Why are raven (and only raven) familiars able to speak?

[noce]

I find it really odd that raven familiars, and only raven familiars, can speak one language of its master's choice.

Common ravens can't speak in d&d, the animal itself has nothing special that other animals don't have.
So, it has to be magic: in fact, it is the master that can pick the language, implying that the familiar's ability to speak comes from its bond with the master. But, if it's magic, why other familiars can't do the same?

Anatomically a raven doesn't have any advantage compared to other animals. Speaking is easier with lips and teeth, which the raven lacks. A common raven can't mimic human voice either, unlike parrots.

I really can't figure out why raven familiars can speak and all other familiars can't.

[Blackhawk748]

Because Ravens are incredibly smart and this shows up in various legends and old stories. Like Odin's Ravens. Thats what its mimicking.

[Kurald Galain]

Nevermore.

[Gruftzwerg]

Parrots (Stormwrack/Dragon 351) have the same stats and are also able to speak a language as familiar.

And finally there are Thrush (Tome and Blood).

[Silly Name]

A common raven can't mimic human voice either, unlike parrots.

Some corvids are actually pretty damn good at imitating human speech (you can find more than a few videos of "talking ravens" online), and this is probably what gave rise to the above-mentioned myths.

[Metastachydium]

Yup. Ravens, crows, jays – they are all pretty good at sounding vaguely human (the raven familiar's speech and kenkus' mimicry are among the more realistic things in D&D, really). Also, like it or not, many birds can imitate human speech quite well, but I can't really think of any mammal capable of the same off the top of my head.

[Asmotherion]

Because real life Ravens can talk, the same way parrots do.

[Fouredged Sword]

Because real life Ravens can talk, the same way parrots do.

Really most birds should be able to talk given human levels of intelligence. Birds have an entirely different and more or less superior means of creating sound. Rather than vocal chords paired with a complex mouth and tongue, birds generally have what is called a syrinx. Our voice box works like a woodwind instrument that we then modulate with our mouth to produce sounds. Bird syrinx works basically like speakers installed into the sides of their throats and they just produce the sound they want to with no need to modulate the sound using things like lips and tongue. This is why a parrot can not only produce human speech with no lips, but can mimic a specific human's voice with a shocking amount of accuracy. It is also why birds are so loud for their size, with their syrinx able to generate sound directly without needing lung capacity to blow air over a thin bit of muscle.

[noce]

All replies are helpful and interesting.
But both me and your replies didn't address the big picture.

Let's say that a raven familiar is intelligent enough to understand a language, and has the biological tools to produce sound in that language, so it is effectively able to speak while other familiars can't.
Well, then other familiars should still be able to understand a single language, while unable to speak. Why isn't it so?

[Jack_Simth]

All replies are helpful and interesting.
But both me and your replies didn't address the big picture.

Let's say that a raven familiar is intelligent enough to understand a language, and has the biological tools to produce sound in that language, so it is effectively able to speak while other familiars can't.
Well, then other familiars should still be able to understand a single language, while unable to speak. Why isn't it so?
Familiars can understand regular language (As can anything with an Int of 3 or better (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/intro.htm#abilities)). What makes you think they can't?

[Seward]

I'm pretty sure the ravens where I used to live knew at least one word.

When we walked our dog, you'd hear the lookout basically going "Dog! Dog! Dog!" in raven-speak. It was a cry different from others they used.

But yeah, what others said. It's the same reason vipers give a bluff bonus. It fits legends of how they are, in the case of the Viper in western myth, goes all the way back to Eden.

[Troacctid]

The raven is the only animal on the standard familiar list that is physically capable of producing human speech. So, when you give Quoth enough Int to know a language, he can speak that language as well as understand it. Makes sense to me.

[daremetoidareyo]

Nevermore.

Came here to say this.

Pleasantly surprised to find this handled.

[Duke of Urrel]

In D&D, being able to speak a language relies much more on what's in your mouth than on what's in your head.

In D&D, being able to LEARN a language well enough to SPEAK it requires an Intelligence score of at least 3. However, the rules of the Polymorph subschool (and of the Baleful Polymorph spell (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/balefulPolymorph.htm) in particular) make clear that, if you can understand a language and your Intelligence score drops below 3 because of polymorphing, you can still REMEMBER, and still understand, every language you could formerly speak, even if you can no longer speak it because your mouth isn't right. If you were formerly literate, you can even, for a limited time, WRITE in each language you could formerly speak by scratching in the dirt with a paw.

