Building a city manually is hard work...how much arcane magic could do the job?

[Habeed]

It occurred to me that D&D has various spontaneous "create" spells, or at least spells that are implied to create something. (it is possible that the way the spells actually "work" is that they are just a specialized form of teleport. For instance, create food and drink may teleport in these items from somewhere else, or Mordenkainen's magnificent mansion probably doesn't actually create a whole mansion and servants from thin air)

Anyways, I do think that at some level of power an arcane mage should be able to cause an entire building, or even an entire city to rise spontaneously from the earth. Perhaps the rock of the earth below the construction site would become fluid and shape itself into the desired buildings, castle, and walls.

A souped up level 7-9 version of Prestidigitation would surely allow one to do quite a bit of heavy construction work with just a nap and some casting time.

I mean, molding all those bricks by hand is an ENORMOUS amount of work. There has to be a way to get it all done more easily.

P.S. Or, I suppose, you could summon up some kind of craftsman to slave away for 1/hour per level for you...

[Ancalagon]

Getting a city is pretty simple:

Summon a Demon-Lord (a high-level caster should be able to do that in a longer ritual) and say: "Ok, here is the deal! You build a nice city - complete with walls and fort - for us and as reward you will get all souls of the people living there after they die". Simple, isn't it? I bet there may be other problems but we can figure out those later.

[Wyrd]

Well there are tons of creatures less dire than a demonlord one can summon or build to work. Earth elementals and such comes to mind for the heavy stonework or golems that would work endlessly.

V's barred school of magic is conjuration right ? So I guess an army of helpful summoned/built/animated creatures is out of the question but already a "Mass Enlarge/Bull Strength" on a group of worker would help plenty with the heavy stuff.

Now pure arcane magic .. I suppose a private demi-plane with everything already in it is a solution ;)

[factotum]

Even if arcane magic would be useful, I bet V won't help; firstly, he's too fixated on his scrying attempts, and secondly, the last time he had to do anything of the kind (using Bigby's Grasping Hand to build rocks into the breach in Azure City) he made it quite clear doing so was beneath his dignity and he was only doing it because of the immediate emergency.

[Angafirith]

Even if arcane magic would be useful, I bet V won't help; firstly, he's too fixated on his scrying attempts, and secondly, the last time he had to do anything of the kind (using Bigby's Grasping Hand to build rocks into the breach in Azure City) he made it quite clear doing so was beneath his dignity and he was only doing it because of the immediate emergency.

I think you're right. But, does Azure City happen to have an arcane caster of their own?

Honestly, I'm getting the impression that they don't. They sent the OOTS to the other ship, rather than their own wizard. I suppose that they might have a wizard that lacks the Fly spell, though.

[lord_khaine]

well for a start, if you want to build something its hard to get around Wall of stone, it allows for permanent wall's of stone, making it possibel to get the skeleton of a building done in a couple of days.

[Yuki Akuma]

Now pure arcane magic .. I suppose a private demi-plane with everything already in it is a solution ;)

Unfortunately, private demiplanes are ninth-level Conjuration spells and don't even come with buildings, just scenary.

[Green Bean]

I suppose an arcanist with item making feats could craft a Lyre of Building (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#lyreofBuilding) for Elan. At his level of Perform (String Instruments), he'd probably never fail the skill check, and be able to play it continuously.

[factotum]

I think you're right. But, does Azure City happen to have an arcane caster of their own?


I think they probably will have a few, but they won't be very high level. The highest level one we know about (the one who teleported OotS to Cliffport) got eaten, and any high level ones remaining ought to have been obvious during the battle--at the very least, you would have expected Tsukiko to have a much harder time clearing the castle walls if there had been any high level arcane casters up there, and a Cloudkill or two at the breach wouldn't have hurt either.

[David Argall]

Even if arcane magic would be useful, I bet V won't help; the last time he had to do anything of the kind (using Bigby's Grasping Hand to build rocks into the breach in Azure City) he made it quite clear doing so was beneath his dignity and he was only doing it because of the immediate emergency.

But he did it. While arcane magic will likely prove of limited utility this way, V will do what he/she can.

