Animal Companions with Skillful Weapons

[Ursus Spelaeus]

The skillful weapon enhancement from Complete Arcane lets you use a weapon at no penalty if you are non-proficient with it. What kinds of shenanigans could you pull off by giving one of these to an animal? I was already thinking about arming apes with nets and flasks of alchemist's fire, but what about an ape with some kind of exotic weapon, like a spiked chain? INT 2 means Combat Expertise and trip builds are out. How about it?

[Soranar]

Just make the animal intelligent

a blackguard gets a fiendish companion , if you take improved fiendish companion one is an ape

a paladin/druid can take devoted tracker to make his mount/animal companion combine, which gives him INT

an arcane hierophant can combine a familiar with his animal companion

plenty of options

personally I like the super fiendish ape since it's fairly strong and large so it has tons of reach, make sure you give it mage slayer feats

[Thurbane]

Flindbar gives an auto disarm attempt on a critical, from memory. Just checked: looks like it's on a threat, so you don't even need to confirm for your free disarm attempt.

Also, you could potentially put Skilful on a Dragonshard Pommel, then swap out weapons as you like.

[the_tick_rules]

i'm thinking weapons that have additional effects, like if you hit with this weapon you get a trip attempt or something.

[Troacctid]

It's more economical to use a mouthpick weapon. +1 instead of +2, so it's a lot cheaper. Animals don't get any benefit from gaining average BAB, since that's the BAB they already have, and because it's wielded in the animal's teeth, you don't have to worry about using a weaker companion to make sure they have arms.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

You could always install a permanent acorn of far travel (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?546179-Un-Hallow-that-Stacks) in the weapon, with heroics tied to one of the (un)hallow spells under the tree to give the wielder of the weapon the (Exotic) Weapon Proficiency feat for it. It'd be a lot cheaper gp-wise, especially once you've piled on the weapon enhancements (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?634999-3-P-What-Weapon-Combos-Would-You-Consider-Truly-Legendary).

[Troacctid]

You could always install a permanent acorn of far travel (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?546179-Un-Hallow-that-Stacks) in the weapon, with heroics tied to one of the (un)hallow spells under the tree to give the wielder of the weapon the (Exotic) Weapon Proficiency feat for it. It'd be a lot cheaper gp-wise, especially once you've piled on the weapon enhancements (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?634999-3-P-What-Weapon-Combos-Would-You-Consider-Truly-Legendary).
Uh, not if you follow the rules you can't. That's not what any of those spells do.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Uh, not if you follow the rules you can't. That's not what any of those spells do.What, acorn of far travel doesn't make you count as standing under the canopy of a tree that has a buff spell tied to a hallow spell under it?

[NinjaGuy]

i'm thinking weapons that have additional effects, like if you hit with this weapon you get a trip attempt or something.

Is there a list of those somewhere?

[Beni-Kujaku]

What, acorn of far travel doesn't make you count as standing under the canopy of a tree that has a buff spell tied to a hallow spell under it?

Hallow has a list of spells that can be cast on it. Yes I've read your "but it only says it includes those spells, so that means that anything else is fair game since it doesn't say explicitly that it forbids everything else!", and I answer that no DM in existence would ever allow that interpretation. If there's a list, that's for a reason. It is also exceedingly clear in other languages (which are mandated by WotC and are then rules) (In french: "Les sorts qu’il est possible d’associer à sanctification maléfique sont les suivants :", or "The spells that one can possibly link to unhallow are the following:"). Furthermore, acorn of far travel makes you count as under the canopy, not as "in the area of a spell that was cast partially overlapping that canopy". A timeless plane has spells become effectively permanent, but it is also explicitly said that once you get out of the plane, any condition due to time works again, and even affects you retroactively, which is a pretty strong argument against the feasibility of the permanent acorn trick. And that's not even counting the fact that an oak on a timeless plane would not grow and not produce acorns.

Every single step of that "plan" of yours relies on extremely specific (and/or flat out wrong) interpretations of part of the rules while ignoring significant others, which puts it firmly in theoretical optimization domain while the op clearly wants something significantly more tame. I'd be glad to discuss all those points with you, if you wish, but in another thread, as not to derail this one.



Is there a list of those somewhere?

Honestly, most exotic weapons have things that they can do that makes them exotic, it's rarely just more damage, or more crit range. To give such a list would require to go through all exotic weapons (and a few non-exotic ones). Still, some of the best ones are the spiked chain, the ritiik from Dragon 331 (mostly, all weapons from Dr331), the Dwarven warpike from Races of Stone, or the elven courtblade if you want to use your animal's Weapon Finesse while still dealing decent damage.

[loky1109]

It's more economical to use a mouthpick weapon. +1 instead of +2, so it's a lot cheaper.
And nonprof -4 still are here.

[remetagross]

And nonprof -4 still are here.

Fair point, but actually the animal companion could just take the relevant Martial Weapon Proficiency feat!

[Troacctid]

And nonprof -4 still are here.
No, it's a mouth pick weapon.

[the_tick_rules]

Is there a list of those somewhere?

if there is i don't know about it, i will look.