Beyond this, even non-Intelligent, Mindless creatures of the Construct and Undead type can understand simple commands, though they cannot speak, whether they have mouths with tongues and teeth (like zombies) or not (like skeletons and golems).

[Gnaeus]

Remember also that speech in 3.5 is more than communication. It imparts abilities like speaking command words and making UMD chacks. So expanding that list is more than a fluff change, it has crunch implications

[St Fan]

Like many things, it's a matter of game balance.

Raven familiars give their master a +3 bonus to a skill like all familiars, but this skill is Appraise, which is generally not considered as useful as the other skills enhanced by different familiars. Hence, they get a bonus perks to compensate this.

Note that, at least in 3rd edition, this ability to speak is supernatural. Hence your raven familiar will only be able to caw while in an antimagic field.

For fluff only, my wizard character favors a magpie instead of a raven as familiar (exact same stats and speaking ability).

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Simian familiars should be able to speak in drow sign language (or other forms of somatic-based humanoid languages) if the owner could speak them.

RAW, no, but it would make sense if that was the case.

[edit] Apparently, a number of monkeys are fully capable of physically forming words, but their intellects prevent them from speaking: https://www.science.org/content/article/why-monkeys-can-t-talk-and-what-they-would-sound-if-they-could#:~:text=Monkeys%20and%20apes%20lack%20the,pr oduce%20at%20least%20rudimentary%20speech.

[Seward]

Babies and Chimpanzees at least can learn sign language (babies before they can form words) at least for simpler concepts.

One of my friends raised their kid that way and it did in fact work. Based on that single data point the upside is you get less frustrated crying when they're young, as they have more tools to communicate what they want and need than just various forms of crying. The downside is teaching them to actually speak can take longer, because they're doing ok at communicating with their hands.

[mucat]

many birds can imitate human speech quite well, but I can't really think of any mammal capable of the same off the top of my head.
Well, I can think of one...

[Jay R]

A lot of D&D rules are arbitrary. There is no reason for it beyond "whoever wrote that rule thought it was balanced and cool and sufficiently evocative of some myths to be worth doing."

[Fiery Diamond]

Well, I can think of one...

Pretty sure "other than humans themselves" was implied, there. :smallamused:

[Zombulian]

Anatomically a raven doesn't have any advantage compared to other animals. Speaking is easier with lips and teeth, which the raven lacks. A common raven can't mimic human voice either, unlike parrots.

Wrong :smallcool:
https://youtu.be/AfsnHVaScjg

[Ramza00]

To be a dog familiar and frustrated with its lack of hands (sign language) and its tongue (verbal speech) and the human has not brought its 100 different buttons which allow it to communicate rudimentary speech.

That dog familiar needs that collar from the cat April's Fool article so it can use unseen servant at will and can do rudimentary writting and self-petting.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Wrong :smallcool:
https://youtu.be/AfsnHVaScjgAn article I read earlier says the syrinx -- a bird's voicebox -- is basically a biological version of an electronic speaker.

[ShurikVch]

From the articles in the Wikipedia, among the "talking" animals are:

Parrots: grey parrot (Alex (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alex_(parrot)), N'kisi (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N%27kisi)), ara, amazon parrots, cockatoo, Loriinae, budgerigar
Corvidae: raven, crow, magpie (Clara in Karagandy Zoo (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karagandy_Zoo)), rook, western jackdaw
Passeridae: lyrebird
Starlings: common starling, common myna, black-collared starling
Songbirds: nightingales, canary, jay
Primates - apes: chimps (Viki (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viki_(chimpanzee)), Washoe (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washoe_(chimpanzee)), Johnny, Kokomo Jr., Renata), gorillas (Koko (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koko_(gorilla))), orangutans (Chantek (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chantek), Tilda, Rocky)
Pets and livestock: dogs (Fluffy on America's Funniest Home Videos, Odie the talking pug, Don (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don_the_Talking_Dog), Corinna the German sheepdog in Prague 1959), cats (Oh Long Johnson, Blackie the Talking Cat (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miles_v._City_Council_of_Augusta,_Georgia)), pigs, horses (Clever Hans (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clever_Hans)), goats
Gef (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gef)
Hoover (seal) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoover_(seal))
Elephants: Batyr (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Batyr), Kosik (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kosik_(elephant))
Cetaceans: NOC (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NOC_(whale)), Wikie (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikie), Peter the dolphine

[Akal Saris]

Just to add, the thrush familiar (Tome & Blood) is one of the three bird familiars that can speak a language, which is a nod to The Hobbit.

