A second fantasy concept from me

[Executor]

It's occured to me that the vast majority of fantasy literature is set in a medieval/Graeco-Roman world. This is not a bad thing, but it can be tiring. So I have come up with a second concept for a fantasy novel. This is set in a Napoleonic, Colonial era for a world. It is primarily concerned with a enormous, continent-spanning war in this world, that is intentionally based on the Napoleonic and Seven Years Wars. It is pretty much a fantasy equivalency of the Aubrey-Maturin and Sharpe books. There's dragons, giants and magic alongside muskets, cannons and tall ships. So, without further ado, here is the idea:


In the country of Gallia, there has been a revolution. The royal House of Burnon has been overthrown and replaced with a Gallian general and highly-esteemed military genius by the name of Joseph Michel Bassieres. Bassieres set out upon a war with the rest of the continent of Eara. He soons conquers most of the continent, leaving only frigid Rkusia in the north and isolated Brytain across the Priteni Channel from Gallia. Meanwhile, In the Brytish island stronghold of Port Badonic, in the middle of the channel between the Atlas Ocean and the Inner Sea, three officers have a fateful meeting at a opera. Captain James Carnac of the 44-gun frigate HRMS Faithful, Major Michael Blackwell of the 12th Augrumshire Rifles and Lieutenant Horatio Wyatt of His Majesty's Own Dragon-and-Griffin Corps. The lives of these three officers become inextractably entwined as they forge a strong friendship and face the battles and hardships of the Gallian Wars together.

So that's the idea. Yes, some of the real world analogies are rather obvious. But that's the point. This is the Napoleonic Wars of this fantasy world. I think i've got some rather original concepts though. For example, an explanation of The Dragon-and-Griffin Corps, an aerial element to Napoleonic-style battles. Dragons in my world are enormous, on average they're the size of a frigate, but the biggest ones can equal a first-rate Ship of the Line in size. With scales that can turn musketshots, fiery breath, and the ability of flight, their military applications are numerous. Being as big as naval ships, each dragon can carry anywhere from several dozen to several hundred men. Wooden structures called "Tops" are mounted onto dragons before battle, and often carry anywhere from 8-12 6lb cannons to increase the dragons firepower. They will also mount swivel guns and fore and aftcastles for sharpshooters. The Griffins are animals that look like an eagle/lion hybrid, each about the size of a horse. They are deployed from dragons in battle, each with a rider armed with a carbine and a sabre, essentially: Airborne Dragoons.

Anyways, does it sound interesting? Would you read it?

[Manticorkscrew]

It sounds a bit too much like Temeraire, actually, and the Fantasy Counterpart cultures are a bit too obvious, to the point of being carbon copies of the real world territories*. My advice would be to keep the basic technology level intact (or make it a magepunk world), and create the politics, cultures and geography out of whole cloth.

*Although real world Napoleon had a great deal more difficulty in conquering Europe than your version seems to.

[Sneak]

Hmm. Sounds interesting, I guess. Seems like you've thought about the details.

I assume this book would be a more military-focused fantasy book, correct?

Also, is there any kind of magic in the world, or are griffins and dragons the only fantasy-related staples present in this world?

And I know you said that the real-world references are intended, but I think it would be for the best if they were toned down at least a bit.

[Executor]

Well, the Napoleonic Wars are my area of expertise when it comes to history. I was going to take that, and combine it with the Seven Years War in a fantasy setting to get my story. I began writing it after reading the Sharpe and Aubrey-Maturin series and wondering what a fantasy Napoleonic War would be like.

Temeraire? What's Temeraire? Never heard of it, besides the HMS Temeraire, a second-rate which served at Trafalgar, right behind the Victory in the line of battle.

Okay, took a wikipedia check. Interesting stuff. But I think the primary difference is that Temeraire is real-life history with dragons tacked on, whereas mine is a constructed world with dragons, magic and all that jazz built into it from the beginning.

There is magic. Military intelligence and covert ops is replaced with mages and such. Battles are set to be interesting. Ships of the line can be blasted away with fireballs, or even pulled up from the briny deep by magic power. Limbs can be reattached, fully functional. But magical affinity is exceedingly rare, so all mages are monitored by their respective governments and required by law to join the military.

