warlock assassin... how to go about it... WITHOUT necessarily minmaxing

[dehro]

I am set to play a warlock and for background reasons I would like him to build up to becoming something of a fearful assassin, as in a guy who singles out one of the opponents and does not stop doing stuff until the target is down.. without (eventually) multiclassing too egregiously.
The character is a 5th level and I want to start him with 5 levels in warlock,... most likely a Duergar, but I am open to other dwarvish races (yes, I know, not necessarily the best warlock.. as I said, I am looking on how to make it work, not how to make the best possible combo).

I am thinking, purely for the cool factor, about the darkness+devil's sight combo, maybe with mobility tossed in for good measure.. in case of course I decide to go up close.. if not, I can still use the combo without mobility to become a dark cloud of raining stuff from above..

so.. what pacts, invocations and feats would complement this fairly random assortment of things? after the first 5 levels of warlock, I will probably take at least another one, for plot reasons.. after which I could go rogue, or fighter, or something entirely different if you have better ideas.

Dwarf is non negotiable, first 5 levels of warlock (maybe sixt) also... and I am very interested into looking to make the darkness theme work...but I can be swayed otherwise.

[Skrum]

Sneak attack doesn't work with eldritch blast, so if you're going that route, well, you can't. Hexblade with a light weapon would work though.

Action surge does let you fire two EB's, so that's pretty good. Warlock and fighter have essentially all of their abilities come back on a short rest, which I like the synergy of.

Straight warlock doesn't really do burst damage, so an assassin in the sense of sudden, overwhelming attacks isn't really possible - but what they can do is neutralize. Charm, suggestion, hypnotic pattern, and hold person are all very good picks. Silvery barbs is invaluable here to make sure it sticks. Getting fey touched for misty step and silvery barbs is strong, giving you free casts of both. Agonizing blast is essentially required if you want to make use of EB, I'm very partial to eldritch mind (especially if you're going to be using concentration spells a lot), and tomb of Levistus is, IMO, one of the best defensive abilities in the game (also let's you preserve concentration!!).

But, if you really want to go the burst damage route, it might be possible to do something with eldritch smite. I've never looked into to this too much because I don't think locks have enough slots to make it worth it, but it would let you drop a ton of damage on someone. In this case I would definitely not go higher than lock 5 - go into fighter, rogue, or even paladin to give you something besides a single round of abilities per SR.

[OldTrees1]

You could go Warlock 20 and still be a warlock assassin. It depends a bit on how you view the assassin. Here are some features I thought could be relevant.

Features that might not be relevant:
Skill Expert feat or Rogue 1 can give expertise in stealth.
Rogue 2 gives Cunning Action.

Invocations:
Agonizing Blast makes your blasts more lethal
Beguiling Influence gives Deception and Persuasion proficiencies
Bond of the Talisman (12th) lets you teleport back to an ally
Devil's Sight is mentioned in your opening post
Ghostly Gaze (7th) lets you see through solid objects
Mask of Many Faces lets you disguise yourself
Misty Visions lets you cast Silent Image at will. This is very useful.
Shroud of Shadow (15th) lets you cast Invisibility at will.

[Willowhelm]

a fearful assassin, as in a guy who singles out one of the opponents and does not stop doing stuff until the target is down..

This is an unusual way to describe an assassin. Normally an assassin brings to mind careful planning, stealth, professional killer, swift/sudden or subtle deaths etc.

Your description sounds more like someone in a rage who forgets everything else in the world except beating the person to death.

What’s the actual vibe you’re going for? Is collateral damage ok? Is subtlety or stealth part of the build? Nova potential?

Or is it just high single target DPR?

