Changing the Spellcasting Stat to INT for different classes - what would you play?

[Wasp]

Hi everyone

If you wanted to play an INT caster and could pick the following (sub)classes as being based on INT

Lore Bard,
Arcana Cleric,
Knowledge Cleric,
Stars Druid,
Clockwork Soul Sorcerer, and
All Warlocks

in addition to

All Wizards,
All Artificers,
Arcane Trickster, and
Eldritch Knight

--- what would you play?

And what other casters would make sense as being based on INT?

[nickl_2000]

I would love to play an Int based Fathomless Warlock. I would love to play a Warlock without the pressure of being the face.

[Psyren]

I would definitely do an Int-based Clockwork Soul, Lore Bard or Tomelock (any except Hexblade).

As far as Int-based subclasses you got all the ones on my list.

[Arkhios]

I feel compelled to expand on this idea:

Intelligence is the spellcasting stat for all classes that classify as Arcane spellcasters, potentially depending on their subclasses.
Wisdom is the spellcasting stat for all classes that classify as Divine spellcasters, potentially depending on their subclasses.
Charisma is the spellcasting stat for all classes that would classify as Psionic spellcasters, potentially depending on their subclasses.


That said, onto the topic at hand:

I would like playing a Lore bard, Stars druid, or any Warlock, really.

Stars druid I would love to play regardless of their spellcasting stat, and Warlocks I do actually prefer more as an Int class than as a Cha class, hands down.

[solidork]

My last character was a Warlock/Fighter that ended up wearing a Headband of Intellect until level 20 so I wish I had thought to be Int base way back when I first made him.

[Cikomyr2]

I say do a full reflavor of the character unstead of cutting of the corners of the square peg.

Create a new class, "The Professor" - has the exact same abilities as the Bard but hes now Int-based.

Instead of Bardic Inspiration, name it "Professorial Advice".


Also, change the Monk to be cha-based and name him the "Dashing Swordsman" as well as proficiency with a rapier.

[Rafaelfras]

Warlock should be int for the get go.
Everything in the class description screams Int.
Would make hexvoker way easier to get 😈

[RogueJK]

First, INT-based Hexblade along with the other INT-based changes is begging for abuse. For example: Hexblade 1/Arcana Cleric X (INT-SAD Arcana Cleric Frontliner, now with 100% more Shield!)

Then imagine Hexblade 1/Bladesinger X. And it makes the "Nuclear Wizard" Hexvoker build even easier to achieve.


Personally, using these changes I'd run my "Ultimate Counterspeller Stars Wizard" build using the INT-based Stars Druid 2/Abjuration Wizard X.

Here's the standard version, with the normal WIS-based Stars Druid. It works as-is, but is pretty much locked into Tortle by MAD necessity, in order to have a decent AC of 17/19:
Tortle Stars Druid 2/Abjurer X
STR 8
DEX 10
CON 13
INT 15+2
WIS 15+1
CHA 10
Abjurer 5 -> Stars 2 -> Abjurer X (Or start Stars 2 first, if you'd prefer to have Druid skill proficiencies and get Druid spells and 19 AC online sooner, at the cost of delaying Counterspell and Fireball.) Take a +1 INT half-feat like Telekinetic or Fey Touched at Abjurer 4. Take Resilient CON at Abjurer 8. +2 INT at Abjurer 12.

With this combo, Stars Druid's Dragon Form means auto-counterspell for up to Level 4/5 spells from Abjurer 5 through Abjurer 9, and then auto-counterspell for all levels of spells from then on.




But with an INT-based Stars Druid, you wouldn't need to invest in WIS, and wouldn't need to be a Tortle to have a decent AC. You could do any race with something like:
STR 8
DEX 15+1
CON 13
INT 15+2
WIS 10
CHA 10
Still taking +1 INT half-feat like Telekinetic or Fey Touched at Abjurer 4, Resilient CON at Abjurer 8, and +2 INT at Abjurer 12.

[Cikomyr2]

First, INT-based Hexblade along with the other INT-based changes is begging for abuse. For example: Hexblade 1/Arcana Cleric X (INT-SAD Arcana Cleric Frontliner, now with 100% more Shield!)

Then imagine Hexblade 1/Bladesinger X. And it makes the "Nuclear Wizard" Hexvoker build even easier to achieve.


Personally, using these changes I'd run my "Ultimate Counterspeller Stars Wizard" build using the INT-based Stars Druid 2/Abjuration Wizard X.

