Best (Combat) forms for Wildshape Ranger

[Yogibear41]

What are some of the best combat forms for a wildshape ranger from say levels 8ish to 13ish. Looking for forms with good armor class and/or good damage output via natural weaponry.

Would prefer to avoid dinosaur forms if able, they likely won't be available in our setting.

[H_H_F_F]

Straight wild shape ranger? Not going MoMF? Not takinf any nonsense feats to open up non animal forms?

Dire lions are pretty good for level 8, I think.

[Gorthawar]

Straight wild shape ranger? Not going MoMF? Not takinf any nonsense feats to open up non animal forms?

Dire lions are pretty good for level 8, I think.
I believe a wild shape ranger is limited to small and medium animals only. And without the fleshraker your pickings are quite slim of the top of my hat. There is the desmodu hunting bat with decent stats but you can use that well before level 8 already. Legendary eagle becomes available at level 12 and legendary ape at level 13. Hope this helps.

[H_H_F_F]

I believe a wild shape ranger is limited to small and medium animals only.

Right you are. My bad.

[Beni-Kujaku]

Honestly, I believe the leopard is the best you've got. 2 claws, one bite, plus pounce, improved rake and two more raking claw attacks when it pounces. The stats are not bad either. Honestly, it's quite overpowered for a Medium animal and should probably be CR 3. There's also the dire badger if you argue that the rage ability can increase your HP, but I still think it's the inferior form.

Flying forms are more useful for utility, but the dire hawk is really not bad as a combat form, with really high dexterity and natural armor, especially for a bird, and three natural weapons.

[noce]

Unfortunately, the only medium Animals with more than a couple HDs are legendary animals.
Everybody keeps saying in forums that wildshape ranger is better than standard ranger, T3 Vs T4 and the like.
Truth is, it's not (unless you explicitly exploit the fact that you get wild shape on a full bab class, for example taking levels in MoMF or Primeval).
Otherwise, a mid-level wildshape ranger compares poorly to the already lackluster base ranger, your best bet is to use wildshape for utility and a greatsword in melee.

[Nihilarian]

Any excuse to ditch the bow or daggers is already an improvement over the base ranger. Ranger itself doesn't have the bonus damage to use those styles, but they have the BAB to power attack just fine. And power attack works with natural weapons so even if you're focusing on one big sword for combat, your animal forms won't be helpless.

However Wildshape Ranger really shines with Swift Hunter. Turn into a Leopard and get pounce with 5 attacks, all of which get bonus damage. I like it because the typical Wildshape plan is to get as big and nasty as you can. A sneaky, roguish shapeshifter is cool.

The Serval from Sandstorm is pretty much a small size Leopard. Leopard is probably still better but it's there if you need it.

[Gnaeus]

Straight wild shape ranger? Not going MoMF? Not takinf any nonsense feats to open up non animal forms

As mentioned, you can get better forms via feats. Aberration wild shape is 2 feats but best options. Otherwise, dragon wild shape is available at 12 or frozen wild shape gives frost salamander at 12.


Unfortunately, the only medium Animals with more than a couple HDs are legendary animals.
Everybody keeps saying in forums that wildshape ranger is better than standard ranger, T3 Vs T4 and the like.
Truth is, it's not (unless you explicitly exploit the fact that you get wild shape on a full bab class, for example taking levels in MoMF or Primeval).
Otherwise, a mid-level wildshape ranger compares poorly to the already lackluster base ranger, your best bet is to use wildshape for utility and a greatsword in melee.

Yes, if you don't take options that build on your abilities, those abilities tend to be trash. That's like saying if you don't take ranged combat feats you will underperform at ranged combat. Sure. Why would you do that? I'm not a big fan of WS ranger compared with druid. But WS ranger can and should optimize WS (with PRCs or feats). That's presumably why you take WS ranger.

[Soranar]

at 13 HD the legendary ape is the way to go

-it's a tool user (can walk on 2 legs and has opposable thumbs) so you can use a weapon 2 handed
-it has 30 STR and it can wear armor (again humanoid though you might need barding depending on the DM)

before that, short of a dinosaur, you have a leopard that's not terrible for the pounce/rake

or a crocodile for the improved grab attack

finally you can always transform into a baboon (15 STR 14 DEX ) and use a weapon


At earlier levels the wildshape is mostly a movement option (flight, swim, climb), it's only when legendary creatures show up that it truly shines.

