Trouble With Warlock

[Vispilio]

I'm having some difficulty making a non-evil warlock. I don't want him to be planar-touched, which seems to be the primary way to go about it. How can I justify having a non-evil character making pacts with evil beings? Any ideas, insight, or links to non-evil warlock sources would be appreciated. Thanks.

[Flame_Drake]

I'm having some difficulty making a non-evil warlock. I don't want him to be planar-touched, which seems to be the primary way to go about it. How can I justify having a non-evil character making pacts with evil beings? Any ideas, insight, or links to non-evil warlock sources would be appreciated. Thanks.

Simple enough, you could change the flavor so that instead of a pact with fiends, he/she's made a pact with the fey in exchange for the Warlock's powers.

Drake

[Innis Cabal]

12 year old girl, blond pig tails and a nice pink sunday's best dress.

[Zincorium]

I'm having some difficulty making a non-evil warlock. I don't want him to be planar-touched, which seems to be the primary way to go about it. How can I justify having a non-evil character making pacts with evil beings? Any ideas, insight, or links to non-evil warlock sources would be appreciated. Thanks.

The one time I played a warlock, it was a chaotic good halfling with ties to the faerie court. I figured it fit with the DR/cold iron.

Turned out to be a very, very fun character to play. Brodabing Nagon (character's name) was the servant of powers he could neither understand nor comprehend. He had trouble sleeping, ever, because while he knew that he was supposed to be following what the faerie court said, he just plain didn't know what they were talking about. And that scared the little halfling pants off of him.


Anyway, the unseelie variety of fae serves as a very good source of power for non-evil warlocks. I highly recommend it.

[Talic]

Or he made a deal in desperation, that he's now bound by, and uses it to try to defeat other evil, whilst avoiding the aims of the one whose powers he's dependent on?

Kinda Spawn-esque.

[Innis Cabal]

he said he still wants to make pacts with evil creatures, i think he means demons and devils, not fae

[MrNexx]

Option 1) Change the flavor. He's not getting his powers from demons, he's getting it from the fae. Instead of bats, use ravens, sparrows, moths, butterflies, etc. Instead of Dark Speech, it's just a magical phrase that he knows, but cannot teach (it requires a gift of the fae, you see). Most of it just requires a touch of rewrite and works just fine.

Option 2) He's from an evil area, and it's all he knows. In Ars Magica's 4th edition supplement "Hedge Magic", there's a great line by one of the characters that reads "If you tell a man that all spirits are Satans, then when he finds spirits, he will find Satans," or words to that effect. This is a magically gifted person from a land where demons are worshiped, and he's learned the local form of magic. However, it repulses him, so he's struggling to turn it towards HIS ends.

[Vispilio]

I'm not against dealing with the fey at all, but I've been given the impression the unseelie court is malicious. That might be work-aroundable, but seems to be in the same boat as demons/devils. I read a blip on the WOTC website that the seelie court is 'getting into' warlock pacts, but, truth be told, I'm having a lot of trouble finding information on either court. Searches are turning up real world mythology rather than stuff based in D&D, despite my best efforts.

[Skjaldbakka]

Alternately, you could use the Ghostrider backstory, or a derivation thereof.

[averagejoe]

Or he made a deal in desperation, that he's now bound by, and uses it to try to defeat other evil, whilst avoiding the aims of the one whose powers he's dependent on?

Kinda Spawn-esque.

It should be said that Spawn is awsome.

Maybe he used to be evil, but now he isn't, but he can't get out of the deal. Or the deal could be hereditary; his father made the deal, and it got passed down to his children. He could also have made the deal naively, either having rather "modern" ideas about good and evil (taking the stance that good and evil don't exist, for example) or not knowing that the demon was evil.

[Xefas]

I'm having some difficulty making a non-evil warlock. I don't want him to be planar-touched, which seems to be the primary way to go about it. How can I justify having a non-evil character making pacts with evil beings? Any ideas, insight, or links to non-evil warlock sources would be appreciated. Thanks.

I believe the fluff behind the Warlock says they can also be tainted by pacts made by their ancestors.

Or, if you still want him to be actively making pacts and still be non-evil, then perhaps you should look at it from a different perspective. Imagine a guy who goes around righting wrongs, saving damsels, thwarting doomsday plots, and tithing to orphanages...and he just happens to have pledged his eternal soul to the forces of Hell for some blasty power. Maybe he tortures and sacrifices a sentient being or two every now and again for some sort of holiday (Helliday?).

