Artificer/Wizard MC cheese?

[Foolwise]

Would you allow a player to copy their prepared Artificer spells into their Wizard spellbook? For a single level dip, their wizard spellbook would get 14 new spells and the player would only need to prepare their 4 non-wizard Artificer spells afterwards. Would they even have a reason to prep a wizard Artificer spell (assuming they can cast their Wizard spells)?

Probably wouldn't need to worry about 2nd level spells since that would require 5 levels of Artificer.

[stoutstien]

Would you allow a player to copy their prepared Artificer spells into their Wizard spellbook? For a single level dip, their wizard spellbook would get 14 new spells and the player would only need to prepare their 4 non-wizard Artificer spells afterwards. Would they even have a reason to prep a wizard Artificer spell (assuming they can cast their Wizard spells)?

Probably wouldn't need to worry about 2nd level spells since that would require 5 levels of Artificer.

RaW learning a spell via a different class doesn't automatically allow you to add it to the wizard's spells book so in no way is this cheese as much as a potential houserule. The only ways to officially add spells are gaining wizard levels or copying it from another written source such as a scroll or another wizard's book.

So the player could copy the spells to scrolls and then copy them into the spellbook.

[ProsecutorGodot]

Unless they've taken the time and effort to scribe those scrolls and they also happen to be Wizard spells, no.

I'm not really understanding how this interaction would be any different than a traditional Wizard multiclass with another spellcaster, you don't have access to your other classes spells in written form so you can't copy them.

They're also still limited by preparation for Wizard and Artificer. Even if they had every potential 1st level spell known they can only prepare a certain amount of them.

Really, what's the cheese here?

[Damon_Tor]

What would be the point? Artificers can already change out their spells on a long rest.

[nickl_2000]

What would be the point? Artificers can already change out their spells on a long rest.

Do artificers get any rituals wizards don't get.

[Foolwise]

Ahhh. I was under the wrong assumption that Wizard was a Known Spells class.

[Foolwise]

Do artificers get any rituals wizards don't get.

At 1st level, Arts get Purify Food/Drink that Wiz don't.
At 3rd, they get Water Walk and thats it.

[ProsecutorGodot]

Ahhh. I was under the wrong assumption that Wizard was a Known Spells class.

Wizard is effectively both, your spellbook is your spells known however you can only prepare a certain number of them.

[Quietus]

What would be the point? Artificers can already change out their spells on a long rest.

Flexibility, I imagine. If you have a spell both on your artificer spell list and in your wizard spell book, you can choose to prepare it from either one of your classes.

[Damon_Tor]

Flexibility, I imagine. If you have a spell both on your artificer spell list and in your wizard spell book, you can choose to prepare it from either one of your classes.

If that's all it is, I have a REALLY hard time calling it cheese.

[Foolwise]

I thought it was cheese bc I thought Wizard didn't prepare spells so it would be a way to have every Artificer 1st level spell available to use each day.

[diplomancer]

I'd say the cheese would be in the ritual spells; prepare all Artificer Ritual spells that Wizards also have, copy them on your spellbook, and voila, you don't need to use your "level up" wizard spells for level 1 Rituals.

It's not that powerful, actually, unless your DM actively hates Wizards and never gives you any opportunity of getting new spells for your spellbook. Even then, I wouldn't call it *powerful*, just helpful.


I thought it was cheese bc I thought Wizard didn't prepare spells so it would be a way to have every Artificer 1st level spell available to use each day.

But Wizards DO prepare spells, they can't just cast any spell that's in their spellbook, unless it's a ritual; and then only AS a ritual, if they haven't chosen one of their preparation slots for it.

[Sigreid]

I would not, because their magic works differently. Different principles. I would, however; agree that if they make spell scrolls, those scrolls could be copied into the book. So, yes but with extra steps?

[ProsecutorGodot]

I'd say the cheese would be in the ritual spells; prepare all Artificer Ritual spells that Wizards also have, copy them on your spellbook, and voila, you don't need to use your "level up" wizard spells for level 1 Rituals.

It's not that powerful, actually, unless your DM actively hates Wizards and never gives you any opportunity of getting new spells for your spellbook. Even then, I wouldn't call it *powerful*, just helpful.

Again, only if you spend the time and gold it takes to first scribe those scrolls so you actually can copy them. You can't just copy spells you know into your spellbook, they have to be found in a written form. The only benefit is that you'll have the ability to scribe the scrolls yourself, if you use the Xanathar's scribing rules it takes 1 day and 25gp to scribe a 1st level spell scroll. Then you copy that scroll into your spellbook.

[Leon]

Not unless they make scrolls for all of them as that how wizards get extra spells to put in the book

[No brains]

RaW learning a spell via a different class doesn't automatically allow you to add it to the wizard's spells book so in no way is this cheese as much as a potential houserule. The only ways to officially add spells are gaining wizard levels or copying it from another written source such as a scroll or another wizard's book.

So the player could copy the spells to scrolls and then copy them into the spellbook.

There is theoretically a third way: a wizard may research and create a new spell.

[stoutstien]

There is theoretically a third way: a wizard may research and create a new spell.

So can anyone technically seeing how it's DM fiat territory.

[No brains]

So can anyone technically seeing how it's DM fiat territory.

I might be misremembering, but I thought 5e actually had instructions on creating spells? Or is this one of those cases where the rules are so vague that people don't consider them rules?

[stoutstien]

I might be misremembering, but I thought 5e actually had instructions on creating spells? Or is this one of those cases where the rules are so vague that people don't consider them rules?

Few mentions in XGtE, DMG, and TGtE but it's even more grey than crafting.