[loky1109]

No, it's a mouth pick weapon.
Oh! I see. Well, skillful is worst.

[NinjaGuy]

Found the ol' Haberdash the Masked (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?88633-Haberdash-the-Masked-The-3-5-Kitchen-Sink) build I couldn't call to mind last night, which is not only a great read, but came with a nifty conglomeration of useful exotic weapons.


Annulat: Planar Handbook pg 68. Thrown weapon that imposes a -2 penalty to AC against it's target. If you're going to throw something, why not make it easier to hit? It's also noteworthy that neraphim treat it as a martial weapon, making a neraphim Master Thrower/Bloodstorm Blade a tempting option.

Boomerang: Eberron Campaign setting pg 119: This weapon actually sucks. It deals less damage then most other thrown weapons. When it misses, you can make an attack roll to catch it. However, proficiency with this weapon qualifies you for the uber Boomerang Daze feat (Races of Eberron pg 108) forces anyone who takes damage from your boomerang to Save or be Dazed (one of the most powerful effects in the game) for 1 round, and Boomerang Ricochet (also RoE pg 108) which lets you hit a second adjacent target with your boomerang (potentially Dazing both) after you hit the first.

Braid Blade: Dungeon 120: 1d3, 18-20, x2. On a full attack, allows you to make an extra attack at -5, or -2 if you have 5 ranks of Tumble.

Collapsing Crescent Fan: Sandstorm, p. 96: +4 to attack any flat-footed foe. Great when combined with Iaijutsu Focus.

Composite Greatbow: Complete Warrior: Does 1d10 damage and has a 130 ft range increment. So this a good long ranged weapon for pure damage dealing.

Drow Scorpion Chain: Secrets of Xen'drik pg 137: Exactly the same as a normal Spiked Chain, except that if you happen to be a drow, you can take the Drow Skirmisher feat (which grants several proficiencies and minor bonuses) instead of Exotic Weapon Proficiency to get proficiency with it. Not useful for Haberdash, but worth including on this list for the sake of completeness.

Elven Courtblade: Races of the Wild: 1d10, 18-20 *2. Slightly less damage then the Jovar. But this two handed weapon can be used for both Power Attack and Weapon Finesse.

Flindbar: Monster Manual III: +2 to Disarm, and when you threaten a crit (19-20 or 17-20 with any Keen effect) you get a free Disarm attempt before you roll to confirm the crit.

Foot Spike: Races of the Wild: Yet another place to hide a weapon, just in case your DM decides to have your party taken prisoner.

Glot: Frostburn: Can be used to make ranged trip attacks, and deals better damage then bolas or barbed bolas.

Goad: Frostburn: Reach weapon that deals non-lethal damage, in case you ever want to capture someone without killing them. Also gives you +2 to Handle Animal checks against Huge or bigger animals.

Greathammer: Monster Manual 4 or Races of Stone: 1d12, 19-20/x4 or just 20/x4, depending on which version you use. Also gives you +2 to Sunder a weapon or shield, but sundering your future treasure is generally a bad idea.

Harpoon: Frostburn: A harpooned creature moves at half speed, cannot charge or run, and if you attach a rope to it you can limit their movement away from you. It can be removed with a full round action, which deals damage again. Occasionally helpful for battlefield control. Or you can enchant it with Returning, and have a double damage ranged attack.

Heavy weapons: Basically a special way of constructing a metal weapon. Increases the damage die of the weapon based on a set chart. Requires Exotic Weapon Proficiency to wield correctly. But this is no problem for Haberdash. So unless your DM is crazy enough to let you use Kaorti, then most of your weapons should be Heavy. Magic of Faerun, pg. 179.

Ice Axe: Frostburn: +4 to Climb checks.

Jovar: Planar Handbook: 2d6, 18-20, *2. With high damage and a high threat range, this is your is a respectable pure damage dealing weapon. Buy a Scabbard of Keen Edges.

Kaorti weapons: Fiend Folio web enhancement: *ANY* weapon can be made out of kaorti, which gives it a crit multiplier of x4. You need an EWP for a kaorti version of a weapon (even if it is already exotic), but... hey, no problem for Haberdash! Combine with a Keen Elven Courtblade or something similar for a ridiculous crit. Of course, this is a ridiculously exotic weapon, as you need to convince an Evil Outsider to make it for you (or accept the +4 LA to be a Kaorti yourself). My suggestion is that you invest in Knowledge (Planes), and ask your DM for a side quest to get one.

Kusari-Gama: A one handed reach weapon, which is useful for certain builds. The Spinning Sword (see below) is superior, but comes from a more obscure source. DMG.

Lance: Not exotic, but everyone who is proficient should keep one on their mount. You never know when double damage from a charge might come in handy. And like the Kusari-Gama, it's a one handed reach weapon (when you're mounted and use a shield). PHB.

Lasso: Book of Exalted Deeds, p. 34: Using a lasso is a ranged touch attack that imposes a -2 to attack rolls and -4 on Dex (no Save).

Longstaff: Complete Adventurer: If you fight defensively or use Combat Expertise while using this weapon, you can’t be flanked. Screw you Rogues!