The point is, this guy would be actively doing good in the world- he's a good person with an evil alignment. What's wrong with that?

[Ganurath]

Instead of making a deal, why not be the pawn of one from a now departed third party?

[Skjaldbakka]

The point is, this guy would be actively doing good in the world- he's a good person with an evil alignment. What's wrong with that?

It's doofy?

[Gaelbert]

I made a good aligned warlock a while back, if I remember correctly he didn't actually make a pact, an evil magical thingie (the Snarl, actually) got into his head when he was angry and vulnerable, and helped the character achieve his goals, though the snarl was slowly trying to make the character more and more evil.

[Vispilio]

Just a little background on my situation, here. I'll be playing this character, should I decide to make him, via a video game, not pen and paper. So, I can't fluff my blasts not looking 'evil'. They just do. This also means I can't homebrew incantations.


That said, I want to say thanks for all the responses. They're going a long way towards getting the gears going, so to speak.


I'm still looking for info on the fey courts, however, if anyone has any information on them. It would be greatly appreciated.

[Skjaldbakka]

Huh? Could you be more specific? What exactly is the context in which you are playing this character?

[Vispilio]

I'll be playing on Neverwinter Nights 2 (Say what you like about the game, it has enough flaws to provide material for criticism, no doubt there.) on a roleplaying server ( http://www.anphillia.net/forum/index.php )

So, I'll be bound by the rules of the video game, unfortunately.

[Skjaldbakka]

Then a Spawn or Ghostrider-eque backstory would seem to be approriate.

[Vispilio]

This is true, and may very well be the route I end up going with it, but I'm still very open to suggestion, particularly in regards to the fey courts. When (if) I make up my mind on the matter, I'll drop a line, but until then I'd absolutely love to see more suggestions simply for the sake of finding something unique.

[Ganurath]

Idea:

Desperate Evil Wizard made a deal with Big Bad Evil Demon way back when. BBED came to collect when DEW couldn't pay. DEW made a new deal: He would repay with interest by abducting a child to be made a warlock so evil would be spread. BBED agreed, but the plan backfired: The abducted child, your character, wasn't evil.

[BrotherMick]

I am currently playing a Halfling warlock whos powers come froma deal his father made. After a lifetime of hard work and slavery the father was willing to sacrafice what he could to give his son the "gifts" needed to rise above. The only voice that answered his prayers was an infernal one . O f course the demon twisted the wish and now the son has the "gift".

[Townopolis]

Doesn't it say warlock powers can come from the fey in CArcane, in the class' original introduction. I'd really go with that. Also, I don't believe the fey have a whole lot of supporting lore in D&D. If your server doesn't have their own write-up on the fey, just say he made a pact with some fey, of whatever court, and make it up from there. The only thing known about fey really is that they're chaotic as anything and can be, well, inhuman at times... a lot... in weird ways... and then sometimes they're incredibly hospitable.

Basically, nobody understands the fey.

[Nero24200]

He/she could have been tricked, just because the evil gods are you know...evil..doesn't mean they always let their followers know that. It's possible for an evil god to approach your character under the guise of a good god and say somthing like "This person is evil and a threat to the world, if I give you the power to do so, could you remove this taint of evil?"

Which could explain alot, correct me if I'm wrong but you -can- have good aligned warlocks (albeit, only chaotic good ones)

[Tengu]

Just a little background on my situation, here. I'll be playing this character, should I decide to make him, via a video game, not pen and paper. So, I can't fluff my blasts not looking 'evil'. They just do. This also means I can't homebrew incantations.


In this aspect, consider using the one that causes fear. Apart from being very powerful (enemies that fail their saving throws just stand there and do nothing, and all enemies - even those resistant to mind affecting spells! - receive -2 to several things, including AB), its appearance are shifting rainbow-like colours. That speaks Fey more than actual demon-bound Warlock abilities.

[Altharis]

Argh! It is sad how little people know about their celtic legends!