[Manticorkscrew]

Okay, took a wikipedia check. Interesting stuff. But I think the primary difference is that Temeraire is real-life history with dragons tacked on, whereas mine is a constructed world with dragons, magic and all that jazz built into it from the beginning.

Well, at the moment, your concept seems like real life history with some of the names changed.

Oh, and Dragons/Griffons.

Sorry for being negative.

Otherwise, I think that the Napoleonic era is a largely untapped area of fantasy, and that your idea has potential.

[Executor]

Like I said, the real world parallels are intentional. So your accusations are no skin off my nose.

[Manticorkscrew]

I wasn't trying to accuse you of anything- I mean, you can hardly plagiarise real life, can you? Just because I would do something differently doesn't mean you should.

Well, I'm glad you weren't offended by it.

And you've definitely made me curious about where you're going with this, and that's got to be a good thing, right?

[Dervag]

Like I said, the real world parallels are intentional. So your accusations are no skin off my nose.Yes, but if you reduce the parallels just a little, you won't have readers bumping their heads against it every time they turn around. For instance, if you have a vast nation ruled by an autocratic monarch that is relatively backwards and prone to freezing winters, and you call it "Rkusia", the reader will think "Rkusia? Couldn't Executor be bothered to change more than one letter in the name?"

So pick a slightly more inventive name. Either make up something sort of Slavic-sounding, or pick some historical name of a province or principality from Russian history, such as Tver or Ryazan. Something that the average reader won't recognize immediately.

As for it "sounding like Temeraire," the Temeraire series is a Napoleonic-era historical fantasy with dragons in it, and of course with frigates and such. So if you try to publish this story set in a near-historical fantasy with dragons and frigates in it, you may end up getting sued for plagiarism by Naomi Novik because your universe so closely resembles hers (except that you changed the names of the countries). The fact that you came up with the idea independently is irrelevant unless you can prove that you didn't steal anything from Ms. Novik.

[Executor]

I never said it was an autocratic monarchy that was relatively backwards. Rkusia (a name which i'm trying to change) is, in fact, a decentralized democractic confederation on the leading edge of modern technology. I only ever said it was a cold country due to it being near the artic circle. The closest historical parralels in my story is Gallia, a former monarchy now a military dictatorship/republic and Brytain, a primarily naval power ruled by monarchy.

Honestly, my series is more inspired by Patrick O'Brian, Bernard Cornwell and C.S. Forrester than Naomi Novik. I've never even read Temeraire! Prior to this thread, the only Temeraire I knew was the ship that served at Trafalgar.

Oh, here's an alternative name for Rkusia: Urheimat, how does that sound? It's the German word for the homeland of speakers of a certain language. Now if only I can change Brytaen but still keep it sounding reasonably English.

[Manticorkscrew]

Hmm...

The name Albion is probably a bit too commonly used as a fantasy counterpart of Britain. But you could reference it. So... Alba?

Or you could play around with the history of Britain. So, instead of England it might be Juteland or Saxonland (urgh. Maybe not).

[Dervag]

I never said it was an autocratic monarchy that was relatively backwards. Rkusia (a name which i'm trying to change) is, in fact, a decentralized democractic confederation on the leading edge of modern technology. I only ever said it was a cold country due to it being near the artic circle. The closest historical parralels in my story is Gallia, a former monarchy now a military dictatorship/republic and Brytain, a primarily naval power ruled by monarchy.OK; didn't know that.


Honestly, my series is more inspired by Patrick O'Brian, Bernard Cornwell and C.S. Forrester than Naomi Novik. I've never even read Temeraire! Prior to this thread, the only Temeraire I knew was the ship that served at Trafalgar.I believe you; I'm not accusing you of anything here. For that matter, I haven't read those books either. I only know they exist because one of my college roommates read them. What I'm saying is that the copyright lawyers may not believe you, and that you do not want to get sued over something like this even if you have an ironclad defense in the event that you do get sued.

The entire publishing industry is shaped in large part by the desire to avoid giving anyone a viable motive to sue anyone else.


