How would a NG character react to this? (Descent into Avernus SPOILERS)

[Sir-Carlos]

NO spoilers for the later campaign please.



We were fighting our way through the Cellar of the Vanthampurs, intent on saving Thavius Kreeg. We found him uttering prayers or incantations in front of a strange magic shield. He didn’t look like a prisoner, and that raised our suspicion. Also, we had learned earlier that Thavius was under suspicion of being a traitor. Our DM described Thavius shadow looking like a small winged devil. We asked Thavius why that was that way. He said he had been cursed.

Okay, that seems like a half-reasonable explanation. Let’s get out of here! Our Cleric takes the shield (we had learned before that the shield was incredibly dangerous), but Thavius demands it to be handed to him. Our cleric refuses and says that we should debate that after we got out of the dungeon. But Thavius insists. In fact, he refused to leave as long as he didn’t have the shield. My NG barbarian told him that the shield won’t leave his sight for one second and that he could trust us. We should leave, before more cultist arrive! But Thavius didn’t budge. Reja stepped in and commanded our cleric to hand the shield over. My Barbarian said that maybe Thavius was under some kind of mind-control? And offered to carry Thavius out of the dungeon. Then Thavius cried for help, alarming all the remaining cultists.

A fight ensued. We barely won, all the while Thavius attacked our warlock who was guarding him. Reja didn’t help at all and just made sure the warlock wouldn’t retaliate against Thavius. We got out. But Thavius hasn’t changed and doesn’t show any signs of mind-control. Reja defends him, but he is a pain in the a**.

How would my NG Barbarian react to that? as a player, I think Thavius is an a-hole and IF someone is brainwashed; it is probably Reja. But would that align with being NG? I mean, he tried to kill my PCs friends, but being NG means to give him the benefit of the doubt, right?

[JackPhoenix]

Ignore NG. Or rather, don't focus solely on that. Your character's personality is more than just alignment. Alignment describe general behavioral tendencies, it's not prescriptive, and it's not supposed to be followed all the time.

[qube]

(disclaimer, I played DiA pre corona; but as I don't remeber those names, so I can't really spoil anything for your)


Ignore NGI will have to agree with this - as there are too many variables.

From what you describe, Thadius is unreasonable. Unless he can prove he's actually cursed - you're not going give a potential devil or demon or whatever a magical artifact. Whatever your alignment - you're not that dumb or suicidal. He can get along with the program or get knocked out & be carried by the party. He's getting saved. For his own good.

I have no clue who Reja is, but unless she's the previous owner of the shield, she's got no business telling the party what to do with party loot.

If you want an analogy, you don't know if you're in a situation akin to
a kid who wants his stuffed toy
a drug addict who wants his fix
an evil guy who wants the artifact
A NG would give the kid the toy, have problems giving drugs to an addict, and would absolutely not help the evil guy.

It's up to you, not your alignment, what situation you think is more probbably (or maybe safest)

[Unoriginal]

NO spoilers for the later campaign please.



We were fighting our way through the Cellar of the Vanthampurs, intent on saving Thavius Kreeg. We found him uttering prayers or incantations in front of a strange magic shield. He didn’t look like a prisoner, and that raised our suspicion. Also, we had learned earlier that Thavius was under suspicion of being a traitor. Our DM described Thavius shadow looking like a small winged devil. We asked Thavius why that was that way. He said he had been cursed.

Okay, that seems like a half-reasonable explanation. Let’s get out of here! Our Cleric takes the shield (we had learned before that the shield was incredibly dangerous), but Thavius demands it to be handed to him. Our cleric refuses and says that we should debate that after we got out of the dungeon. But Thavius insists. In fact, he refused to leave as long as he didn’t have the shield. My NG barbarian told him that the shield won’t leave his sight for one second and that he could trust us. We should leave, before more cultist arrive! But Thavius didn’t budge. Reja stepped in and commanded our cleric to hand the shield over. My Barbarian said that maybe Thavius was under some kind of mind-control? And offered to carry Thavius out of the dungeon. Then Thavius cried for help, alarming all the remaining cultists.

A fight ensued. We barely won, all the while Thavius attacked our warlock who was guarding him. Reja didn’t help at all and just made sure the warlock wouldn’t retaliate against Thavius. We got out. But Thavius hasn’t changed and doesn’t show any signs of mind-control. Reja defends him, but he is a pain in the a**.

How would my NG Barbarian react to that? as a player, I think Thavius is an a-hole and IF someone is brainwashed; it is probably Reja. But would that align with being NG? I mean, he tried to kill my PCs friends, but being NG means to give him the benefit of the doubt, right?

As the others have said, this isn't a situation where the alignment is relevant.

Your DM had Thavius:

-Raise the alarm so that cultists try to kill the party

-Attempt to murder the warlock personally

And your DM had Reja help him.

Soooo.... they're clearly antagonists at the moment. If you think one or both are mind-controlled or not in control of their acts, then logically you have to find someone who can verify if it's the case and possibly cure it.

If they are not, well, how does your character usually deal with people who tried to get your teammates killed by cultists, tried to kill them personally, or helped someone who was trying to kill them personally?

[OldTrees1]

NO spoilers for the later campaign please.

How would my NG Barbarian react to that?

Ignore NG. Ignore Barbarian. What is your character's name? Who are they? What do they know about the situation? What confuses them about the situation? What do they care about?

I can tell you what a NE green hag witch nicknamed Granny did. However I can't tell you how <characterNameHere> would react. Determining how <characterNameHere> would react to confusing circumstances will be common in this campaign.



Despite that non answer being a more beneficial answer than directly answering your question. Here is a direct answer too.
It is not morally obligatory for a NG character to given infinite benefit of the doubt (and being NG does not mean they have to be a perfect paragon of morality). It is okay to have doubts and to follow up on those doubts. It sounds like you have doubts. I had doubts. Granny had doubts. It sounded like <characterNameHere> had doubts. Does <characterNameHere> have doubts? What are those doubts? How would they act in light of those doubts (probably not the same way Granny did)?

[Dr.Samurai]

How would my NG Barbarian react to that? as a player, I think Thavius is an a-hole and IF someone is brainwashed; it is probably Reja. But would that align with being NG? I mean, he tried to kill my PCs friends, but being NG means to give him the benefit of the doubt, right?
I think the party did give the benefit of the doubt already.

The question now is how likely does your character think this person is under mind control, and how willing would he be to tolerate this type of interference (the type that can have lethal consequences for you and your party).

I would not overthink the alignment issue here, as others have said. Instead, check your Personality, Ideal, Bond, and Flaw and maybe those can help suggest what your character would think about this situation.

[Keravath]

From the circumstances, I'd say the party should have beat Thavius unconscious as soon as he started attacking the party.

Thavius raised an alarm that intentionally attracted the cultists. Consider the circumstances under which this makes sense. Thavius wants the shield, the party won't give it to him. Raising the alarm only makes sense if (a) he expects the cultists to be able to defeat or weaken the party and (b) the cultists will let him keep the shield when the party would not.

Conclusion? Thavius is aligned with the cultists either willingly or not. Their actions really don't make sense otherwise since if the cultists are able to defeat the party then they will likely also defeat Thavius. So he is either completely irrational or secretly aligned with the cultists.

Next, Thavius' shadow has a fiendish appearance. This could be because he is cursed - that is what he says. However, in game, wouldn't the characters also suspect that maybe it is because Thavius isn't as he appears? Perhaps he is a fiend himself or is helping a fiendish side. I don't know much about the plot line of DiA but it does involve fiendish creatures - I also don't know how much the characters are aware of but in the context of the campaign, an indication of some sort of fiendish influence is probably a red flag.

Add this to the actions raising the alarm to obtain the shield and I think it becomes pretty clear that Thavius is most likely a bad guy pretending to be a good one. If the party wants to err on the side of caution they can use non-lethal damage on the last hit that makes him unconscious and carry him out of the dungeon until you can reach a cleric or other person who can decide if they are cursed or just in league with the opponents.