Anywho: The Fae are an ancient people, steeped in magic and bound by the millions of laws (magical, political and otherwise) of their kind. Their disposition is entirely alien to humans, as they are possessed of a mind that operates on entirely different ideals to humans. They are constantly mystified by our world, and love the myriad sensations of our world. There are two kinds of fae, though both are intricately related. Seelie and Unseelie. Seelie are your traditional fairytale fae, kind, tricksy and whimsical, but also exacting a price for everything. They are notorious for testing humans, but are known to reward interesting subjects. Unseelie fae however, have a prankster streak that borders on the malicious. They are the quintessential pie-nicking boggarts, child-snatching goblins, and even irritable trolls. All fae are bound by many magical geasa, or restrictions, that force them to go through a wild variety of behaviours from asking to come into a house, to fearing iron. Combined with their alien minds and psyches, this can lead to a complete culture shock between humans and fae, and contact are often rare and strained.

Need more? Just ask.

Altharis

[Skjaldbakka]

geasa are not unique to fae in Celtic legend.

[Revlid]

With the fey ruled out, I'd go for either a:

Spawnesque Backstory: You died, and were brought back to life with demonic powers for an unknown purpose.

Ghostrideresque Backstory: You made a deal with a devil to save someone you loved, and lost his soul in exchange. But something or someone intervened in Hell, and your soul was returned to your body alongside a demonic entity.

Darknessesque Backstory: An ancestor made a selfish deal with a demonic entity, which has been exploited down the generations by a largely evil and criminal descendants. You decide to instead use it for good, in the face of its origins.

[OneWinged4ngel]

he said he still wants to make pacts with evil creatures, i think he means demons and devils, not fae

Man, fae are pretty scary in a lot of stories, until you get to the modern disney versions.


With the fey ruled out, I'd go for either a:

Spawnesque Backstory: You died, and were brought back to life with demonic powers for an unknown purpose.

Ghostrideresque Backstory: You made a deal with a devil to save someone you loved, and lost his soul in exchange. But something or someone intervened in Hell, and your soul was returned to your body alongside a demonic entity.

Darknessesque Backstory: An ancestor made a selfish deal with a demonic entity, which has been exploited down the generations by a largely evil and criminal descendants. You decide to instead use it for good, in the face of its origins.

Ninja'd. Really, though, there's any number of reasons you could end up in a pact with fiendish forces without particularly malevolent intent.

A few common, generalized reasons that you can adapt into pretty much anything (and the underlying reasons behind the 3 examples given above):

1) It's not by your character's own will.
2) The fiendish forces have power, and you can use that power for something that's YOUR goal instead of merely theirs.
3) Shades of gray. The moral choice isn't really that clear as to whether the fiendish force is good or bad.

[Skjaldbakka]

What modern fae? All we have are fairies. We don't do fae anymore.

[OneWinged4ngel]

What modern fae? All we have are fairies. We don't do fae anymore.

Even D&D generally makes them Good, and when they're not they're "some weird variant" (Unseelie).

[Emperor Demonking]

You could say that your character thought he was making a deal with an angel.

[mabriss lethe]

I ran a CN goblin warlock named Gragga who made a pact with a female Barghest. Instead of devouring him whole as she originally intended, she only bit off two of his fingers to seal the pact. He was a fast talker and conned her into the deal. He was young and weak, not much much more than junk food for her. She would gift him with power, he, in turn would use that power to grow stronger, and then provide her with a much better meal later on. It would have worked out great for the Barghest, but Gragga (now called Gragga the Maimed) seduced and then later betrayed her, leading her to her death at the hands of his tribe.

[Yeygresh]

I had a Human Warlock(named Seril Vae), whose father had bargained with a devil for power, exchanging his most prized possession for it. His father, being a selfish man, loses his life. The devil, bound by law to keep his end of the bargain gives Seril(his only son) his power.

So, Seril is just sitting in a tavern, drinking his ale, minding his own business, and all the sudden the whole place gets Baleful Utterance'd. After waking up four miles out of town with "Don't come back" written on his arm, he was inclined to figure out what the hell happened to him.

[JaxGaret]

I'll be playing on Neverwinter Nights 2 (Say what you like about the game, it has enough flaws to provide material for criticism, no doubt there.) on a roleplaying server ( http://www.anphillia.net/forum/index.php )

So, I'll be bound by the rules of the video game, unfortunately.

I'm sorry, I seem to be missing something here.

Are you attempting to look for alternate flavor for your potential Warlock for your own personal gratification, or is there actual roleplaying in NWN2 that you are researching for?

I really have no idea about how games like NWN2 deal with roleplaying.

[Vispilio]

There are roleplay servers on both NWNs, and the one I'm trying to come up with my Warlock for is a continuation of a server started on NWN1.