Oh, here's an alternative name for Rkusia: Urheimat, how does that sound? It's the German word for the homeland of speakers of a certain language. Now if only I can change Brytaen but still keep it sounding reasonably English.Anglia? Some completely made-up name?

The details aren't important here; my point is general. What I'm getting at is that it's fine to reprise a real-world scenario in a fantasy world (see Harry Turtledove's World at War series), but that it helps a lot if you've clearly made the effort to make your world different from the real one in significant ways other than just tacking on dragons.

Of course, it's also acceptable to make a historical fantasy that is set on Earth, only with dragons, but Ms. Novik has already gone and staked out that portion of ideaspace. And now that she's done that, you're going to have to work a little harder to make your idea clearly distinct from hers. You're already planning to include more fantasy elements. That will help.

On a side note, you probably should read her books, just so you can avoid blundering into one of her ideas by accident.

By the way, how would you have tall ships and firebreathing dragons in the same setting? I mean, the dragons would be very lethal to the ships under any normal conditions; you need very good firefighting technology to make that workable.

[bosssmiley]

Hmm...

The name Albion is probably a bit too commonly used as a fantasy counterpart of Britain. But you could reference it. So... Alba?

Alba's an old name for Scotland, so probably not.


Or you could play around with the history of Britain. So, instead of England it might be Juteland or Saxonland (urgh. Maybe not).

Try Cassiteridea (from an old Greek name for Cornwall or the Scilly Isles), or name the Britain-a-like after one of the old tribal kingdoms: Mercia, Gwent, Powys (if you're going for the celtic feel), Dumnonia, Brigantia, etc.

Call it something like Foglund or Drearier if you want to play up the damp mistyness of the British Isles.

Or you could go with the myth history that says Britain was conquered by Brutus of Troy. Brutia or Bruschania perhaps? Still sounds a bit like Britain, but puts it firmly in the realm of the mythic.

Oh, and "Seventh Sea", "Lace and Steel", TSR's old OD&D "Principalities of Glantri", "Republic of Darokin" and AD&D 2nd Ed. Historical Reference series are all good source for D&D with added colonialism and gunpowder.

Cheers.

[Executor]

By the way, how would you have tall ships and firebreathing dragons in the same setting? I mean, the dragons would be very lethal to the ships under any normal conditions; you need very good firefighting technology to make that workable.


Well, for one, Dragons hate flying over water in my universe. Water makes them extremely skittish, nervous and prone to panic, so their use in an anti-ship role isn't particularly effective due to it. In the wild, dragons won't fly over water unless it's absolutely neccesary, in the military they have to put blinders on the dragon to get them across seas.

And there are more fantasy elements than just dragons and griffins in my world. Sorcerors, mages, magic swords, The Kraken, demigods, trolls, giants, the list goes on and on.

And I like the sound of Bruschania as the name for my Britain-a-like. Here's the total list of country names I have so far, and their real world equivalents

Kingdom of Bruschania = Great Britain
Gallian Republic = French Republic
Urheimat Confederation = Russian Empire
Mächtigkrieger = Prussia
Österreich = Austria
Mitomagia = Spain

And yes, I used words in their respective languages to get the names for Prussia, Austria and Spain.

[Sir_Norbert]

Oesterreich (can't be bothered to type the umlaut) is just the German name for Austria... that's a really bad idea. It's saying that your country is Austria, because you're not even changing anything. Couldn't you find a name that had been used for the region historically, the name of a local tribe, or something like that?

Don't mean to sound like I'm knocking you, because I like your idea, I just think you could be more creative with the names. And I certainly agree with your basic premise -- that the mediaeval or fake mediaeval setting is overused -- although we've taken off from that premise in different directions. The setting I'm creating for my work is more mid-20th century.

[Executor]

How about Brüderheimat then, for a name for the Austria-a-like? I just really like the sound of Osterreich. But yeah, I guess it would make me a hack if I used it.

