Bare fisted barbarian

[MisterD]

Is a bare fisted barbarian viable?

I plan on starting V. Human for Unarmed brawler feat (the one that gibes 1D8 damage if not wielding a weapon.) And would like to go 1-20 Zealot Barbarian.

What barbarian features can be used and what features cannot be used bare handed?

what features 'NEED' a weapon?

Answers to the questions and build ideas welcome. Thank you.

[JNAProductions]

Is a bear fisted barbarian viable?

I plan on starting V. Human for Unarmed brawler feat (the one that gibes 1D8 damage if not wielding a weapon.) And would like to go 1-20 Zealot Barbarian.

What barbarian features can be used and what features cannot be used bare handed?

what features 'NEED' a weapon?

Answers to the questions and build ideas welcome. Thank you.

Most Barbarian features require you to use Strength for the attacks.
They may TECHNICALLY require a weapon... But as a DM, I'd be totally fine with using unarmed strikes in place of proper weapons, and I'd imagine most DMs would feel the same. Ask just in case, but this is the kind of request that is unlikely to cause issues.

[Leon]

Is a bear fisted barbarian viable?

Depends on if you can find small enough bears to wield

[strangebloke]

well, depends on what you mean by 'bare fisted.' You can go a long ways with claw/bite attacks like the beast barbarian in particular. There are lots of other natural weapons, like lizardfolk, dhampir, centaur, etc. The unarmed style is fine though. In reality you're better off getting it through a level in fighter than any other means.

As far as optimization here, the main draw is being able to grapple more efficiently, which pushes you to tavern brawler. For barbarians at least this is a decent way to do things, and I've seen reasonably effectively builds that rely on this.

[Unoriginal]

Is a bare fisted barbarian viable?

I plan on starting V. Human for Unarmed brawler feat (the one that gibes 1D8 damage if not wielding a weapon.) And would like to go 1-20 Zealot Barbarian.

What barbarian features can be used and what features cannot be used bare handed?

what features 'NEED' a weapon?

Answers to the questions and build ideas welcome. Thank you.

What are the reasons you want Zealot in particular? Knowing that will help us answer your inquiry.

The Beast Barbarian is all about "unarmed" fighting, or more accurately natural weapon fighting, for example, but if you want Zealot above any subclass it's useless to suggest it.

[MisterD]

What are the reasons you want Zealot in particular? Knowing that will help us answer your inquiry.

The Beast Barbarian is all about "unarmed" fighting, or more accurately natural weapon fighting, for example, but if you want Zealot above any subclass it's useless to suggest it.

The ability to not die while raging at later levels

[Amechra]

There's an annoying bit of anti-synergy between Tavern Brawler and Fighting Initiate (Unarmed Fighting), since the alternate damage dice for your unarmed strikes overlap. Personally, I'd start with a level of Fighter to get the fighting style "for free" and take Tavern Brawler as my 1st level feat, with the logic that being able to do cool things now trumps a capstone feature that I might never even reach. But that's just me.

Alternatively, you could do the following:

Pick Tavern Brawler as your VHuman feat. Your fists deal 1d4 bludgeoning, which isn't great... but you'll have a high Strength score, Rage damage, and Divine Fury to make up for that. Then, at 4th level, take the Crusher feat and bring your Strength to 18 (you did use Tavern Brawler to get to 17 Strength, yeah?). Now your punches clobber people and open them up for future beatings.

You end up sacrificing ~2-ish damage per attack for more utility (that bonus-action grapple and free shove, though). And if you really want that d8 damage die, you can start off with a Fighter dip.

...

The one drawback of going unarmed is that there aren't that many magic items that enhance your unarmed strikes — you're going to want to get your hands on an Eldritch Claw Tattoo sharp-ish.

[Kane0]

Consider asking your DM to just trade your martial weapon proficiency in order to get the unarmed fighting style and have unarmed strike count as a melee weapon

[Unoriginal]

The ability to not die while raging at later levels

How secondary to survivability is this build's damage dealing, for you?

Tavern Brawler could help you more as a first-level feat.

[MisterD]

I have lots of Multi class characters. I am trying to do a few Pure classed characters (1-20) This one is the zealot Barbarian. Seems if I want to go Bare Fisted, I need to go Monk. but I was looking forward to Barbarian .

[Unoriginal]

I have lots of Multi class characters. I am trying to do a few Pure classed characters (1-20) This one is the zealot Barbarian. Seems if I want to go Bare Fisted, I need to go Monk. but I was looking forward to Barbarian .

I mean no, you don't need to go Monk.

Tavern Brawler or Unarmed Fighting Style give you decent fist-fighting options, and there's a magic tattoo if you need to bypass resistance to non-magic attacks.

[Skrum]

Ok this is probably unhelpful advice, but I was just working on this today and feel compelled to mention it: monk 1 beast barb X. Take tavern brawler (and I guess unarmed fighting style? I don't get too mussed about damage dice). Monk 1 gives you martial arts, or "twf" for unarmed strikes. Beast barb gives you an extra attack when raging. By level 6 you'll be making 4 attacks a round.

Less sure on how well this scales (if you're really playing till 20), but it's a very solid street fighter/boxer character. I personally would level monk (so barb 5 monk 15), monk gives *way* more interesting things than barb 6-19

[J-H]

As a DM for a 16th level party, I can confirm that a high level zealot has a VERY VERY short list of things that can kill them.

At, say, 10th level, you're doing the following over 2 attacks:
2d8 (9 avg) (unarmed strike)
10 (strength)
6 (rage)
1d6 (3.5) + 5 = 8.5 radiant damage
= 33.5 DPR, which is entirely reasonable.
By 20th level it scales to 40.5 which is not great, but not too bad either.


The Crusher feat may be a good idea as well, as it gives you a free 5' shove once per turn (use near lava and cliffs). Since you're probably reckless attacking, you have a 15%-20% chance of scoring a crit each round with two attacks, and when you crit, everyone gets advantage on attacks against your target.

I would want to add Sentinel to boost the chances of making a 3rd attack as a reaction, and definitely talk to your DM about some of the magic tattoos that let you enhance your natural attack.

Other than those two feats, I'd just plug away at ASIs to boost STR, CON, and DEX in that order, and then enjoy being an unkillable boxing maching.

[strangebloke]

K, non multiclass build.

Custom lineage with Tavern brawler as first feat to start with 18 str. You want to go Zealot, go zealot, its very strong. Then grab unarmed style at 4th level to complete the 'unarmed' side. You can now BA grapple with advantage while raging, and your hits deal 1d8 damage+4+rage which is more than enough. You can downgrade your fists to 1d6 to pick up a shield, which leaves you very tanky if you like, potentially 19 AC or more. Zealot gives you good save protection too so you're not weak on that front.

From here I'd grab sentinel at 8, because it lets you pretty frequently get a second Zealot smite in (since zealot smite is basically a sneak attack) and gives you a solid theme of controlling space and locking down enemies.

[MisterD]

Level 1
V Human with Unarmed fighting style
STR 16
DEX 12 = Wearing scale mail so AC 15
CON 16
INT 9 (had 1 point left)
Wis 10 Perception / Survival
Cha 10 Intimidation

Rage 2/Long reset with +2 Damage.
Unarmored Defense = 15 AC

Punch = 1D8 + 3 (+5 with rage)
I also get a choice of Martial Weapon or Great Axe (Thinking Bludgeoning weapon)

Thinking ASI:
1 = + 2 STR (18)
2 = Alert +5 initiative (Dex gives +1)
3 = +2 STR (20)
4 = +2 CON or Tough or Durable (CON)
5 = +2 CON or Crusher (CON)

Since going pure Barb no real other decisions.

Any other options?

[CTurbo]

I have played 2 different bare fisted Barbs and they can absolutely be viable as long as you don't expect to be the DPR king of your group.

I will say that in both instances, I was able to start with a 20 Str score so I didn't have to worry about spending any ASIs there. I also chose Tavern Brawler as my first feat. I so think it gives this type of character a lot "more" than the unarmed fighting style. Grappling is big for a character like this and Tavern Brawler makes ANY unarmed strike a 1d4+Str. I used headbutts, elbows, and kicks all the time.

This most recent unarmed Barb, I didn't get Tavern Brawler until level 4 so from 1-3 I was dealing 1+5+2 damage while raging which honestly isn't that bad. I probably will eventually take the unarmed Fighting Style to bump it to 1d8, but it's not that important. Since I'm often punching with my off hand too for 1d4+rage bonus, the TWF style for me seems almost as good as the Unarmed Fighting style.

The first time, I was a Bear Totem Barb, and the second time, I was a Wild Magic Barb. If you want as much DPR as possible, go Zealot.


For you, if you're having to start with point buy, I'd start 16 Str, 14 Dex, 16 Con, 8 Int, 12 Wis, 8 Cha and with Tavern Brawler.
Bump Str at level 4, take Unarmed Fighting at level 8, and max Str at level 12.

[Lavaeolus]

what features 'NEED' a weapon?

The general thrust of Sage Advice about unarmed strikes says that they're 'weapon attacks' and 'melee weapon attacks', but that they're not otherwise weapons or 'attacks with a weapon'.

For the most part, that means a lot of Barbarian features work fine. For instance, Rage and Reckless Attack apply to "melee weapon attack rolls using Strength". Hoorah! Similarly, although the justification for Divine Fury is that you can "channel divine fury into your weapon strikes", the actual effect is, again, about weapon attacks: "the first creature you hit on each of your turns with a weapon attack takes extra damage".

There's one feature that arguably wouldn't work, however. Brutal Critical does trigger on a melee attack, but lets you add "one additional weapon damage die" to your damage. But you don't have a weapon damage die! Your damage die isn't from a weapon. Unfortunately, losing Brutal Critical gives you a few dead levels, since it also gets upgrades. Consider:


I'd probably be willing to handwave this one as a DM, personally. They might also disagree with my reading.


Or you could multiclass out of Barbarian at 7 or 8, sidestepping the issue. You might already be inclined to take a Fighter level for Unarmed Fighting, after all. But I don't know how long your campaign will go on, if getting to 20's guaranteed, etc. Certainly you could go further, if some other higher-level Barbarian features are tempting.

[Boverk]

It's all been covered pretty well, but if you do decide to multiclass, I'd consider Rune Knight Fighter 3.

It gets you:


Unarmed Fighting Style
Action Surge
Grow to be large as a bonus action proficiency times per day
Advantage on Animal Handling and Intimidation (the real reason) checks (Frost Rune)
1 other rune of choice



You enrage, then next turn you get even angrier and double in height.

Tavern Brawler is always fun for hitting baddies with other baddies, especially once you're large.

I'd also get the eldritch claw tattoo for magical attacks like was mentioned before.


If you go Rune Knight, the magical tattoos also go well with the theme of it. You're a Zealot Barbarian who carves runes into things to enhance themselves...get a couple of tattoos for whatever deity you're Zealot-ing for, carve a frost rune into your belt/bit of jewelry, etc.

See if the DM will allow the magic armor tattoos to become available later on

[werescythe]

So have actually done some research into this, the subclasses that work with unarmed strikes pretty well are: Ancestral Guardian, Storm Herald (I'm pretty sure) and Totem Warrior. I hope that helps.

[Garfunion]

I know you’re trying to build a unarmed attack Barbarian but if you’re worried about wording of certain class and Archetype features you could always go for brass knuckles(light club). As a way of getting some semblance of “unarmed” attacking. This is just something that I’ve been thinking about as well.

[Waazraath]

Is a bare fisted barbarian viable?

I plan on starting V. Human for Unarmed brawler feat (the one that gibes 1D8 damage if not wielding a weapon.) And would like to go 1-20 Zealot Barbarian.

What barbarian features can be used and what features cannot be used bare handed?

what features 'NEED' a weapon?

Answers to the questions and build ideas welcome. Thank you.

Not sure how set you are on vhuman and zealot, but if I'd do an unarmed barbarian, I'd always make it at least partly a grappler (hell, you're almost automatically a grapppler with max str athletics and rage for advantage) and then is either /race with flying speed/ or /eagle totem for short fly bursts/ a very nice way to do extra damage and bfc (pick enemy up and drop it where it does not want to be).

[Lunali]

IMO, the biggest problem with an unarmed barbarian is that you need to create a very specific build to not be more effective as the same character by picking up a weapon.

[MisterD]

The general thrust of Sage Advice about unarmed strikes says that they're 'weapon attacks' and 'melee weapon attacks', but that they're not otherwise weapons or 'attacks with a weapon'.

For the most part, that means a lot of Barbarian features work fine. For instance, Rage and Reckless Attack apply to "melee weapon attack rolls using Strength". Hoorah! Similarly, although the justification for Divine Fury is that you can "channel divine fury into your weapon strikes", the actual effect is, again, about weapon attacks: "the first creature you hit on each of your turns with a weapon attack takes extra damage".

There's one feature that arguably wouldn't work, however. Brutal Critical does trigger on a melee attack, but lets you add "one additional weapon damage die" to your damage. But you don't have an additional weapon damage die! Your damage die isn't from a weapon. Unfortunately, losing Brutal Critical gives you a few dead levels, since it also gets upgrades. Consider:


I'd probably be willing to handwave this one as a DM, personally. They might also disagree with my reading.


Or you could multiclass out of Barbarian at 7 or 8, sidestepping the issue. You might already be inclined to take a Fighter level for Unarmed Fighting, after all. But I don't know how long your campaign will go on, if getting to 20's guaranteed, etc. Certainly you could go further, if some other higher-level Barbarian features are tempting.



Character will be for Adventurer's League. So eventual 20 (Location I play has a few tier 4 games.

[Teaguethebean]

The ability to not die while raging at later levels

Are you ever reaching lv14? I worry that people see that feature and then forget that almost no games go to that level.

[Kane0]

Its not like Zealot is a bad subclass before 14, the bonus damage and save rerolls are solid.