[Corran]

My take on it (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?611187-Mage-Cook-Archer-Spy-A-somewhat-unconventional-hexblade). (before Tashsa's)
Essentially you've got decent infiltration capabilities and a decent nova to take someone out and then take their place (since you are set on a dwarf you might want to find some room for mask of many faces and the actor feat). Combat wise it mostly acts as a ranged dpr (not the best by a mile but decent; pretty good whenever you can obtain sight advantage over your enemies), and you've got a good function against enemy glass cannons via your nova and some control over your initiative (which could include taking the prepared action in some cases). Plus whatever castery options you can squeeze in your spell list (I stripped spell combat options to what I thought as the bare essential cause I wanted to get as much utility I could get out of the spells, but one does not have to do this; in fact I think it's optimal to treat the character as a caster with some social trickery and a nova that can be useful when there is a good target for it, and thus lean more towards the powerful warlock spells, assuming this does not mess with the theme you've got in mind). A singleclass (hex)bladelock could do it too, but I like the 2 rogue levels because I appreciate mobility on warlocks, though it's fair to say that there are other ways to obtain mobility and dipping 2 levels away from the main class is not necesarily the best option (though it's pretty great if you can make use of expertise and proficiencies and at the same time you want to count on a fallback tactic like darkness+devil's sight+BB+hide when you are caught with your pants down, either when scouting or when snipping (devil's sight is nice, but the lack of a strong perception will hurt sometimes and personally I couldn't find room for expertise in perception and observant in this build). At that point taking a 3rd level in rogue (assassin) was easy cause the double nova has a lot of synergy with all the trickery the build can pull off. If you end up reading through my rambling of a thread (obviosuly skip the parts of no interest to you, eg race selection), I'd caution you not to palce too much importance on the ability score distribution and on the skill selection, because the valuation of the various ability checks are very table dependent.

ps: My math in nova calculation seem to be a bit off as well, though I might have been using some degree of freedom but it's been too long and I dont remember.

pps: Melee can be tricky for warlocks. It's even trickier for assassins. Range is your friend. If you want to focus on darkness/devil's sight or in anything similar to this (eg fog cloud/ blind fighting) in melee, I'd suggest a lot of rogues levels (preferably arcane tricksters), as both bonus action hiding and lots of sneak attack dice (for potential off turn attacks) can be pretty handy when pulling of such a trick.

[dehro]

the vibe... my guy was left for dead by a competitor... he holds a grudge and has made a warlock path to get his revenge on said competitor and his cronies... that's the end of the road..
as is, he will align himself with the rest of the party to build up resources and skills/powers for his endgame. I am basically going for a practical edgelord..in the sense that he's not big on the creepy warlock side of things, but still uses darkness and mental trickery/mobility to draw the targets in or port himself towards them do maximum damage ....and then either lock them in place and keep witling them down, or do his damage and swoop out, and then rinse and repeat.. (I am open to both options, in terms of battlefield strategy).. I don't figure that a repeat caster like a warlock would be ideally suited to going nova and shooting all his ammo in one round...hence why I was thinking of mobility and concealment, both defensively and offensively..
as for the actor feat... I am not really going to take on merc/assasin jobs.. I am still going to be in a party of dungeon crawlers and monster hunters.. for the most part.. I am trying to develop the character so that when the time comes, he has a set of tools and strategies to go home and clean it out, not necessarily with subterfuge... but without being otherwise a deadweight who is only situationally useful
I did however take the mask of many faces thing, because it is just too good and versatile not to for day to day purposes as well.

[Corran]

and I am very interested into looking to make the darkness theme work...but I can be swayed otherwise.
Ok, based on the rest of your post I will assume this at least partly means using darkness and devil's sight. This is best done in melee, cause if you do it from range you are not making the most of the potential defensive advantages it offers and also because ranged combat has fewer "wasted" turns than a melee approach (because of needing to close the distance sometimes; also, since you make more out of darkness defensively in melee, the action/resource cost is more easily justifiable; plus,devil's sight can often be enough on its own for advantage on ranged attacks anyway).

First thing to mention, darkness can last up to 10 minutes, so this allows some opportunities for precasting and for using it for more than one encounter. So try to make the best of that.

Now, in combat. Assuming a melee approach.

First thing to mention is that not being seen means you dont provoke OA's (beware though of creatures with special senses, as darkness is not good enough at fooling those; you need something like fog cloud or shadows of Moil for this, but darkness has some advantages over these spells so it's not a bad choice). Not provoking OA's is good for melee squishy builds, which most warlocks I've seen tend to be. Counting on darkness for mobility is nice, but we can do better (meaning that melee squishy builds have a use for it, but they dont make the most of it).

Second thing to mention, is that combining it with devil's sight means you get advantage on attacks. Advantage on attacks is good if you can turn accuracy into damage at a good rate. Lots of attacks (extra attack, maaaaybe PAM because the bonus action is precious and can be used for other things too, eg hiding) along with GWM (plus flat damage increases from something like lifedriker) is one way to do it, the other being one attack with lots of sneak attack dice on top of it, and if you can add BB on top of it it's even better (since it adds more dice and the secondary effect is certain to trigger against melee opponents too, since without the threat of OA's no one has to stay still, hence the enemy will have to move, hence more damage added on, thus making an even better use of your advantage on attacks).

Thirdly, incoming attacks against you will suffer disadvantage. Being attacked with disadvantage is only as good as your AC, and the better it gets the better this disadvantage against you becomes. The shield spell completes nicely this picture though warlocks cannot make it work without spell points or without some dipping. But this is conventional tanking and darkness is just one of the many ways to give enemies disadvantage. We can do better things defensively with it (ie bonus action hiding).

Forthly, bonus action hiding. You'll need either rogue or ranger levels for this, or you can be a goblin. Not being seen means you get to hide. Better doing that with your bonus action since getting to attack with advantage means that it's good to spend your actions attacking and hopefully for lots of damage if you make the most of the advantage. Theoretically this makes you untargettable as long as your stealth roll isn't beaten, but some DM dependance may lower or increase the value of such tactics (eg can enemies attempt to search simply by moving around the darkness in the hope of bumping into you, and if so, does numping into you means an automatic success, does it trigger an ability contest or something else; similarly, how often do enemies outside the darkness think of aiming shots at its center, and when they do, does that mean they attack you with disadvantage or does the attack target the first creature on its path -cause it's not easy to calculate the center if you only see half the diameter, so maybe they dont arc their shots correctly, but if that happens and what it means in terms of which square they target is most likely up to the DM). Etc. If you can utilize bonus action hiding to good effect, bumping stealth is a no brainer.

Finally, enemies can still provoke OA's from you, so if you combine this fact with hiding at the end of your turn, it's easy to have enemies trigger OA's from you at a regular basis. This can be worth it if your OA's hit hard (eg warcaster BB, or lots of rogue levels), but doing so reveals your position. Worth doing so most of the time IMO if you build your OA's strong enough (assuming you have allies caught up in the fighting, but if they are not getting attacked it's obviously best to drag it out by not revealing your position off turn), and this last approach will utilize every single advantage that you can get from darkness and devil's sighting in every single turn. Ie, attack with advantage on your turn, bonus action hide and move adjacent to any enemy, do an opportunity attack when said enemy gets to move on its turn -a certainty since neither you or your allies have any reason to stay still inside the darkness sine OA's dont apply, and then be decent at tanking any hit that might target you with disdvantage after your position is revealed. If you can change your voice convincingly enough (for some DM's a good deception roll might be enough, but if not there are options like alter self -assuming someone else is concentrating on darkness, actor and changeling), you might even attempt to create confusion when you reveal your position, which may or may not be enough to trick an enemy at attacking one of his allies).


My favourite way of doing this is with an arcane trickster rogue (with blindsense at higher levels, or who grabs either blind fighting or devil's sight early on), but many builds can pull off my described above apporach. Expertise in stealth and athletics (or acrobatics) to be hard to pinpoint and lock down, maybe also getting my hands on some low level teleportation too. Personally I find it a bit boring to have this as my main approach (it gets old quikcly), but I like having it as a fallback tactic cause it's pretty good at getting you out of trouble for one. With tasha's it's easy enough to get enough allies to profit from such tactics too, so lots of potential for synergies. Darkness (obscurment in general) shoots up in value against anything with sight based attacks (eg beholders and casters) and it's a good back up plan against heavy missile fire.




This is an unusual way to describe an assassin. Normally an assassin brings to mind careful planning, stealth, professional killer, swift/sudden or subtle deaths etc.
Yep, the OP's description made me think more of a vengeance paladin than an assassin.

[Greywander]

If you're looking for damage, you could start with an Eldritch Sniper build I came up with. It's basically a Genie warlock/Dragon sorcerer multiclass that uses Genie's Wrath to add elemental damage to EB, which in turn makes it qualify for the sorcerer's Elemental Affinity, adding more damage. Basically, the first EB beam to hit will deal about double damage (which is great for DPR, since your odds of hitting at least once go way up as you get more beams). You don't necessarily need the range-extending stuff, though having a 600/1200 foot range on your EB might fit your concept (and it might help Darkness + Devil's Sight from interfering with your party).

Other than that, there are a few things that would probably fit your concept fairly well. You want to be stealthy so you can get close enough to your target to take them out. This includes things like disguises, not just literal sneaking.

You'll also want something to keep your target from running away. Invocations like Grasp of Hadar or Lance of Lethargy can help, and there are also good control spells like Web or any Wall spell. Control can also be used to isolate your target so you can take them out without their friends interfering.

I'd recommend Pact of the Chain, as you can use your invisible flying familiar as a scout and spotter, helping you to find and identify your target before you approach and eliminate them. Your familiar can also follow them if they run away and lead you back to them.

All in all, I think it mostly comes down to how you play your character. You don't necessarily need to be a particular class or have a particular set of abilities (though that can help), you just need to roleplay as being an assassin. A barbarian or wizard can be an assassin if you roleplay them as one.

[Sorinth]

From your description I get more of a Terminator vibe then a sit back and blast away with EB. So Hexblade and eventually Relentless Hex seems like it would be a good fit. Spells like Armor of Agathys, and possibly Hellish Rebuke would fit the theme of an unstoppable march towards your target.

At level 5 for your 3 invocations would probably be Thirsting Blade, Devil's Sight, and I guess either Eldritch Smite or Improved Pact Weapon, though flavour wise Maddening Hex might also be good. Though optimization wise I think you are better off starting Fighter 1, for Heavy Armor and Con saves and then going Hexblade. Eventually taking Fighter up to 3/4 with the rest as Warlock.

[Bobthewizard]

I like echo knight on a hexblade. As Sorinth says, fighter 1 for heavy armor, then hexblade 5 for devil's sight, thirsting blade, and eldritch smite.

I usually recommend drow half-elf for this to get an extra casting of darkness and eventually combining elven accuracy, GWM, darkness/devil's sight for triple advantage on the +10 damage.

Echo knight gives you great mobility, an extra 'body' in combat, and an extra 3 attacks/LR from unleash incarnation. I'd stop at fighter 3 and progress Warlock as fast as possible. I think getting more invocations and class abilities is better than an extra ASI.

[Tawmis]

The character is a 5th level and I want to start him with 5 levels in warlock,... most likely a Duergar, but I am open to other dwarvish races (yes, I know, not necessarily the best warlock.. as I said, I am looking on how to make it work, not how to make the best possible combo).


Already some good ideas... but as for the Duergar Warlock...
Easy to explain - especially with Out of the Abyss.
Even if that's not the module you're playing, you could help the DM set that up if he ever wanted to.
You're a Duergar, who found a demonic patron, and was given a mission to examine the surface world (assuming the adventure isn't underground).
That said.
Keep in mind the limitation they have -
Sunlight Sensitivity. While in sunlight, the duergar has disadvantage on attack rolls, as well as on Wisdom (Perception) checks that rely on sight.

[Sorinth]

I like echo knight on a hexblade. As Sorinth says, fighter 1 for heavy armor, then hexblade 5 for devil's sight, thirsting blade, and eldritch smite.

I usually recommend drow half-elf for this to get an extra casting of darkness and eventually combining elven accuracy, GWM, darkness/devil's sight for triple advantage on the +10 damage.

Echo knight gives you great mobility, an extra 'body' in combat, and an extra 3 attacks/LR from unleash incarnation. I'd stop at fighter 3 and progress Warlock as fast as possible. I think getting more invocations and class abilities is better than an extra ASI.

Echo Knight on a Duergar is interesting since the Echo is the same size as you and occupies it's space. So you can cast Enlarge on yourself and then create your echo and your echo would be size large which could be interesting. And of course you can always flavour the echo as part of the magic you gained from being a warlock, and overall the teleporting meshes theme wise with Relentless Hex making them someone you can't run away away from.

[Keravath]

The suggestions look cool but personally, for an assassin, I would find it hard not to go with rogue and warlock. Being able to hit hard and do well in combat is cool but to me an assassin really wants to be able to infiltrate and do a lot of damage up front. If they are also good in melee then that is great.

Sneak attack only needs a finesse or ranged weapon.

So, I'd suggest Mask of Many Faces, Devil's sight, Thirsting Blade and Improved Pact weapon (or a magic bow if you come across one for your pact weapon and have a rapier or other finesse weapon as your hex weapon - focus on charisma as the primary stat). This might require 7 levels of warlock eventually. If you want to go more melee and are willing to put everything into one roll of the die then you could go with booming blade which opens up the choice of Pact and Invocations. However, I don't like booming blade in this application since it is NOT quiet.

Actor feat would also be useful depending on your starting stats and where it fits in (are you using the option from Tasha's to move your initial stat boosts around?). With a high charisma, actor, disguise self at will and expertise in persuasion or deception from rogue 1 - you would likely be able to be anyone you want to be.

Two attacks, one of them with sneak attack, darkness+devils sight to obtain advantage on that attack - and make sure that if the victim wakes they see nothing.

However, a build like this depends on what sort of role playing the group gets into. If all you ever do is combat and there is no opportunity to use the cool abilities provided by Actor and the other skills then it might feel more lackluster though I still think it would make a better assassin if not a fighter.

[Phhase]

Mask of many faces would be a great option. Would pretty much make you the spy from Tf2. I second the vote for Eldritch Smite, because while it may not be immediately obvious, you can eldritch smite with ranged weapons!

[TaiLiu]

I am set to play a warlock and for background reasons I would like him to build up to becoming something of a fearful assassin, as in a guy who singles out one of the opponents and does not stop doing stuff until the target is down.. without (eventually) multiclassing too egregiously.
If you wanna focus on using eldritch blast with invocation bonuses, it might be helpful to pick up the Quicken Spell metamagic, whether with a feat or with Sorcerer levels. You can use it to go nova.

[PhantomSoul]

If you wanna focus on using eldritch blast with invocation bonuses, it might be helpful to pick up the Quicken Spell metamagic, whether with a feat or with Sorcerer levels. You can use it to go nova.

It can make for a nice turn with the right invocations, but one thing to keep in mind is that it's just one use per long rest if you get Quickened Spell from the Metamagic Adept feat -- and, unless burning your limited spell slots, also only once per Long Rest if getting fewer than 4 levels in Sorcerer. That said, if the other Metamagic you get is something like Subtle Spell (which would normally get used outside of combat), that might be enough for it to feel worth it.

[Greywander]

I'd think a better use of Quickened Spell is to mix a leveled spell with EB. For example, restraining the enemy(ies) with Web, then blasting them while they're restrained and can't move.

One decision that I think needs to be made so we can narrow down our suggestions is whether the OP wants to get close and personal with a weapon, or blast from afar with EB. Right now we have a lot of competing advice that only applies to one or the other of these core builds.

[dehro]

I have been weighing those two options for a while and don't have a definitive answer.. playing around on dndbeyond I have tossed in tome pact for giggles and am coming up with something that does very little actual damage but has a lot of utility and still plays around with darkness/control... but it is ultimately inconclusive. I think ranged is probably my better chance, even with hexblade.. but I really am bad with the numbers side of making a build, and I understand that it is most likely that using the whole darkness shtick for a ranged character instead of going up close is probably not effective at all..so...still nothing defined

echo knight is a no no on account of not wanting to tap into CR content

[Witty Username]

2 levels in rogue may still be a good idea for extra skills, expertise, and cunning action, even if sneak attack doesn't work. Also a hexblade build using something like longbow could still get some use out of sneak attack.

[TaiLiu]

It can make for a nice turn with the right invocations, but one thing to keep in mind is that it's just one use per long rest if you get Quickened Spell from the Metamagic Adept feat -- and, unless burning your limited spell slots, also only once per Long Rest if getting fewer than 4 levels in Sorcerer. That said, if the other Metamagic you get is something like Subtle Spell (which would normally get used outside of combat), that might be enough for it to feel worth it.
I don't disagree! It's an expensive way to nova, but if you have advantage via darkness it's certainly worth it. If you have Sorcerer levels you can cannibalize your Warlock slots (which recover on a short rest) for sorcery points (which recover on a long rest).


I'd think a better use of Quickened Spell is to mix a leveled spell with EB. For example, restraining the enemy(ies) with Web, then blasting them while they're restrained and can't move.
That might be true! My assumption is that they'd have darkness active and so their concentration would already be taken.

[Keravath]

I have been weighing those two options for a while and don't have a definitive answer.. playing around on dndbeyond I have tossed in tome pact for giggles and am coming up with something that does very little actual damage but has a lot of utility and still plays around with darkness/control... but it is ultimately inconclusive. I think ranged is probably my better chance, even with hexblade.. but I really am bad with the numbers side of making a build, and I understand that it is most likely that using the whole darkness shtick for a ranged character instead of going up close is probably not effective at all..so...still nothing defined

echo knight is a no no on account of not wanting to tap into CR content

Darkness + devils sight works well for a ranged character since against most opponents you will have advantage to hit them while they have disadvantage to hit you since you can usually see without being seen. However, this conflicts with using hex. Hex takes a bit of flack for bonus action economy and possibly having better choices but the damage increase when you have multiple attacks with EB+AB becomes significant. In addition, it lasts at least an hour with concentration and so becomes an economical use of a spell slot across possibly several encounters.

In any case, I would go with whatever feels more assassin like to you if that is your goal. EB is perhaps a bit "flashy" depending on how you picture it and since it is a spell there is no way to cast EB stealthily. (Mechanically though, EB+AB is one of the simplest ways to get a decent damaging attack that scales and is better than the vanilla options for almost any class, especially as you get to tier 3. It also has a number of Invocations that will push or even pull opponents that give it quite a bit more utility - but although cool - it is up to you whether it fits the "assassin" feel you are looking for.

[Greywander]

Also a hexblade build using something like longbow could still get some use out of sneak attack.
But how would this compare with EB? That's the question. And it's why I typically don't recommend melee warlocks: you have to dump some serious investment into them just to compete with EB, let alone outdo it. Doesn't mean it can't be done, I just typically don't find it worth the investment.


That might be true! My assumption is that they'd have darkness active and so their concentration would already be taken.
In that case, they're probably casting Darkness as their Quickened Spell. Or, if Darkness is already up, then there's always non-concentration spells. If they're a sorcerer/warlock split, then they'll have access to things like Fireball and such; Rime's Binding Ice is another decent non-concentration control spell. My point is, unless you're a pure warlock with only two spell slots, you're generally going to have something better to cast than a cantrip, even EB.


However, this conflicts with using hex.
Hex is a trap. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JwINRY1eD7M) Darkness giving you advantage will probably give you a bigger DPR increase, and then there are spells like Hypnotic Pattern that are harder to quantify, but are definitely effective. And if having Hex up is stopping you from casting another concentration spell, then all you've done is handicap yourself. That doesn't mean it isn't useful, but it does require judicious use. It can make quite a deadly combo with a different spell that uses ability checks instead of saving throws.

Speaking of Darkness, you don't actually need Devil's Sight so long as your target is outside the Darkness, which is very likely if you're blasting from a distance. That's what makes it better than Fog Cloud: you can see out of it, but not into it. Darkness can potentially give your whole party advantage on their attacks, while also imposing disadvantage on enemy attacks, so long as your party is inside the Darkness while the enemies are outside of it. Now, that's an unlikely scenario, but what's not unlikely is having even just one other party member who can chill with you in the Darkness taking shots at the enemies outside of it. Since Darkness blocks sight, it also makes those inside untargetable by most spells, so savvy Darkness placement can be a huge benefit while fighting an enemy caster.

My point is, Darkness is a great spell, and will outperform Hex under most circumstances, even without Devil's Sight. With Devil's Sight, you don't have to worry as much about enemies coming after you, since they still can't see you but you can see them.

[Keravath]

But how would this compare with EB? That's the question. And it's why I typically don't recommend melee warlocks: you have to dump some serious investment into them just to compete with EB, let alone outdo it. Doesn't mean it can't be done, I just typically don't find it worth the investment.

In that case, they're probably casting Darkness as their Quickened Spell. Or, if Darkness is already up, then there's always non-concentration spells. If they're a sorcerer/warlock split, then they'll have access to things like Fireball and such; Rime's Binding Ice is another decent non-concentration control spell. My point is, unless you're a pure warlock with only two spell slots, you're generally going to have something better to cast than a cantrip, even EB.


Yep - melee warlocks take a lot of investment to do better than EB+AB but it can be done.



Hex is a trap. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JwINRY1eD7M) Darkness giving you advantage will probably give you a bigger DPR increase, and then there are spells like Hypnotic Pattern that are harder to quantify, but are definitely effective. And if having Hex up is stopping you from casting another concentration spell, then all you've done is handicap yourself. That doesn't mean it isn't useful, but it does require judicious use. It can make quite a deadly combo with a different spell that uses ability checks instead of saving throws.

Hex is situational yes. A trap no. It is a trap if the warlock decides that concentrating on it prevents them from taking more optimal actions. Other than that it is just an option. In a situation where you already have advantage due to other reasons then hex increases your damage at little cost.

How about a little math? Tier 2, +4 stat, +3 proficiency, AB - is hex or darkness better?

d10+4+d6 = 13 average
d10+4 = 9.5 average

AC12 (+7 to hit)
hex average damage = 0.8 * 13 = 10.4
darkness average damage = 0.96 * 9.5 = 9.12

AC15 (+7 to hit)
hex average damage = 0.65 * 13 = 8.45
darkness average damage = 0.8775 * 9.5 = 8.34

AC16 (+7 to hit)
hex average damage = 0.6*13 = 7.8
darkness average damage = 0.84 * 9.5 = 7.98

AC18 (+7 to hit)
hex average damage = 0.5 * 13 = 6.5
darkness average damage = 7.125

So, in these cases the turnover point in terms of damage is against targets with AC15/16 but a difference of 0.2 in average damage is negligible.

Hex imposes disadvantage on ability checks related to one stat so it comes in handy against creatures who grapple - where an opposed athletics/acrobatics check is required to escape. It also has other uses.

Darkness will give you disadvantage to be hit if others can see you and you can't see them which is a very useful feature - but less useful if you are standing far away and less likely to be targeted.

Darkness lasts 10 minutes and hex at least an hour (8 at level 3 and 24 at level 5). So whether or not hex or darkness is better is dependent on the circumstances.

Similarly, in late tier 2 into tier 3, spirit shroud will often result in greater damage being done than using shadow of moil to obtain advantage. However, shadow of moil is more defensive and gives others disadvantage to hit you as well as providing other benefits so again the choice is situational depending on the objectives in a particular fight.



Speaking of Darkness, you don't actually need Devil's Sight so long as your target is outside the Darkness, which is very likely if you're blasting from a distance. That's what makes it better than Fog Cloud: you can see out of it, but not into it. Darkness can potentially give your whole party advantage on their attacks, while also imposing disadvantage on enemy attacks, so long as your party is inside the Darkness while the enemies are outside of it. Now, that's an unlikely scenario, but what's not unlikely is having even just one other party member who can chill with you in the Darkness taking shots at the enemies outside of it. Since Darkness blocks sight, it also makes those inside untargetable by most spells, so savvy Darkness placement can be a huge benefit while fighting an enemy caster.

My point is, Darkness is a great spell, and will outperform Hex under most circumstances, even without Devil's Sight. With Devil's Sight, you don't have to worry as much about enemies coming after you, since they still can't see you but you can see them.

Whether or not you require Devils sight to see through magical darkness is completely a DM call and depends on how they run it. Some DMs use the "ink blot" version and others the "vanta black" version. So, I'd ask first before assuming you can see out of magical darkness.

[dehro]

my personal interpretation is that you do, and that's before I even consult with the DM.


A creature with Darkvision can't see through this darkness, and nonmagical light can't illuminate it. nowhere does it say you are exempt from the darkness because you cast the spell.

[OldTrees1]

my personal interpretation is that you do, and that's before I even consult with the DM.

That is a reasonable interpretation. Oh funny thing to notice, Devils Sight means you would see better in darkness than in dim light, except the warlock has Darkvision from being a dwarf.


nowhere does it say you are exempt from the darkness because you cast the spell.
That is not the ambiguity the other poster was referencing. However it is a moot point since your warlock will have Devil's Sight.

[nickl_2000]

It would be a fun build given the right table and DM, but wouldn't work on some tables.

Mountain Dwarf Charlatan Hexblade 5 with Pact of the Blade/Assassin 3

Point buy
8
14 (+2 dwarf)
14
12 (+1 ASI for skills)
12
18 (+2 dwarf, +1 ASI)

Skills:
Expertise: Deception +10, Thieves Tools
Prof: Insight, Investigation, Slight of Hand, Stealth

Tools:
Brewer's Supplies, Disguise Kit, Forgery Kit, Jeweler's Tools, Poisoner's Kit, Thieves' Tools


Breastplate and Shield (18 AC)

Spells:
Booming Blade, Friends, Minor Illusion, Charm Person, Darkness (mostly for escape), Hold Person, Invisibility, Major Image, Shield
Disguise Self and Minor Illusion at will.
Invocations: Pact of the Blade, Mask of Many Faces, Misty Visions

This character is less focused on sneaking, although (s)he has the ability to do so with proficiency and a breastplate. The focus on this character is to charm, disguise, and illusion their way into where they want to get. That can be done with disguises, deception, appearing as a tradesman (jewelers tools and brewers tools), illusion, or other social methods. With your social deception you should be able to get in a get surprise rounds since no one suspects you of being dangerous.

Once you are in whatever situation you can do solid damage with Booming Blade, sneak attack, and assassinate. Or you can use your poisoners kits do it in more subtle ways.


Now if you really want to lean into the social deception and skills you can also take 3 levels of College of Eloquence bard. (seen here https://ddb.ac/characters/72200952/20iQWD)

[BerzerkerUnit]

If it hasn’t been covered:

Assassin 3/Warlock 2 to start.

Assassinate (crit on surprised targets ) does work IIRC.

You start with some okay DPR, excellent infiltration if you take Mask of Many Faces invocation.

Scale to Rg3/Lock5, blade pact, crossbow master, Eldritch smite, thirsting blade and improved pact weapon.

Now sneak is back on the table, your surprised target takes 3attacks for possible 10d6+16d8.

[Kane0]

Okay, hear me out here:

Duergar Fathomless Warlock 5
Pact: Talisman
Invocations: Lance of Lethargy, Rebuke of the Talisman, your choice of [Agonizing Blast, One With Shadows, Mask of Many Faces, or Beguiling Influence]
Spells: Cause Fear, Silence, Invisibility, Misty Step, Sleet Storm, Summon [Fey, Shadowspawn or Undead]

Your gimmick is movement, but not the usual Repelling Blast 'get away from me'. Instead, you pair up Lance of Lethargy with your Tentacle to reduce your target's speed by 20', then on top of that halve it if you really want to using Sleet Storm. You can still do the repelling thing using your Talisman reaction (plus it does a bit of damage as well for good measure) which also helps you pass the odd check that you just barely fail on. You can use a Summon spell when you're in need of support, and Silence an amazing tool to have in your back pocket. Access to fear, teleporting and invisibility just round out your capabilities.
Your advantage against poison, charms and illusions which make for some really solid defensive measures too, so Duergar isn't all that bad a pick. The embiggening probably won't be all that useful though.

[TaiLiu]

My point is, unless you're a pure warlock with only two spell slots, you're generally going to have something better to cast than a cantrip, even EB.
That seems reasonable.