Mandatory level up

[Gransoley]

A quote from the old wotc forum:

You don't automatically level up when you gain enough xp. You can 'hold' your xp, and just rack up a number as high as you want. It was said in an interview by one of the main guys, Skip Williams I believe. Don't hold me to that name though.

Any confirmation of the interview?

[Saintheart]

A quote from the old wotc forum:

You don't automatically level up when you gain enough xp. You can 'hold' your xp, and just rack up a number as high as you want. It was said in an interview by one of the main guys, Skip Williams I believe. Don't hold me to that name though.

Any confirmation of the interview?

If so it would be against the RAW of p. 58 of the PHB.

[Gransoley]

If so it would be against the RAW of p. 58 of the PHB.

Yeah, it was a given. More curiosity than anything

[Sire Pepe]

I can't argue against the PHB, as I think it's pretty clear on the matter.

Nevertheless, I always thought it was weird that characters suddently became stronger the moment the last orc's head hit the ground. In my opinion, it makes more sense to allow them to gain levels after they've had a chance to rest, train and meditate on their experience.

This is how people acquire new skills in real life, so the way I always played is that PCs need at least a little bit of downtime (at least a long rest...That's what they need to replenish spells after all) to benefit from their new level.

I do agree with the RAW about not being able to save as much xp as you want, though. One level's worth of xp seems like a reasonnable amount.

I understand that some players might find that frustrating, so the choice is yours, of course!

[Gransoley]

I'll make clear that i DO understand the RAW properly and I'm not looking for a workaround, I'm just looking for that specific reference.

[Seward]

In 3.x we tended to play that experience wasn't granted until a rest period, so you didn't get that weird effect of leveling up mid-battle, as you can in a MMORPG. In organized play, no xp was granted till the end of the current adventure, so again, no problems really arose. (ok, there was a weird thing in organized play where playtest adventure rewards including xp weren't granted till the adventure was approved and released, which sometimes caused a character to receive the rewards a level or two later than they were when the adventure was run, but that was mostly a problem for people who Gm'd a lot then played that character in many adventures at a convention right after the playtest).

In 1st ed, you got no levels till you found a training hall, coughed up the gold for training costs and spent 1-4 weeks training (and costs were per-week, and how long you spent training depended on whether the GM thought you "acted" like your class should in earning that xp....it could be expensive to play against type).

That was too far in the other direction, and caused all sorts of issues if you played the kind of campaign that expected the party to stay together on all adventures. This was especially bad because classes had different experience charts and a paladin might grumble about sitting on his butt for weeks while the rogue kept going back for training after each minor adventure.

[Gransoley]

Please let's not end in a X Y problem.
I'm not here to debate on the design nor consequences of the base levelling system.
As i explicitly asked i just want to know if there's still trace of such an interview online, that's about it.

[Biggus]

You don't automatically have to level up on gaining enough experience:


upon gaining enough XP to attain a new level, he or she can immediately expend XP on creating an item rather than keeping the XP to advance a level

It does say you have to use it immediately though, implying that would be the case with other methods of saving XP: you'd have to use them or somehow put them in storage if you didn't want to level up.

[bekeleven]

It does say you have to use it immediately though, implying that would be the case with other methods of saving XP: you'd have to use them or somehow put them in storage if you didn't want to level up.
Yep. This effectively means that by RAW you can bank 1 encounter's worth of XP. Once you enter a second encounter without spending XP from the first you can't claim to be "immediately expending" the XP you got.

[Doctor Despair]

In fact, as a RAW optional variant, DMs can require players to train for several days or weeks (and, in some cases, even spend gold on a trainer!) to level up, so it obviously needn't happen the second XP is accrued.

[pabelfly]

I can't argue against the PHB, as I think it's pretty clear on the matter.

Nevertheless, I always thought it was weird that characters suddently became stronger the moment the last orc's head hit the ground. In my opinion, it makes more sense to allow them to gain levels after they've had a chance to rest, train and meditate on their experience.

This is how people acquire new skills in real life, so the way I always played is that PCs need at least a little bit of downtime (at least a long rest...That's what they need to replenish spells after all) to benefit from their new level.

I do agree with the RAW about not being able to save as much xp as you want, though. One level's worth of xp seems like a reasonnable amount.

I understand that some players might find that frustrating, so the choice is yours, of course!

Have you had a look at an alternative level system called STEPS by Sean Reynolds? It breaks levelling down into four steps, so instead of getting all of your boosts for an entire level at once, you might get HP and BAB after a session, save boosts after a session, your skillpoints after a session, and class features and spellcasting after a session (and you pick the order you get it in).

[Telonius]

Haven't been able to find anything about a Skip Williams interview on the subject. Do you happen to have the link to the full WOTC forum quote? It almost sounds more like it would have come from Monte Cook or possibly Mike Mearls. (I found a bunch of stuff citing an interview from Mearls where he suggests much faster leveling up than usual).

[hamishspence]

Don't certain magic items, in order to be made at the appropriate level, require masses of banked XP?

[Jack_Simth]

Please let's not end in a X Y problem.
I'm not here to debate on the design nor consequences of the base levelling system.
As i explicitly asked i just want to know if there's still trace of such an interview online, that's about it.

I'm sorry.

[Gransoley]

I'm sorry.

It's ok, i just really hate it and for some reason on forums people tend to make assumptions and it propagates so much.
But i also understand how people asking for help on forums don't have as specific questions as me.

[Jay R]

Please let's not end in a X Y problem.
I'm not here to debate on the design nor consequences of the base levelling system.
As i explicitly asked i just want to know if there's still trace of such an interview online, that's about it.

A. As near as I can tell, there is no record of that interview available any more. That's the answer to your specific question.

B. You started the thread, but it doesn't belong to you. Besides answering your specific question, we can talk about the interesting things it brought up. As long as people tell you what they know about your question, it's all right for us to also explore the entire topic.

In an in-person conversation, we can't do that, because only one person at a time can talk. If somebody expands the topic, that prevents somebody else from answering your question. But this is asynchronous communication, and one person's post doesn't interfere with somebody else posting your answer.