So, is it for my own personal gratification? Yes, in a sense, but I'll be playing the character in a roleplaying environment with a hundred odd other people. It's a relatively small community, and I highly recommend trying it out if you ever get the opportunity. They take roleplaying very seriously there, and it's just an entirely different (not better or worse, per se, just different) environment than what you get with pen and paper and five friends.


The server, Anphillia 2, isn't up yet, I'm just trying to get some character ideas ready for when it does go up in the coming weeks.


Hope that wasn't some sort of advertisement, wasn't my intent.

[graymachine]

I'm having some difficulty making a non-evil warlock. I don't want him to be planar-touched, which seems to be the primary way to go about it. How can I justify having a non-evil character making pacts with evil beings? Any ideas, insight, or links to non-evil warlock sources would be appreciated. Thanks.

Where are these pacts coming from? From what I remember of the Warlock class, its magic is made manifest by having demonic ancestry, similar to the theory that sorcerors have dragon ancestry. I don't recall any pacts with evil beings coming into play, unless you go into the Acolyte of the skin PrC. As I recall the alignment restriction on the class is that you have to be evil or chaotic. I could be wrong about all of this; it's been a while since I read it.

[Leon]

Where are these pacts coming from? From what I remember of the Warlock class, its magic is made manifest by having demonic ancestry, similar to the theory that sorcerors have dragon ancestry. I don't recall any pacts with evil beings coming into play, unless you go into the Acolyte of the skin PrC. As I recall the alignment restriction on the class is that you have to be evil or chaotic. I could be wrong about all of this; it's been a while since I read it.

Demonic heritage is only one of the suggested sources of supernatral magic suggested but sadly also the one that soon after they latch onto as the "only source". all that needs to be done is reword some of the spells to have a less evil tone and it should be ok.
The Pact idea also fits ok with the class and being bound to a creature as your source of magic

[Yami]

Quick and simple backstory? Lawful Evil Character with a bit o' knowledge: (Planes) makes a pact with a devil in order to help out in the Blood War. One unlucky loot pile and a magic helm later our hero finds himself at odds with his current 'benefactors' and holding a helm now devoid of magic.

The fey might be another choice. Fortunately for you, mystery is part of the essence of faerie kind. You don't have to know a huge amount about them. You were chased into the woods by some mooks, and the fey therein felt risking your life would be better than risking thiers. You get some nifty powers and get shoved you back into the fray.

They don't have to be the seelie kind either, so that you'll not need worry about the visual effects. As long as your character lived, they'll keep thier word.

[Person_Man]

There's also the Faust option. There are a ton of different variations on this theme. But essentially, you made a pact with Mephistopheles or some other Evil devil/demon/whatever as part of a noble quest (for knowledge, the power to save the people you love, because you were young and thought you could "beat the devil at his game" and use the power for good ends while getting out of damnation somehow - until you learn about how wrong you were to gamble with your soul). You could have the character actually find redemption over time, you could have him be in constant denial, you could have him be fatalistic - there are a ton of different options out there that allow you to be Good or Neutral while still drawing your power from an Evil source.

[puppyavenger]

For Fae I use the following idea.
Seelie is stepping on a blade of grass breaks a 10,00 year old agreement.
Unseelie is the undisiplined court of monsters and misfits.
May I suggest the feytouched templaate from FF if you go that rout?

[Tokiko Mima]

I'm having some difficulty making a non-evil warlock. I don't want him to be planar-touched, which seems to be the primary way to go about it. How can I justify having a non-evil character making pacts with evil beings? Any ideas, insight, or links to non-evil warlock sources would be appreciated. Thanks.

Warlocks are born, not made. That's actually in the warlock fluff. While you can become a warlock by bargaining with the dark powers, odds are you had the talent already. It works just like a sorcerer: maybe it was dragon blood, or djinni blood, or some ancient ancestor that gave you the ability to invoke.

[Sleet]

Take a page from Harry Dresden. Your warlock has made a deal with his Faery Godmother.

Hear me out. :smallsmile: He bargained for his power with her, and he keeps skipping out on his end of it. Of course, she keeps coming after him, but he keeps figuring out ways of convincing her to a) let him go, and b) give him even more power. This could be the very definition of a CG hero stringing along a CE fey creature for his own benefit.

You'd have to work with your GM, but it could be a barrel of fun.