As for Reja ... is he another NPC? How trustworthy are they? From the sound of it Reja and Thavius might both be aligned with the cult and assigned to recover the shield by a 3rd party and are just using the PCs as dupes to perform the heavy lifting.

Interpreting all this is independent of alignment. There is some room for doubt but it seems pretty clear that Thavius is not really an ally and has one goal which is to take charge of the shield. He also actively attacked a party member - this is not the action of a friend. Many parties would have killed Thavius as soon as they started attacking the party since they would interpret that as a clear sign of hostility and opposition. Some would knock him unconscious and take him as a prisoner. I don't think I have met a party yet that would trust him to walk around without being tied up.

[qube]

@OP
what's the personality trait of your barbarian?

[Kish]

How would my NG Barbarian react to that? as a player, I think Thavius is an a-hole and IF someone is brainwashed; it is probably Reja. But would that align with being NG? I mean, he tried to kill my PCs friends, but being NG means to give him the benefit of the doubt, right?
I'm not going to say "the alignment system sucks." I am, in fact, going to say: the alignment system is vastly more nuanced than its detractors give it credit for. And part of that, is that the Neutral Good moral range has room in it for one-third of all the real world's "good person" perspectives.

Which means only you can answer that for your character. Does he believe Thavius deserves to die, or that protecting others is more important? Or does he believe that showing mercy is more important (note, as an adventurer, "willing to kill" is kind of a necessary feature) or that the risk of killing a mind-control victim is unacceptable?

[Unoriginal]

I have no clue who Reja is, but unless she's the previous owner of the shield, she's got no business telling the party what to do with party loot.



As for Reja ... is he another NPC? How trustworthy are they? From the sound of it Reja and Thavius might both be aligned with the cult and assigned to recover the shield by a 3rd party and are just using the PCs as dupes to perform the heavy lifting.

Reja is a NPC the PCs meet earlier in the chapter and who agreed to adventure with them to figure out what happened to her home city. It's important to note that Thavius is her liege, as the theocratic leader of said home city.

[5eNeedsDarksun]

I'm inclined to to lean towards the 'beat him unconscious as necessary' response, which I think does play to your alignment, as opposed to killing him. That said, it sounds like you were already in a tough fight that might not have gone your way if you had to fight Thavius and potentially Reja as well.
These sorts of difficult decisions are why I really liked DiA. The mod is designed to put players into situations like this, so it sounds like your DM is doing a good job. Good luck.

[Sigreid]

Sounds to me like you're suspicious. Roll with that.

[Demonslayer666]

"Thavius attacked our warlock".

This would be enough for me to declare him an enemy regardless of my alignment. He is out to do the party harm and not to be trusted with anything, especially a powerful evil shield. Reja siding with him puts her in the same boat.

The actions you would take depend on your personality. Barbarians tend to carry the trope of being rash and impulsive and shy away from composed thoughtful rationalization. "Hulk smash!" comes to mind.

If the warlock and you were close friends, I'd be pretty mad at Thavius and probably not wait for an explanation.

If Reja was a great traveling companion, I'd be rather torn, and probably demand an explanation.

[da newt]

What would IRL you do in this situation? Most folks think of themselves as pretty good people, which in my mind roughly equates to NG.

With that said, I agree with all the others who have said alignment does not dictate actions, it's just a descriptor of your overall morality in general. But just like real folks, PCs don't always react to everything in exactly the same way.

[DigoDragon]

I mean, he tried to kill my PCs friends, but being NG means to give him the benefit of the doubt, right?

You're Neutral Good, not Neutral Doormat. XD

If someone actually attempted to harm you or your friends, then all bets are off. If I were in this position, I would have left the dude behind. You aren't responsible for his decisions in any alignment, and since he tried to kill your friends before, the "greatest good" you can do here is leave the dungeon with your party and the shield.