battlefield control options in normal form, while their apparition form gains a little bit of durability, improved attacks in some fashion, and overall better aggressive options.

Some of features I definitely wrote by the seat of my pants and are probably difficult to comprehend, let alone use in play or balance. I don't think I'll be able to fix it until I can look at it with fresh eyes.

This does not look rushed to me, it's very impressive indeed! I love the theme and the different apparitions and the dreamscape options, it's all very thematic (just so happens to be a theme I love as well). This is a very strong entry, probably my favourite in the competition that I've read so far. Excellent work! :)

[Damon_Tor]

On Old Harry's Centaur Racial Class:

It's a great idea I feel like 5e is missing. And the concept here is done well. The fact that this was well-explored in prior editions does probably removes some points on the "subverts expectations" theme maybe?

Missed opportunity: this seems like it would have been a way to allow for large-sized PCs. Don't let them be large at first level, but at some level in the future they "grow up" and become large. Include some added leniency for squeezing rules and I don't think I would have any issue with the mechanics of playing a big boi.

[Damon_Tor]

Right! The Unlikely Hero is about as finished as I think I can get it given the time available. Was a lot of work, but good fun doing one of these again after so long away. Anyway, See what you all think :D

It's a good idea for an archetype that's missing. There's a lot here I like. Master of the Macguffin is brilliant.

I feel like it was a strange choice to give the base class spellcasting via fortune when they have two partial-caster subclasses. I guess it saves you from having to write up a whole new ability that replicates shield or feather fall or whatever, but there's a flavor disconnect here that feels unintentional, or at very least I'm not sure what you're going for. For example, a number of their abilities won't function in an anti-magic field, even if they aren't a member of a caster subclass. That doesn't feel great.

Do you intend for the capstone to be only ever usable one single time? Because if it costs 20 fortune and using it reduces your maximum fortune to 19, then you can't ever use it again. Unless I misunderstand the intention here.

The Shepherd is a perfect fit for this class thematically. Very well done.

[MoleMage]

Alright, today is the day where the voting period begins!

https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?646094-D-amp-D-5e-Base-Class-Contest-XIX-Voting-Thread-(Open-to-All)

[Old Harry MTX]

Sorry guys, I really sucked managing my free time this time, and I haven't reviewed your entries as I would have eanted... There is a lot of interesting stuff!


On Old Harry's Centaur Racial Class:

It's a great idea I feel like 5e is missing. And the concept here is done well. The fact that this was well-explored in prior editions does probably removes some points on the "subverts expectations" theme maybe.

Good point! Probably the real "weird" part is the fact that the racial levels are not all placed in the first levels, as in 3.5.

Hypothetically, you could create a racial class of a dragon, demon, or abyssal, and keep racial levels for the higher levels, to create very powerful features.

I would also love to create racial classes to expand the original races, such as High Elves, Elden Dwarves or True Dragonborns...

[Nicomo Cosca]

It's a good idea for an archetype that's missing. There's a lot here I like. Master of the Macguffin is brilliant.

Thank you! Yeah, I think media is replete with heroes of this archetype, which you can create via creative roleplay using any class of course, but I thought it would be nice to have something that facilitated this flavour mechanically.


I feel like it was a strange choice to give the base class spellcasting via fortune when they have two partial-caster subclasses. I guess it saves you from having to write up a whole new ability that replicates shield or feather fall or whatever, but there's a flavor disconnect here that feels unintentional, or at very least I'm not sure what you're going for. For example, a number of their abilities won't function in an anti-magic field, even if they aren't a member of a caster subclass. That doesn't feel great.

I completely agree. It was something I stuck a pin in and never returned to. It was lazyness/lack of time on my part and I think I would simply re-write these abilities as non-spells with similar effects (probably with a slight twist) if I had more time. I agree its problematic as is and something that would be good to change.


Do you intend for the capstone to be only ever usable one single time? Because if it costs 20 fortune and using it reduces your maximum fortune to 19, then you can't ever use it again. Unless I misunderstand the intention here.

Yeah, I like the idea of the unlikely heroes journey ending with a singular wish fulfilment - which feels quite thematic to me. That said I think having something that persists after the single Wish may be nice. Maybe allowing the Unlikely Hero to only use Wish thereafter to replicate 8th level (or below) spells.


The Shepherd is a perfect fit for this class thematically. Very well done.

How do you train your dragon (and many other such depictions) a go go! Its probably my favourite as well. I would like to do others as well, like a kooky inventor for example.

Thank you so much for taking the time to look over it! Its really appreciated and any suggestions are more than welcome. :)

[Nicomo Cosca]

Ok, so I thought I would spend some time working through some of the classes (probably wont get to them all - sorry). I'll start with the Band by Damon Tor.

As a trope in media I really like the concept behind this, but without a single PCs narrative to follow things become a little more complex, especially when interacting with other characters.

Oddly enough I am actually currently playing a character who runs into some of the issues that may arise and its one of the most fun and deeply heavy RP experiences I've had in a TTRPG, but it’s a delicate balance to strike.

I'm currently play an Echo Knight fighter, who is basically an ancient warforged warrior queen. Her Echo is the spirit of a young artisan who was manipulated into tampering with the warforged while it was dormant and whose soul was consequently absorbed into it. As a result I have two personalities to play, even though one is just a mechanic (the echo) they are both full characters and from a point of initial conflict, have developed into a pretty deep mother-daughter relationship over the course of a multi year campaign. Now the Warforged is slowly dying in order to essentially let Ezra (the spirit) gain physical form. Things have moved into a stage where the characters are essentially a stoic terminal mother and her daughter who has to face a future without her and that prospect of her semi “chosen one” existence. All this has been awesome (and bonkers) to play - but its had to be something that I've been very careful with over the course of the whole campaign. Having two characters and essentially the ability to roleplay with myself and take up a lot of spotlight is something to be very aware of.

This is definitely something best undertaken with experience, making this a difficult class to bring to the table for all sorts of reasons that have little to do with its mechanics. However, if done right, this could be very rewarding. With all the above said, I think you probably already knew all that going in and wanted to make something quite different/unexpected as a result of the contest theme – so onto the class itself...

Soulbound really sets things off nicely giving a neat and sensible set of instructions for how the class should operate. By the very nature of the class there may well be some edge cases that will strain things, like what happens if one unit is abducted or left behind (by choice or force). Also can a player choose to send units off, roaming around accomplishing different errands. Regardless, questions aside (and I’m sure gameplay will reveal more), it all seems very well done. Similarly the sections on Shared Destiny and Replacing Fallen Comrades is very logical and makes sense, whilst also bringing clear rules that make everything much more streamlined to run.

The Cadres are all really nice and thematic. I particularly like the Acrobat Troupe, the movement options are fantastic, the opportunity to make a whole gang of fanciful cat burglars is very fun indeed. The Sagittarii are also pretty fun, I like the idea of really laying down some arrow fire!

Much of the rest of the class reminds me of my time playing an Echo Knight. Being able to attack from either space for example.

Personally I think there is an inevitability to one or more members of the band getting distinct names, personalities and interparty plotlines (a member of the band is romanced by another PC for example). This is all stuff that’s hard to avoid assuming you want to actual do any real roleplaying and get involved in conversations with the other people at the table. In reality you will probably end up with one or two main personalities in the band and everyone else will be popping in and out of existence when the moment requires it. I would consider reducing the number of band members as a result, even 4 seems like the kind of thing that could quickly get out of hand. I would probably say have 3 max and just have it that you get the 3rd once you form a Cadre. From there you can maybe even embrace (rather than shy from) the idea that each will probably become something and build a mechanical quirk that gives each member one their "little john" or "Friar Tuck" vibe.

In general though I think this is probably the best execution of this I am legion / group concept I’ve seen done in d&d, so well done! Awesome work :)

[MoleMage]

Alright our voting time is now up! Let's take a look see...

In 3rd place, it looks like we have a tie between MoleMage with the Phantasm and Nicomo Cosca with the Unlikely Hero! Both earned 6 points with the same voting spread, and as of my vote an hour ago, both parties have voted, so the tie stands!

In 2nd place, we have Breccia's Fatemaster! It may be multiclass only, but that's on brand for this contest, and nobody manipulates luck like this class does.

And our grand winner for contest 19 is Damon_Tor with The Band! For when you really need to be 2-6 guys instead of one.

Good work everyone! This is a challenging theme and we had a lot of competitive entries.

Theme votes were all over the place this time. I may need to start using the restricted vote pool like I do in the subclass contest. But for today, I'm going to combine Don't Give Up the Day Job as suggested by Nicomo Cosca with Less About Combat suggested by Damon_Tor (the other new suggestions are going in the box, don't you worry about that). Look for Contest 20: I'm Not Supposed to Be Here soon!

And here's the chat thread! https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?647051-D-amp-D-Base-Class-Context-XX-I-m-Not-Supposed-to-Be-Here-(Open-to-All)&p=25497823#post25497823


Okay, the voting has been called, and the new contest threads are open for business! Get in there and start brewing!

Chat Thread (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?647051-D-amp-D-Base-Class-Context-XX-I-m-Not-Supposed-to-Be-Here-(Open-to-All))

Submission Thread (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?647052-D-amp-D-5e-Base-Class-Contest-XX-I-m-Not-Supposed-to-Be-Here-(Submission-Thread))

[Old Harry MTX]

Good job everyone! I'm going to finish a pair of more "racial classes" and then I will drop them on a dedicated topic!