If you want a prestige class that's very good for you, a Vermin Keeper gets better wildshape and a crazy giant beetle as a pet

[Biggus]

The official list can be found here: https://web.archive.org/web/20161101181246/http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/lists/monsters&tablesort=4

Short answer: legendary animals are the only ones above CR3.



Yes, if you don't take options that build on your abilities, those abilities tend to be trash. That's like saying if you don't take ranged combat feats you will underperform at ranged combat. Sure. Why would you do that? I'm not a big fan of WS ranger compared with druid. But WS ranger can and should optimize WS (with PRCs or feats). That's presumably why you take WS ranger.

I don't think saying "this class is good if you stop taking it as soon as possible and take another class instead" means something is a good class...

[Nihilarian]

Classes can be good on their own and also gain significant power from prestige classes. Wildshape Ranger is perfectly viable single classed but yeah, stuff designed to power up wild shape is going to power up wild shape.

Really the biggest issue with the class is not having access to shapeshifting at level 1.

[Wildstag]

I'll be honest, I think Exalted Wild Shape with a couple of levels in Warshaper would be good too, since then you can become a blink dog, which isn't great, but is fun. Blinky-bois are always more fun than the stationary alternative.

[liquidformat]

I don't think saying "this class is good if you stop taking it as soon as possible and take another class instead" means something is a good class...

I call BS, the fact that it gives you access to wild shape PRCs in a game focused around PRCs is important in and of itself. Don't pretend like most people don't jump into PRCs as soon as they can.

Anyways as is said above this thing is fine even without hopping into MoMFs or Primeval. Between wild shape feats, gaining new movement modes, and things like swift hunter it can be very good even without hopping into those high end PRCs.

I would avoid Frozen Wild Shape, you aren't getting much bang for your buck, without access to larger forms it is really nerfed.

Exalted Wild Shape is always a favorite of mine just because you gain access to all the ex and su abilities of all your animals that you tack the celestial template to so you can pickup 120' blindsense when you use desomdu hunting bat form, also blink dog is another nice utility form.

Dragon Wild Shape is amazing the only real downside is you can't take it until level 12 but even then it adds a lot of power since you again gain all ex and su abilities of the dragon form you take.

Aberration wild shape is probably the hardest to gage since it really requires dumpster diving to find your optimal forms that will turn you into a natural attack blender or requires assume supernatural ability with a specifically powerful form. The biggest plus side to Aberration wild shape is that you can take the feat at level 6 and assume supernatural ability by 9 so it can potentially come online earlier than dragon wild shape.

[Gnaeus]

I don't think saying "this class is good if you stop taking it as soon as possible and take another class instead" means something is a good class...

I don't think saying "take feats related to WS" means "this class is good if you stop taking it as soon as possible and take another class instead". Which is also not to say that PRCs are IRRELEVANT to the base classes. I rarely see a discussion of Beguiler that doesn't discuss list expanding PRCs they qualify for. But I'm sure if I did it would discuss the ways to do the same things with feats and items.


stuff

Yeah, frozen is better for druids. I forget about exalted, none of our players ever qualified for it. Honestly, if not PRCing, you're going to want a way to access enhance WS. I suspect that UMD abuse on a wand is easiest. That + aberration gives all the goodies like natural invisibility.

[Yogibear41]

Would be using Planar Shepherd so at level 14+ I would be using outsider forms pretty much exclusively. Was just looking for decent options to help me get there. Will look into the Legendary Animals, although I thought most of those were of large or bigger size.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

I think the only reasonable non-dinosaur combat form is the legendary ape. It's Medium-size and is the only one that's decently strong that's less than Large size. There's really nothing else of consequence that I'm aware of that isn't a swarm (or possibly a mob). I don't remember the rules for mobs, but you might be able to wild shape into one, if it counts as a single creature in its stat block. Which opens up a TON of neat options, if so.

[Nihilarian]

Getting into Planar Shepherd as a wildshape ranger requires some additional work. You'll have to figure out a way to spontaneously cast SNA to qualify for the qualifying feats

[H_H_F_F]

I think the only reasonable non-dinosaur combat form is the legendary ape. It's Medium-size and is the only one that's decently strong that's less than Large size. There's really nothing else of consequence that I'm aware of that isn't a swarm (or possibly a mob). I don't remember the rules for mobs, but you might be able to wild shape into one, if it counts as a single creature in its stat block. Which opens up a TON of neat options, if so.