[nedz]

Gary Gygax.

[bekeleven]

Passeridae: lyrebird
Give me this familiar (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSB71jNq-yQ)

[St Fan]

Give me this familiar (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSB71jNq-yQ)

The lyrebird is the Man of a Thousand Voices of the animal kingdom.

[Thurbane]

Nevermore.

Wakka wakka wakka.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rIX_6TBeph0

Isn't there a splat, maybe Stormwrack, that also lets parrot familiars speak? As already pointed out.

[Miss Disaster]

Dragon #341 (p. 88) has a crow as a familiar option. Unfortunately, it grants its master a +2 bonus on Fortitude saves. And says nothing about any speaking benefits.

One thing to note about raven familiars. People often forget how large these birds can get. Some up to 2' in height. I recently saw some at a park where they were the same size as the ducks. Crows are significantly smaller. This all becomes relevant when you have things like a gnome or halfling claiming that their raven familiar is perched on their shoulder most of the time. That would be quite a sight. :-)

[Raven777]

The lyrebird is the Man of a Thousand Voices of the animal kingdom.

Thay have Ghost Sound as a SLA, IRL.

[Seward]

This all becomes relevant when you have things like a gnome or halfling claiming that their raven familiar is perched on their shoulder most of the time. That would be quite a sight. :-)

When there is only 1 size difference you can't normally share spaces - but the solution is an exotic riding saddle (with the Gnome as the "mount" and the raven as the "rider")

I've always wanted to do a Gnome/Hawk familiar guy who cast reduce on himself and enlarge with share spells on the hawk to ride it, but it never seemed to be a practical thing to do in actual play. The hawk is actually strong enough for that to work, I think, if the gnome is carrying the usual minimal gear of an arcane caster. Just don't wear a handy haversack (those damn things weigh 5lb no matter what size you are)

[Metastachydium]

Thay have Ghost Sound as a SLA, IRL.

Nope. It's an Ex ability. There's no stopping it! (Eat your heart out, AMF and dead magic! Go birdies!)

[nedz]

When there is only 1 size difference you can't normally share spaces - but the solution is an exotic riding saddle (with the Gnome as the "mount" and the raven as the "rider")

I've always wanted to do a Gnome/Hawk familiar guy who cast reduce on himself and enlarge with share spells on the hawk to ride it, but it never seemed to be a practical thing to do in actual play. The hawk is actually strong enough for that to work, I think, if the gnome is carrying the usual minimal gear of an arcane caster. Just don't wear a handy haversack (those damn things weigh 5lb no matter what size you are)

Gnome/Halfling/(any small) Druid with the Elemental Companion ACF.
Once it gets to size medium (4th level IIRC) you can whiz around on your Air Elemental at high speed.
Only slightly cheesy.

[Seward]

Druids have all kinds of ways to fly all day, so it isn't as exciting. What I liked about the idea was you could do it (for a minute, using all of your spell slots granted) at level 1. There are some "take feats to get better familiar" options that make it a 24x7 thing for a small arcane caster down the road that you could grow into. I just never could get past the early levels where it was a cute trick, but didn't actually do much to help the party.

In Pathfinder Society I did manage to play a Gnome with a baby-roc animal companion that could be a flying mount from level 1, and she was growing into a pretty effective cavalry-type unit when I stopped playing (she was L5-6ish). That had a bunch of other stuff you can't duplicate in 3.5 though (including a monk archetype that was never surprised and could basically always make ride checks, teamwork feats that passed the inability to be surprised to the companion as well, bodyguarding stuff that let them protect each other, etc etc, plus faster feat progression which helps any cavalry build). So I did eventually get to do the "tiny flying cavalry" thing in real play in a form that was actually practical. Just never quite made it come together in 3.5.