Here's the standard version, with the normal WIS-based Stars Druid. It works as-is, but is pretty much locked into Tortle by MAD necessity, in order to have a decent AC of 17/19:
Tortle Stars Druid 2/Abjurer X
STR 8
DEX 10
CON 13
INT 15+2
WIS 15+1
CHA 10
Abjurer 5 -> Stars 2 -> Abjurer X (Or start Stars 2 first, if you'd prefer to have Druid skill proficiencies and get Druid spells and 19 AC online sooner, at the cost of delaying Counterspell and Fireball.) Take a +1 INT half-feat like Telekinetic or Fey Touched at Abjurer 4. Take Resilient CON at Abjurer 8. +2 INT at Abjurer 12.

With this combo, Stars Druid's Dragon Form means auto-counterspell for up to Level 4/5 spells from Abjurer 5 through Abjurer 9, and then auto-counterspell for all levels of spells from then on.




But with an INT-based Stars Druid, you wouldn't need to invest in WIS, and wouldn't need to be a Tortle to have a decent AC. You could do any race with something like:
STR 8
DEX 15+1
CON 13
INT 15+2
WIS 10
CHA 10
Still taking +1 INT half-feat like Telekinetic or Fey Touched at Abjurer 4, Resilient CON at Abjurer 8, and +2 INT at Abjurer 12.

This is a good point overall.

If i am a DM, I'm going to allow these custom class flies as long as you dont do multiclass.

You wanna play an Int Bard or an Int Warlock? Well sir play your flippin' Int Bard or Int Warlock mister.

[heavyfuel]

Oh boy, I was about to say that a Wizadin would be much stronger than any Sorcadin, but then I opened the thread and saw that Paladins were'nt an option. Shame :smalltongue:

With the options presented, I'be very much inclined to playing a Hexblade/Bladesinger. No need to rely on finesse weapons on top of some extra DPR due to Curse. I could absolutely play that

[Anymage]

I'm tempted to open this up a bit more, because the idea of a Cha bladesinger (or EK/AT, since they seem more sorcererlike than wizardlike) appeals to me.

Assuming no multiclassing (so this is more about flavor than wacky dip shenanigans), what characters/subclasses would appeal to you if you could make any caster run off of any mental stat of your choosing?

[solidork]

I'm tempted to open this up a bit more, because the idea of a Cha bladesinger (or EK/AT, since they seem more sorcererlike than wizardlike) appeals to me.

Assuming no multiclassing (so this is more about flavor than wacky dip shenanigans), what characters/subclasses would appeal to you if you could make any caster run off of any mental stat of your choosing?

I'm actually going to be play a Glamour Bard that would honestly work well as a Wis Bard. He's a half satyr (custom origin) and I'm flavoring his bard abilities as his fey nature becoming stronger rather than a skill he's learning and developing.* He's more or less a shepherd who isn't particularly adept at manipulating people, with proficiencies in Perception, Medicine, Animal Handling, Stealth, Survival and Nature. One thing that wouldn't fit with a high wisdom is that I'm going to play him as being naive and easily tricked because of his isolated upbringing.

*If only we had a fey bloodline sorcerer... I might still do Glamour Bard because of how cool I think the level 6 ability is.

[Kane0]

INTlock is already a favourite of mine, so i'd probably try something different like an Int Arcana Cleric or Int Star Druid

[animorte]

I would love to play a Warlock without the pressure of being the face.

Just get Cloak of Flies invocation and you automatically have disadvantage on all Cha-based checks except Intimidation. I personally find it to be very useful.

[solidork]

Just get Cloak of Flies invocation and you automatically have disadvantage on all Cha-based checks except Intimidation. I personally find it to be very useful.

Thats still kinda making yourself the center of social interactions, just changing the tenor of them. Not really a 'fade into the background' kinda ability.

[Greywander]

What, no paladins of the Numerical Order?

Beware the Irrational, the Imaginary, and the Undefined.

I'm gonna teach you some calculus by showing you the limit of your HP as it approaches 0.

What do you call a triangle with only two sides? Heresy.

Nothing like a good battleaxe for when you want to divide evenly with no remainder.

[Ogre Mage]

Clockwork Soul Sorcerer.

[Wasp]

I'm tempted to open this up a bit more, because the idea of a Cha bladesinger (or EK/AT, since they seem more sorcererlike than wizardlike) appeals to me.

Assuming no multiclassing (so this is more about flavor than wacky dip shenanigans), what characters/subclasses would appeal to you if you could make any caster run off of any mental stat of your choosing?