Mobs have 30 HD.

[loky1109]

You can't WS into creature with template and mobs are gargantuan size, so no.

[Yogibear41]

Getting into Planar Shepherd as a wildshape ranger requires some additional work. You'll have to figure out a way to spontaneously cast SNA to qualify for the qualifying feats


Not if you use the adaptation.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Mobs have 30 HD.


You can't WS into creature with template and mobs are gargantuan size, so no.Ah. Thanks.

Swarms are still open, though, but all of the ones I can think of are too small. Rat, bat, crow, and dove are the only ones off the top of my head, and other than some utility, mobility, and the dove swarm's immunity to weapons, none of them are very helpful. Plus, as I said, they're too small. Is there some way to take smaller and larger forms outside of a PrC?

[liquidformat]

Not if you use the adaptation.

What do you mean adaptation, is that a feat or something?

[sleepyphoenixx]

Ah. Thanks.

Swarms are still open, though, but all of the ones I can think of are too small. Rat, bat, crow, and dove are the only ones off the top of my head, and other than some utility, mobility, and the dove swarm's immunity to weapons, none of them are very helpful. Plus, as I said, they're too small. Is there some way to take smaller and larger forms outside of a PrC?

There's a swarm shape ACF for druids in the Cityscape WE. It shouldn't be too hard to adapt to WS ranger.
But unless you houserule it to actually grant you the swarm subtype it's not very useful since most of the good swarm abilities come from that.

Edit: source is CS WE, not Sandstorm

[Yogibear41]

What do you mean adaptation, is that a feat or something?

No its the class adaptation written after the class description for non-eberron settings.

[AnonJr]

Getting into Planar Shepherd as a wildshape ranger requires some additional work. You'll have to figure out a way to spontaneously cast SNA to qualify for the qualifying feats


Not if you use the adaptation.

... ok, that took longer than it should have to suss out.

On page 109 of Faiths of Eberron, there's this: (italics mine)

Adaptation
If you do not envision the Greensingers as planar scholars, or your campaign is not set in Eberron, you can easily adapt the planar shepherd to suit your own needs. Drop the Greensinger Initiate feat and replace it with initiation into a different organization specializing in the planes; alternatively, leave any such requirement off and allow characters to enter through personal interest. If manifest zones do not exist in your campaign, the 10th level ability to create one could instead allow creation of a planar touchstone (Planar Handbook 153).

So at DM's discretion, if you're not in Eberron you can ignore the pre-requs that would require spontaneous SNA casting. Though they could also just require initiation in some other group that may have it's own issues.

That assumes they're not in Eberron and/or the DM is willing to waive the Initiate feats or sub them for some other easier feat. I was going to suggest - Ranger casting being what it is - if it would it be worth looking at the Spontaneous Divine Casting (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/spontaneousDivineCasters.htm) adaptation from Unearthed Arcana to meet the "spontaneous SNA" ... but it looks like rules for Rangers aren't there. :smallconfused:

[Yogibear41]

There is a spontaneous ranger variant in one of the dragonlance books if you absolutely had to have it. But my DM has already let me use the "personal interest" adaptation in the past. Unfortunately didn't get to use that character a lot to toy around with different forms, and also they were of a different alignment/plane so I used a magical beast form that was exclusive to the abyss for them.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Think outside the combat-box a bit?

You could always buy some spellcasting services for permanency+shrink item on some boulders, then use your Small hawk or raven form (they can both get quite big) to carry a bundle of them above your foes, and drop them onto your enemies' heads.

[AnonJr]

There is a spontaneous ranger variant in one of the dragonlance books if you absolutely had to have it. But my DM has already let me use the "personal interest" adaptation in the past. Unfortunately didn't get to use that character a lot to toy around with different forms, and also they were of a different alignment/plane so I used a magical beast form that was exclusive to the abyss for them.
I'll have to look for that. Mostly I like having options handy, and these days my time and energy has been limited so when I play I play spontaneous casters so I can constrain the number of spells I have to remember are available to me. :smalltongue:

[remetagross]

In case you spend the whole day Wild shaped into a Legendary Ape or Legendary Eagle, pick an Illumian race, the Aeshkrau or Uurkrau Illumian words, and enjoy the bonus spells per day granted by a 30 Str or Dex.