Mancatcher: Complete Warrior: Gives you a free Grapple attempt when you hit your enemy. Also, as long as your enemy can’t reach you, they can’t attack you or do anything other then attempt to move or escape from the grapple.

Net (PHB): Using a net is a ranged touch attack (maximum range of 10 feet) that imposes a -2 to attack rolls and -4 to Dex, 1/2 movement, and you can’t charge or run (no Save).

Orc Shotput: Sword & Fist, p. 71: One of the best thrown weapons in the game: 2d6 damage, 19-20 crit, x3 multiplier. Add some Master Thrower for extra fun.

Pincer Staff: Underdark: Basically a mancatcher that deals more damage.

Razor Net: Dragon Compendium, p. 115: All the hassle of a regular net, and it does 1d6 damage.

Ritiik: Frostburn: If you successfully hit an enemy, the enemy must make a Reflex Save. If it fails, you get a free Trip Attempt. Basically a weaker version of Knock-Down for free.

Scorpion Claws: +4 to Grapple checks. The bonus is unnamed, so it stacks with Improved Grapple. They're also light weapons, so no Power Attack, but yes for TWF. Sandstorm.

Sharktooth Staff: Savage Species: Gives you a free Grapple attempt when you hit your enemy. Unlike the mancatcher or pincer staff, it has no reach. But it deals the best damage. It’s also worth mentioning that they each have size restrictions.

Spiked Chain: PHB: Useful if you have a ton of reach and a potent magic weapon with an AoO build. But most of the time you can just use a glaive and a 5 ft step. If you're really in a pinch, use armor spikes.

Spinning Sword: Secrets of Sarlona, pg 136. Basically a Spiked Chain that you can only use with one hand. Useful if you want to be a sword and board build, or a TWF build.

Sugliin: Frostburn: Does 2d8 damage, but it’s a full round action to make 1 attack. But hey, until you get to +6 BAB, this is your weapon of choice for pure damage dealing when you’re already standing next to your enemy.

Whip Dagger: Drow of the Underdark: 15 feet of reach, which might be helpful on occasion. You can also use it with the Whip Climber Skill Trick to do Indiana Jones-ish swinging.

Yuan-Ti Serpent Bow: Secrets of Xen'drik pg 137: A bow with curved blades at the edges. You can use it as a ranged weapon or as a melee weapon interchangeably, and it is a treated as a double weapon for magical enhancements (you enchant the bow part and the blade part separately). Not that useful for Haberdash specifically, but a nifty choice for bow builds that fight in dungeons and other closed in spaces a lot.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Found the ol' Haberdash the Masked (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?88633-Haberdash-the-Masked-The-3-5-Kitchen-Sink) build I couldn't call to mind last night, which is not only a great read, but came with a nifty conglomeration of useful exotic weapons.There's also the sand blaster (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?444154-MM3-Sand-Blaster-Exotic-Weapon-Optimization) (MMIII, p58). Doesn't require any attack rolls, so you don't need Exotic Weapon Proficiency, nor do you need (Greater) Weapon Focus or Improved Critical for it. It does work very well with the Aptitude ability, though, since Boomerang Daze is excellent with it, especially once you've massively improved its range. Dazing all enemies in a massive cone is pretty fantastic.

You do need to scale it down to Medium or Small for most characters, and you need to haul ammo around, which gets pretty heavy pretty fast, although adding the Hank's energy bow enhancement means you gain free [force] sand if you don't want to use magically and/or alchemically (or just chemically) enhanced sand or run out of ammo at some point.

[Troacctid]

There's also the sand blaster (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?444154-MM3-Sand-Blaster-Exotic-Weapon-Optimization) (MMIII, p58). Doesn't require any attack rolls, so you don't need Exotic Weapon Proficiency, nor do you need (Greater) Weapon Focus or Improved Critical for it. It does work very well with the Aptitude ability, though, since Boomerang Daze is excellent with it, especially once you've massively improved its range. Dazing all enemies in a massive cone is pretty fantastic.

You do need to scale it down to Medium or Small for most characters, and you need to haul ammo around, which gets pretty heavy pretty fast, although adding the Hank's energy bow enhancement means you gain free [force] sand if you don't want to use magically and/or alchemically (or just chemically) enhanced sand or run out of ammo at some point.
Hank's energy bow isn't an enhancement, it's a specific magic item that doesn't come in sand blaster form.


Found the ol' Haberdash the Masked (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?88633-Haberdash-the-Masked-The-3-5-Kitchen-Sink) build I couldn't call to mind last night, which is not only a great read, but came with a nifty conglomeration of useful exotic weapons.
I do recall there being a fair number of useful exotic weapons that aren't included in Haberdasher's list, like the bone bow, greatcleaver, great crossbow, footbow, dwarven war pike, ramhammer, rivebow, tigerskull club, and skiprock. I'm not sure if there's a more complete version out there or not.

[loky1109]

Is there a list of those somewhere?

Maybe this (http://minmaxforum.com/index.php?topic=9053.0) or this (https://qdoc.tips/base-weapons-v401-pdf-free.html) can be helpful.