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StragaSevera
2022-04-07, 11:04 AM
Hello! I’m an inexperienced DM, trying to make my first campaign for my newbie players, and I want your opinion on an idea for it.

A lot of times, the first-second level of Pathfinder campaign feel different than the rest, because you don't have the "most important item in the game" — a wand of Cure Light Wounds.
My players will be new to the game — so I kinda don't want them to have big issues with out-of-combat healing. And, instead of granting them this wand for free, I thought of an in-universe, campaign-centric idea.

In Russian fairy tales, there are staple magic substances: "living water" (i.e. the water that is alive by itself), and "dead water". The living water heals wounds on living people, and dead water can heal wounds on dead bodies (which can be used both for evil necromancy reasons and, for example, to resurrect a decapitated person — in fairy tales the dead body must be intact for resurrection to work).

So I imagine the start of my campaign going this way — heroes come to remote village that had a spring of living water a long time ago, but it dried out — and now there are rumours that it started producing water again. When they arrive to the village, they discover that the evil goblin shaman dug out the spring's source, and attempts to corrupt it and transform it to produce dead water, craft an undead army, bolster it by the dead water, and make vengeance to humans for driving goblins out of this land. In the end, if all goes right, the heroes manage to stop him and keep the spring uncorrupted.

So I'm thinking about how I want the mechanics of living and dead water to work. I want it to work like this:
A vial of living water, when drunk, works like Cure Light Wounds potion made by 1st-level cleric. A vial of dead water works either like an Inflict Light Wounds potion (if drunk) or as an Restore Corpse oil (if applied to a corpse). There was an ancient alchemical recipe, allowing living water to be transformed to something that would work like a hypothetical Raise Dead oil (if such thing could be possible), but this recipe was lost to the ages.
When a character drinks living or dead water more than two times per day, his body starts to experience negative side effects of boosted regeneration: he starts to receive Constitution (for living) or Charisma (for undead) damage, at the increasing rate — 2 damage for the third drink per day, 4 for fourth drink and so on. After a character drinks this water, for the next week the Cure/Inflict Light Wounds spells and spell-like abilities (but not any other healing spell or ability) are adhering to the same penalty.
The water has its magical properties only while it’s fresh — after a day in a vial/bottle/any container, it becomes an ordinary water, unless it is alchemicaly treated to improve the “shelf life”.

What would you think of this magical substance? Is it imbalanced? I tried to prevent the major abuses (like endless out-of-combat healing or ease of exporting of the water), and at the same time to make both players and the enemy really want to control the substance, but I fear that I may be missing something.

MesiDoomstalker
2022-04-07, 09:48 PM
It's honestly very weak. The stated uses substitute a 50 gp item (Cure Light Wounds Potion), while severely limiting use. It offers no actual benefit over the potion except maybe cost. You could remove the daily limit and still have an underpowered item, because out of combat healing is already cheap and easy.

Eurus
2022-04-09, 06:05 AM
If it's effectively "free" -- because the players have a well or spring that produces large amounts of it or something -- it sounds like it would serve its purpose alright. It gives 1st level characters a way to refill their health once or twice a day, making them able to fight more encounters without being quite so prone to suddenly dying.

If this is a world where most people are 1st level and gold is really limited, that kind of well or spring could be valuable enough to fight over. Giving a bunch of 1st level warriors a free healing potion is fairly significant in a big fight. But as soon as people start hitting 2nd level or so, the water becomes pretty unimportant. Out of combat healing is indeed cheap and easy, as soon as you clear the 1st-level-and-broke hurdle.

Jack_Simth
2022-04-09, 11:39 AM
It's honestly very weak. The stated uses substitute a 50 gp item (Cure Light Wounds Potion), while severely limiting use. It offers no actual benefit over the potion except maybe cost. You could remove the daily limit and still have an underpowered item, because out of combat healing is already cheap and easy.

Agreed: With the expiry date, then yes, it's a minor effect. Even without a per-day limitation, it's not particularly gamebreaking. A fixed-location healing spring where you can go to wash away injuries, and harvest temporary healing potions into bottles? Great for building fortifications around (useful in a siege, or for battles near the place), but not so good for general use. If alchemically stabilizing the stuff is cheap to do, then you could make a profit selling healing potions based on it.

But compare to, say, a Wand of Lesser Vigor (or Infernal Healing, if you go Pathfinder). 750 gp for 550 (500, for Infernal Healing) out of combat HP healing. 1.3636... gp/hp (1.5 gp/hp in PF... although there will be some waste in either case, so the actual number won't be quite that). Portable, no expiry date, fairly easy to use, and you'll usually make up the cost of the entire wand in a single CR 2 battle... and won't go through nearly that much that quickly.

So... yeah, not gamebreaking.

Kermon
2022-04-12, 03:00 AM
My proposal for if you still want a downside would be to make it an addictive substance, where after the first use within say a day they have an increasing fortitude save to avoid becoming addicted. DC starting at 10 and increasing by 1 for every dose of water. If they become addiced they need to get another dose of the water within a day or go into withdrawl where they're sickened for a day before shaking off the addiction. Timeframe and specific numbers are a suggestion.

King of Nowhere
2022-04-12, 03:48 AM
It's honestly very weak. The stated uses substitute a 50 gp item (Cure Light Wounds Potion), while severely limiting use. It offers no actual benefit over the potion except maybe cost. You could remove the daily limit and still have an underpowered item, because out of combat healing is already cheap and easy.

I disagree. Ok, it's weak as a potion, but it's good enough for low level characters, being free.
And just consider the worldbuilding implications of a spring of nearly unlimited free healing. Weak for adventurers, but a huge resource for a village.

I think the OP did a good job of thinking it through. Useful for broke low level characters. Valuable for a community, worth fighting over. Has inherent limitations that stop it from messing up the world economy and power balance