[steelwire]

Like I said, the real world parallels are intentional. So your accusations are no skin off my nose. Great Wall (http://www.the-great-wall.com.cn) WOW Gold (http://www.wowgold-wow.cn) Steel Pipe (http://www.cn-SteelPipe.net)

[Hawriel]

I second Dervags worning. He just wanted to let you know you need to protect yourself. Even be open to changing some thing in your consept if thats what it comes to. When it comes to writers and the publishing induistry it can be very harsh when it comes to similar ideas. I remember how a young just out of collage writer got nailed hard last year for plagerism because of one frase in her book. Well one that was reported on. I myself had not even heard of Ms Novik's books untill I saw them on display at borders a month ago.

I do like your setting Idea, Ive been wanting to look for books along these lines. That is somthing other than a ye O'l England style setting. Its a good setting choice. I do have for what ever its worth on comment about the names of your countries. Sorry if I'm to dumb American in saying this. You have two pairse of countries starting with the same letter. Also the Prussia analog is way long. You might want to put give your countries a simple secondary common name as well. Again sorry Im just thinking like a reader that has or will mix complicated names up. I do like and respect your knowledge of Europe.

I am just asking questions and trying to give feed back please do not take any of this as a bash on your ideas. After all you can totaly ignore them as is your right to do so.

Because you mentioned the dragons I'll try and give a constructive feed back on the idea. The first things that came to mind are. How are the dragons carrying what might as well be a gunboat on their backs and still fly? Why are the dragons afraid of water as if they where a house cat? Why are the dragons being used in such a capacity? Are the dragons intilligent or beasts?

I can only think of two ways a dragon can be able to fly. Like a bird or bat, or like a zeppelin, well three if you count magic. If the dragons fly like a bird then they really cant carry any thing on their backs, exept small harnesses between the shoulders and neck. The wings would need to bend back or up as it where for alot of flight meneuvers, most often on take off and landings. Even if the dragon flyes as a condor does. Its not just the movement of the wings but the whole muscular system of the back would be invalved in their use. If the dragon flew as a zeppelin the wings would not be the primary sorce of lift. They would be used for propultion and stearing along with the tail. I could see how a larger gun platform would work, with one change. The platform should be a belly slung gondola. Being on the back of the dragon would seariosly restict the fleelds of fire for ground support. The guns would also be bellow the wings so they would not inhinder each other. This would also be a better way to transport troops. All the dragon has to do is belly down on the grownd, ramps drop open soldiers rush out. The only other problem I see is how much wait can eather type of dragon carry? Also how do you protect the straps. that is the biggest week point to the idea. I emagin in this type of fight instead of aiming at sails gun crews and dragons would be going for the straps holding the platform/gondola and or the wings of the dragon. Of corse I could see both types of dragons being available. I can invision a bird/bat like dragon holding a gondola in its claws and delivering it to a battlefield dropping it and going back for another.

Back to water. whats with the fear of water and how big does the body of water have to be in order to freak them out? Can they fly over or land neer a small pond or lake? How about a stream or river? Is lake Erie to big or some thing like lake Superior? What about the Mississipi river? Does this apply to all dragons? A house cat, bobcat, panther and other types of cats would be very nervios around water. A tiger or jaguar on the other hand have no problem jumping and swimming in it. Sence dragons fly its kind of hard to conseave of why. After all alot of non equatic birds migrate over large distantses over water or actively hunt in it. Why would a dragon with the wingspan of a B-52 bomber care about flying over an ocean? I just have trouble believing a reptile having a fobia of water. Sorry im not meaning to bash im just thinking like an avid reader who would hit that part of book and go 'what the heck??' there has to be a real good reason.

Smarts. Are the dragons intelligent? If so why are they being used as beasts of burden? what is their motive for cooperating with the governments. Are the dragons politicly active? Do they controle land? With subjects? How many dragons are there? If your dragons are so big than realisticly there cannot be that many. Unless maybe they pray on each other. Or their are other animals that are big enough for them to live off of. I just see it like this. If and when a dragon needs to eat, how does the military provide for its food? It already has to fead multaple armies of hundreds of thousands of men and horses. Now they have to feed a dragon, and more than one.

ok this is way long Im sorry about this. I do like your idea I hope i didnt come off as trying to crush it.