[Wrecan]

With a lyre of building and the spells wall of stone, wall of iron and fabricate, Vaarsuvius and Elan working together could probably build a city in a few months.

Now, since Elan will be choosing the style of the architecture, I'd be a bit concerned as to what the city looks like...

[SoD]

How long (ish) should it take for a town of about 200ish people to be built? Assuming that none of them have anything better to do than to build. Y'know, if a PC accidentally burnt down the town and the surrounding forrest. For the players first ever battle. Ever.

[Ruduen]

Since we know that he put Power Word: Blind into his spellbook, Level 7 spells are probably his max. Shame his barred spells are conjurations, since they could've come in handy (Summoning help, the wall spells, etc.). Still, Move Earth, Fabricate, Mass Bull's Strength/Cat's Grace/Fox's Cunning/Enlarge Person would come in handy. Not to mention, Durkon's got a few spells too. Planar Ally, Mass Buff, Wall of Stone, and Create Food and Water would all come in handy.

And we know that Azure City had at least has one arcane spellcasters. Remember Sangwaan? I seriously doubt that she's the only one, though. They've probably got at least a few more.

The idea of giving Elan a Lyre of Building is interesting, but remember it would cost 6,500 gold, 13 days, and a bit of EXP. Still, if it's possible to get one, it would definitely be helpful. Assuming Elan has to rest, and rolls a few bad rolls, the effect of building for a few hundred people that fast would be good. The main concern with that idea is that... It's Elan. I'm scared as to what kind of buildings he might try to construct.

[Angafirith]

And we know that Azure City had at least has one arcane spellcasters. Remember Sangwaan? I seriously doubt that she's the only one, though. They've probably got at least a few more.

Getting bit through the stomach and thrown off the walls by an invisible zombie silver dragon tends to make it hard to work as an arcane spellcaster. As for other arcane spellcasters, they may have been Tsukiko's first targets.

What's important here is not whether there ever were arcane spellcasters, but whether there are now.

[Lord Zentei]

With a lyre of building and the spells wall of stone, wall of iron and fabricate, Vaarsuvius and Elan working together could probably build a city in a few months.

Now, since Elan will be choosing the style of the architecture, I'd be a bit concerned as to what the city looks like...

Alas, Vaarsuvius foolishly barred Conjuration, meaning that he cannot cast Wall of Stone or Wall of Iron.

[Hyozo]

Getting bit through the stomach and thrown off the walls by an invisible zombie silver dragon tends to make it hard to work as an arcane spellcaster. As for other arcane spellcasters, they may have been Tsukiko's first targets.

What's important here is not whether there ever were arcane spellcasters, but whether there are now.

Probably (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0426.html), assuming Kubota's ally hasn't killed them all. If every noble had a teleporting wizard serving them, who would most likely be a conjuration specialist, then they should all be capable of casting Wall of Stone at a caster level of at least 9. In addition, V. could probably make permanent walls of force, provided s/he would be willing to provide the necessary Xp.

[Chronos]

The idea of giving Elan a Lyre of Building is interesting, but remember it would cost 6,500 gold, 13 days, and a bit of EXP. Still, if it's possible to get one, it would definitely be helpful. Assuming Elan has to rest, and rolls a few bad rolls, the effect of building for a few hundred people that fast would be good. The main concern with that idea is that... It's Elan. I'm scared as to what kind of buildings he might try to construct.Most likely, Elan makes a DC 18 Perform (string instruments) check even on a natural 1, so we don't have to worry about bad rolls. And the "few hundred" is only if he works for a half-hour... If he puts in a full day's work each day (which he can, if he doesn't have to worry about failing the checks), he'd do the equivalent work of 4,800 laborers.

Which would make for quite the magnificent Temple of Banjo.

[silvadel]

That is why I really do not like the 3rd edition magic creation system. It should never be -- oh, I will spend 6500 gold, 13 days, and the exp I earned from killing the trolls and I will get with absolute certainty that lyre of building I wanted.

Something like a lyre of building shouldnt be that easy to make.

[Strengfellow]

Well after hiring an arthitect (Dwarven for preference), move earth and wall of stone are all you need.