Of course, no problem. I think I would love to play a Divine Trickster based on WIS. Don't know what multiclass shenanigans are possible with that, but I like the flavor of being not QUITE a Divine Soul Sorcerer...


What, no paladins of the Numerical Order?
Hmm... Now would that be a Devotion or a Vengeance Paladin? :smallbiggrin:

[ender241]

Of course, no problem. I think I would love to play a Divine Trickster based on WIS. Don't know what multiclass shenanigans are possible with that, but I like the flavor of being not QUITE a Divine Soul Sorcerer...

Isn't that just a Trickery Domain Cleric?

[Derges]

Can't I just have a CHA based Edlrich Knight instead of an INT one?

[Khrysaes]

Can't I just have a CHA based Edlrich Knight instead of an INT one?

Id been thinking the same thing.

But also wis eldritch knight. Maybe with cleric spell list.
Wis and cha arcane trickster.
Wis and cha psychic knight and soulknife.
Int warlocks
And now because of this thread

Int and cha subclasses for other classes like lore bard, knowledge cleric, arcana cleric, clockwork soul, stars druid, and more.

[Wasp]

What *would* be some new and interesting multiclassing ideas if you could change all spellcasting stats? Bladesinger Paladin Hexblades?

[Jervis]

Hi everyone

If you wanted to play an INT caster and could pick the following (sub)classes as being based on INT

Lore Bard,
Arcana Cleric,
Knowledge Cleric,
Stars Druid,
Clockwork Soul Sorcerer, and
All Warlocks

in addition to

All Wizards,
All Artificers,
Arcane Trickster, and
Eldritch Knight

--- what would you play?

And what other casters would make sense as being based on INT?

For one thing, assuming every warlock changes any mention of Cha to Int, I would go Hexblade 3/Bladesinger 6 to make everyone cry. Probably take the Crossbow expert feat as well to be Int SAD and fire off a Eldritch Blast + 2 hand crossbow shots a turn. Granted this only comes online at 9 and looses 3 levels of wizard progression but that’s not terrible given what you get.

[Burley]

I know you're talking about casters here, but I really want to play an Int-based monk and be like Sherlock Holmes (in the movie) where he goes all Batman-detective-mode and spots all the weaknesses before he flurries them blows.

[Jervis]

I know you're talking about casters here, but I really want to play an Int-based monk and be like Sherlock Holmes (in the movie) where he goes all Batman-detective-mode and spots all the weaknesses before he flurries them blows.

That’s not all to inaccurate to book Sherlock. He never fought exactly like that but he was a boxer

[animorte]

Thats still kinda making yourself the center of social interactions, just changing the tenor of them. Not really a 'fade into the background' kinda ability.

I disagree. I feel it encourages your party to take the lead in certain situations that need to be handled with more diplomacy.

[Wasp]

I know you're talking about casters here, but I really want to play an Int-based monk and be like Sherlock Holmes (in the movie) where he goes all Batman-detective-mode and spots all the weaknesses before he flurries them blows.
I like it! I could also see a Battle Master being based on Intelligence. So more of a strategist or Marshall flavor...

And as for other casters: what would you all do if you wanted to play a CHA Arcane Trickster? I always wanted to play an AT that had the Mask of Many Faces from warlock and Subtle Spell from Sorcerer and if all three classes were based on the same stat that seems like a possibility... Is there a build that would make sense?

[Burley]

I like it! I could also see a Battle Master being based on Intelligence. So more of a strategist or Marshall flavor...

And as for other casters: what would you all do if you wanted to play a CHA Arcane Trickster? I always wanted to play an AT that had the Mask of Many Faces from warlock and Subtle Spell from Sorcerer and if all three classes were based on the same stat that seems like a possibility... Is there a build that would make sense?

That's how I imagine Roy from OotS. Way back in the Starmetal arc, I think, he mentions having the second highest Int in the party. He went to college for Fightering and was as studious as his father wanted him to be, only studying sword arts instead of arcane arts.

Also, is Arcane Trickster not Charisma? I guess I always thought of them as rogue w/ sorc (since they have spells known and slots like a sorc). ~Looks it up~ Well, I'll be an avuncular ape. I'd 100% let any player at my table trade Int for Cha on Arcane Trickster. 111%

[Kane0]

That's how I imagine Roy from OotS. Way back in the Starmetal arc, I think, he mentions having the second highest Int in the party. He went to college for Fightering and was as studious as his father wanted him to be, only studying sword arts instead of arcane arts.


Wouldve made for a good Warblade.

[Psyren]

Wouldve made for a good Warblade.

His father wouldn't spring for the Master's Degree :smallbiggrin: