Urban Druid, Urban Shape question

[Calimmacil]

I'm making an urban druid for my table to fight, and I'm looking at the urban shape options and finding the options very limiting.

"Urban Shape (Su): At 5th-level, an urban druid gains the ability to turn herself into any Small or Medium urban creature. This ability functions identically to a druid's wild shape ability, save that the list of forms the urban druid can take is much more specialized: It is limited to creatures with the humanoid type or to any non-construct creatures from her urban companion list (see above)."

Although the referenced urban companion list is very limited, I'm consoled that some (like the Monstrous scorpion) have advanced HD options. The NPC is level 9, so an advanced large Monstrous scorpion with 9 HD is a solid option.

My main question is about the creatures of the humanoid type that this urban drud could transform into. I'm finding that most humanoids have only 1 HD, but that they advance by class.

Would this mean that a L9 urban druid elf could change into a 9 HD urban druid human, dwarf, Gnome, etc? Druids and urban druids are limited to transforming into creatures with equal or less HD than themselves, but I don't know whether class HD could fall into this for humanoids.

[Jack_Simth]

I'm making an urban druid for my table to fight, and I'm looking at the urban shape options and finding the options very limiting.

"Urban Shape (Su): At 5th-level, an urban druid gains the ability to turn herself into any Small or Medium urban creature. This ability functions identically to a druid's wild shape ability, save that the list of forms the urban druid can take is much more specialized: It is limited to creatures with the humanoid type or to any non-construct creatures from her urban companion list (see above)."

Although the referenced urban companion list is very limited, I'm consoled that some (like the Monstrous scorpion) have advanced HD options. The NPC is level 9, so an advanced large Monstrous scorpion with 9 HD is a solid option.

My main question is about the creatures of the humanoid type that this urban drud could transform into. I'm finding that most humanoids have only 1 HD, but that they advance by class.

Would this mean that a L9 urban druid elf could change into a 9 HD urban druid human, dwarf, Gnome, etc? Druids and urban druids are limited to transforming into creatures with equal or less HD than themselves, but I don't know whether class HD could fall into this for humanoids.

Also things like trog's or raptorians. You'll want to look up alter self guides.

[Gruftzwerg]

Urban Shape and Humanoid forms:

1)

The new form's Hit Dice can't exceed the character's druid level.
Wild Shape's limitation is HD and not RHD!

2)
In 3.5 Wild Shape rules stopped being Polymorph dependant. It got altered to be now based on the Alternate Form special ability.

3)
The Alter Self/Poly line has a limitation that restricts you to the average stats of the target form.

You are effectively disguised as an average member of the new form’s race.

4)
So Wild Shape (and thus Urban Shape) is now not restricted anymore to shape into "an average member" of the new form's race. So, a (Urban) Druid can shape into specific targets. The limitation here is that "you need to be familiar with the target form". Since we lack any further instructions, you have to rely on your DM's interpretation, how long it takes to become familiar with a specific individual target form ( so the DM has at least a balancing tool to prevent the druid from shaping into everything he just saw once, if the DM wants to keep the power of the ability low).

Conclusion: RAW
You can, if you are familiar enough, urban shape into specific humanoids. This includes the HD from class lvls. Nothing in the Wild Shape rules limits you to RHD forms! Since the sole limitation is HD, those from class lvl fit perfectly here.
This gets especially nasty is you add Master of Many Forms lvl 7 ability to get all special qualities of the target form.


Check with your DM how he wants to handle this. How much time it needs to become familiar with specific target forms. If the DM finds this to strong, it is fine to require weeks, month or even years of familiarity for specific individual forms to prevent abuse.

Imho the change for Wild Shape away from the Polymorph line caused some changes, where it is unclear if this was intended or not. So take this with care, before possibly breaking the game balance at your table (dunno how optimized your table likes to play).

[Calimmacil]

Well, I'm the DM, but there's also a (vanilla) druid at the table...and I don't want to start a wildshape arms race that devolves into complete madness.

So this is quite a bit more OP than I expected and I'll have to think it over a bit.

Just to clarify though, would this mean that if I polymorphed the Lvl 9 Urban Druid into an average human with 9 levels of barbarian, she would get the benefit of d12 hit dice? I was expecting that I would only be able to the Urban Druid's own type of class for those HD.

[Gruftzwerg]

2

Just to clarify though, would this mean that if I polymorphed the Lvl 9 Urban Druid into an average human with 9 levels of barbarian, she would get the benefit of d12 hit dice? I was expecting that I would only be able to the Urban Druid's own type of class for those HD.

Polymorphed (?):
Polymorph doesn't allow to turn into specific creatures, thus you can't have a target form with class lvls.
This sole works with Wild/Urban Shape.

Wild/Urban Shape:
The HD restricts the forms you can shape into, but as always, you still keep your HD, HP, BAB, and so on, as described by the ability.

here the Alternate Form ability (Wild Shape is based on) as friendly reminder:



The creature retains the type and subtype of its original form. It gains the size of its new form. If the new form has the aquatic subtype, the creature gains that subtype as well.

The creature loses the natural weapons, natural armor, and movement modes of its original form, as well as any extraordinary special attacks of its original form not derived from class levels (such as the barbarian’s rage class feature).

The creature gains the natural weapons, natural armor, movement modes, and extraordinary special attacks of its new form.

The creature retains the special qualities of its original form. It does not gain any special qualities of its new form.

The creature retains the spell-like abilities and supernatural attacks of its old form (except for breath weapons and gaze attacks). It does not gain the spell-like abilities or supernatural attacks of its new form.

The creature gains the physical ability scores (Str, Dex, Con) of its new form. It retains the mental ability scores (Int, Wis, Cha) of its original form. Apply any changed physical ability score modifiers in all appropriate areas with one exception: the creature retains the hit points of its original form despite any change to its Constitution.

Except as described elsewhere, the creature retains all other game statistics of its original form, including (but not necessarily limited to) HD, hit points, skill ranks, feats, base attack bonus, and base save bonuses.

The creature retains any spellcasting ability it had in its original form, although it must be able to speak intelligibly to cast spells with verbal components and it must have humanlike hands to cast spells with somatic components.

The creature is effectively camouflaged as a creature of its new form, and it gains a +10 bonus on Disguise checks if it uses this ability to create a disguise.

Any gear worn or carried by the creature that can’t be worn or carried in its new form instead falls to the ground in its space. If the creature changes size, any gear it wears or carries that can be worn or carried in its new form changes size to match the new size. (Nonhumanoid-shaped creatures can’t wear armor designed for humanoid-shaped creatures, and viceversa.) Gear returns to normal size if dropped.


Wild/Urban Shape alters the duration, available target forms and:

Any gear worn or carried by the druid melds into the new form and becomes nonfunctional. When the druid reverts to her true form, any objects previously melded into the new form reappear in the same location on her body that they previously occupied and are once again functional. Any new items worn in the assumed form fall off and land at the druid's feet.

The sole thing to worry here about the Urban Druid is, that he gets the Special Attacks of his target form. This would let him copy things like Sneak Attack a target humanoid has (even if from class lvls).
IF you want to keep the Urban Druid balanced, just don't give him any "familiar" humanoid forms with Special Attacks from class lvls.

[Calimmacil]

Thanks, that answered my question!

[Seward]

Agree with others that the primary appeal of Urban forms are the humanoid forms.

While your gear melds, if you want to be a hobgoblin all day, you can take it off (if you are medium sized humanoid) and put it back on and it isn't as awkward as barding/etc is with nonhumanoid forms. Obviously the disguise potential is useful too, but there are a lot of wimpy, clumsy druids out there that might like being an "average" member of some of the better humanoid races just when hanging out in the city, leaving aside combat benefits.

Also you can spellcast as a humanoid without the feat tax of natural spell, which will be appealing to some. You can still be a rat or raven or something when that's useful. Mostly urban druid eliminates some of the more "I go into melee" combat forms, and many druids would find "can shift into humanoid" a fine tradeoff for that.

(and no, you can't shift into class levels with alternate form. If a Doppleganger can't do it, you can't do it either, it's the same MM ability. you can LOOK like Lord Robilar or Mordenkeinen by assuming human form, but you can't BE them. Class abilities have nothing to do with the form you are assuming)

As noted a few humanoids get special attacks from their racial template (Dark Creeper gets 1d6 sneak attack for example) so there are some combat benefits beyond a bit of extra dex, strength, natural armor or having a bite attack and/or claws. But your benchmark is something like Leopard, Fleshraker Dinosaur or Black Bear, and humanoids are going to fall short of that mark.