With those and enough time even the great wall of china is within your grasp.

[Revanmal]

Well after hiring an arthitect (Dwarven for preference), move earth and wall of stone are all you need.

With those and enough time even the great wall of china is within your grasp.

Yeah, but Dwarves are not always trustworthy (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0276.html). (last panel)

[Strengfellow]

Yeah, but Dwarves are not always trustworthy (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0276.html). (last panel)

Fair point, but humans are inept (see LFG) Gnomes are insane and Elfs are hippies, Best of a bad bunch.

Although you could threaten to shave their mother in the event of a structural failure.

[Kai Maera]

That is why I really do not like the 3rd edition magic creation system. It should never be -- oh, I will spend 6500 gold, 13 days, and the exp I earned from killing the trolls and I will get with absolute certainty that lyre of building I wanted.

Something like a lyre of building shouldnt be that easy to make.

Please do recall that almost everyone you meet in real life is between levels 1 to 2, the greatest people on earth being about level 5. Now consider that gold is currently selling for $828.10 per ounce. Now take that 13,000 coins would weigh well over 100 pounds if they were cut into the size of dimes.

Is it easy to make a Lyre of Building, or is your GM going easy on you?

[Triaxx]

That weight is why we use Platinum for large value objects. Besides, you can reduce the cost by hunting down the materials instead of having to purchase them.

Besides, Earth to Stone provides blocks on site. Throw up wood frames, fill with sand and use Earth to Stone. Instant solid wall. With a bit of ingenuity, you can mortise the joints for strength.

Besides, a Druid would be more helpful.

[Ganurath]

Wall of Stone (from an NPC wizard since V banned Conjuration) and Polymorph Any Object once V's high enough will make an instant stone town. Enough of this pair will make a fortified city.

[silvadel]

Please do recall that almost everyone you meet in real life is between levels 1 to 2, the greatest people on earth being about level 5. Now consider that gold is currently selling for $828.10 per ounce. Now take that 13,000 coins would weigh well over 100 pounds if they were cut into the size of dimes.

Is it easy to make a Lyre of Building, or is your GM going easy on you?

It isnt really compatible to think of it that way(gold is worth FAR LESS in an AD&D setting than it is here -- even with regard to currency -- I mean 5,000gp worth of gems is TONS easier to get than 5,000 gold coins). And at any rate I am higher than level 2 even with regard to that essay as well as having some very high stats (and some very low ones). Even if it cost a million dollars for a lyre of building in the real world, you would have tons of people who were jockying to get one. <But see above -- 13,000 gold coins in gems would probably be no more than $3,000 if you chose the right gem types>

[Manga Shoggoth]

Getting a city is pretty simple:

Summon a Demon-Lord (a high-level caster should be able to do that in a longer ritual) and say: "Ok, here is the deal! You build a nice city - complete with walls and fort - for us and as reward you will get all souls of the people living there after they die". Simple, isn't it? I bet there may be other problems but we can figure out those later.

I can see that going down well with the Sapphire Guard. Why not summon someone more angelic?

(OK, we could possibly describe Elan + harp as cherubic...)

[spectralphoenix]

It isnt really compatible to think of it that way(gold is worth FAR LESS in an AD&D setting than it is here -- even with regard to currency -- I mean 5,000gp worth of gems is TONS easier to get than 5,000 gold coins). And at any rate I am higher than level 2 even with regard to that essay as well as having some very high stats (and some very low ones). Even if it cost a million dollars for a lyre of building in the real world, you would have tons of people who were jockying to get one. <But see above -- 13,000 gold coins in gems would probably be no more than $3,000 if you chose the right gem types>

D&D is based off of a medieval setting, however. The wealth is much more concentrated in the hands of a few. But I don't think it's terribly unreasonable for most rulers to have access to magic items. All but four of the base PC classes can cast spells (and monks get around a billion supernatural abilities) so magic shouldn't be all that rare in the rest of the world.

Are you saying you preferred the 2nd edition version where a 20th level wizard had to go on three quests to get the materials for a 1st level spell scroll that may end up secretly cursed anyway?